DRM a slightly different viewpoint

[captainprid]

Ok, I know a lot of guy's don't like UBI's new digital rights management (DRM) and I can fully understand that. However after a lot of thought, I can also understand Ubi's point of view. SHV is the first game to use full DRM, consequently, it's a new thing and therefore represents change. We have all for a long time been used to the status-quo; you buy a game, you install it, you play it- as long as your PC is up to it, you require nothing further. Howvere, thanks to our old friend TPB and others, it would appear those days are gone.
Put yourself in UBI's shoes, you are solely responsible to your shareholders, you invest a million quid into a game and then some spotty skip rat pirates the same game and you lose potentially 20% of your income; which directly affects future game dev thereby ruining it for all of us......No SHVI (ok judging SHV most probably don't want one) but you see my point.
A few years ago, I bought an EVOIIX, my warranty depended on me buying 99 octane juice from BP, which believe me was a pain when I took a trip to the Scottish Highlands!!! but the point is, I knew about this when I spent nearly £40k on a car.
This isn't a new phenomonon, games for a long time, have at least required you to register on-line. Footy manager has required you to use Steam for a while, admittedly, you have the option not to register on the basis you have to permenantly have the disc in the disc-drive--maybe this is the way that UBI should have gone, given us the option.
In my opinion, DRM is here to stay......One part of me think's this is sad, the other part makes me think that because of this there will be a SHVI sometime 2013. A large proportion of the population now has broadband so from a developer perspective it makes sense and at least they have built in to the game a feature that saves your game if you become disconnected.




Please don't attack me guys, I know a lot of you feel very strongly about this and I don't want this to develop in to another DRM bashing thread. Personally, i'm not overly pleased about it but I would think the pragmatic amongst you may well see a kernel of truth in this???

[KiwiVenge]

/popcorn

I can see what you are saying, but to me it boils down to how it affects each individual. If you can not always be online then it would suck big time. If it simply does not work for you it would suck big time (ie connection to server issues). If you are always online and have no connection issues then one may be able to see how it is an evil but with a decent purpose.
However, I personally hope that the future of single player gaming does not require full time online access because I realize not everyone has it.

I can quite honestly say the DRM has not affected me at all with SH5. Still, I do not think it is a good way for them to go.

[Brag]

Whetyer the permantly online DRN is the future or not depends on buyers. If you buy it , you'll get it.

If you don't, you might be able to prevent customer abuse and to continue living like a free cusomer, able to play without fear of what the publisher may do or not do.

We already see a lot of fear by SH5 buyers, this is reflected in their attitudes in this forum. Yes, Ubi will not keep its servers going forever if they lose money on a game.

[Reece]

There are many thousands of gamers who live in the country area's of Australia alone that either don't have internet access or 56k modems that are not good enough, these people have no chance to play these games at all, it's ridiculous!! I am one of them, but even so, the whole idea of being online for a single player game is stupid, activation yes, but not permanent!:stare:
My only chance to play the game is if the game is patched or a damn crack!:down: I can see only an increase in piracy!!:nope:
There is one ray of light though, there are many who wont buy games that have this type of DRM, this will create a market for an alternate method of protection by other manufacturers! Money is money!:yep:

[Der Teddy Bar]

captainprid,

If you accept that piracy is what Ubi and others tell you it is then even then I could not agree. They have a vested interest to over inflate the affects as it can easily hides many business management/model failures and as with Ubi's new DRM takes away your right to resell or give away the game you paid for.

US government finally admits most piracy estimates are bogus (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/04/us-government-finally-admits-most-piracy-estimates-are-bogus.ars)

Lets look at the facts...

Do you know of any DRM that has stopped a game, movie or music from being pirated? I do not.

This is not a case of can you tell me a game that has not, because there are games that have not been pirated because no-one has a interest in it to be bothered. It is can you show me a DRM platform/version that has not.


I would say put yourself in Stardock's shoes, when everyone was ramping up their DRM and preaching how piracy was costing them 90% of their sales and boo f&cking who, companies like Stardock, Good Old Games, Matrix Games, AGEOD games and so on where releasing games with no DRM and are after all these years going from strength to strength.

There are too many success stories for me to believe Ubi and EA etc.


Lastly what has DRM done for the paying customer?

Has DRM has resulted in Ubi games being finished before being released? NO. But Stardock do.

Has DRM resulted in Ubi giving ongoing support past the cursory patches? NO. But Stardock do.

Has DRM resulted in Ubi delivering what is promised? NO. But Stardock do.

Has DRM resulted in Ubi providing additional free content? NO. But Stardock do.


DRM has not benefited the paying customer, it had caused only issues.


What of Ubi's DRM? BlueByte struggling with Settlers 7 DRM problem; Ubisoft remain silent (http://games.on.net/article/8666/BlueByte_struggling_with_Settlers_7_DRM_problem_Ub isoft_remain_silent)By Brenna Hillier - Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:54am
It's now been three DRM-plagued (http://games.on.net/article/8521/)The Settlers 7 (http://games.on.net/app/6199/). Two facts rear their unsightly heads from the public relations nightmare of the last twenty-one days: that some unhappy gamers are stillUbisoft (http://games.on.net/filelist.php?company=35) have failed to make any statement on the problems.

The latest update on the situation comes from a single employee willing to engage with official-forum goers, who has been on unable to play the game they paid for, and that vacation.

According (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6061083365/m/9121044648?r=9721063258#9721063258) to a BlueByte spokesperson, the developer has been able to "unlock" accounts affected by the failure of Ubisoft's new "always-on" DRM, which left a staggering number of players unable to experience even the single-player campaign.

As the struggling spokesperson notes, the Ubisoft forums are not the official support channel for the game, but as the publisher have failed to make any official statement, press release or announcement, frustrated gamers don't know where else to turn to request assistance.

The "official" support channels are lodging a support ticket by email, or calling a paid hotline. In either case, users must await return contact, and some are reporting week-long delays to responses, or finding their support requests have been arbitrarily closed without action.

