Boy, am I dumb or what?

[YellowTailedNoob]

Greets Amigos!

Ok, sure, it took me a few years to more or less to 'master' the nuances of flight simulation. So, in my naivite', I figured SH would be easy to grasp. Wrong. In my defense (such as it is), I am approaching Sub Sims like I do Flight Sims. Do it right or don't bother doing it at all ....

I've been reading most of your posts, trying to absorb as much as I could the tonnage of information you all have graciously displayed for we noobs. Know what I got from those hours? I swear, before the lights went out, I heard a crew member say "Don't touch that! It will detonate a tor ..."

So, is there a tutorial anywhere, for SH 3, 4 or 5? One that starts from "Double click the shortcut on your desktop" and ends when it says something like "Better luck next time, you idiot".

I've been working at this, and still when I open any of the three sims, if I'm fortunate enough to find a target, I freeze and despite all the download/print/read/absorb of your individual tutorials (and thank you a ton for all your work - sorry I am unable to grasp it. Believe me, it is me, not you), I'm just not getting it. Perhaps I've missed the tutorial that starts with "How to find a target" and ends with "Say hello to Davy Jones". In very simple, small words.

Thanks Guys. As I've said before, you all are every bit as gracious and knowledgable as the Flight Sim community (which is really saying something), and I appreciate it!

Chip B.

[TwistedAdonis]

Try this: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=111445

Other stuff: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=108931

I think this is mainly for SH IV, but much will still pertain I suppose.

Have fun.

[AW-MOE]

Other than the sub operation and navigation should be easy, you can't run at 100% throttle all the time because you'll use up too much fuel and the faster you go the more noise you make. All you have really learn is coming up with a firing solution, which in a combat flight sim like IL2+PF means leading the target slightly. In a sub torpedoes run at 36-44 knots so you need to lead the shot a lot more.

To get a firing solution you need range to target ( you have to ident the ship first), speed of target (multiple readings are usually required for your crew to estimate speed properly) and angle of the bow. This last one refers to the angle of the bow from the target ship to you and not from you towards the target.

If you are directly left of the target then the angle of the bow is 270 degrees, meaning if you were on the bridge of the target what direction would you need to look in order to see your sub.

I got a flight sime buddy of mine hooked on subsims but he always confused the angle of the bow.

[Nico09]

Other than the sub operation and navigation should be easy, you can't run at 100% throttle all the time because you'll use up too much fuel and the faster you go the more noise you make. All you have really learn is coming up with a firing solution, which in a combat flight sim like IL2+PF means leading the target slightly. In a sub torpedoes run at 36-44 knots so you need to lead the shot a lot more.

To get a firing solution you need range to target ( you have to ident the ship first), speed of target (multiple readings are usually required for your crew to estimate speed properly) and angle of the bow. This last one refers to the angle of the bow from the target ship to you and not from you towards the target.

If you are directly left of the target then the angle of the bow is 270 degrees, meaning if you were on the bridge of the target what direction would you need to look in order to see your sub.

I got a flight sime buddy of mine hooked on subsims but he always confused the angle of the bow.

I still get confused by that :hmmm: :damn: :wah: :oops: <<< Range of emotions i go through playing this game

[SubHunter88]

I still get confused by that :hmmm: :damn: :wah: :oops: <<< Range of emotions i go through playing this game

haha i feel your pain. It took me a long time to adjust :D

[KiwiVenge]

As far as how to get a firing solution, there are several ways with varying degrees of realism.
When first gettign started, I would suggest the method described here-
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=163736

It is a 'manual' type method but with Maps Contacts on. It is no where near as hard as the manual method with Map Contacts off but is in my opinion a wonderful way how to go about it at first.
Hmm, after writing this I think i may of mentioned this in a previous post of yours, but not sure so will hit the submit reply just in case :)

[Moeceefus]

i recommend watching some youtube vids on the matter. there are a great many that are helpful

[kylania]

i recommend watching some youtube vids on the matter. there are a great many that are helpful

This is good advice no matter what the subject. :D

[tonyw]

Angle on Bow = The bearing a lookout on the target ship would call out if he spotted YOU

[Lord Justice]

Good heavens sir, i find this thread title somewhat, lets say, slight. :hmmm: Remarkable, good stuff all the same. :up: bye your leave.

