Insane Small Arms

[McHub532]

So.. here I am on my way back to the Sub-pen and along strolls this lone freighter.

I line up for a shot out the aft because that's the only fish I have left. It goes out 200 feet and then stops (see previous post about torpedos not working even when duds turned off).

So.. I whirl around and bring it to the surface to shoot it out with them.

My guys are right on target and in short order the freighter is ablaze with fire.

The enemy get their wits about them and pull out their small arms and start shooting back.

Ting.. ting..

Two rounds hit and I instantly drop to 53% hull and have uncontrolled flooding.

WTF?

[SteamWake]

Next time stay out of their range ;)

Ive had this happen to me as well .. fear the merchants !

[McHub532]

Next time stay out of their range ;)

Ive had this happen to me as well .. fear the merchants !

I should have read the mission briefing better. Intelligence reports said that enemy merchant sailors are equipped with nuclear tipped rifle rounds.

:har:

[McHub532]

Made it back to the subpen.

I checked with my chief maintenance guy at the docks and he said he can't get ahold of any of those nuclear tipped rifle rounds for our guys.

Damn Allies !

[mcarlsonus]

My experience as well. Early in Campaign, MG rounds simply ricocheted off. Now, they can sink you!

Well, anyway, so much for conserving the WMD's, eh?? Sure, they may have, "Insane Small Arms," but if the Engineer's not TOO depressed, I can get, "INSANE SPEED AHEAD!"

[McHub532]

My experience as well. Early in Campaign, MG rounds simply ricocheted off. Now, they can sink you!

Well, anyway, so much for conserving the WMD's, eh?? Sure, they may have, "Insane Small Arms," but if the Engineer's not TOO depressed, I can get, "INSANE SPEED AHEAD!"

Watchman calls down the hatch into the conning tower, "Captain! They're using Ludicrous Ammo!"
I scream back, "Clear the Deck! All Below! Dive... Dive.. Dive!"

[mcarlsonus]

to which everyone screams back, "can't submerge now as SOME people are either too stupid or too morale-challenged to heed the alarm and come inside"

What was the command in Spaceballs (an otherwise cruddy movie, by the by!)? Was that, "Ludicrous Speed?"

[SteamWake]

"Feel the power of the schwartz !" :haha:

[McHub532]

to which everyone screams back, "can't submerge now as SOME people are either too stupid or too morale-challenged to heed the alarm and come inside"

What was the command in Spaceballs (an otherwise cruddy movie, by the by!)? Was that, "Ludicrous Speed?"

Yeah, Ludicrous Speed. :yeah:

[mcarlsonus]

"Feel the power of the schwartz !" :haha:

OH! Spaceballs trivia ! What was the President's name?


"Skroob" - an anagram for, "Brooks!"

[Westbroek]

"Just what we needed.... A Druish Princess."

[gimpy117]

hand cannons anybody? those are like 40mm pom poms on some of those ships.

but still i think a destroyer does less damage

[mobucks]

Kinda hard to tell when they open up with everything they have at once, but some of those small arms fire are actually deck guns. Funny thread though, i love spaceballs!

[KiwiVenge]

I have been finding if you get right in behind the merchant (his 6 o'clock) and then open up with the deck gun once you are as close as you can get without being spotted by him works well. They seem to not bring near as many guns to bear on you from that angle and the few they do have little chance of hitting you.
Works really well at night because you can get in so close and you can sink him so fast.

[Nisgeis]

Whilst 'testing' I got strafed by three Mk.1 Hurricanes - they reduced my hull intergirty to 0 in no time at all. They use machine guns, I imagine.

[Hartmann]

Whilst 'testing' I got strafed by three Mk.1 Hurricanes - they reduced my hull intergirty to 0 in no time at all. They use machine guns, I imagine.

Are you sure that are hurricanes ?? there are rumors in BDU about the use of A-10 and Gau 8 Avenger gattling guns in antisubmarine patrols and in merchants :har:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/bild-gau8-02.jpg

[gimpy117]

Are you sure those were hurricanes?? I suspect the royal navy may have brought back the mighty Catafark :arrgh!:

[HundertzehnGustav]

So.. here I am on my way back to the Sub-pen and along strolls this lone freighter.

