How do you go about attacking a convoy?

[Nisgeis]

I'm looking for a bit of general information on the way people prosecute attacks on convoys in SH5 or SH3. What you do, what you don't do etcetera. Do you end around and dive along their track and wait submerged for them to steam over you? Do you stalk them until night and then try to work your way into the convoys surfaced from astern? How do you attack yours?

[robbo180265]

Assuming that I can get into position, I tend to wait for them to come to me. I dive to let the lead destroyer sail over the top using the scope to make sure. From then on I wait till the merchants are within range - loose a few eels, normaly 1 per ship (not looking to sink , but wound).

I then dive under the convoy and try to stay under it whilst reloading - I figure that the ships above should mask sounds from the sub - plus it makes it difficult for the destroyers to get a clear run.

Rinse and repeat.

Afterwards (when safe) I come up to the surface and hunt the stragglers and wounded ships with the deck gun.

[mcarlsonus]

end arounds - I hate having to shoot at something moving away from me! After one hit, merchants, tankers, etc., begin to behave erratically. A well-placed shot from astern has a longer run time, thus giving the target the opportunity to maneuver out of position (even at short distances!) SH5 merchies (unrealistically) turn on a dime ("and give you five cents change").

Deck gun? Can't use any longer as freighter/oiler gunners are deadeye killer marksmen! If this astounding firing acumen had any basis in fact, the U-Boat portion of the War in the North Atlantic would've been over before the end of '41!

[kylania]

Sounds like I do the same. Try to get ahead of a convoy and wait for them. Now, with map contacts on I wait between the first and second columns. I'll set my TDC and get my scope in position (usually 10-20 degrees off center). Then as the ranks pass that point I'll fire. What happens is I'll end up hitting four ranks of ships essentially simultaneously. I'll also hit the one behind me with tube V. Depending on the reaction of the escorts I'll either just sit there and reload, repeating the process with the 3rd or 4th rank of ships, or I'll dive to 100m or so and start to slowly exit the convoy to the rear.

Once I'm confident that the escorts have left, I'll come to periscope depth and finish off the wounded ships or if it's really clear I'll surface and finish off with the deck gun.

With map contacts off I'm not confident enough judge my position inside the convoy, so I'll attack from 1km to the side or so.

Night surface attacks I've tried once, and it was pretty cool, but if it's not foggy enough it's really dangerous I've found, so I tend to not do them that often.

[Nisgeis]

Thanks for the responses so far guys.
end arounds

How do you exit - try to get out at the rear of the convoy?

[Westbroek]

Go as deep as the sea bed permits and make 2-3 knots (depending on battery) in the opposite direction of the convoy. Destroyers will be looking for you like crazy once the convoy is past you, but if you're patient, they'll give up.
...unless you're using Ducimus' AI mod, in which case, you should have stayed in port :)

[mcarlsonus]

Thanks for the responses so far guys.


How do you exit - try to get out at the rear of the convoy?

Before or after the attack?

Before - the, "end around" part:
Stay outside the escort or merchant detection ring(s) (inner is visual range, outer yellow represents passive sonar and red is active sonar? Is that right, guys?), flank speed, move away from convoy JUST a smidge outside detection range, gradually increase turn to parallel their course, then begin to close submerging only when it's clear one will be able to get into decent position before the target gets in front of you at more than, say, 800 meters. CAREFUL - the faster one goes, the greater the possibility you'll be seen and attacked!

After - eluding DD's, hostile Ski-Doos, rabid environmentalists and eco-terrorists:
Go down to at least 20m/66ft, at, "Run 1" ("dead slow"). Don't rely on pinging to determine distance from hostiles as the sounds don't vary much in SH5. Pings, depth charge explosions sound the same both when they're close or even moderately far away. Watch hydrophone lines to get an idea of where they're looking about and see if they're looking for you in all the wrong places. Move along the noise lines presenting as little of yourself to the hunters as possible (move along the lines like they were courses!). Before you've decided it's safe to come up, first, come to periscope depth and look around! One thing done well in SH5 is, "lurkers." This'll be a DD/DE sitting quietly not far from you, making little headway, with its searchlights off, all active detection systems "off," patiently waiting for you to come bobbing up like a cork...at which point, most assuredly, you will die!

