New here- advice on game genre

[crocodile]

Hi everybody, I'm quiet new to the videogames world. I don't have really many hours to play but I'm fascinated by realistic sims, not commercial game like online FPS, sports game etc. The problem is that I can't decide with what sim genre to start with. I know that this forum is mainly for naval enthusiastics, but I noticed that many of you also play flight sims and other sims, so I wanted to ask you few question just to have different opinions.
I'm not scared by large manuals to read and game complexity, I'd just like to find a genre and practice in that one, since I don't have many hours to make experiments and much money to buy several kind of games.
My PC at the moment is 5 years old. Game like DW, SH3 and perhaps SH4 can run, new flight sim no, but of course old flight sims should run as well.
What I'm mostly concerned about is possible bore I could find playing certain sims.
1)Submarines have a huge impact on me since I saw movies like Das Boot etc but I wonder: in WW2 subsim isn't getting a bit boring to hunt down ships convoy and never submarine vs submarine. Aren't this convoy attacks getting a bit boring in the long run? Can ships in SH series sink Subs with Torpedoes or only with deep charges?
2)And in modern sub sim like DW isn't getting a bit boring after a while tracking down sonar impulses, noises etc?
3)About combat flight sims: the battle in the sky are always different or after a while is always about getting behind the enemy tail in ww2 sims and learning to use avionics in modern sim?
4)A general overview question: what sort of battles are more exciting, various and with emphasis on tactical and strategical abilities rather than the technology your faction own? The ones in the skies or the ones at sea?
Thanks a lot for your help, I know that questions like this are difficult to answer but I just ask for your experience and would like to hear what actually made you like a sim "sector" rather than the other and what aspects keep you interested in a particular genre.

[Dowly]

Two great yet different combat flight sims to recommend are IL2 (buy the 1946 pack, has all expansions etc. ever released) and Battle of Britain II.

IL2 has craploads of different planes to fly and theatres to fly in. BoBII, as the name implies, concentrates to the Battle of Britain with 4 or so flyable planes only, but it shines in the size of the battles and the AI, which once you patch it up with the latest BDG patch is VERY life like (AI makes mistakes, tried to trick you, use historical tactics etc.) which easily makes up for the low amount of flyable planes.

Moving onto ground battles, I'd recommend the Close Combat series. They've started to re-release the games with new names and few new features. Top down view where you command your troops in WWII Europe. The games are old, but I still love them and go back to them once in awhile. Can't recommend them enough. :rock:

EDIT: Ow and welcome aboard.

[papa_smurf]

For ground battles, try the Combat Mission series, mainly 1 2 and 3. The graphics are not top of the range (there about 8yrs old now), but they make up for it in the tactical/strategy side. There a, I go your go type of game, where you have to plan out your advance, then watch it to see if it works out.

Would recommend these:D

And welcome aboard:salute:

[Raptor1]

All of your numbered questions are entirely subjective, you can't know what is boring, repetative or useful until you try it yourself IMO...

If I were to recommend games, here they are:

Air: As Dowly mentioned, for WWII I would get either IL-2 for a survey (Multiplayer also) sim and BoBII for a study sim. Outside WWII, Red Baron 3D for the Great War and MiG Alley for the Korean War are both old but still excellent sims. For a modern simulation, try one of the Falcon 4.0 variants (Allied Force, and OpenFalcon).

Naval: If you want a strategic type game, you have SES' Distant Guns 1.5 and Jutland about the Russo-Japanese War and WWI respectively, which I highly recommend. For a modern game, Harpoon 3 ANW is very good and highly detailed but lacks graphics; Fleet Command is older and less detailed, but easier to get into and is still a pretty good game.

For a single vehicle simulation, DW is definitely a good game for a modern setting, and of course SH for WWII.

Ground: Too large a variety to properly list, so I'll just put in my favourites. For a tactical game, the Close Combat series is definitely excellent if slightly dated. Operational-level wargames (My favourite genre in strategy) include The Operational Art of War III, which can take some getting used to but beats everything else for versatility, with scenarios ranging anywhere from modern to Pre-WWI; there's also the Airborne Assault series (Highway to the Reich, Conquest of the Aegean and the soon to be released Battles from the Bulge), which is also excellent, highly detailed and realistic.

[crocodile]

Thanks a lot for your replies so far and for the advices.
I know that most of my questions are gonna be extremely subjective, but if you can give me an opinion also in that department I'd be extremely grateful, even just to have an idea of what people on such a serious sim community think.
-When you play a naval/sub sim, after hours and hours of ambushing convoys and trying to stay stealth, what tactical aspect of this sort of fight keep your interest alive even after a long time?
-And when you play a flight sim, after hours and hours of battles in the skies, trying to get better shoot position and avoiding getting overwhelmed by other planes, what tactical aspect of this sort of fight keep you r interst alive even after a long time?
Thanks and tx for the warm welcome!:yeah:

[Dowly]

I can only speak for myself, but what keeps me doing the same type of missions over and over again in both sub and flight sims, is that when I return back home, I imagine the dock/airfield crew watching me return, knowing I've been thru hell and survived. I know it sounds a bit crazy, but that's what keeps me going. :DL

[NeonSamurai]

Hi everybody, I'm quiet new to the videogames world. I don't have really many hours to play but I'm fascinated by realistic sims, not commercial game like online FPS, sports game etc. The problem is that I can't decide with what sim genre to start with. I know that this forum is mainly for naval enthusiastics, but I noticed that many of you also play flight sims and other sims, so I wanted to ask you few question just to have different opinions.
I'm not scared by large manuals to read and game complexity, I'd just like to find a genre and practice in that one, since I don't have many hours to make experiments and much money to buy several kind of games.
My PC at the moment is 5 years old. Game like DW, SH3 and perhaps SH4 can run, new flight sim no, but of course old flight sims should run as well.
What I'm mostly concerned about is possible bore I could find playing certain sims.

