Bee Attack !!

[McHub532]

I just took down this battleship that was surrounded by 12 escorts.

I'm now at 175 meters, silent running with all 12 swarming over me. I've slipped 27 km's away from the sunken hulk of the battleship and they just won't leave me. My CO2 level is climbing above safe levels and I can't shake these Bass-Tirds. Argh!

Edit:
Gack... at 25% CO2 now.

[Sailor Steve]

Tell us how your next career starts out.:rotfl2:

[McHub532]

I've got the men writting letters home and putting them in zip-lock bags right now. :)

[Ducimus]

Umm..

If you have any skill points left over, invest in that CO2 passive skill. Even if you don't, if the game holds true to Sh3/Sh4, your not dead tell it hits 99%.

Conserve your battery by traveling at 1 or 2 kts max, head for deeper water, and try surfacing at dark. If the planes are still there when you surface, risk it anyway, they might not spot you, and you really have no choice regardless. So surface, Delay the battery charge, man the flak gun (edit: DO NOT fire unless attacked), and head out of there at all possible speed to clear the area.

[McHub532]

Awesome Ducimus.. I'll do exactly that.

[McHub532]

6 of the escorts have broken off.
6 still taking turns dropping cans well above my position.

Now 50 km's from the original battleship attack.

Okay.. heading to the surface now for a gulp of fresh air.. it's dark outside (sucks it's so nice (weather) out though).. wish me luck.

[Ducimus]

:hmmm: Are you talking 12 planes or 12 destroyers? :haha:

Im confused.

[Onkel Neal]

You only have to surface for a minute to reduce your CO2 level! :up:

[McHub532]

Destroyers

[kylania]

Good luck down there!

[McHub532]

Crap... just pushed ESC to reload game.

I surfaced without pushing the CO2 (button).
I pushed 's' for surface.
I forgot about the old bug.

I got to the surface and the CO2 level did not clear and would not.. then I was swarmed.

[Apache312]

I assume you are running silent while trying to slip away...right? If all else fails, surface as long as you can, run at flank, while keeping your profile as small as possible, and prepare to dive. Perhaps you can get some air in the boat during the meantime.

/S

Apache312

[Harmsway!]

Hope for a moonless night.

[Ducimus]

>>Destroyers

Oh, well that changes EVERYTHING.

Variables in order to make up a proper plan of attack are:
- Time tell dark
- fog/rain conditions
- sea state
- battery remaining
- distance to and position of destroyers

[McHub532]

Awesome.. had a 'saved game' after the sinking of the battleship... will try this again; this time I'll push the CO2 button when I HAVE to come up for air.

[Ducimus]

Don't ALT Tab. The CO2 bug is a legacy issue from SH4. I can't prove it, but its my beleif that alt tabbing while submerged is the leading cause of it. I have never encountered the bug, but i don't alt tab the game whlie playing either.

[McHub532]

>>Destroyers

Oh, well that changes EVERYTHING.

Variables in order to make up a proper plan of attack are:
- Time tell dark
- fog/rain conditions
- sea state
- battery remaining
- distance to and position of destroyers

19:41 hours (dark)
Perfect weather (no rain or fog)
Calm waters
41% battery
Distance to detroyers is 181 feet straight up (circling).

[McHub532]

DOH !

At reload of the game the battleship is on the surface and I did not get 'credit' for the sinking.

Oh well.. might as well reload from before the task force being encountered.. now I'm just going through the pain of a 6 hour depth charge for no reason.

:DL

You guys are awesome for helping me though.

Ducimus.. please give suggestion though anyway; so I learn and can try what you say next time.

[gutted]

Wait till night time.

Pop up to decks awash depth (~8m) if you are atleast 3000-4000m away. Should be high enough to replinish the CO2. And you can drive on your diesels.

If they dont spot you, drive away at that depth at half speed until you are ~8000m away then surface and run for it at flank speed.

Worth a shot. I've closed to nearly 1000m at night time on a few occcasions vs. a patrolling escort at decks awash. But he wasn't alert.. so its probably not the same.

[Ducimus]

19:41 hours (dark)
Perfect weather (no rain or fog)
Calm waters
41% battery
Distance to detroyers is 181 feet straight up (circling).

Thats bad. You can't go any deeper. Your probably being pinged, and you can't count on the sea to mask your noise.

(Just FYI: if your running one of my first AI sensor tweaks for SH5, toss it out, )

You need to gain im guessing at least 2000 meters distance from them (given Sh5's night time adustments) before you can surface in the dark. If you can surface undetected at that range, your odds of survival go way up. They're pretty much blind at night.

