[REL] Hydrophone Tracker

[gutted]

Hydrophone Tracker v1.1b
by: Gutted


Note: It's not a mod.. that's why i posted it here instead.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads/hydrophonetracker_4c6.png
Note: The longer the time interval between the sightings, the more accurate it is.



This is actually a tool that is going to be in Solution Solver 2.0, but that is some time away, so i figured i'd make it a standalone program as well.


Download (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1711)


Version 1.1b Changelog
------------------------
+ Added a "minutes" label next to the time interval entry box.. to remove any confusion about what it expects.
+ Added support for units other than meters for range entry. Supports Meters, Kilometers, Feet, Yards, & Nautical Miles now.


Version 1.1 Changelog
---------------------
+ Fixes line scaling problem. Due to letting you enter values out of order since the beta version, I forgot to have the program reset it's internal scaling whenever you start changing things.


Changelog from the Beta version:
-----------------------------------
+ Program now accounts for your own true course at the time of the sightings.
+ No longer forced to enter things in a strict manner. You can enter anything at anytime.

[makman94]

hi Gutted,

when i first saw your solution solver tool ,i said ''wow,this guy definetely has the skills'' ! it is an AMAZING tool and now you give us this...the hydrophone tracker ! which is also a great tool ,saving a lot of time drawing circles ....parallaleous lines....etc !

your work is really amazing sir ! keep at it !

congratulations ! :up:

[reaper7]

Nice one Gutted. Amazing stuff your doing. :up:

[gutted]

Heads up, new version. See first post.


If you want to see the problem i fixed, enter these values with version 1.0:

B1: 10 degrees
B2: 15 degrees
B3: 23 degrees

Now repeatedly hit send on B3 LOL.


whoops.

Why did this happen? Because in the beta version you could not change data once entered. You had to hit reset button.. which is where the display scaling resets itself (the internal lines are scaled so they fit the bearing wheel nicely). Anyway I forgot to add a call to have it reset the scale whenever you change any of the bearings. This actually has another effect of the "show solution" lines being drawn in the wrong spots sometimes after a few changes.... despite the solution readouts being correct.

[UberTorpedo]

Perhaps this should be relocated to the Mods Section?:-?

[gutted]

OK... new version is up. Version 1.1b (final version i promise).

It's a minor update:
Mainly to add support for units other than meters. Also added a "Minutes" label next to the Time Interval entry window to remove any confusion on what it expects.

Anyway, I don't foresee myself doing anything more with this for the time being. It does what it was supposed to do. Any more time spent on it will be more work for no real gain. The version of it that will be in Solution Solver 2.0 may (or may not) be enhanced somewhat both in UI & functionality. But as for this standalone version...I'm closing it's project file and packing it away. No more updates for it (unless there's a bug).

I could probably make the numeric up/down controls alittle less wonky, but thats a .NET framework thing. And it doesn't really bother me. I'll probably override their behaviour in the version for SS2.0.

[reaper7]

Cheers, and love the included PDF really explains everything.Now I've no excuse not to practice Hydrophone use and triangulation.
Maybe i'll even learn some maths along the way :haha:.

[kylania]

Perhaps this should be relocated to the Mods Section?:-?

It's not a mod, :DL it's an external program.

[gutted]

I'd like to hear about your success's (or failures) using it.

I've only been in one situation where i could really use it.. .but It has already netted me a Queen Elizabeth Battleship.:D


I was in the southern blockade area of "Total Germany". Night time, medium fog. Decided to stop and listen and heard some very faint contacts. Sound man said they were closing so it was the perfect oppurtunity to try it (Long range and closing). 20 minute intervals was enough to get nice bearing spacing. The first bearing was done by ear, but I let the soundman report nearest contact for the rest of the beearings.. because it turned out to be a group.. and i couldn't distinguish which one it was myself,

After triangulation.. the estimated speed was 19kts!! wow... program must be fuxed i thought. I was not in a good position after triangulating the 4th bearing to reach a target that fast. So i drew an intercept and ran to it. As i neared the plotted course, the watch crew called out task force sighted.

Sure enough some escorts and two Battleships were about 3000 meters away coming through the fog. I Turned into what i figured was a 90 degree angle on them.. set speed on TDC to 19 knoots, 90 Starbboard AOB. Adjusted the scope till the gyro read 0.. and fired a salvo of 4 G7a's with a 3 degree spread once the first BB crossed the wire.

3 Hits on the BB. Several hours later she shunk. :D

So far every other contact in this patrol was either spotted visually, or was already too close on the hydrophone to use this, or was moving away when 1st heard. It's definately a situational tool.

