The future of video games? Pay as you go?

[skookum]

Ok, so I said I would never be back. I kept lurking and just couldn't stay quiet any more. I guess that makes me a hypocrite. Oh well. HOWDY Y'ALL!!!

Anyways, here's what this whole UBI DRM thing got me thinking about. What with requirements of a constant internet connection and the move towards online saves, I wonder if video game companies' ideal end state is to move the entire game to their servers, thus leaving nothing on their users computers for them to copy. Software engineering and bandwidth problems aside, this model of interactive computer entertainment delivery seems to meet the big software companies' interests perfectly, namely making money and controlling who gets access to the code. You can already play Flash games online. What with the massive amounts of RAM computers are coming with these days, and the increases in bandwidth coming in the next decade, I'm willing to bet that copying a major hit on to you hard drive so you can play at your leisure will become a thing of the past. Instead either you'll have to rent access to a title or pay a per-use fee in order to play the game. Call it a virtual theme park if you will, where each game represents a different ride in the company's theme park server. When the user logs off the game simply gets wiped from RAM to prevent copying.

At least they won't be able to charge you $8.00 for a hot dog.

[Sailor Steve]

Hypocrite? No, just an addict. Addicted to a forum. Well, there are worse ones you could be stuck with. Either way, welcome back!:DL

I don't know about the future of video games, since the only ones I play consistently are related to aviation or naval history, and they are few and far between. I don't have to be online or pay-to-play to play miniatures games with my friends, and that's my real hobby.

So I don't have an answer, just ever more questions.

[alexradu89]

The world of video games (just like everything in life) is dynamic, so 20 years from now it doesn't mean we'll have to pay for each level/mission we play. Video game styles and concepts will change just as times change. Today we're facing with piracy so everyone is testing various protection methods (DRM and many more to come). Then there's also the mmorpgs that you buy or pay to play on a monthly basis. One thing is for sure, nowadays, the quality in games is decreasing rapidly. You spend much less time on a game, but better graphics and/or character immersion etc. Everything is a lot more commercial and pointed towards casual players that bring in the big bucks for the companies.

[Iron Budokan]

Frankly, I have little doubt the future of video games will be pay as you go. There may be boutique publishers who eschew this model and release stand alone, single player games. There is always someone willing to buck the trend, thank goodness. But they will be on the fringe.

I think the large developers and publishers will eventually move toward the "pay as you go" direction. I don't like it, mind you. But I think it's going to happen.

[ETR3(SS)]

Even if games go in this direction there will always be ways around it. Just ask the people who don't play WoW online.

[mcarlsonus]

I remember well the, "dark days" when we all had to pay by the minute or hour for internet access of any type.

I suspect in the future, we'll see only run-of-the-mill games for the PC and more advertisement and subscription-supported sites like, "Pogo" (in the US - don't know if they're international) - one can either play, "Trivial Pursuit" or, "Scrabble" --- and little else. The major efforts and popular stuff'll be sent to the consoles where, "they" can more easily maintain profit margins and more easily control piracy.

[Commie]

So how is this different from putting money in the arcades? That was 'pay as you go' so it's hardly something we haven't seen before. GEtting older now and so I could care less if gaming dies(it won't of course), as I've still a backlog of many titles I haven't finished, and many mods to play, not to mention revisiting old favourites!

[Nordmann]

While it's something that has probably been considered, I cannot see it working for anything other than MMOs. If you are making people pay a subscription, then you have to provide something which makes that subscription worth paying, and that means content. Clearly this is something which most single-player games either cannot or will not do, and thus it's unlikely that many people would be willing to pay for them.

Regardless, such a system would probably spell the end of PC gaming as we know it today. I for one would steer well clear of games utilizing pay-to-play, and I'm sure I would not be alone in that conviction. Though this is really a moot point, since few companies are going to be foolish enough to implement it.

[Zedi]

Well, the future is called OnLive and it starts in June 17 this year in USA. OnLive has a HUGE potential to be the future of gaming and I cannot wait to be available in Europe too.