But your low on battery, and the sea is OPTIMAL sonar conditions. As is visiblity conditions except for the light.. which is the ONLY thing in your favor right now.

I see two choices: creep at 1 kt, or creep at 2-3 kts and hope they can't hear it. The faster you go the quicker you'll get some distance, and get out from under their active sonar, but also it increases your noise. If you creep around at 1 kt you might get some distance if they really don't have a good fix on you, but it will take a long damn time. Something which you may not have depending on O2 conditions, battery and time to dawn.

it's gamble either way, but your situation is not good.

[Onkel Neal]

Look, pick out 15 of the crew that don't laugh at your jokes, and get the other 25 to throttle them.

That, or have the cook make some "special" stew.....

[McHub532]

This is a good tactics discussion now....

Given the conditions... would most of you have taken the shot on the battleship anyway? Knowing you'd have 12 destroyers all over you... calm sea conditions, perfectly clear weather? ?

My problem was that they were pinging me 2-3 at a time; it was like I was in a metal drum and they were banging it with hammers. 1 knot or 2-3 knots made no difference because they kept right over top of me. I attempted going even deeper but got the warning that I was going too deep and came back up to 171 meters.

Regardless.. amazingly exciting.

[Westbroek]

Yeah take the shot! :rock:
We're not out there to play it safe, we gotta disrupt the war effort, right?
If you have a capital ship in sight and locked, I don't care if they have the entire navy over head, they ought to know you were there... even if that means they watch a few missed torpedos streak past. :D
But yeah, make ships sink til you can't stay buoyant yourself.

[Ducimus]

My problem was that they were pinging me 2-3 at a time; it was like I was in a metal drum and they were banging it with hammers. 1 knot or 2-3 knots made no difference because they kept right over top of me. I attempted going even deeper but got the warning that I was going too deep and came back up to 171 meters.


When you have that many, your never going to ditch being pinged. You can't get a favorable aspect on all of them. They'll always be somebody who will get your broadsides with their sonar. Best you can try to do, is keep most of them behind you. A general indicator that your leaving the gaggle of them. Only problem with that is you can't hear them over the sound of your own screws. So if they come up your backsides, you'll have little warning.

Depending on the boat, i would have pushed it deeper. Certainly not a 7A though, it cracks much sooner. regardless of sub type, 200 meters is about as deep as you can go before you run into boyancy keeping issues.

All told, i think, given the boat is low on oxygen, and batteries, i think id try and clear the area as quick as i could before things starting running out on me, surface, and do a flank speed dash. That means a 2 or 3 kt creep and a depth of 198 meters and try and keep the destroyers in my baffles if at all possible, constantly checking my hydrophones. Odds of survival are really not very good, but that would be my best shot.

[McHub532]

I reloaded from several game-days before and after 15 days I'm almost out of fuel so I start heading back home for fuel knowing I won't get the 'mission' objectives before March 1 (sigh).

What do I stumble across... the EXACT same sitution... 1 battleship and 12 destroyers.

This time I was able to take down the battleship and they never locked on with sonar quick enough before I got deep... they're drifting off and have no idea where I am at.

I just hope I can get back home now with the fuel I have left. :)

[Westbroek]

Go to standard propulsion so you don't waste precious diesel on charging your batteries. You can make it!

[gimpy117]

what mods do you have on and what year is it? sounds like you've run into uber escorts!

[BerntBalchen]

Silly question but what about your decoys? They have saved me many a times. :)

[mcarlsonus]

As Ducimus says, stay in the baffles if at all possible. In other words find the nearest contact hydrophone line and move along that path directly away as much as possible. Keep the narrowest profile toward the enemy either submerged, or running on the surface! Second, "BerntBalchen" 's decoy suggestion - "Y" on you keyboard. Even though decoys are not shown as available on the load-out screen, I've still been able to launch them, but don't know it they work. Do they? I've just started 1942 and they're still unavailable from the guy from New Jersey who hangs out outside the port, "odd" bar with the guy wearing his best uniform. Also, as mentioned, moon position/phase. Is visibility, or lack of same, a factor?

What mods are you running anyway?

"A furore Normannorum libera nos, Domine" courtesy of the Historia Norvegiae or Orkneyinga Saga? I remember those days well! When we weren't fighting off sabre-tooth tigers and addled mastodons, it was those da*ned Vikings!

[McHub532]

I made it safely home... with like 11% fuel remaining.. WooHoo!
Time to hit the gaust haus for some chessa(sp) schnitzel and bitburger.