A week's wait for a reply on a fault of this scale is simultaneously par for the course and utterly unacceptable; while the sheer numbers involved must be overwhelming, in the face of a major issue like this, most companies would give up on individual responses and post regular public updates.

The lack of response and support seems even more damning in the knowledge that during the absence of one employee, there was noUbisoft are taking the problem seriously; have they only assigned one guy to diffuse this situation...?

Thanks to Brian for flagging this; he says he's had very little luck with Ubisoft support. If you've got anything to share - positive or negative - let us know in the comments section. Did you experience a fault? Has it been rectified? Did you receive sufficient information?

A week's wait for a reply on a fault of this scale is simultaneously par for the course and utterly unacceptable; while the sheer numbers involved must be overwhelming, in the face of a major issue like this, most companies would give up on individual responses and post regular public updates.

The lack of response and support seems even more damning in the knowledge that during the absence of one employee, there was no communication from either developer or publisher. This hardly suggests Ubisoft are taking the problem seriously; have they only assigned one guy to diffuse this situation...?

Thanks to Brian for flagging this; he says he's had very little luck with Ubisoft support. If you've got anything to share - positive or negative - let us know in the comments section. Did you experience a fault? Has it been rectified? Did you receive sufficient information?


I am not saying every company who does not do DRM is legendary, Matrix games sometimes fit into the same grouping above as Ubi.

Also there is the issue where EA turned off support for games that were not 2 years old and only supporting the new game, and this is what will happen with Ubi.

[captainprid]

All excellent points...I guess only time will tell how this particular DRM develops and if other developers write it into their games.

Don't get me wrong though, i'm not trying to defend Ubi and their DRM, not at all, it makes no difference to me one way or another and in an ideal World there would be no DRM at all. I'm just trying to see Ubi's justification for such draconian interference

[jdkbph]

Yeah this is a straight up cost-benefit thing.

The cost being the actual investment in dollars and resources to build, implement and maintain the DRM... which of course is passed along to the customer either as a price increase, or an equivalent slice of the project budget being redirected away from actual game development (features, QA, etc). Then there's the inevitable and entirely foreseeable bad press on review sites and boards like this all over the internet... which translates into lost sales.

On the other hand you have the benefit. The benefit being... what?

It didn't stop the pirates.

And although it may prevent 2nd hand re-sale, I don't believe that's a big market in the PC world at any rate.

Did I miss anything?

Does it still make sense?

JD

[kylania]

Seems the stupid keeps coming from Ubi:

http://www.vg247.com/2010/04/16/ubisoft-drm-software-vital-to-our-business-says-conviction-creative-lead/

[Sailor Steve]

I appreciate some of the points, but here are my problems.

Put yourself in UBI's shoes, you are solely responsible to your shareholders, you invest a million quid into a game and then some spotty skip rat pirates the same game and you lose potentially 20% of your income; which directly affects future game dev thereby ruining it for all of us......No SHVI (ok judging SHV most probably don't want one) but you see my point.
But it also prevents a lot of people from being able to play the game, for a variety of reasons, resulting in lost sales. Enough to make a difference? Probably not.

A few years ago, I bought an EVOIIX, my warranty depended on me buying 99 octane juice from BP, which believe me was a pain when I took a trip to the Scottish Highlands!!! but the point is, I knew about this when I spent nearly £40k on a car.
You're talking to a guy who hasn't owned a car in five years, because I don't have $400 to spend on a junker. Also, would you have bought the car if they required you to ask their permission every time you started it, and had to stay in contact with them the whole time you were driving?

This isn't a new phenomonon, games for a long time, have at least required you to register on-line.
Not really. Every game I own gives the options:

1. Register now.
2. Register later.
3. Never register.

If I can get online at the time I register. If I can't I don't. No problems.

Footy manager has required you to use Steam for a while, admittedly, you have the option not to register on the basis you have to permenantly have the disc in the disc-drive--maybe this is the way that UBI should have gone, given us the option.
Wouldn't work for me. When I tried to download SH4 UBM from Steam, they said I didn't exist.

A large proportion of the population now has broadband...
And a large proportion doesn't. When I couldn't play SH4 because my computer was in storage I bought it anyway, just to support the only subsim available. But I can't play SH5 for no other reason than that UBI says I can't. To me that's unfair and unreasonable, so I won't buy it until they let me play it. If I buy it and they never let me play it, what then?

I'm not a gamer, I'm a history buff. The few games I play are history oriented. So I buy sub sims and flight sims, because I like ships and planes. I'm the ultimate niche market, and I guess I have to suffer because companies are going to make games for people who just want to play games, and that's the way it should be. I guess I'll go back to working on my tabletop miniatures naval game and call it good.

What else can I say?

[captainprid]

There is nothing else you can say....you pretty much said it all there. Like I said before, I am not trying to defend Ubisoft, just TRY to see their point of view.
Like all arguments there are at least 2 points of view and you have illustrated yours perfectly. Like you, I am not a game nut, I have bought SH since III through IV to V and I buy Football manager every year...thats it, apart from Fallout. I buy Silent Hunter beacuse I love submarines and ideally I would like to play it every where I WANT not where Ubisoft tell me I can and I figure that is the hub of most people's argument but what is the answer?? I would Guess and I did say Guess that a lot more developers will move this way over time unless sales are so bad as a direct result of the DRM that they have to find another way to protect their investment, so if nobody buys the game, they will have to find another way that doesn't involve the internet.
My gut feeling is that out of the hypothetical 100 people who want this particular game less than 10 people wouldn't buy this game out of principle rather than the fact they don't have broadband......(Don't all shout at once that I am wrong) and I figure that Ubisoft figured on around 10%, factored it in to their maths and decided it was still worth doing???

[IanC]

Nice counter-points Steve :yep:

Like I said before, I am not trying to defend Ubisoft, just TRY to see their point of view.


Their point of view is to make as much money as possible, no matter what needs to be done (or not done).

[captainprid]

Jesus, I wish I hadn't bothered:wah:

[7thSeal]

Whetyer the permantly online DRN is the future or not depends on buyers. If you buy it , you'll get it.