I line up for a shot out the aft because that's the only fish I have left. It goes out 200 feet and then stops (see previous post about torpedos not working even when duds turned off).

So.. I whirl around and bring it to the surface to shoot it out with them.

My guys are right on target and in short order the freighter is ablaze with fire.

The enemy get their wits about them and pull out their small arms and start shooting back.

Ting.. ting..

Two rounds hit and I instantly drop to 53% hull and have uncontrolled flooding.

WTF?


small arms?
you call a Bofors
http://armygear.org/images/m-Bofors-LAA.jpg
and an Oerlikon

http://bcoy1cpb.pacdat.net/Oerlikon_20mm_GAI-CO3_AA_gun_with_text_jpg.jpg
small arms?

small arms is rifles and handheld Machineguns...


Of course you are sposed to be diving when the enemy is shooting bullets at you that are as large as golfballs.

Dude!:damn::damn::damn:

thats not their captain shooting his smith and wesson .38 at you... or some sailor with a tommy gun...

[Westbroek]

No one wants to be on the bridge when banana sized bullets are whizzing at them. Diving seems natural to me.

[SteamWake]

The trick with the merchants as I said before is to just stay outside of their 'spotting' range the magical grey circle. They stop firing once you leave that and your spotting range is much greater espically at night.

You can easly out range them.

Planes might be a different matter :haha:

[captainprid]

I hope this is resolved with the new patch because it is ludicrous. Destroyers 4" shells cause damage whereas a merchant man with an untrained crew can instantly sink a sub with small arms fire......Please sort it now!!!

[HundertzehnGustav]

THAT **** AINT SMALL ARMS FIRE god dammit.


you complain about realism...
but do not realize that a real sub commander would NEVER surface and dish it out with anything armed... in the very very first place!

Its YOU that is acting uunrealistic, and your only defense is "bofors shells make my unarmored, vulnerable sub go boom, whine whine whine"

Dude get a grip! use your torpedoes, and the deck guns on unarmed ships only!

[Westbroek]

HundertzehnGustav:
you complain about realism...
but do not realize that a real sub commander would NEVER surface and dish it out with anything armed... in the very very first place!

Its YOU that is acting uunrealistic, and your only defense is "bofors shells make my unarmored, vulnerable sub go boom, whine whine whine"

Dude get a grip! use your torpedoes, and the deck guns on unarmed ships only!

hmm...perhaps a little heavy handed. But true nonetheless...

[Noren]

Hah! getting that close would allow the enemies to use whatever close arms they could find, including handgrenades and TNT!

Heck, even a colt 45 could ravage the con tower at that distance :D

[mcarlsonus]

...(shoot at) unarmed ships only!

This becomes more difficult later in the Campaign as one tends to run into large convoys as opposed to single shipping or same in small groups. As soon as a sub's presence is revealed, these Convoy guys tend to react in a, "chicken with its head off" fashion and one invariably becomes exposed to some Q-ship type or two with gunners world-renowned for their prowess. It IS something that's unrealistic, the likes of which I, for one, never experienced in SH3 or 4 - or, for that matter, in World War 2 because I'm a vampire and I was THERE ! - or maybe I'm just a member of the Rolling Stones...

But, I digress...

No shipborne artillery fires rounds at the rapid rate portrayed - and verified by tracers! GOTTA be MG. MG may be hell on carbon-based units, but weren't much of a threat against carbon steel surfaces hardened sufficiently to routinely dive to 450 feet or more on a regular basis!

Er, viewing the business end of an A-10 above, I'm prompted to revise: "No shipborne artillery fires rounds at the rapid rate portrayed..." except a Phalanx CIWS and that doesn't use tracers either!

[Bilge_Rat]

No shipborne artillery fires rounds at the rapid rate portrayed - and verified by tracers! GOTTA be MG. MG may be hell on carbon-based units, but weren't much of a threat against carbon steel surfaces hardened sufficiently to routinely dive to 450 feet or more on a regular basis!