[McHub532]

Silly question but what about your decoys? They have saved me many a times. :)

It's only the end of February 1940 for me.. no decoys yet.

[mcarlsonus]

...beer's on me! Cheers, Mate! ...I'll be at the salad bar....NOT!

[Nordmann]

I made it safely home... with like 11% fuel remaining.. WooHoo!
Time to hit the gaust haus for some chessa(sp) schnitzel and bitburger.

Now that's what's called a close shave. Good work though, not exactly the easiest of situations, but worth it in the end.

What was the tonnage on that battleship?

[Westbroek]

I'm buying you a weiss-wurst right now. Mmm, hot, fresh, and pale... incidentally just how you like your women too.
Welcome home! :salute:
And do tell, what ship was it? What was the tonnage?

[McHub532]

What was the tonnage on that battleship?

February 29, 1940, 02:31
Long 8°55' W, Lat 59°50'N
Ship Sunk! Queen Elizabeth Battleship,
31000 tons

Wowza! I ended up with 8 enhancement points after that. I maxed out my Lamas Breathing techniques to conserve oxygen and then trained my guy in the stern to reload weapons faster.

[Nordmann]

Damn, that's a whole lot of tonnage right there! Great work!

[Westbroek]

Nice one! Churchill will hear about that for sure!:woot:

[captainprid]

Sounds like a lot of fun. I never get DD to chase me!!:damn:

Incidentally, where was the battleship???

[BerntBalchen]

It's only the end of February 1940 for me.. no decoys yet.

Wierd, i have and im still in 1939. Dont have any mode or anything for that. :)

[Zedi]

Is this SH5 or SH3?!

In SH5 I never had the honor to be chased by any escorts while I was under 30 m depth, even with AI improvement mods. This story must be happening in SH3.. right? :P

[SteamWake]

I assume you are running silent while trying to slip away...right? If all else fails, surface as long as you can, run at flank, while keeping your profile as small as possible, and prepare to dive. Perhaps you can get some air in the boat during the meantime.

/S

Apache312

Evidently the ventilation on these boats is amazing as it only takes a few seconds. :up:

[Westbroek]

They're high-tech, hard top-convertible submarines... just open the top, take a nice ride and there you go.

[msxyz]

So I take thermoclines are not correctly implemented? :06:

If you are below 150 meters chances are you crossed at least one and you should be partially shielded from the high frequency active sonars.

[robbo180265]

So I take thermoclines are not correctly implemented? :06:

If you are below 150 meters chances are you crossed at least one and you should be partially shielded from the high frequency active sonars.

I'll start by saying that I could be wrong....

But didn't I read somewhere that the thermoclines are a lot deeper in the Atlantic? Too deep to make a real difference?

[Bilge_Rat]

Given the conditions... would most of you have taken the shot on the battleship anyway? Knowing you'd have 12 destroyers all over you... calm sea conditions, perfectly clear weather? ?



hard to say, sometimes the smart decision is not to take the shot and slink away to fight another day, especially if you think the chances that you will be killed are greater than what the potential target is worth.

However, if you have a good shot at a battleship, the logical decision is to shoot. One U-Boat w. 44 men for One battleship w. 2,000 men is a good trade...

...as skipper, you have to make the call. They dont pay you just to make the easy decisions. :arrgh!:

[Bilge_Rat]

I'll start by saying that I could be wrong....

But didn't I read somewhere that the thermoclines are a lot deeper in the Atlantic? Too deep to make a real difference?

there is a game issue and a RL issue. In the game, you have a thermal layer and it works as in SH3/4.

In RL, thermal layers in the Atlantic are usually too deep to be used by a WW2 submarine.

However, given the very basic underwater sound propagation model used in the SH series (DW is the only subsim I know that has a decent one), I see the thermal layer as just adding a bit of that missing complexity.

[kylania]

(DW is the only subsim I know that has a decent one)

I just picked up DW the other day. I'm so confused! :oops::cry:

[Bilge_Rat]

I just picked up DW the other day. I'm so confused! :oops::cry:

good choice, great subsim.:up:

I wasted many hours on Jane's 688iHK/SC/DW.

At start, best to play with the Seawolf and use full auto-crew, until you get the hang of it.

[McHub532]

Is this SH5 or SH3?!

In SH5 I never had the honor to be chased by any escorts while I was under 30 m depth, even with AI improvement mods. This story must be happening in SH3.. right? :P

SH5; that's why I posted in the SH5 board.

[msxyz]

I'll start by saying that I could be wrong....

But didn't I read somewhere that the thermoclines are a lot deeper in the Atlantic? Too deep to make a real difference?