I played WoW for 5 years and I really have no issues being online for a game if there is a benefit from it. This DRM thing it's plain stupid as is no gain for the consumers and is not at all an anti piracy solution. But OnLive its is and will kill forever the piracy, also will give the opportunity for everybody to play the latest games without being forced to have the ultimate pc nor gamming stations at home.

For those who don't know what OnLive means, here is the basics:
onlive Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnLive)
official site (http://www.onlive.com/index.html)

[Frederf]

Makes perfect sense... they seem to certainly make them as you go.

[alexradu89]

Well, the future is called OnLive and it starts in June 17 this year in USA. OnLive has a HUGE potential to be the future of gaming and I cannot wait to be available in Europe too.

I played WoW for 5 years and I really have no issues being online for a game if there is a benefit from it. This DRM thing it's plain stupid as is no gain for the consumers and is not at all an anti piracy solution. But OnLive its is and will kill forever the piracy, also will give the opportunity for everybody to play the latest games without being forced to have the ultimate pc nor gamming stations at home.

For those who don't know what OnLive means, here is the basics:
onlive Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnLive)
official site (http://www.onlive.com/index.html)
OnLive will require a VERY VERY VERY good internet connection, and at today's standards I belive there are few that could actually play any games using OnLive... it will probably take a LOT of time before the system is perfected granted the internet technology also advances some more, the only thing that interested me about OnLive is that you don't need a super duper uber gaming rig to play games (because I don't)

[Zedi]

OnLive will require a VERY VERY VERY good internet connection, and at today's standards I belive there are few that could actually play any games using OnLive... it will probably take a LOT of time before the system is perfected granted the internet technology also advances some more, the only thing that interested me about OnLive is that you don't need a super duper uber gaming rig to play games (because I don't)

Well, I don't think you will need such a uber speed connection, 5Mbs connection speed tend to be the standard home connection in EU and USA already. Even under 5Mbs, this will work... quoting from OnLive

What kind of Internet connection do I need to use the OnLive Service?
OnLive works over nearly any wired broadband connection (DSL, cable modem, fiber, or through the LAN at your college or office) with 5Mbps or greater for HD-resolution games. OnLive requires 1.5Mbps for SD-resolution, but initially at launch, OnLive will only offer HD-resolution. Although OnLive technically works over WiFi wireless networks, the reliability of wireless networks can vary greatly, due to interference sources such as microwave ovens, and other wireless networks sharing the spectrum. Initially at launch, OnLive will not support wireless networks.

Those who played some MMO's for a longer time know that high speed connection is not really necesary. My only skepticism is related only to the hardware part. They would need some uber epic rigs on their side to be able to provide their clients a quality service. I have a hard time to accept that if they will be successful and they will raise their customer base at 8-10 million clients or more (as Blizzard have now with WoW), those rigs will not just crash when 5 or 10 million people will play at the same time.

Time will tell, but if this project will be succesful.. this will be the future of video games. Pay as you go, play how much and what you want, huge multiplayer options, no more piracy. The future looks good, I'm really excited about this project :)

[IanC]

Time will tell, but if this project will be succesful.. this will be the future of video games. Pay as you go, play how much and what you want, huge multiplayer options, no more piracy. The future looks good, I'm really excited about this project :)

You`re excited about the need to go online to play a single player game?

[Arclight]

And after having spend a ton of money, loosing everything if you forget/couldn't pay your fee for 1 month? :-?

At least ten years from now I can still grab a box and install from disk, or from HD for digital downloads, and just play it, no costs.

Seriously, I don't get. I hope OnLive dies as fast as it appeared. :nope:



Ah, and super-uber-rig argument; this thing is 2 years old and still runs most new games maxed out without too much difficulty. Granted, they are typically games released on console as well, but even SH5 runs fine, without shadows of course (nvidia). :D

[Immacolata]

I think the large developers and publishers will eventually move toward the "pay as you go" direction. I don't like it, mind you. But I think it's going to happen.

