Some SH4 Questions

[Phantom II]

So, after owning the game for 3 years, I've finally decided to install it (along with UBoat Missions) and give it another go. On top of this I've also installed RFB.

First off, the crew management is an absolute piece of crap. I miss the idea of having a crew quarters to station crew members that weren't in use, so that when I tell someone to man the deck gun, instead of repeating "Yes Sir" 5 times, and not actually manning it as in SH4, it just took a bunch of guys out of your quarters and assigned them to your deck gun. And then there is the matter of your watch crew not actually coming off station when the boat submerges, leaving them vulnerable to depth charge attacks. Seriously, how did this get through the beta tests? They DID test it, right?

And then, all this crew management wouldn't be such a pain in the arse if it weren't for the crappy drag and drop. At least in SH3, you could select a compartment, and then right click on all the crew members you want to go to that compartment. How come they took it out?

And how come, when I switch engine speed to Flank, the XO responds with "Yes Sir, all ahead flank, Yes Sir" Freaking too many Yes Sirs, and heaven forbids that they are unable to comply, in which case they just keep repeating Yes Sir until they CAN comply. What the hell?

Also, I got a massive frame rate hit when I installed RFB, I understand that this is all due to the environment mods and stuff, is there any way to turn it off though, and just keep the realism upgrades? Failing that, is there anything else I can do to increase my performance?


Almost forgot, another thing, how come determining speed is such a massive pain in the butt? I seem to recall it being pretty straightforward in SH3, why change something that wasn't broken?


Cheers in advance people :)

Phantom

[RFB Team]

No, RFB is a one-shot deal. There's no real practical way to pull out the environmental upgrades without messing with the rest of the mod. See, the way the AI interacts with the player is interlinked with the environment mods that are a part of RFB.

As for the crew management stuff, that's why there are empty slots below decks for the watch crew. That's the only way to keep the watch crew from being unrealistically injured when the boat is submerged. It's explained in more detail in the manual.

[Phantom II]

No, RFB is a one-shot deal. There's no real practical way to pull out the environmental upgrades without messing with the rest of the mod. See, the way the AI interacts with the player is interlinked with the environment mods that are a part of RFB.

As for the crew management stuff, that's why there are empty slots below decks for the watch crew. That's the only way to keep the watch crew from being unrealistically injured when the boat is submerged. It's explained in more detail in the manual.


Hmm okay, but isn't there an easier way to move your crew than having to drag and drop each individual crew member (All 15 of them) every time you go below?

Aaand, as far as range estimations go on your targets, how come its impossible to get your Sonarman to give you an accurate range estimation? I keep having to do it manually through the hydrophone (because I keep getting ridiculous ranges), I mean active sonar should effectively eliminate the need for the Stadimeter range estimation.

And after finally calculating the range, I keep getting stupid speed estimations as well. For example, in the torpedo tutorial, It keeps estimating the cruiser's speed to be around 6-7 knots, when in reality its closer to 11 knots. Does this mean I'm going to have to do each calculation manually on paper using trig, since it'll be far more accurate?

[RFB Team]

Hmm okay, but isn't there an easier way to move your crew than having to drag and drop each individual crew member (All 15 of them) every time you go below?

Nope

[Phantom II]

Can anyone explain the inconsistency I'm getting with range estimation? When I use the stadimeter in the tutorial I get the target at ~800yds, but when I ping it with sonar it gives me ~1400yds. Whats up with that? It just seems like my speed calculation is really low since the computer estimates it at ~6-7kts :/ Its really frustrating

[Phantom II]

Gah this is pathetic. When I start a combat patrol on my career (using RFB), if I'm in Pearl and I go to the bridge, the game just CTDs

I'm going back to SH3, which is pretty sad because I love the Pacific Theatre of Operations and the Fleet Boats :(

[Jan Kyster]

:hmmm: are you sure your RFB isn't messed up somehow?


And before quitting SH IV, you do know TMO includes some Fleet Boats too... :D

[BillBam]

Why is it necessary to run a SuperMod? Why not just run stock with GFO and add some individual small mod to suit your taste. You can add RSRD for campaign layers or the natural sinking mod if you like that over quick explosive endings.