And the outcome will be of those provided with good connection...

It comes down to control and those still willing to buy with control implemented. If you still get your kicks out of the entertainment provided after what has been implemented, then there's your answer to this whole DRM stuff and whether it will stay. And again, that's based on ones connection in the end. ;)

[wetwarev7]

Jesus, I wish I hadn't bothered:wah:

heh...I feel for ya. There's not a whole lotta fence-sitting going on around this topic. :03:

[Sailor Steve]

Jesus, I wish I hadn't bothered:wah:
I'm glad you did. I may disagree, but expressing your views should always be welcome.

On the other hand, there have been so many of every kind of DRM thread that it's pretty much all been said. I don't like the DRM-bashing thrown into other threads any more than the people who support the game as it is, and I don't like the mockery that comes from some of the supporters.

There wasn't really any of either one here, so it's all good.:sunny:

[captainprid]

I'm glad you did. I may disagree, but expressing your views should always be welcome.

On the other hand, there have been so many of every kind of DRM thread that it's pretty much all been said. I don't like the DRM-bashing thrown into other threads any more than the people who support the game as it is, and I don't like the mockery that comes from some of the supporters.

There wasn't really any of either one here, so it's all good.:sunny:


:salute:

[Der Teddy Bar]

A large proportion of the population now has broadband so from a developer perspective it makes sense and at least they have built in to the game a feature that saves your game if you become disconnected.

I am sorry you did not get the responses you wanted but I hope the tone has at least been OK?

Expanding on from Reese's post with my own experiences with having broadband, or not in good old Oz.

I live 20 minutes outside Canberra in Bungendore, but when it came to getting an internet connection that meant little. The township has ADSL broadband but the 2 estates 3 & 5 minutes up the road your choices were between a local wireless broadband provider (the term broadband very loosely) and Telstra’s sell your 1st born 3G wireless broadband because of the pair gain i.e. Telstra overloads the copper with services in lieu of actually installing adequate infrastructure.

Not having a 1st born I went with the local wireless broadband provider and I had to wait 7 weeks to get my internet connection.

7 weeks later all keen to surf the net and catch up on the world as I know it, but the very next day there is a slight issue. The internet is not available till 08.30 and this happens the next day and the next where the connection was only available starting from 07.30 to 09.00. Upon following this up with my ISP I find that the wireless towers do not have enough battery capacity to cope with the winter overcast days. This took 9 months to be rectified.

I was to find out that this was the least of my problems with this ISP.

There were regular outages of 1-4 hours every 2-4 days and 4-12 hours every 2-3 weeks. The longest outage we had was 3 days. The network was so overloaded the 1500k connection would often be sub 400k.

As bad as this ISP was if it was not for this community oriented ISP I would have had to use a 56k dial service. Remember this is in Australia and a mere 20 minutes outside out national capital.

Then there is just having a internet connection. My wife was a Customs Detector Dog handler and as such we moved a bit in 2.5 years. During this time, not counting the extreme 7 weeks above, I was waiting for a broadband connection for a total of 21 weeks or 5.1 months!

So for every year I would not be able to play for 2 month, or 60 days simply because I was waiting for my broadband to be connected.


These restrictions would not be accepted if it was attached to a book so why is it OK to restrict my use of a game I purchased?

If Ubisoft sold books they would want the library banned as every borrowed book is a lost sale.

[thyro]

Expanding on from Reese's post with my own experiences with having broadband, or not in good old Oz.

I live 20 minutes outside Canberra in Bungendore, but when it came to getting an internet connection that meant little. The township has ADSL broadband but the 2 estates 3 & 5 minutes up the road your choices were between a local wireless broadband provider (the term broadband very loosely) and Telstra’s sell your 1st born 3G wireless broadband because of the pair gain i.e. Telstra overloads the copper with services in lieu of actually installing adequate infrastructure
.

No worries TBar, I have same issue here in UK... it works fine till hiccups minutes later, in my case isn't ISP fault but the line it self.

But having such DRM abortion that is been online all the time I would lose my time and mood on the first line hiccup.

Therefore I vote with my wallet and to me this online DRM/games can die that I simply don't care - its just a game and there are alot of others available.

Cheers

[caine007]

If having DRM meant Silent Hunter V was even half of what I hoped it would be I wouldn't have batted an eyelid about it.

Unfortunately it was still rushed, buggy and incomplete and I get left with less than half a game and buyer's remorse.

Where is my incentive to pay Ubisoft money?

[wetwarev7]

I'd be much more sympathetic if the figures on the money lost due to pirating were based on actual facts rather than biased estimations. It's like the gaming version of G***** W******.

Just because I'm feeling frustrated yet again with the whole online thing:
:damn::damn::damn::damn::damn::damn:

(Edited due to ease of misinterpretation)

[IanC]

It's like the gaming version of GLOBAL WARMING.


Global warming is very real my friend. But I'm guessing this will take us off topic... I do agree with you about the rest though.

edit: ok I just realised you could mean it both ways, sorry

[janh]

Global warming is very real my friend.

Global warming is unfortunately very real, ask the poor pals whose houses in Northern Canada or Alaska starting sinking into mud that was for ages frozen before. Or look at how the navies rally to make use of the almost ice free seas in the arctic region. Those are very good indicators since they are easy to characterize, and studied for many decades.

But back on topic: Here some more interesting reading from a very credible source: U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) working out data for the Congress: http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d10423.pdf

I assume this report is probably going to be cited soon or already on many of the major US news papers. In Germany it made it right away into them. In summary: "Damage due to filesharing strongly exaggerated, data sources and methodology used for estimation (by MPAA etc) not faulty and not meaningful". Enjoy the reading!

[captainprid]

Think this is going wwwaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy off topic and could descend into quite a row!! There are some very polarised views about this and I for one am staying well out of it!!!

:timeout:

[wetwarev7]

Think this is going wwwaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy off topic and could descend into quite a row!! There are some very polarised views about this and I for one am staying well out of it!!!

:timeout:

True!
Sorry about that, I wasn't trying to start a row about THAT particular issue.