[mcarlsonus]

Disregard my previous if using Ducimus' mod. In that case, abandon all hope...

[robbo180265]

Completely right about Ducimus's AI mod - tried it once , too hard for me lol.

I normally head out towards the back of the convoy , unless the destroyers are actively looking for me - in which case a lot of the time I'll go deep and wait it out.

[mcarlsonus]

I mostly just try to, "split the arc evenly" on the hydrophone lines...

[Capt_Sluggo]

Disclaimer: Dangerous! Bring your evasion A-game because they are going to know where you are, and make sure FIRST that your crew have the skill upgrades to get you to 150 meters in a big hurry.

I am usually cautious and deliberate, using the tactics described in the thread entries below. They will keep you alive. But every once in a while an outrageous approach can work, too.

If the environmental factors are right and the convoy ships are not spaced too far apart, you might invest some time in studying what the lead destroyer is doing. Maybe he is predictable and runs a little too close to the convoy. Maybe the flanking escorts are flanking a little too far out.

If the lead escort is close enough to the convoy and if you can approach sufficient for a sure hit (electric eel preferred of course), nail the lead destroyer and send the convoy into a panic. Turn immediately and head flank speed into the oncoming herd. By the time the other escorts can get to you, it's as robbo states earlier - the disarrayed traffic "makes it difficult for the destroyers to get a clear run." If you are lucky, you will have a couple of minutes to run amok, picking off the fattest sheep! Sometimes the panic produces gift shots that you would never have seen otherwise. Sometimes the other destroyers have stupid captains, it's rare but it happens. Then again, things might not go your way. Call it off fast and crash dive, with naught more than empty tubes and hopefully a whole boat to show for the effort.

Regardless of outcome it makes for sweaty-palmed, fast-paced excitement because you just never know exactly what the sheep and the remaining escorts are going to do or how quickly. And it tests your ability to stay ahead of a very rapidly changing combat situation.

America's leading sub ace of WWII, MOH winner Richard O'Kane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_O%27Kane), used a similar "rush the convoy" tactic with the USS Tang and got some great results. His audacious style was the inspiration for my Silent Hunter adaptation and all credit goes to him, of course.

Good hunting!

:arrgh!:

[Kptlt_Lynch]

Lie in wait ahead, track multiple ships, calculate shots, manuver to a 90deg position... usually within one of the outside lines.

Fire, and dive.

I have however, in a moment of insanity (& too much coffee), surfaced and manned the deckgun in the middle of the convoy and driven though it like a rally driver all the time firing at ships. Escorts started firing, hitting their own ships while I weaved in and out of the traffic riuning their solution on me. Not advisable, but fun for a few minutes!

[Ducimus]

Yeah i think im gonna pull that AI mod down. People complained about stupid AI, well, i hit it's sensors with a sledgehammer and got it to do something alright. Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it. :arrgh!: I for one, can "thread the needle" very well. :know:

On topic, I always do end arounds, but If i attack on the surface or submerged depends on the lighting conditions when i've overtaken the convoy. I typically don't wait for dark, im aggressive and impatient. I attack. Period. The only time i'll wait for dark is if its only a couple hours away, and then i'll make the most of it.

If i do a periscope attack, i'll close to 2000 to 2400 meters, at a diagnal from the head of the convoy so i get overlapping targets. This position allows me to avoid the lead escort, and get inside the escort flanking the convoy. I'll fire two, 2-fish salvos, time them so they hit at the same time, and start going deep. Infact, im already ordering deeper before the last fish has left the tube. By the time the fish hit, and the escorts start looking around, ill be in the cellar, creeping away from the convoy at 2 kts, and in the process of pointing my stern at them to give less ping surface. Half the time, they don't find me.

If on the surface, ill approach the convoy in roughly the same way except ill turn around and fire my stern tubes at the ship in the closet column on my way out.the important thing is to keep your speed low until your leaving, and mind your aspect to destroyers. Often, ill pull off 3 or 4 surface attacks in one night. When reloading, ill pull off to the convoys flank, but keep ahead of them until reloads are done, then come in again. I usually don't stop until i run out of fish, targets, or am forced to dive.