[rmr1701]

Chill out man, it's a GAME. Try it vanilla, try a different mod, take it for what it is, a game. I haven't had a sub sim since Silent Service on an Apple 2c and while it would be great if it looked like a movie all the time and my computer had the capabilities of a Kray super computer and the devs made a perfect piece of software and etc, etc, etc, etc, it's still a game and I'm having fun with it. :D

[Phantom II]

I'm not complaining about RFB, I think its great. What I am annoyed about is the fact that there are still heaps of bugs in the base game, and none of them have been fixed despite the game having been out for 3 years now, and with the release of SH5 (which I hear is terrible) I doubt they'll ever fix them -_-

I tried going back to SH3, but 1024x768 stretched on a 1920x1080 monitor = not nice.

[TH0R]

After reading your posts here I came to the following conclusions:

#1 - your RFB install is busted (judging by the many 'Sir yes Sir' you keep hearing)

#2 - the crew management in RFB is one of the best and most realistic. Yes it does need some hand input, but that is needed due to hard coded features.

In short - you don't need to drag the guys over every time you submerge. Dragging two guys (those from the active watch) will be enough to put them to man the dive planes in the control room - this was done because in stock you could either have crew on dive planes or no crew on them. RFB simulates it so that when on surface you don't see people manning the dive planes as it is - pointless.

As for the rest of the watch crew and Hogan's Alley - do this only when you're expecting to be DC-ed. It is like rigging for a DC attack. Adds to realism, at least for me. ;)

Also - I do assume that you do use Battle Stations Command? This is one of the major advantages of SH4 over SH3.

#3 - if by moving the guys below manually you refer to the 'submersible watch crew' bug, then my advice to you is to stop alt-tabing out of the game while playing. This is a known bug which is present even in SH5 and can not be fixed. A lot of things can go wrong if you alt-tab out of the game while on patrol so it is best not to do it.

#4 - as for the stadimeter giving you different ranges than the sonar - that is how it is supposed to be. You need to get 5-6 range estimations by sonar and take a middle value to get the accurate range to target. Is is an approximation. Sonar isn't at all dead on accurate. As for the stadimeter - it was highly inaccurate in real life, the way we have it in the game is actually unreal. This comes from the wrong mast hight data in the real ship recognition manuals.


In short, you should do some more reading and inform your self before criticising the RFB mod. I know I've had the similar attitude in the beginning. In the end, I love RFB. It has by far the best Enviroment mod and ship sinking physics are notch above other supermods IMO. RFB isn't with out its flaws, but it is closest to my version of what simulation is. Maybe TMO will suit your needs better.

[McHibbins]

Very good points THOR:up: Exactly my opinion

[Jan Kyster]

...I tried going back to SH3, but 1024x768 stretched on a 1920x1080 monitor = not nice.Just a sidenote... use the HiRes Fix in SH3 :up: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1092

[Ducimus]

Looking over the posts, i don't think he *really* wanted to play this game anyway. Maybe even borderline trolling. Meh.

[Phantom II]

Are you kidding? I love Silent Hunter (I own retail copies of SH1, which I got on release, right thru to SH4, on top of that I own Steam copies of 3 and 4 as well), its just a shame that the great SH3 is starting to show its age with the whole low-resolution thing.

And yeah, it turns out my SH4 was a little bit bugged, it seems to be running better now. I did my first war patrol in SH4 last night with RFB and I even managed to sink a freighter, it was a real blast. Yes, the target aquisition is more difficult now, but at least its not bugged :/ Messing around with RFB caused me to have some inconsistent data on ship heights, which explains why it was damn near impossible to estimate ship speeds. But its all sorted now :)

After reading your posts here I came to the following conclusions:

#1 - your RFB install is busted (judging by the many 'Sir yes Sir' you keep hearing)


Also - I do assume that you do use Battle Stations Command? This is one of the major advantages of SH4 over SH3.