[Westbroek]

Seriously, no need to beat yourself up over it. You've come to the right place... everyone loves talking about tactics and strategy here, so we won't let you be dumb for long :D

[YellowTailedNoob]

Ok, I was wrong. Your community is even more receptive, friendly and willing to help than flight sim!

Thanks Troop. I will take it all in and ask as I go.

Of course, the reciprocal applies. If anyone needs to know anything about flight simming, please ask!

Thanks Again, Y'All

Chip

[Sailor Steve]

Boy, am I dumb or what?

I'd say you fall into the 'Or what' category.:D

[IanC]

This is good advice no matter what the subject. :D

Hey that's true, I learned how to speak Russian on youtube... well key phrases anyways. :smug: :88)

[McBeck]

Greets Amigos!

Ok, sure, it took me a few years to more or less to 'master' the nuances of flight simulation. So, in my naivite', I figured SH would be easy to grasp. Wrong. In my defense (such as it is), I am approaching Sub Sims like I do Flight Sims. Do it right or don't bother doing it at all ....

I've been reading most of your posts, trying to absorb as much as I could the tonnage of information you all have graciously displayed for we noobs. Know what I got from those hours? I swear, before the lights went out, I heard a crew member say "Don't touch that! It will detonate a tor ..."

So, is there a tutorial anywhere, for SH 3, 4 or 5? One that starts from "Double click the shortcut on your desktop" and ends when it says something like "Better luck next time, you idiot".

I've been working at this, and still when I open any of the three sims, if I'm fortunate enough to find a target, I freeze and despite all the download/print/read/absorb of your individual tutorials (and thank you a ton for all your work - sorry I am unable to grasp it. Believe me, it is me, not you), I'm just not getting it. Perhaps I've missed the tutorial that starts with "How to find a target" and ends with "Say hello to Davy Jones". In very simple, small words.

Thanks Guys. As I've said before, you all are every bit as gracious and knowledgable as the Flight Sim community (which is really saying something), and I appreciate it!

Chip B.
OK...one step at a time..

You spot a ship...do you have your tactics in place so you know how to position yourself?

[YellowTailedNoob]

OK...one step at a time..

You spot a ship...do you have your tactics in place so you know how to position yourself?

Well, funny you should say that. Last night I was using SH4 on manual aim, on the Torpedo tutorial. By the time I had entered the info (I still cannot figure out how to find the catalog to identify the Japanese ship), and fired, I was well aft of the target with all 4 fish.

So, if I use the point and shoot (AKA cheating), I can hit the target. But actually entering the sim, not really, no. I usually cannot find any targets. Haven't yet figured out sonar, radar etc.

I'd appreciate hearing your instructions!

Thanks!
Chip

[magic452]

First off I use SH4 as an example. Never played 3 and haven't got 5 yet.
Double click the icon. When you get to the options screen set yourself easy options. No dud torpedoes, map contacts on, unlimited batteries and auto targeting on. The rest don't make too much difference. This is for the stock game.

Don't start a career but play one of the single missions, Hellcat is a good one to start as you have radar. Don't worry about completing the mission, you're playing this as a tutorial.

Go to an area like the Luzon strait and find a single target. Radar makes this easier. In the stock game there are plenty of targets in the strait, shouldn't have too much trouble finding one.
Set up a zigzag pattern and they will come to you.

Patrol the strait and work your way down towards Manila, stay about 15 to 20 miles off shore, your radar will pick up the targets at this range.
Patrol at 10 kt. on the surface but be prepared to dive if planes are picked up on radar.

Difference between and plane and ship is a plane will say "vary fast" when you click on the icon.
If you have limited fuel only travel at 10kt.

There is a shipping lane map posted some were,I'll see if I can find it.


Once you get a target on radar you will see a box with a tail, the tail will show the general heading of the ship. Mark an X on the box and start your stop watch. Wait 3 minutes and mark another X on the box, do this two or three times and you can get an accurate course of the target by drawing a line through all the X's. Measure the distance between the first two X's and you will get the target speed. 100 yard = 1 knot, 500 yd = 5 kt. 1000 yd =10 kt. You get the idea. Once you get this stuff save the game so you can try out different things. 3min 15 sec. for metric 100 meters = 1 kt. etc.