In the northern Atlantic, thermoclines are almost non existent as the outside temperature is too low.

In the temperate regions, they become deeper during summer and shallower (and the transition is less step) during winters. At least this is what I remember. But I may be wrong.

Thermoclines are useless when it comes to shielding low frequency noises produced by slow turning propellers. Thus they don't disrupt passive sonar usage. On the contrary they are effective in blocking high frequency sounds like those employed by active sonars (the ping :ping: ).
Due to its nature, the behavior of a thermocline is similar to a low pass filter.

[mcarlsonus]

I'll start by saying that I could be wrong....

But didn't I read somewhere that the thermoclines are a lot deeper in the Atlantic? Too deep to make a real difference?

Thermoclines are generally shallower in the North Atlantic, regardless of seasons/latitude/effect of Iceland/Greenland/polar ice melt-off. As one approaches the Pole, often there are no thermoclines encountered at all.

Interesting OTHER (irrelevant) fact: the specific gravity numbers are so different between Atlantic and Pacific oceans that a sub transiting the Panama Canal will have to rebalance the boat/rearrange the ballast at either end.

[robbo180265]

Well that's why I love this forum:up:


Some interesting facts there - thanks guys.

[mcarlsonus]

on behalf of the band, we'd like to thank you and hope we passed the audition...

[robbo180265]

on behalf of the band, we'd like to thank you and hope we passed the audition...

John Lennon - at the end of the Let it be film and indeed the end of the Beatles

Class:rock:

[msxyz]

Glad to share some knowledge :)

I hope some modder or game developer takes notice ;)

[karamazovnew]

Let's get a few things clear...
1. Sonar gets reflected when it encounters a sudden density change.
2. These changes are caused by deep currents with different salinity.
3. The effect of these is a sudden change in temperature/depth dynamics (a thermocline).

It doesn't matter if the water temperature drops 30 degrees or 2 degrees overall. Generally speaking, thermoclines in the Atlantic were not "weaker" just because the temperatures are lower.

From a every reliable source (maritime university meteorology teacher), the GENERAL strata thermoclines in the Atlantic ranged from 500m to as low as 200m.

There are however very dynamic and random cases of thermoclines in "turbulent" waters, where different bodies of water meet. These local thermoclines were indeed much better at fooling sonar in the Pacific low waters than in the North Atlantic.

To all general extents and purposes, thermoclines are only effective if your sub can reach 500m depth. And since the Germans didn't have specialized equipment they didn't bother with them.

There are 2 tactics when avoiding ASDIC and depth charges:
1. you stay at periscope depth if:
- there are no planes
- the sea is not calm
- the colder it is outside, the better (because of the inverse thermocline near the surface)

2. you go as deep as you can. why?
- because the asdic sonar cone might miss you
- because it might encounter different layers so it will give false readings
- because depth charges will have a longer distance to travel, making maneuvers possible
- because your engines/repairs will be harder to hear.

[mobucks]

if you're desperate, try installing the critical hits for deckgun mod, surface, and shoot it out at ludicrous speed. 1-2 good hits on the destroyers is usually enough.

[commandosolo2009]

Wait till night time.

Pop up to decks awash depth (~8m) if you are atleast 3000-4000m away. Should be high enough to replinish the CO2. And you can drive on your diesels.

If they dont spot you, drive away at that depth at half speed until you are ~8000m away then surface and run for it at flank speed.

Worth a shot. I've closed to nearly 1000m at night time on a few occcasions vs. a patrolling escort at decks awash. But he wasn't alert.. so its probably not the same.


I perfectly agree with gutted. Deck awash and when CO2 refills dive to 163 meters without turning engines on, turn silent running on..

Wait an hout and if they dont go, repeat as above..

Better conducted at night with no moon..

Is there a snorkel to be fit?? I dont know about that, but if you happen to have access to one with renown, I suggest buying one.. It's good versus prolonged dives...

if you hear sonar pings in intervals widening, then they are getting bored and will soon leave the area..

[Faamecanic]

Awesome.. had a 'saved game' after the sinking of the battleship... will try this again; this time I'll push the CO2 button when I HAVE to come up for air.

Yet another FINE example of a SH4 bug that has been known since SH4 was released and STILL it makes it into SH5..... this is male bovine fecal matter... and this is where I DO feel the DEVS are responsible. :nope: There is no reason they couldnt have fixed this.

Anywho....good luck. Sounds like your kinda hosed :) Is this the stock AI or a MOD AI..and what year is it? The DDs I have encountered so far couldnt find me if I beat on thier hulls with a pipe wrench.