#3 - if by moving the guys below manually you refer to the 'submersible watch crew' bug, then my advice to you is to stop alt-tabing out of the game while playing. This is a known bug which is present even in SH5 and can not be fixed. A lot of things can go wrong if you alt-tab out of the game while on patrol so it is best not to do it.


In short, you should do some more reading and inform your self before criticising the RFB mod. I know I've had the similar attitude in the beginning. In the end, I love RFB. It has by far the best Enviroment mod and ship sinking physics are notch above other supermods IMO. RFB isn't with out its flaws, but it is closest to my version of what simulation is. Maybe TMO will suit your needs better.

#1 Yep, it turns out that that was the case.

What does the Battlestation command do exactly? As far as I can tell it just 'activates' all your resting crew members.

#3 Same as #1

And just so we're clear here, my criticisms wasn't with RFB, I think its great, its more the base game that appears weaker in some respects to SH3 (I apologise if it seemed like I was bagging RFB).


On a slightly different topic: Has anyone been able to get SH3 to run on widescreen without the stretching? I've tried some of the different high-res fixes, but since the GUI and everything else (periscopes, binoculars) is all done in 1024, the improvements have been rather limited. I suppose if all else fails I could always whip out my old 17" 4:3 LCD :)

[Phantom II]

Hey agian everyone, sorry if it seems like I'm ranting.

I'm still having some problems with my SH4. I'm running all my mods through JSGME, I've installed fresh versions of all the mods I'm running, and my load order is as follows:

RFB_2.0
RFB_2.0_Patch1
RSRDC_RFB_V575
RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1

Basically what happens, is whenever I go to Bridge view while in or near a populated port, the game freezes for a second, and then crashes. When running the game in vanilla, it only does the short freeze, and then renders the scene. Is it possible that all the extra content in the ports is killing my system? Or is it a conflict between the mods I'm running (And did I install all the right patches for the respective mods?)

Thanks for your patience with a total mod noob guys :)

[Ducimus]

I own Steam copies of 3 and 4

That might explain some of your difficulty with SH4. I can't say for sure, but it seems like steam copies tend to have issues for some reason.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=167206

whenever I go to Bridge view while in or near a populated port, the game freezes for a second, and then crashes. When running the game in vanilla, it only does the short freeze, and then renders the scene. Is it possible that all the extra content in the ports is killing my system? Or is it a conflict between the mods I'm running (And did I install all the right patches for the respective mods?)

The mod order looks correct to me. As to freezes, not sure what to tell you there except to try running the standalone version of RSRD, and RFB by itself and see which one is causing the freeze for you. Process of elimniation kind of thing. Aside from that, there is the usual, "make sure your using the latest drivers" mantra. Although that isn't neccesarily true unless your drivers are like a year old or something.

[Phantom II]

That might explain some of your difficulty with SH4. I can't say for sure, but it seems like steam copies tend to have issues for some reason.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=167206



The mod order looks correct to me. As to freezes, not sure what to tell you there except to try running the standalone version of RSRD, and RFB by itself and see which one is causing the freeze for you. Process of elimniation kind of thing. Aside from that, there is the usual, "make sure your using the latest drivers" mantra. Although that isn't neccesarily true unless your drivers are like a year old or something.

Didn't occur to me to update my drivers -_-

Reason I bought the Steam version is partly because my DVD crapped out, and partly because its difficult to find the U-Boat Missions add-on in my part of the world, and the Steam version of the U-Boat add-on is incompatible with the Retail vanilla game, so I essentially had to buy the game twice.

[Ducimus]

it just occured to me,

Disable environment effects in the graphics menu.

Two reasons.
1.) There's a rendering bug and you'll get a transparent watch crew in foggy conditions.

2.) Some settings in environmental mods (ones in included in RFB im sure), can cause really bad lag or frame rate loss with this option enabled.

Leave volumetric fog enabled, but get rid of environmental effects. The only thing you'll miss is the cloud shadows and misty particle effects when its foggy that are added in addition to the normal fog rendering.

[Phantom II]

Hmmm, I disabled RSRD and ran the game, which gave me some really weird graphical glitches (missing textures, all kinds of crap), then I disabled all the mods and reinstalled RFB 2.0 and the patch, and it seems to work, even with Environmental Effects.