I was just trying to make a point about how the losses due to pirating are impossible to track, and I just don't trust the game companies to be objective about it. (I've edited the post to maybe draw less attention to that other thing)

[Harmsway!]

No need to stay out of it. It makes sense to try to see it from their point of view. I certainly would like to know why they are doing this DRM stuff. Maybe if it made sense to me I could buy into it. But I can't make sense of it.

Even with everyone chiming in on this there is still one thing I hadn't seen talked about yet. That is this. What if (don't laugh) years from now SHV is the best dang subsim out there? Only UBI doesn't support it any longer and neither do they release a no DRM patch.

You can understand this. Many of us still play SHIII and will for years to come. But what if SHIII was release with DRM? None of us could play it today if UBI didn't support it.

Unless a patch is release to remove the DRM SHV future is sudden death.

[Tarnsman]

I think the whole piracy issue is overplayed. But I understand the need for some type of copy protection scheme, what I dont understand is why Ubi went for something so burdensome as this?

Is always connected to the internet really the best they could do? If I buy a music CD or movie DVD I dont have to maintain a constant net connection to enjoy that, so I really think something else is at play here. To me it feels like some kind of experiment and since Silent Hunter attracts a small but passionate following we make the perfect guinea pigs. Will this be the business model for the entire media industry going forward?

Also, why would UBi even want to store all saved games on their servers? That dosnt seem effiecient to me. I can easily store my games on my own computer, what purpose is served by remote game saving?

Let me pay my $50 bucks and walk away as friends, I dont need a long term relationship with Ubi over SH5.

[IanC]

Is always connected to the internet really the best they could do? If I buy a music CD or movie DVD I dont have to maintain a constant net connection to enjoy that, so I really think something else is at play here.

That's why some say it's not really about stopping piracy, but about stopping re-sales. They don't want anybody buying a used copy, everybody must buy it new. :shifty:

[wetwarev7]

That's why some say it's not really about stopping piracy, but about stopping re-sales. They don't want anybody buying a used copy, everybody must buy it new. :shifty:


Out of everything I've heard about it, this makes the most sense.

[Der Teddy Bar]

That's why some say it's not really about stopping piracy, but about stopping re-sales. They don't want anybody buying a used copy, everybody must buy it new. :shifty:Out of everything I've heard about it, this makes the most sense.

wetwarev7,

To repeat a post the always online business model is also about forcing the gamer to buy new version of the software every 12 to 18 months and noted restrict 2nd hand sales, which is your legal right.

EA is as always the leader in all things DRM and their take the piss out of the paying customer web page called "Online Service Updates (http://www.ea.com/2/service-updates)" outlines what you can expect of Ubisoft.

Ubisoft has proven again and again they have no customer focus and I am sure will cut SH5 free after a year with no patch to enable people to play it offline.

Look at how many games are only a year or two old. Of the older ones most are less than 4 years with only a handful older than that.


I have never read a more patronising piece of garbage in my life as this below.

As background information, the games scheduled for shutdown in March and April 2010 represent less than 0.3% of all peak online players across all EA titles. Despite some people's perception, there is a lot of behind-the-scenes work involved with keeping these older games up and running. We would rather our hard-working engineering and IT staff focus on keeping a positive experience for the other 99.7% of customers playing our more popular games. These decisions to retire games is never easy. The EA development teams and operational staff pour their hearts into these games almost as much as the customers playing them and it is hard to see one retired. We hope you have gotten many hours of enjoyment out of the games and we appreciate your ongoing patronage.


May 11th, 2010 Online Service Shutdown
FIFA 08 for PC
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07 for Playstation 3 and Xbox 360
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 08 for PC, Playstation 3 and Xbox 360
UEFA Euro 2008 for PC

April 15, 2010 Online Service Shutdown
Burnout 3: Takedown for PlayStation 2
Army of Two for PlayStation 3 (Asia only)

Additionally, the shutdown of Xbox LIVE for Original Xbox consoles and games (scheduled for April 15, 2010) will retire online services for the following titles:

Battlefield 2: Modern Combat for Xbox
Burnout 3: Takedown for Xbox
Madden NFL 09 for Xbox

Previously Shut Down Online Service
Arena Football for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Arena Football™: Road to Glory for PlayStation 2
Armies of Exigo for PC
Burnout Revenge for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Burnout™ Dominator for PlayStation Portable
Def Jam for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360
FIFA 2005 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
FIFA 06 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, Xbox and Xbox 360
FIFA 07 for PC, PlayStation Portable, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
FIFA World Cup 2006 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, Xbox and Xbox 360
Facebreaker for Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3
Fantasy Football 09 for Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3
Fight Night Round 2 for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Fight Night Round 3 for PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable and Xbox
Godfather for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360
Goldeneye: Rogue Agent for Nintendo Game Cube, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Lord of the Rings: Conquest for PC, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360
MVP Baseball™ 2005 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
MVP™ 07 NCAA® Baseball for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Madden NFL 05 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Madden NFL 06 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, Xbox and Xbox 360
Madden NFL 07 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3, PlayStation Portable, Xbox and Xbox 360
Madden NFL 08 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3, PlayStation Portable, Wii, Xbox and Xbox 360
Marvel Nemesis: Rise of the Imperfects for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Medal of Honor Pacific Assault™ for PC
Medal of Honor Rising Sun for PlayStation 2
Mercenaries 2: World in Flames for PC
NASCAR® 05: Chase for the Cup™ for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NASCAR® 06: Total Team Control for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NASCAR® 07 for PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3, Xbox and Xbox 360
NASCAR® 08 for PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360
NASCAR® 09 for PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 (Europe Only)
NBA Live 05 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NBA Live 06 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, Xbox and Xbox 360
NBA Live 07 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, Xbox and Xbox 360
NBA Live 08 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable and Wii
NBA Live 09 for Wii (Europe only)
NBA Street (2007) for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360
NBA Street V3 for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NCAA® Football 05 for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NCAA® Football 06 for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NCAA® Football 07 for PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable and Xbox
NCAA® Football 08 for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NCAA® Football 09 for PlayStation 2
NCAA® March Madness 06 for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NCAA® March Madness™ 2005 for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NCAA® March Madness® 07 for PlayStation 2, Xbox and Xbox 360
NFL Head Coach for PC, PlayStation 2, Xbox
NFL Street 2: Unleashed for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NFL Street 3 for PlayStation 2
NFL Tour for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360
NHL® 05 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NHL® 06 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NHL® 07 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, Xbox and Xbox 360
NHL® 08 for PC
NHL® 08 for PlayStation 2
Need for Speed: Carbon for PlayStation Portable
Need for Speed: ProStreet for PlayStation Portable
Need for Speed: Underground for PlayStation 2
Need for Speed: Underground 2 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Need for Speed: Most Wanted for PlayStation Portable and Xbox
Simpsons for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360
Tiger Woods PGA TOUR® 05 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Tiger Woods PGA TOUR® 06 for PC, PlayStation 2, Xbox and Xbox 360
Tiger Woods PGA TOUR® 07 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable and Xbox
Tiger Woods PGA TOUR® 08 for PlayStation 2 and PlayStation Portable
TimeSplitters 3: Future Perfect for Xbox and PlayStation 2
Total Club Manager 06 for PlayStation 2
UEFA Champions League™ 2004-2005 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
UEFA Champions League™ 2006-2007 for PlayStation 2 and PlayStation Portable
UEFA Champions League™ 07 for PC and Xbox 360