Remember I am using SH4, Fleetboats. Sh5 is complete different.
Once you have course and speed you can figure out where the ship is going and how soon it will get there. Stay on the surface and get far enough ahead to set up an approach to the ships course, you will want to be at least 10 miles ahead of the ship when on the surface. Use the ruler tool to measure the distance. Use flank speed if necessary.

Maneuver your boat so that you are about 1000 yd. off the target course and at about 90° angle or a little less. Go to periscope depth and wait for it to come to you. You are all set up for a good shot. This is the most important thing, as good set, up shooting is easy if you're in a good position.

Sonar will soon pick up the ship and you can follow it till it gets about 2500 yd. away. Put the scope up and identify the ship and lock on (L key)
Bring up the recognition manual (N key) and find the ship so you can set the torpedoes depth, for a big merchant about 17 feet is good. Set the depth on three fish and set them to high speed and contact pistols.
Open the torpedo doors. Q key

Save the game at this point so you can re-shoot if you miss.

With auto targeting when you get a green arrow pull the trigger. This will be about when the scope is about 15° before center (0°) for a 90° set up, and you will hit the middle of the target (MOT), unlock and aim at the forward mast and shoot again. If a big ship aim a third at the rear mast, she should go down.

If you're going to use manual targeting you already have the speed and the AoB, slightly less than 90°, so all you need is range and bearing.
You get this with the steadymeter.

Set speed on the right set of dials, the TDC, Click the speed button on the bottom right and set to whatever the 3 minute rule gave as speed. Click the red triangle to send to the TDC, the speed will show up on the left set of dials, the Position Keeper.

Next click o the AoB button the one in the center and turn the ship icon in the center to what the real ship looks like in the scope. You don't have to be perfect on this yet just close. Somewhat a little less than 90°. send this to the TDC with the red triangle. This takes some practice but you can get it very close in time.

Next click the range icon, on the left bottom and than click the left top icon to activate the Steadymeter. A ghost ship will appear above the real one and you lower it down to match the waterline of the ghost image to the top of the mast on the target. Click the mouse and you will get a range and bearing. Click the triangle again to send this to the TDC.

Turn on the position keeper with the red button, lower right.
Go to the attack map to check your firing solution.

You will see a white X and a line, the X is the torpedo impact point and the line will show the course the TDC has worked out for you. The X should be on the target icon and the line should march the course of the target.
The PK will follow the target and so you can see if you are off in some way, and you will be till you get some practice.
Adjust speed if the X moves ahead of or falls behind the target.
Adjust AoB if the white line doesn't match the ship icon.
Adjust the range if the X is off target. It's best to take a steadymeter reading just before firing. At 1000 yd. you don't have to be exactly on, very close is good enough.
The green line is the torpedo path to the target.

In stock you can adjust the gyro angle and see a second green line, it will move as you adjust gyro angle the (center dial on the PK) 1 or 2 degrees is enough to spread your torpedoes to hit different parts of the ship. Locked on the first will hit MOT, set gyro angle left 1 or 2 ° for the second shot and than right the same for the third.

This takes a bit of practice but you'll get it soon enough. That is why I suggested you save as soon as you get in a good position, so you can take some target practice.

As I said before this is for Fleetboats in SH4. Sh3 is some what similar but the periscope and TDC work a little differently in a u boat.
SH5 is complete different. You posted this in the SH5 thread but mentioned 3 and 4 so I went ahead and did the best I could for 4

As far as 5 is concerned I'd wait till they patch it and the modders have a chance to get things worked out. It will happen soon enough.
It's very pretty but game play is a bit "not so hot" IMO but there are lots of guys playing it and some serious modders working on it.

Give SH4 a try and you'll have a good time while you wait for 5 to get fixed.

Hope all this helps and good luck and good hunting which ever way you decide to go.

Magic

[YellowTailedNoob]

Thanks Magic!

This is what I need. I'll be running it tonight once I get home from the "real world" work.

You mention the steadymeter. I am unfamiliar with that, but will find and learn it.