Hi and welcome

A first thought I had is maybe you would want to start with a simpler low fidelity sim than a high one. High fidelity sims would take a heck of a lot of learning, particularly flight sims if you have no previous flight sim experience. I know personally I can find it difficult getting into a high fidelity flight sim like Falcon 4.0 allied force (or modded 4.0) when my time availability is limited, as there is so much to learn/relearn and little time to actually apply it, you may find you end up going nowhere.


1)Submarines have a huge impact on me since I saw movies like Das Boot etc but I wonder: in WW2 subsim isn't getting a bit boring to hunt down ships convoy and never submarine vs submarine. Aren't this convoy attacks getting a bit boring in the long run? Can ships in SH series sink Subs with Torpedoes or only with deep charges?I have never found so, at least no more than any other game. The dynamic campaign is what keeps the game interesting, as each patrol is different from the last and you never know what you may or may not encounter. The challenge is always there too no matter how good you get. I think modded SH3 has guided torpedoes like the FIDO for ship use against subs, but I can't say for sure. It does have the full compliment of guns, depth charges and later hedgehogs. Plus of course aircraft.

2)And in modern sub sim like DW isn't getting a bit boring after a while tracking down sonar impulses, noises etc?I don't much care for DW due to the canned campaigns which gets very repetitive for me. Sure you can download missions, and make your own, but there isn't much point making your own for your own use, as you will know everything about the mission.

3)About combat flight sims: the battle in the sky are always different or after a while is always about getting behind the enemy tail in ww2 sims and learning to use avionics in modern sim?Me I am a jet age air simmer, and don't care for prop planes a whole lot. A lot of the guys here though are the opposite. Both have a lot in common though modern sims have the added complexities of avionics and much more complex weapon systems. Dog fighting is pretty much the same though. All about energy management and pitting the strengths of your aircraft against the weaknesses of your opponent's. Energy is life. Though that is modern air combat theory applied retroactively to ww2 combat (still works though). WW2 era theory treated things more like a chess match (move, counter move)


4)A general overview question: what sort of battles are more exciting, various and with emphasis on tactical and strategical abilities rather than the technology your faction own? The ones in the skies or the ones at sea?
Thanks a lot for your help, I know that questions like this are difficult to answer but I just ask for your experience and would like to hear what actually made you like a sim "sector" rather than the other and what aspects keep you interested in a particular genre.Not sure how to answer this one. It is really a question of what the player finds fun and that can be different player to player. Also there are land sims (tank sims) and hybrid sims (land, air, and sea). You may want to give ArmA or ArmA 2 a try as it is a hybrid sim lite game. Beyond that I am not going to give any specific recommendations, I suggest you start reading game reviews at sim dedicated gaming sites like here, SimHQ and so on, and pick a game or two you think will interest you.

I will however advise against IL2 if you have no flight sim experience. The tutorials in that game are rubbish (basically you sit there and watch replays that show off different things, totally hands off), and it is not a friendly environment to learn how to fly IMHO. I am not sure what to recommend though. Falcon 4.0 Allied Force has good highly detailed tutorials, but they are on a pdf manual which makes it more difficult unless you have 2 computers; also F4AF is a high fidelity sim and very complex. it will be months before you are at all ready to fly in combat in a campaign. You could try strike fighters 2 series from www.thirdwire.com (http://www.thirdwire.com), they are flight sim lite games, and easy to pick up, but do not come with any built in tutorials.

By comparison, subsims are much slower paced (and no worries about crashing into the ground at any moment in time while digging through the manual) and generally easier to learn.

All of this assumes you are only interested in military sims.

Me I play all kinds of different games (other than sports games usually) so what I find interesting and fun varies wildly.



<edit>
Why are you guys recommending strategy/tactical games like close combat and the like? Those games really are not sims unless you use a very broad definition (otherwise why have their own category?).

Plus generally in the SH series you do not go from convoy to convoy for hours on end, it can take a while just to find one convoy, if you are lucky. You may just end up finding nothing but destroyers and the occasional tramp steamer the entire patrol. I keep playing for the unpredictability of no 2 encounters playing out the same, I also tend to favor games that have fully dynamic campaigns and avoid stock mission campaigns.

[NeonSamurai]

Their site says otherwise <shrug>

<edit> removing references as they don't have IP holder permission to do what they did.

[Raptor1]

That's only if you want to have them both installed at the same time, most definitely works standalone.

[NeonSamurai]

K then I am going to have to pull all reference to it here as the modders do not have permission to offer the full game (I did some investigating). So if your post ends up in the recycling bin, or edited up you know why. Modding without permission is one thing, offering the full game rolled in your mod is something else entirely.

Furthermore I would ask that no further reference be made to this mod by anyone.

If anyone has any questions feel free to PM me, anyhow carry on :)

[crocodile]

I've pickup up 2 games to focus on, FreeFalcon and Dangerous Waters and I'm now reading reading reading and I've not installed anything so far because I wanna understand from the learning phase which one suits me more. They both look very difficult to learn, but I'm in no rush.
Surely the battle in the skies is really different from the one above or under the sea. Perhaps in the naval one the emphasis is more on crew skills while in the aerial one the avionics and technology make really the difference, and it's crucial to master the instruments and weapons available rather than trusting own instinct? I mean if two jet pilots have equal skills the one with the best aircraft will win 99% of the times, while in sub vs sub or sub vs ship it's more up to the skills of the crews/commanders.....?