[Brag]

Considering Ubi's behavior so far, paying for the right to hook up to their server to be able to play SH5 is a bad investement. Not only it is widely reported an unfinished, buggy product, but there is no guarantee of how long Ubi will continue maintaining acccess to their servers.

If you think you are buying by paying for this game, you are badly misinformed.

[Reece]

Originally Posted by IanC http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/viewpost.gif (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1363616#post1363616)
That's why some say it's not really about stopping piracy, but about stopping re-sales. They don't want anybody buying a used copy, everybody must buy it new. :shifty:
This doesn't add up, if I go to any EB store here in Australia, they have second hand Xbox/Playstation games etc for sale or swap! never have I seen it for PC Games. It is getting rare to find shops here in Australia selling PC games, this is even before the OSP/DRM situation, in EB stores, out of all the walls, isles, etc, only a small corner of a wall is for PC games, the demand for PC games is gone, and now, thanks to this new DRM, it's shrinking even more, other Stores like Big-W, K-Mart, Meyers, they are gone totally!!:damn:

[Harmsway!]

This doesn't add up, if I go to any EB store here in Australia, they have second hand Xbox/Playstation games etc for sale or swap! never have I seen it for PC Games. It is getting rare to find shops here in Australia selling PC games, this is even before the OSP/DRM situation, in EB stores, out of all the walls, isles, etc, only a small corner of a wall is for PC games, the demand for PC games is gone, and now, thanks to this new DRM, it's shrinking even more, other Stores like Big-W, K-Mart, Meyers, they are gone totally!!:damn:


It doesn't make sense to me either. Aren't there already used copies on Ebay? Or does the registration process make it specific to the copy and can't be registered again. If that's the case one time online is all that's needed not continuous DRM nonsense.

[Harmsway!]

Considering Ubi's behavior so far, paying for the right to hook up to their server to be able to play SH5 is a bad investement. Not only it is widely reported an unfinished, buggy product, but there is no guarantee of how long Ubi will continue maintaining acccess to their servers.

If you think you are buying by paying for this game, you are badly misinformed.

I agree. That's why I think of it as sudden death. That's why I can't buy it. It's like buying a time bomb and not knowing when it's going off. At what day and hour will it be gone forever?

Of course I want to believe UBI will remove the DRM someday but how can one buy it until then? How can one be sure?

[wetwarev7]

Originally Posted by wetwarev7 http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/viewpost.gif (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1363633#post1363633)
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanC http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/viewpost.gif (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1363616#post1363616)
That's why some say it's not really about stopping piracy, but about stopping re-sales. They don't want anybody buying a used copy, everybody must buy it new. :shifty:

Out of everything I've heard about it, this makes the most sense.

wetwarev7,

To repeat a post the always online business model is also about forcing the gamer to buy new version of the software every 12 to 18 months and noted restrict 2nd hand sales, which is your legal right.

EA is as always the leader in all things DRM and their take the piss out of the paying customer web page called "Online Service Updates (http://www.ea.com/2/service-updates)" outlines what you can expect of Ubisoft.

Ubisoft has proven again and again they have no customer focus and I am sure will cut SH5 free after a year with no patch to enable people to play it offline.

Look at how many games are only a year or two old. Of the older ones most are less than 4 years with only a handful older than that.


I have never read a more patronising piece of garbage in my life as this below.

As background information, the games scheduled for shutdown in March and April 2010 represent less than 0.3% of all peak online players across all EA titles. Despite some people's perception, there is a lot of behind-the-scenes work involved with keeping these older games up and running. We would rather our hard-working engineering and IT staff focus on keeping a positive experience for the other 99.7% of customers playing our more popular games. These decisions to retire games is never easy. The EA development teams and operational staff pour their hearts into these games almost as much as the customers playing them and it is hard to see one retired. We hope you have gotten many hours of enjoyment out of the games and we appreciate your ongoing patronage.


May 11th, 2010 Online Service Shutdown
FIFA 08 for PC
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07 for Playstation 3 and Xbox 360
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 08 for PC, Playstation 3 and Xbox 360
UEFA Euro 2008 for PC

April 15, 2010 Online Service Shutdown
Burnout 3: Takedown for PlayStation 2
Army of Two for PlayStation 3 (Asia only)

Additionally, the shutdown of Xbox LIVE for Original Xbox consoles and games (scheduled for April 15, 2010) will retire online services for the following titles:

Battlefield 2: Modern Combat for Xbox
Burnout 3: Takedown for Xbox
Madden NFL 09 for Xbox

Previously Shut Down Online Service
Arena Football for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Arena Football™: Road to Glory for PlayStation 2
Armies of Exigo for PC
Burnout Revenge for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Burnout™ Dominator for PlayStation Portable
Def Jam for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360
FIFA 2005 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
FIFA 06 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, Xbox and Xbox 360
FIFA 07 for PC, PlayStation Portable, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
FIFA World Cup 2006 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, Xbox and Xbox 360
Facebreaker for Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3
Fantasy Football 09 for Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3
Fight Night Round 2 for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Fight Night Round 3 for PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable and Xbox
Godfather for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360
Goldeneye: Rogue Agent for Nintendo Game Cube, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Lord of the Rings: Conquest for PC, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360
MVP Baseball™ 2005 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
MVP™ 07 NCAA® Baseball for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Madden NFL 05 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Madden NFL 06 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, Xbox and Xbox 360
Madden NFL 07 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3, PlayStation Portable, Xbox and Xbox 360
Madden NFL 08 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3, PlayStation Portable, Wii, Xbox and Xbox 360
Marvel Nemesis: Rise of the Imperfects for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Medal of Honor Pacific Assault™ for PC
Medal of Honor Rising Sun for PlayStation 2
Mercenaries 2: World in Flames for PC
NASCAR® 05: Chase for the Cup™ for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NASCAR® 06: Total Team Control for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NASCAR® 07 for PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3, Xbox and Xbox 360
NASCAR® 08 for PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360
NASCAR® 09 for PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 (Europe Only)
NBA Live 05 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NBA Live 06 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, Xbox and Xbox 360
NBA Live 07 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, Xbox and Xbox 360
NBA Live 08 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable and Wii
NBA Live 09 for Wii (Europe only)
NBA Street (2007) for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360
NBA Street V3 for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NCAA® Football 05 for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NCAA® Football 06 for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NCAA® Football 07 for PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable and Xbox
NCAA® Football 08 for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NCAA® Football 09 for PlayStation 2
NCAA® March Madness 06 for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NCAA® March Madness™ 2005 for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NCAA® March Madness® 07 for PlayStation 2, Xbox and Xbox 360
NFL Head Coach for PC, PlayStation 2, Xbox
NFL Street 2: Unleashed for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NFL Street 3 for PlayStation 2
NFL Tour for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360
NHL® 05 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NHL® 06 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NHL® 07 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, Xbox and Xbox 360
NHL® 08 for PC
NHL® 08 for PlayStation 2
Need for Speed: Carbon for PlayStation Portable
Need for Speed: ProStreet for PlayStation Portable
Need for Speed: Underground for PlayStation 2
Need for Speed: Underground 2 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Need for Speed: Most Wanted for PlayStation Portable and Xbox
Simpsons for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360
Tiger Woods PGA TOUR® 05 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Tiger Woods PGA TOUR® 06 for PC, PlayStation 2, Xbox and Xbox 360
Tiger Woods PGA TOUR® 07 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable and Xbox
Tiger Woods PGA TOUR® 08 for PlayStation 2 and PlayStation Portable
TimeSplitters 3: Future Perfect for Xbox and PlayStation 2
Total Club Manager 06 for PlayStation 2
UEFA Champions League™ 2004-2005 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
UEFA Champions League™ 2006-2007 for PlayStation 2 and PlayStation Portable
UEFA Champions League™ 07 for PC and Xbox 360

I didn't say I agreed with it, just that it made more sense than all the other theories.

[IanC]

It doesn't make sense to me either. Aren't there already used copies on Ebay? Or does the registration process make it specific to the copy and can't be registered again. If that's the case one time online is all that's needed not continuous DRM nonsense.

Yes apparently Ubisoft binds serial number and user account.
Just Google something like 'DRM prevents resales' and you'll get more detailed information.
Here's an interesting article that touches a little on that problem. http://www.gamespot.com/users/jamyskis/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=m-100-25807107

[IanC]

This doesn't add up, if I go to any EB store here in Australia, they have second hand Xbox/Playstation games etc for sale or swap! never have I seen it for PC Games. It is getting rare to find shops here in Australia selling PC games, this is even before the OSP/DRM situation, in EB stores, out of all the walls, isles, etc, only a small corner of a wall is for PC games, the demand for PC games is gone, and now, thanks to this new DRM, it's shrinking even more, other Stores like Big-W, K-Mart, Meyers, they are gone totally!!:damn:

I agree Reece, nothing adds up. Unless they're slowly doing away with PC gaming or maybe just Silent Hunter for PC. From what I'm seeing, SH5 is a step in the console direction already.

[Tarnsman]

This doesn't add up, if I go to any EB store here in Australia, they have second hand Xbox/Playstation games etc for sale or swap! never have I seen it for PC Games. It is getting rare to find shops here in Australia selling PC games, this is even before the OSP/DRM situation, in EB stores, out of all the walls, isles, etc, only a small corner of a wall is for PC games, the demand for PC games is gone, and now, thanks to this new DRM, it's shrinking even more, other Stores like Big-W, K-Mart, Meyers, they are gone totally!!:damn:

I think its not demand thats droped, its supply. Its not as if those XBOX and PS3 titles are available for the PC it seems. Here in the states its the same thing. I wonder how much longer the PC game platform will survive. How many GPUs and such can you sell to support WoW?

It all comes down to control. The PC is a relativly open platform where the console is closed by definition. Personally I dont care for the "games" generally offered on consoles, they are just too simplistic and dont have that replay value like my simulations on PC have. Basically, consoles are like having an arcade in your house -- which is cool, but I lost interrest in arcade games when I was about 20. (and Im not going to meet any new girls in my living room -- not my age anyway)

PC simulations like the Janes series brought me into PCs ten years later and Im still here. So this Ubi DRM thing worries me not just about SH5 but my PC hobby in genral.

[Iron Budokan]

I agree with the general thrust of the arguments being made here. PC gaming is entering very dark days indeed. :cry:

[Phantom Mark]

Well a great example of the short sighted approach in this game is this....