Thanks to this community. It seems you all remember being a noob. Aces, you guys!

Chip

[Drifter]

I am approaching Sub Sims like I do Flight Sims.


A submarine is not an airplane. It doesn't have wings. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/icons/icon10.gif

[BigBANGtheory]

What I did and I suggest you do, is get your sub into a nice position relative to a target and save the game.

Then go back to your save and experiment with different options and tactics to get used to how it behaves e.g. TDC on/off, fire on bearing, firing when AoB is less than 90 degrees, at 90 degrees and greater than 90 degrees.

You'll screw it up at first but then you'll notice things like how the dots should line up in the TAI and the yellow track line for the torp so you get and idea when you've done the AoB correctly.

Then you can start switching the aids off and the realism on as you see fit.

[YellowTailedNoob]

Thanks - I've placed this on the agenda for tonight's cruise.

I will learn this sim, the right way.

Chip

[Hanomag]

Hi YTN ..Welcome Aboard Herr Kaluen!!! :arrgh!:

[McBeck]

Thanks - I've placed this on the agenda for tonight's cruise.

I will learn this sim, the right way.

Chip
Must suggestion is that you do not go for manual targeting to begin with, but use the simple mode. This way you can train your tactics and get a feel for the subs reaction to control.
Do you know how the simple mode works aka "connect the dots" ?

[YellowTailedNoob]

A submarine is not an airplane. It doesn't have wings. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/icons/icon10.gif

I'll be damned... You're RIGHT!

No wonder I can't fly the damn thing...

:88)

[Steeltrap]

You could argue dive planes are something like wings, but let's not.....

As for being 'stupid', you found this site, aren't afraid to ask questions AND admit what you don't know.

That's not stupid. You'll find this group pretty welcoming, although it's been a little narky with SH5's release.

Enjoy. I came here when SH2 was released and I've kept coming back (that's just over 9 years ago). There's NO other internet community about which I can say that.

When you'd like a break from learning, go check out the 'funny' threads in the differing SH-series threads. They're worth the price of admission alone!

Hang on, this place is free...

Cheers!

[kylania]

Thanks - I've placed this on the agenda for tonight's cruise.

I will learn this sim, the right way.

Chip

How'd the cruise end up? :) Any better luck this time?

[Nico09]

Thanks - I've placed this on the agenda for tonight's cruise.

I will learn this sim, the right way.

Chip


I don't know where your from but In the UK that could mean something totally different ;), but lets not go there shall we :O:

[YellowTailedNoob]

You could argue dive planes are something like wings, but let's not.....

As for being 'stupid', you found this site, aren't afraid to ask questions AND admit what you don't know.

That's not stupid. You'll find this group pretty welcoming, although it's been a little narky with SH5's release.

Enjoy. I came here when SH2 was released and I've kept coming back (that's just over 9 years ago). There's NO other internet community about which I can say that.

When you'd like a break from learning, go check out the 'funny' threads in the differing SH-series threads. They're worth the price of admission alone!

Hang on, this place is free...

Cheers!


Thanks Mate. This is an extraordinary group, and I'm very fortunate to have found the community. You guys do realize how different you are, right?

I'm getting there!

cb

[Sailor Steve]

I'll be damned... You're RIGHT!

No wonder I can't fly the damn thing...

:88)
But don't let that stop you from trying.:sunny:

One of my favorite stories is from the SH2-DC online days. One of the SH2 mods let the captain drive the boat like it was a plane. I objected on the grounds that SH2 alread gave the u-boat skippers too much of an advantage, and now they could race to periscope depth, use auto-targeting to throw out a spread of eels and be back at 200 meters before they even hit.

So one game the comm-bar showed a sub player cursing. What had happened was that he put his planes to full rise and started plotting something else. Like a plane the nose kept coming up until it was vertical, and then the game said everything had broken loose inside and he was dead!:rotfl2:

[7thSeal]

I swear, before the lights went out, I heard a crew member say "Don't touch that! It will detonate a tor ..."


Touch it... its how I learn. :har:

[McBeck]

I'll be damned... You're RIGHT!

No wonder I can't fly the damn thing...

:88)
Flying sub?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0CZNMtrhoM