[Pisces]

Sure enough some escorts and two Battleships were about 3000 meters away coming through the fog. I Turned into what i figured was a 90 degree angle on them.. set speed on TDC to 19 knoots, 90 Starbboard AOB. Adjusted the scope till the gyro read 0.. and fired a salvo of 4 G7a's with a 3 degree spread once the first BB crossed the wire.

3 Hits on the BB. Several hours later she shunk. :DDon't you love those adreanaline rushes. :rock:

[gutted]

Finally was in another situation to use it again.

Cimmaron Class tanker.. Long range on hydrophone & closing. It was so faint of a sound that the sonar guy couldn't hear him. He didn't hear him till i was about to take the 3rd reading lol.

Anyway, after an hour of listening.....
Estimation: 60 degrees @ 8kts.

I arrived at a spot 4000m away from where i thought hed' be, but it turned out he would pass more like 1500m in front of me. So i knew his course was slightly less.

My visual observations for the solution:
55 degrees @ 9kts

Fired two, One near the front.. other near the center. They both hit near the rear. Real target speed must have been 10kts.


Much better than just running around blindly chasing after the sound. I was actually waiting for him well in advance.

[gutted]

That same night (actually eaaarrly in the next morning) i repeated the process against another tanker that was coming up the coast of ireland. This time i snapped pictures as i did it.



First bearing was taken at 5:28am. 15 minutes later he moved a decent number of degrees.. so i figured 15 minute intervals would suffice. Here's the program after all three bearings have been entered:
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/7688/001estimatedcourse.png

Note how i forgot to change the timer interval from 20 (the time i used for the last target) to 15 minutes... this snafu will rear its head later. I only noticed it after i wondered why my torpedo's hit the rear of the ship.


Here's the plotted B4 and estimtated target course:
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/6069/002initialplot.png


After another 15 minutes, i find his real location...
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/243/003triangulated.png


Then transposed his course to the correct location... and measured the distance to it from my initial location.
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/8238/004rangefound.png


Enter that range.. and get the esitmated target Speed (Note: i still forgot to change the timing interval to the actual 15 minutes i've been using):
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/3162/005gotspeed.png


Had i changed the timing interval to 15 his speed would have been slightly faster.

Heading to my chosen intercept location:
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/3631/006headingtointercept.png


After some time waiting in that location.....
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/183/007shipspotted.png



TDC Settings (with the scope at 000):
90 Port AOB
Range ~2000m
Speed 9kts (should have been faster, due to my error earlier)
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/6016/008tdcsettings.png



With the scope at around 11 degrees.. the gyro is zero. So thats my desired shoot bearing:
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/6122/009gyro.png



continued.....

[gutted]

Getting closer.....
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/7107/010closing.png



Almost time to shoot....
http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/9218/011almost.png


Los!!!
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/9193/012los.png


Watching the fish...
http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/2532/013torpedosrunning.png



What the hell.. i hit the rear?? LOL Target must have been going faster than expected (remember the error in the last post??? DOH!!)
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/2755/013bimpacts1.png


Time of first hydrophone reading: 5:28am
Time of Torpedo's striking: 6:44am
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/5637/014impacts.png


Finished him off with the deck gun... complete with hollywood explosions LOL
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/749/015finishhim.png



Location of kill:

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/9254/16complete.png


So in three uses so far... I've been able to find and kill the target without much fuss. I expect that sooner or later i'll enter some bad data though, and be off.

So far the esitmated course and speed (when i didn't screw it), were well within tolerances to get you where you needed to be. I defianately would not rely on it 100% of the time for TDC inputs. But i guess when the visibility is crap... its better than nothing.

[karamazovnew]

Bloody awesome manual. The app is great for testing the technique before getting used to it. This is a bloody great one. Can't wait to test it in fog. It's gonna get really bloody soon :D

[I'm goin' down]

I have my computer up and running, finally. A few months ago, I looked at your tracker and did not understand it. Tonight I reread the readme. It's an amazing piece of work!!

I have some questions. When do you use this? When you play with map contacts off? If you play with map contacts on, it would not seem to serve a purpose, as you can plot a target's course on the map. I usually play with map contacts on, and i rarely use a sonar only attack as Rockin Robbins and Werner Sobe's tutorials demonstrate. However, if map contacts are off, your program seems like a great solution. Even if it is foggy, if map contacts are on, you can establish the target's course and you can fire torpedoes when the target passes the firing point (using the Solution Solver) when the sonar man announces the target at the firing point's bearing. I nam trying to get my bearings here and what like your advice.