[ERPP8]

I'm looking for a bit of general information on the way people prosecute attacks on convoys in SH5 or SH3. What you do, what you don't do etcetera. Do you end around and dive along their track and wait submerged for them to steam over you? Do you stalk them until night and then try to work your way into the convoys surfaced from astern? How do you attack yours?
I have many strategies.
4 for merchants, two for destroyers.
Merchants:
1. I catch up to them and sink them with guns.
2. I catch up and use torps and guns.
3. In small convoys I use torps to sink the escorts and surface sink them with guns and/or torps.
4. They have too many escorts and I use just torps from underwater.

Destroyers:
1. I intercept their path then submerge.
2. I pass them and get into their path.

[mcarlsonus]

Lie in wait ahead, track multiple ships, calculate shots, manuver to a 90deg position... usually within one of the outside lines.

Fire, and dive.

I have however, in a moment of insanity (& too much coffee), surfaced and manned the deckgun in the middle of the convoy and driven though it like a rally driver all the time firing at ships. Escorts started firing, hitting their own ships while I weaved in and out of the traffic riuning their solution on me. Not advisable, but fun for a few minutes!

Kapitanlieutenant Lynch: If those MERCHANT gunners had gotten a bead on you, you'd be colder'n a mackeral in no time! AGAIN we have part of the proof that, in SH5, commercial shipping is FAR more dangerous to surface-running Untersee Boots than military pros!

[Westbroek]

Ducimus!
Don't take it down! The way I see it, the argument that exists for mods like Lorka's arcadey creations hold true to your AI mods as well ie. the more options available the better. I (perhaps masochistically) enjoy getting depth charged mercilessly and it absolutely makes a great challenge.
I can atest that it is, in fact, not at all impossible to escape escorts using your difficult ai mod. You just really have to be on your A game and have everything work out in your favor. Being prepared beforehand is more important than the actions you take after the attack, which is pretty realistic.
People should have the option to really defy the odds! :rock:

[Westbroek]

Question: to continue the discussion regarding tactics:
What is everyone's standard practice regarding torpedo speed. When is it ideal to use fast/medium/slow torpedos on merchant ships? What do you most commonly use?
Cheers

[Ducimus]

What is everyone's standard practice regarding torpedo speed. When is it ideal to use fast/medium/slow torpedos on merchant ships? What do you most commonly use?
Cheers

I always use fast, unless i have a reason not to.
Reasons not to:

- I need a delay so i can have more time to depart my present location before torpedo hits.

- I need a delay to time my salvos to hit at same time.

- Too far away from a fast moving target, this is my one shot at it and I Need more range on the fish, trade off is, im firing MUCH sooner to compensate.

[Nisgeis]

Great, it seems that most people try to get inside the escort screen and inside at least the first column of merchants and then escape through the rear, or try to reload within the convoy. Much more daring than the escorts give you credit for. I'm reading 'Captain Gilbert Roberts R.N. and the Anti U-boat School and I wanted to see how players tactics matched up with actual U-boat tactics. Thanks for the responses.

As for torpedoes, I use the fast setting and fire from as close as I can get to, to minimise errors.

[mcarlsonus]

Question: to continue the discussion regarding tactics:
What is everyone's standard practice regarding torpedo speed. When is it ideal to use fast/medium/slow torpedos on merchant ships? What do you most commonly use?
Cheers

Always FAST and only dial down when I need range. However, I've rarely hit anything at more than 1.5 km anyway, so I hardly ever bother trying...

...and the electrics are truly icky...

[robbo180265]

Question: to continue the discussion regarding tactics:
What is everyone's standard practice regarding torpedo speed. When is it ideal to use fast/medium/slow torpedos on merchant ships? What do you most commonly use?
Cheers

If the weather isn't too bad - I.E. I can make out the targets without the waves getting in the way, and if I'm close enough - then I set to slow to enable me more time to engage the targets and get out of the way afterwards.

[Maus]

Sorry for the necropost.

Are the convoy escorts actively searching while you are stalking? Would it be possible to attach from a submerged position within the convoy to hit the lead ship in each column?

Can the sub be manuvered into the wake of a merchant to mask the sub, either prior to or after the attack?

I am just thinking out loud.

[oscar19681]

go ahead of the convoi , hang m on peri depth and let the torpedos go!!!

[robbo180265]

Yeah - have a look back through this thread , some damn fine tactics here.
Also check out the SH3 forums for convoy attack tactics - some damn good ones there too:up: