Where do I go for that 'free' healthcare?

[SteamWake]

Seems like there is a lot of confusion out there. Not supprisingly.

Pssst heres a hint.... its not 'free'.

They're saying, 'Where do we get the free Obama care, and how do I sign up for that?' " said Carrie McLean, a licensed agent for eHealthInsurance.com. The California-based company sells coverage from 185 health insurance carriers in 50 states

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/04/06/91696/health-care-overhaul-spawns-mass.html

[GoldenRivet]

i think i could handle this bill if it would leave me the hell alone.

Problem:

10-15% of the nation is without healthcare (notice the unemployment rate sort of jives with that number? weird)

Solution:

AhHA! We will force everyone to buy insurance!

http://twistedsifter.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/guinness-brilliant.jpg

another funny thing about free health care...

My wife's insurance policy through her work YESTERDAY;

the premium... doubled from $85/month to $160

the co-pay... doubled from $20 to $40

the deductible for serious procedures... doubled from $2,500 to $5,000

Dear BO and NP

**** YOU

[SteamWake]

i think i could handle this bill if it would leave me the hell alone.

Problem:

10-15% of the nation is without healthcare (notice the unemployment rate sort of jives with that number? weird)

Solution:

AhHA! We will force everyone to buy insurance!

another funny thing about free health care...

My wife's insurance policy through her work YESTERDAY;

the premium... doubled from $85/month to $160

the co-pay... doubled from $20 to $40

the deductible for serious procedures... doubled from $2,500 to $5,000

Dear BO and NP

**** YOU

Careful lest you be summoned to capitol hill to explain why your costs increased when the aim of the bill was to reduce costs. You have explaining to do !

[AVGWarhawk]

This bill will cause more trouble than solve. Thanks BO :yeah:

[Zachstar]

So your rates raise because Insurance companies want to virtually rape wallets before they are forced to be reasonable. And of course you blame the gov. Every fat cat insurance company thanks you for your devotion to their cause of greater and greater CEO pay. If you continue one day they may invent warp drive and just might take you with them when they go to another planet to pillage :P

The bill isn't great but the bill isn't directly raising your costs. Its the trusts between the companies and their PR hitsquads claiming reducing lawsuits will magically reduce costs so everyone can get in as opposed to it somehow finding its way to the CEO as usual.

[Freiwillige]

Smoke and mirrors. Hey look at my right hand do magic tricks while my left hand is in your wallet. The ultimate goal of this bill is and always was redistribution of wealth.

Remember the Communist creed....(From those that have to those that need.)

This is nothing other than hey lets charge more from those that can afford insurance so that we can give it to those that cannot afford insurance and draw the line at the racial divide and put more money in the governments smoke and mirrors hands to fund even more socialist agenda's!

That's my thoughts anyhow.

[SteamWake]

Private companys cannot and will not be able to compete against the federal goverment.

[tater]

Where to get free health care? Jail, apparently. Read that poor wording (can't blame them, no one actually read the thing, lol) means that sex offenders might get government paid viagra!

Yeah!

[Zachstar]

Private companys cannot and will not be able to compete against the federal goverment.

When it comes to health they had a crap poor record at even trying. What are you saying anyway? Public option got stripped.

[August]

When it comes to health they had a crap poor record at even trying. What are you saying anyway? Public option got stripped.

So what exactly is this massively expensive bill going to actually accomplish then?

[GoldenRivet]

Every fat cat insurance company thanks you for your devotion to their cause of greater and greater CEO pay.

Well to them i say "You're welcome" because MY insurance doesnt cost a brown burning bag of dog sh*t.

because i dont effing have any... and i would be inclined to keep it that way.

but, now queen Nancy has come out saying either i buy it or go to jail?

To her i say... "your majesty - up your Royal Rosie red ass." :rock:

when i have a problem that requires a trip to the ER (3 such trips in my 31 years) i pay hard cash... thats my insurance policy, and it works for me.

if you guys want to go out and buy a Porsche... go for it. Im happy with my pickup

if you want to go out and buy a $500,000 sprawling home... go for it... im happy with my 3 bedroom home.

if you want to accept the government intrustion and be forced to buy something - good for you - but im not playing this game.

[tater]

This bill addresses none of the real issues facing healthcare delivery in the US. AFAIK, it's to try and liberalize the electorate by making as many as possible beholden to the state, nothing more.

It piles more people on medicaid—a system that only exists by mandate, and pays so little that providers actually lose out of pocket money to treat them.

It does zero to encourage "conservative care," and in fact, since medicaid dirtballs are more likely to sue, AND medicaid pays so poorly, it actually encourages needless tests, etc, to try and run the bill up to offset the other losses.