[Krauter]

When I tried a few patrols with Map Contacts off I enjoyed the realism but had a lot of trouble plotting and shooting contacts.

However, using this tool helped me get into firing position alot more frequently (and forced me to slow down and take my time setting up the shot). My only gripe is having to switch back and forth from the game to my desktop (and this tool)

Now that I've gone back to map contacts on I use this tool a lot less (as I simply mark the contacts bearing with a pencil and after so many lines chart their course). But it still gets useful if I'm running in fog and can only get so many visual reports everyonce in a while.

Now I have one question, (sorry for the hijack), but does anyone have a tutorial to plot things with map contacts off?

[I'm goin' down]

When I tried a few patrols with Map Contacts off I enjoyed the realism but had a lot of trouble plotting and shooting contacts.

However, using this tool helped me get into firing position alot more frequently (and forced me to slow down and take my time setting up the shot). My only gripe is having to switch back and forth from the game to my desktop (and this tool)

Now that I've gone back to map contacts on I use this tool a lot less (as I simply mark the contacts bearing with a pencil and after so many lines chart their course). But it still gets useful if I'm running in fog and can only get so many visual reports everyonce in a while.

Now I have one question, (sorry for the hijack), but does anyone have a tutorial to plot things with map contacts off?

Answer re map contacts off: High Realism Tutorial revised March, 2009 by Captain Scurvy. I forgot how to copy the link to the thread.

High Realism Tutorial (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=907)


High Realism (practice) Mission (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=668)

Question re hydrphone tracker: Can it be used with accuracy when my boat is moving or must my boat be stationary? The readme indicates my boat can be moving.

[Krauter]

I believe that you can use this while moving, but it seriously impairs certain values such as the range of the target.

Also, you can only (with this tool) head in one direction while you're taking your bearings. Otherwise the estimated target course will be off.

Thanks for the links

[commandosolo2009]

gutted, could this be tailored for ipad? would save alot of time you know!

[Dignan]

Was this tool ever put into a downloadable "app" for iphone or tablets? It is just too good not to use but I don't have another computer to have running at the same time and I don't want to alt-tab out of the game. This is ripe for use as a phone or tablet app.

[Pisces]

Was this tool ever put into a downloadable "app" for iphone or tablets? It is just too good not to use but I don't have another computer to have running at the same time and I don't want to alt-tab out of the game. This is ripe for use as a phone or tablet app.I don't think so. Back in the days of SH3 we just used the mapdrawing tools to construct it.
There are youtube videos showing how to draw it (4 bearing method hydrophone). Or search here for 4 bearing method from user Nefelodam. I think Makman also made one, not sure.

Part of it (how to come up with the course through the first 3 bearings) is described in this Maneuveringboar manual: pdf page 68 (page 56 in the document itself)

http://gcaptain.com/maritime/tools/files/MoBoard.pdf

Ok, it's a few years later but the following should still be said. The first 3 bearings need to be taken while being motionless. Speeds less than halve a knot won't matter that much, but it should be avoided. Between the time of bearing 3 and 4 you should sprint away (fast on the surface if possible). Parallel to the probable course for best effect.

[Dignan]

I don't think so. Back in the days of SH3 we just used the mapdrawing tools to construct it.
There are youtube videos showing how to draw it (4 bearing method hydrophone). Or search here for 4 bearing method from user Nefelodam. I think Makman also made one, not sure.

Part of it (how to come up with the course through the first 3 bearings) is described in this Maneuveringboar manual: pdf page 68 (page 56 in the document itself)

http://gcaptain.com/maritime/tools/files/MoBoard.pdf

Ok, it's a few years later but the following should still be said. The first 3 bearings need to be taken while being motionless. Speeds less than halve a knot won't matter that much, but it should be avoided. Between the time of bearing 3 and 4 you should sprint away (fast on the surface if possible). Parallel to the probable course for best effect.

Thanks. I'm getting pretty competent with the 4 bearings method using the navmap. I'm also getting lazy though :haha:. That's why I was hoping this program could be put into an app or some sort.

[LemonA]

About this EXAMPLE 25.
The descriped solution is incomplete, inaccurate or erroneous.

But when we change and use "The 4 Bearing Method (non static)" then the 6 bearings and dates make sence.

[c.ATP]

Thank you for your make.

I want to use this app in iPad, I think it can operate in excel.
But I didn’t solve the maths problem….

Can you show me ?

[Aktungbby]

c.ATP