I have to work away monday to friday, and in the place I am staying I have no internet connection at all, driving me crazy as you can imagine, which of course means I cannot play SH5 on my lappy whilst away from my main PC at home, and now the weekends are so precious with my family that I dont play games over the weekend, thus rendering my copy of SH5 a useless pile of steaming cr*p quite honestly.

Thankfully I have SH4 on the lappy which runs very nice, cant help but feel very very annoyed at this DRM and will definately not be buying any more of them, in fact I will probably have to resort to a crak for my bought and paid for copy of SH5 so I can actually play it, how bizzare is that ??? very sad when you have to start searching for warez versions of games you have bought and paid for...........

(Yes its monday and I am posting from home as I have a couple of days off from work)

[sabretwo]

I haven't purchased SH5 (and refuse to do so until the DRM is removed), but can someone who purchased the game answer a question for me...

Does the SH5 User Agreement commit UBI to patching the game if the servers are removed or shut down for some reason? If it does state this and UBI doesn't fulfill their end of the agreement, then there could be the makings of a class action suit. On the other hand, if there's no commitment in the User Agreement to patch the game if servers are disabled, then UBI's verbal promise is nothing but meaningless drivel.

If UBI were truly commited to patching the game and honoring the rights of players in the future, it should be clearly stated in the agreement.

[Yak]

I would be extremely sceptical of it. If anything it would be a sweeping 'Ubisoft reserves the right to suspend services without notice or compensation blah blah'

No way they would commit to a guarantee of removing the DRM, no way.

As for the purpose of DRM, not one person here has mentioned what both Ubi and EA have said in their most important communications: That to their stock holders.

They openly state they want to move towards a greater reliance on DLC as a revenue source.

DLC and the micro transaction system is a great money spinner and by forcing a connection, means people have constant access and ease of purchase for it.

They are effectively training their audience to accept the new model.

I think also that ubi's past actions (Assassin's Creed 1 for eg where the game would constantly try to phone home after June 3rd 2008) lead me to not trust their motives with regards to privacy and data mining either.

[McBeck]

It sure is refreshing to see a wellargumented thread on this forum!

Carry on :salute:

[Aramike]

Ok, I know a lot of guy's don't like UBI's new digital rights management (DRM) and I can fully understand that. However after a lot of thought, I can also understand Ubi's point of view. SHV is the first game to use full DRM, consequently, it's a new thing and therefore represents change. We have all for a long time been used to the status-quo; you buy a game, you install it, you play it- as long as your PC is up to it, you require nothing further. Howvere, thanks to our old friend TPB and others, it would appear those days are gone.
Put yourself in UBI's shoes, you are solely responsible to your shareholders, you invest a million quid into a game and then some spotty skip rat pirates the same game and you lose potentially 20% of your income; which directly affects future game dev thereby ruining it for all of us......No SHVI (ok judging SHV most probably don't want one) but you see my point.
A few years ago, I bought an EVOIIX, my warranty depended on me buying 99 octane juice from BP, which believe me was a pain when I took a trip to the Scottish Highlands!!! but the point is, I knew about this when I spent nearly £40k on a car.
This isn't a new phenomonon, games for a long time, have at least required you to register on-line. Footy manager has required you to use Steam for a while, admittedly, you have the option not to register on the basis you have to permenantly have the disc in the disc-drive--maybe this is the way that UBI should have gone, given us the option.
In my opinion, DRM is here to stay......One part of me think's this is sad, the other part makes me think that because of this there will be a SHVI sometime 2013. A large proportion of the population now has broadband so from a developer perspective it makes sense and at least they have built in to the game a feature that saves your game if you become disconnected.




Please don't attack me guys, I know a lot of you feel very strongly about this and I don't want this to develop in to another DRM bashing thread. Personally, i'm not overly pleased about it but I would think the pragmatic amongst you may well see a kernel of truth in this???Well put, except it ultimately comes down to the customer. Ubi can do whatever the hell they want to with DRM, as far as I'm concerned. As we, the consumer, can do whatever the hell we want to with our money.

So pick your poison - lose 20% of your customers due to piracy or lose potentially more due to draconian DRM schemes?

[SubV]

Also, why would UBi even want to store all saved games on their servers? That dosnt seem effiecient to me. I can easily store my games on my own computer, what purpose is served by remote game saving?

Because that's the key point of their DRM. They constantly modify your saves to get the mission goals accomplished.

I read somewhere on the net about those who use pirated version of SH5... they cannot progress in campaign. They can't even complete any mission goal, because all the code that does it is server-side.

[Fincuan]

Because that's the key point of their DRM. They constantly modify your saves to get the mission goals accomplished.


Nope, nothing that advanced


I read somewhere on the net about those who use pirated version of SH5... they cannot progress in campaign. They can't even complete any mission goal, because all the code that does it is server-side.

See above. The "server side code" is a rumor that started spinning when Ubi initially claimed that their DRM hadn't been cracked and that those who claimed having done so "had an incomplete version of the game". As we later learned this was not the case. The cracked version was full and complete, and advancing in the game was just a matter of "flipping a switch". In pirated games this just had to be done manually because the game couldn't phone home to get a permission to do it. I've heard that such manual editing is not necessary anymore though, as there's a Ubi DRM-server emulator out there.

[captainprid]

Should we be discussing the fact that there are cracked versions out there???

[wetwarev7]

Should we be discussing the fact that there are cracked versions out there???

Only at your own peril :o

[Fincuan]

Kind of hard to discuss DRM at all without touching piratism don't you think? Preventing the latter is the whole point of the system after all.

[robbo180265]

Kind of hard to discuss DRM at all without touching piratism don't you think? Preventing the latter is the whole point of the system after all.

I think it's the way it's discussed that makes the difference;)

[Phantom Mark]

Like I said before the most crazy part of all of this is that some people who own legit copies of this game are having to turn to a iccky version, I mean what kind of message is Ubi sending it's customers here ???:damn:

[robbo180265]

Like I said before the most crazy part of all of this is that some people who own legit copies of this game are having to turn to a iccky version, I mean what kind of message is Ubi sending it's customers here ???:damn:

Are they?