Er, viewing the business end of an A-10 above, I'm prompted to revise: "No shipborne artillery fires rounds at the rapid rate portrayed..." except a Phalanx CIWS and that doesn't use tracers either!

remember that pressure hulls and the outer hull were not armoured. Even .50 caliber bullets could punch holes in the ballast tanks and do enough damage to prevent the U-Boat from safely diving, basically a death sentence. No U-Boat skippers would take a chance like that.

[Kptlt_Lynch]

Truth be told.... small arms are handheld weapons. Whoever coined the term that a Bofors is 'small arms' is wee bit off the mark.

AA weaponry can chew up a truck to a smoldering hulk in seconds. Nevermind turning your pressure hull into swiss cheeze.

[mcarlsonus]

remember that pressure hulls and the outer hull were not armoured. Even .50 caliber bullets could punch holes in the ballast tanks and do enough damage to prevent the U-Boat from safely diving, basically a death sentence. No U-Boat skippers would take a chance like that.

Certainly possible, but hitting a ballast tank on a vintage boat would be a great shot indeed! There's a thinner, second shell covering those tanks when the sub's surfaced. One would have to pop one right through a limber hole to have an effect and, yes, that could do some damage as the majority of the ballast tank's strength was dependent on the pressure exerted against the sides when filled. In a surfaced boat, the tanks, with the possible exceptions of the Safety and Reserve would likely be empty.

[raymond6751]

I think the term 'small arms' is being misinterpreted here. The merchants were armed with 50 cal machine guns, naval deck guns, and some AA guns, probably 20 mm. Few had all of them.

The DEV guys probably didn't write code for each type of merchant to have specific types of weapons. The lesson is - don't get close. The subs that have holes in them leak.

The planes carried multiple machine guns and likely cannon too.

What we need is an ability to repair a percentage of hull damage at sea, such as plugging bullet/cannon holes up to say...70% or something.

Still, best not to engage in a shoot-out. The real subs did get shot up. The enclosed video disk in the N. American market had details of a US sub that was badly shot up by surface weapons.

[HundertzehnGustav]

In a surfaced boat, the tanks, with the possible exceptions of the Safety and Reserve would likely be empty.
@mcarlson
you sail on the surface, along thei irish coast right smack in the middle of the warzone...
but left from Brest... does that automatically mean your tanks are empty?

In general re SH tracers:
Tracers: every shot fired in SHIII is a "tracer shot" be that aaa or other gun or cannonfire. i "suppose" this has been kept the same in SHV.

therefor, to be realistic, one would need to make only one third or less of the shels "tracer shells" work for the Mod gurus.

its the same in other games and i suppose this: 100% tracers from a cargo ship, its just a hollywood effect, not a handheld machinegun.

You wanna know for sure whats happening in SHV?
go to the outside view and check the source of the tracer...and tell me what do you see? an oerlikon. a Bofors or worse... sometimes in a double or quad mount.
not some drunk russki sailor with a PPSH41...:D bravely protecting the murmansk convoy.
or a Yankee witha grease gun... or a tommy gun... or an M1...
go check for yourself!

I mean like... even IF it COULD have been a "rifle caliber weapon":
as a Kaleun, knowing i am tracking a potentially ammo carrying ship...
on that ship can be anything from grenades, Guns, Pistols, Submachineguns, Machineguns on a mount, bazookas, flamethrowers... AA guns antitank Guns, Howitzers, Mortars...
and there ALWAYS are instructions how to use them, and i know for shure the sailors can read!

Sailors of the world are no sissies... never have been, never will. they are no bureaucrats, and by all means known for their "hands-on" approach. Having a pistol, a Machinegun ready to use in hostile waters... might just be normal for those people.

Do i put my sub, my crew close to that ship?
If so, you better be shot back at base.... or transfer to the Navy, asking to command a corvette!

subs= sub+stealth+caution.

danger from the deep, not battling on the surface. always.