So it seems theres a correlation between the crashes and RSRDC :/ Anyone got any clues?

Cheers

[Ducimus]

Check all the readme's for any important info, if you don't find anything, take it up to the RFB thread (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=159709) first, since RFB is meant to be run in tandem with RSRD. If that doesnt work, check the RSRD thread. (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=123467)

[Phantom II]

Will do. Thanks

[TH0R]

A side note (I have some Steam games, but not the SH4). From my time spent on these forums - seems that turning automatic updates off for SH4 in Steam makes a whole lot of difference. Have you disabled them?

It might be the requirement to mod the game in the first place I don't know, just something I read on these forums...

[Phantom II]

Hey TH0R could you please post a list of all the files in your JSGME? Just for me to use as a benchmark of a working configuration.

Thanks.

[Phantom II]

So here's something curious. I uninstalled all my mods, and reinstalled RFB2.0 on its own, and the quality seems to deteriorate each time I load the game. First time, I started up a new career, no problems, I go up to the bridge in Pearl and everything renders fine, I pan the camera around for a bit, no issues, go underwater, no problems, nice underwater scene.

So then I quit back to the main menu, fired up a new career (exact same as before). The bridge view loads okay, but when I switch to free cam, if I have the camera pointing in certain angles in certain locations, the entire screen turns a bright green, whats more, when I take the camera under water, the screen goes black, and in some cases, it would just crash.

I did some extensive testing on SH4 vanilla and encountered none of these issues. :/

[Hylander_1314]

Sounds like graphics rendering issues. What are your system specs?

motherboard & cpu

ammount of ram

video card(s) sli or crossfire (if applicable) and current drivers and any video enhancement software you might be using like nHancer for Nvidia cards or ATI tool for ATI cards.

OS and version.

It may help to sort out your issues.

But if it worked fine on a clean boot up then progressively gets worse, it sounds like it may be driver related or something like that. If you've got the latest drivers for your video card(s) try going back to an older version to see if it helps.

It used to drive me madd in the older days. To play EAW, and Red Baron 3D I had to use one set of drivers. If I wanted to play Rowan's Battle of Britain, I had to load a different set of drivers as the video was all messed up otherwise. Same thing for the other 2 games. It was just the way the driver versions renderred the video.

[TH0R]

Hey TH0R could you please post a list of all the files in your JSGME? Just for me to use as a benchmark of a working configuration.

Thanks.

Sure thing:

RFB2.0
RFB_2.0_Patch_06April2010 (beta patch, not released to public)
RFB_WDM_17Jan09
RSRDC_RFB_V575
RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1
RSRDC_V5xx_AircraftSoundFix
RSRDC_GreenDragons_GatorNavy
SH4_EXMSG_1 (modified RSRDC file with extra messages mod)
Nav Map Make-Over (without two files that are not compatible with RSRDC)
Torpedo Speed Setting Text Fix
Merchant Skinpack v2 RFB

Mods in Bold are the ones you should benchmark with.

[Phantom II]

System Specs are as follows

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E7500 running at stock (2.93GHz)
Motherboard: Gigabyte G31M-ES2L
RAM: Kingston 4GB (I'm FAIRLY certain its DDR2 1066)
Graphics Card: Sapphire ATI Radeon 4870 X2
Graphics Drivers are the latest ones from ATI (10-3_vista64_win7_64_dd_ccc_wdm_enu)
OS: Windows Vista Business Edition (64-bit)

Not using any other enchancement software other than the Catalyst Control Center which is included with the ATI drivers.

I'll try installing some old drivers to see what it does :/

[McHibbins]

RFB_WDM_17Jan09 ?

May u help me please ?

[commandosolo2009]

Can anyone explain the inconsistency I'm getting with range estimation? When I use the stadimeter in the tutorial I get the target at ~800yds, but when I ping it with sonar it gives me ~1400yds. Whats up with that? It just seems like my speed calculation is really low since the computer estimates it at ~6-7kts :/ Its really frustrating

I think light travels faster than sound, so as you perceive the 800 yds image, head to the sonar/ or ask the SO, there is latency and probably the target moved 500 yds?? maybe the SO isnt that experienced..