Since the bill mentions adding more primary care docs (by magic!), but not specialists, it does not address the critical shortage of specialists. No offense to any primary care guys who might be here, but face it, you see your primary care doc when you have either nothing wrong with you, or 99% of the time, self-limiting stuff (meaning it gets better with no care at all). More GPs, contrary to claims of "preventative care" doesn't really help, you need more specialists. Instead, we have more deadbeats (medicaid) for the same number of specialists—that means longer waits. That's fine unless you have something time critical, then I guess you get to take one for the team unless you are lucky enough to be personal friends with enough specialists that you can always get squeezed in.

Actually, that might help increase the number of docs—if you want decent care for your own family, go to medical school!

BTW, the US system—warts and all—has better outcomes than anywhere else when you look at metrics not confounded by lifestyle, etc.

[Zachstar]

So what exactly is this massively expensive bill going to actually accomplish then?

Force them to try

[tater]

Actually, you don;t have to buy insurance. This has been shown in Mass, actually.

The fine imposed is less than insurance. The law disallows charging people more WHO SHOULD BE CHARGED MORE (preexisting conditions SHOULD BE CHARGED MORE).

So pay the minimal fine, then insure yourself AFTER you become actually ill.

Profit!

[tater]

Force them to try

ROFL.

How?

Be precise, since clearly you've read, and understand the bill.

[GoldenRivet]

since clearly you've read, and understand the bill.

Not :haha:

[Zachstar]

The Preexisting crap stuff being handled in forcing them to try. Heck maybe now that they don't need the army of insurance issue finders (To deny coverage) Maybe they can invest some of that money in say reducing costs! Nah that wont happen but atleast the preexisting crap is going.

[GoldenRivet]

hey Zach,

as i said before... the pre-existing condition stuff was a step in the right direction, but...

A. there is a lot of pet project "fat" to trim off this bill

and

B. they should not force any citizen to buy anything under duress... its nonsense.

BO came to within a gnat's nuts of having full bipartisan support on this thing but they got too carried away and added too much fluff and too little substance.

If there were probably 5 or 6 big ticket items cut out of this thing... i would be all over this thing with support.

but lets use an analogy

Silent Hunter 5's Online DRM is to the Gamers

as

The health care bills requirment to buy is to me

agitating, irritating, intrusive... etc etc

[tater]

Preexisting CRAP?

What is insurance? The idea is that people pay in who are healthy, gambling that if they ever get really sick they will come out ahead. The whole point is that this must NOT BE TRUE for the majority.

People with preexisting conditions SHOULD PAY MORE as they are demonstrably a higher risk.

If you are a professional climber, for example, you should pay more for trauma coverage. Ditto a race car driver. Why should someone who is far more likely to use care not pay more?

This is where the republicans derail, frankly, since no one wants to say that mom should have to pay more because she had bilateral breast cancer 10 years ago. Guess what, she should have to pay more, she's at far higher risk. (my mom was in this position, but guess what, it was fair)

You know what actually controls costs well?

HMOs.

Everyone HATED the HMO period when it was the new thing, and it's largely gone away, but look at the stats, it worked.

No one wants a real solution, they all want something for nothing.

[Zachstar]

I will put it this way the ending of preexisting as well as the diseases caught early and treated quickly instead of festering outweighs the bad parts of the bill.

[tater]

I will put it this way the ending of preexisting as well as the diseases caught early and treated quickly instead of festering outweighs the bad parts of the bill.

No it doesn't IMO. How? Be specific.

Prexisting premium increases help keep the insurance business afloat—you do realize that insurance profits are only 1-2% of total healthcare expense in the US, right? They could operate not for profit, and it would do almost nothing to costs in the US.

Treated quickly? The vast majority of those who are without coverage are without coverage BY CHOICE.

This bill simply plops them into medicaid, or forces them to buy into some insurance. Yes, people who have it use it more. How does this catch disease early? Disease that matters, that is. Catching self-limiting stuff doesn't help, it actually hurts since it wastes provider time (and typically results in empirical care—dosing with antibiotics for every damn thing). Since the providers that are already stretched thin have XX% more patients, waits are longer.

Hmm, that timely care thing isn't looking so good.

As for REAL medical problems, primary care doesn't actually catch them early. Something has to present to be caught, and the people most capable of noticing early are the specialists. Doing testing—say PSA testing—has not been shown to actually improve outcomes overall, it just costs money. It's done a lot as defensive medicine, though (CYA, don't get sued). When you do present with, say, rectal bleeding, to your GP, you've just wasted a GP visit, when you really need to see a gastroenterologist. If you had no insurance at all, you'd likely have headed to the ER when you were bleeding out yer ass, right? Guess what, ER doc would have called the gastroenterologist on call. Zero difference.