I'm still playing my "real" copy. Apart from the first 2 weekends I've had absolutely nothing go wrong with my game (DRM or otherwise). Why would I want a dodgy copy?

I don't know of anyone who "owns" the game who's needed to go :arrgh!: either.

[captainprid]

Nope my legit copy is fine

[Phantom Mark]

There is nothing wrong with my legit copy either, my problem is that I work away from my main PC all week, playing on my laptop is fine except for the fact I have no internet connection where I am staying, so I dont fit the mould of those who have the Ubi mould setup, should that exclude me from being able to play the game I have bought and paid for ?

[captainprid]

There is nothing wrong with my legit copy either, my problem is that I work away from my main PC all week, playing on my laptop is fine except for the fact I have no internet connection where I am staying, so I dont fit the mould of those who have the Ubi mould setup, should that exclude me from being able to play the game I have bought and paid for ?



Short answer......No it shouldn't

[Yak]

But that isn't Ubi's answer... ;)

And you by buying the game said that it is A-okay too, regardless of your actual opinion.

[robbo180265]

There is nothing wrong with my legit copy either, my problem is that I work away from my main PC all week, playing on my laptop is fine except for the fact I have no internet connection where I am staying, so I dont fit the mould of those who have the Ubi mould setup, should that exclude me from being able to play the game I have bought and paid for ?

Thats a fair point and one I can't argue with. It's even worse for people (like Sailor Steve) who have no internet connection at all.

I play MMO's and my machine is wired straight into the broadband - so I knew it wouldn't affect me.

[demonsss]

No cracks.

The Management

[thyro]

Should we be discussing the fact that there are cracked versions out there???

No there aren't cracked versions! The only thing that exists is DRM mods and DRM mod fix ...

So the techical term is "mods" not "cracks". Cracks have the hulls on SH5, alots of them.

:haha:

[Westbroek]

Not only has my pristine, legit copy worked perfectly from the get go... it also earned me a bright shiny, new (old) Prince of Persia game. I've played it all of ten minutes so far.
Can i get a DRM roll, please? And the next free game from Ubi that I'll probably never play is.......
But seriously, it's not all bad news. :yeah:

[Uber Gruber]

What gets my goat is that there are people who are playing SH5 for free without having to connect to the internet. I think these are the very same people that UBI was targeting with it's oppresive and intrusive DRM/OSP/BOLOX (oops, there I go again).

And whilst these people have uninterupted playtime with SH5, I have to sit on my hands in the corner waiting for UBIs Brain Fart to be removed before I can purchase the product and actually play it.

Am I wrong to feel somewhat peeved that the people that UBI was trying to prevent from playing SH5 ARE and the people who have supported UBI and want to play SH5 CANT.

So that's one to the pirates then and one in the eye for the customers.

But then it was never really about Pirates was it UBI...:nope:

Cheers, UG.

[Reece]

Uber Gruber, some of us can't play online though! Once the game is patched and is quite a good playable sim I hope that the DRM is patched out, but if it isn't and there is a crack that works I will buy the game then use it, what other choice do I have other than to give it a total miss!!:hmmm:

[Uber Gruber]

It's pretty crap Reece when genuine customers end up not being able to play the game yet those 'other people' (who we're not allowed to mention here) can play the 'other version' of the game (which we're also not allowed to mention here).

UBIs current stance really isn't helping genuine customers stay genuine. :down:

[Brag]

Downloading a mod that allows you to play your legally obtained SHV copy without internet connection is not pirating.

But I won't give Ubi any money until THEY get rid of thee OSP DRM.

[Adriatico]

Uber Gruber, some of us can't play online though! Once the game is patched and is quite a good playable sim I hope that the DRM is patched out, but if it isn't and there is a crack that works I will buy the game then use it, what other choice do I have other than to give it a total miss!!:hmmm:
Bad luck Reece,
AC2 is unlocked 2nd time yesterday, this time with a simple ***** :har:
They even wrote a letter to Ubi...

But SH5 is forgotten game, both by market and hackers...
(great work Ubi...:dead:)

[Brag]

Bad luck Reece,
AC2 is unlocked 2nd time yesterday, this time with a simple ***** :har:
They even wrote a letter to Ubi...

But SH5 is forgotten game, both by market and hackers...
(great work Ubi...:dead:)


From what I hear SHV is next on the modder's list. So far, they are right on schedule. This kwack will go faster. :D

[Takeda Shingen]

Downloading a mod that allows you to play your legally obtained SHV copy without internet connection is not pirating.

But I won't give Ubi any money until THEY get rid of thee OSP DRM.

Altering copy protection is, legally, the same as pirating software. We won't be discussing it here.

The Management

[captainprid]

Don't hijack my thread to talk about cracking and pirated copies. The first post on the first page is what this thread is about. Want to discuss something else?? Start a new thread

[Yak]

Interestingly, I was down at JB HiFi yesterday, and while they still don't have SH5 (as do none of the other stores in this capitol city!) I noticed Assassin's Creed 2 boxes all had the price tag covering the 'PERMANENT INTERNET CONNECTION REQUIRED TO PLAY THIS GAME' warning.

Perhaps the only way they can sell copies? :yeah:

[Uber Gruber]

Interestingly, I was down at JB HiFi yesterday, and while they still don't have SH5 (as do none of the other stores in this capitol city!) I noticed Assassin's Creed 2 boxes all had the price tag covering the 'PERMANENT INTERNET CONNECTION REQUIRED TO PLAY THIS GAME' warning.

Brilliant! :rotfl2::rotfl2:

[Adriatico]

Altering copy protection is, legally, the same as pirating software. We won't be discussing it here.

The Management
???
It's your right to ban whatever you want... but very, very interesting view on Brag's post 63... home activities with legaly bought original game...
:06:

[Eightbit]

???
It's your right to ban whatever you want... but very, very interesting view on Brag's post 63... home activities with legaly bought original game...
:06:

It's sad but true. Circumventing drm and other digital locks+hardware is considered illegal in a lot of countries. There are many loopholes that can allow you to do it legally tho. It really depends where you live.

[Takeda Shingen]

Locked on request of OP.

The Management