I dont use sonar except to estimate range when I'm submerged without periscope UP...

Besides, the stadimeter can give more accurate reading as light travels faster than sound..:haha::haha::haha::D:rock::03:

[commandosolo2009]

maybe when you are using the stadimeter you dont align the image sealine with actual mast (mast = the highest pole(s)on the ship, not the flag. try some work with the stadimeter in conjunction with the sonar on static targets
( disabled vessels, homeport vicinity ships) they are usually parked and can assist you with your testing.

[Diopos]

Sound travels at~1400-1500 m/sec in sea water (and varies with temperature, pressure (depth) and salinity). In the typical "engagment" ranges (less than say 4000 m) the lag between optical and accoustic observations wouldn't exceed 3 seconds.
Anyway the problem is that the game does not incorporate actual acoustics (I think). In the SH universe sound propagates instantly!!!!

commandosolo2009 is probably right

[Phantom II]

So I've installed some older drivers, still having the same issues (Just running RFB2.0) and none whatsoever using vanilla SH4. Call my crazy but I'd some SOMETHING in RFB is causing it.

[dezertflyr]

It may be best to just Quit to Windows and restart SH4 when starting new career(s) :hmmm:

[Admiral8Q]

I have a Saphire HD 3850 graphics card and I find that if I update the drivers and Catalyst Control for it, a lot of things screw up. I even wrote on my CD case for the installation, "Do not upgrade drivers or catalyst".

[Phantom II]

I have a Saphire HD 3850 graphics card and I find that if I update the drivers and Catalyst Control for it, a lot of things screw up. I even wrote on my CD case for the installation, "Do not upgrade drivers or catalyst".

So what sort of drivers are you using now?

[Admiral8Q]

So what sort of drivers are you using now?
The ones that come off the CD.

[commandosolo2009]

I have a Saphire HD 3850 graphics card and I find that if I update the drivers and Catalyst Control for it, a lot of things screw up. I even wrote on my CD case for the installation, "Do not upgrade drivers or catalyst".


Sometimes ATi driver overwrites to the stock driver without actually replacing it. I experienced this with elder cards...

Its good to know which driver version dont cause issues with hardware or conflicts..

In my makeshift system restore DVD, I included the working, flawless version of Catalyst..

IMHO, Catalyst driver is not the best, and ATi cards generally are flawn with issues related to the drivers..

Nvidia, on the other hand, has less issues as most game devs include an optimisation tweak on the DVD...

[G2B]

Did you set up SH4 in its own folder, c/whatever/ubi or did it install to default location?

[Phantom II]

Its just installed in my default Steam location, which is D:\Steam\steamapps\common\silent hunter wolves of the pacific\

[Jan Kyster]

Just a sidenote reg. ATI... running 4870x2 here and always update to newest driver. No issues what so ever - problem(s) must be somewhere else...

Have a nice day! :salute:

[Phantom II]

Hmm still not luck. Fiddled around with the drivers, tried a bunch of different ones. Got Steam to do some file integrity checks, it just keeps crashing when I go onto the bridge while in port when using RFB. Vanilla still works fine.

I SUPPOSE I could play vanilla, but reading about RFB + RSRDC, I dunno, it just sounds tons better and more complete in terms of a fleet boat experience.

[TH0R]

RFB_WDM_17Jan09 ?

May u help me please ?


WDM stands for Warship Damage Model, as current RFB has only the new sinking model applied to Merchant ships and DD-s. So this is a WDM in testing for the final release. Although it features only one ship so far, the Agano, you you're not missing much. ;)

[McHibbins]

Hm...ok, thx. But then again with too many hitpoints :O:

[Hylander_1314]

PhantomII, I would suggest posting your video issue in the RFB thread in the SH4 Workshops forum. It is looking to be more than just a basic video issue. I would bet someone there will be able to help get it sorted out. I haven't used RFB for some time now due to time constraints and it being more demanding. As it sounds like something isn't meshing right when you add the RFB mod to your base game.