But that is exactly how videogames began in the first place :-) Inserting coins in the machine for a few minutes of game.

[Nordmann]

Well, I don't think you will need such a uber speed connection, 5Mbs connection speed tend to be the standard home connection in EU and USA already. Even under 5Mbs, this will work... quoting from OnLive

It might be the standard on the continent, but it most certainly is not in Britain. I myself only have a 4MB connection (at best), and my area is not even the worst, many can hardly receive 1MB!

OnLive might sound like a good idea on paper, but as we all know, the reality is often very different. Personally, I do not like the sound of such a system at all. If it should become the norm for future games, it's back to the classics for me, never to return.

[Task Force]

Never! lol It would never work... Vedio games are not Cellphones, chargeing as you go should only be for online games.

[Diopos]

They're already designing the next generation of on line games: Pay-to-pay-to-go! :) And then pay a bit more! :DL.

The arcade slot machine analogy is not a good one. You paid per play on a platform you did not own. If you bought the machine your cost per play would be zero.

Add in "cloud computing" in the mix, no local storage requirement, your computer essentially becoming an "user interface" rather than a personal computing and storage facility and you can find youself in a very purplexed "conspiracy theory" maze....

On special offer today! e-mails under 250 words for 1$ ONLY!

:hmmm:


.

[jazman]

Pay as you go? It could be a good idea. Try the first month for $5. If you don't like it, that's it, you're only out $5. Think how much money you would have saved on crud games this way.

Think many companies will shovel out their garbage under this model? Or will they demand $50 upfront PLUS the monthly fee? Which model did DOOM use?

[Zedi]

You`re excited about the need to go online to play a single player game?

OnLive is not DRM. It's a whole different concept with endless possibilities for every gamers all around. The most important thing in this story is that you will not be required to upgrade and invest serious money in your pc every year or even month when a new game is released. You will not have to spend days or even quit to play a game because that game will not run smooth on ur pc or you have some other unidentified technical problems. We all know how annoying is when you buy a game and ur pc refuse to play it, is the most common topic on every game technical forums.

Also, no more patching, downloading, installing and all that jazz.. just connect and play. Not to mention that if you don't like game, you don't have to pay for it. So no more unfinished products and robbery from Ubi :P If they want to have a profit with their games, that game will need to be a really good game. The only problem here is.. no more moding. So I supose the game producers have to be really interested in the community oppinion and implement all major wishes in their game before release.

Related to the connection speed, I'm sure this will be no problem, even with a 1Mbs connection the thing will work fine. When I started to play WoW about 5 year ago, I got a very low speed connection, still I was able to join 45 man content raids without any major problems.

I repeat, my only skepticism is related only to the hardware part. If they customers base will grow to few millions, I really don't see how they hardware will be able to support this. Millions of gamers playing at the same time thousand of different games and all using their rigs.. for me this sound pretty SciFi. Time will tell. This can be only a major success or a mega fail, nothing else.

Another thing I'm not sure about, is the payment. At the beginning they charge $14.95/month just to be member and have access to demos and some other crap, but is no mention how much they will charge us to be able to play a full game. For a month subscription of 14.95 euro I can play WoW or some other MMO, but only to have access to play demos .. 15 euro is too much.

Bottom line, the main idea is good. For example, I play SH5 for few hours and if I don't like it I don't have to pay for it anymore. I will not be robbed by game developers, I will not be forced to invest in pc upgrades every time a new game is released, I will not spend hours and hours with installing a game then patching it and so on. Connect, play and have fun, simple as that.

[alexradu89]

What kind of Internet connection do I need to use the OnLive Service?
OnLive works over nearly any wired broadband connection (DSL, cable modem, fiber, or through the LAN at your college or office) with 5Mbps or greater for HD-resolution games. OnLive requires 1.5Mbps for SD-resolution, but initially at launch, OnLive will only offer HD-resolution. Although OnLive technically works over WiFi wireless networks, the reliability of wireless networks can vary greatly, due to interference sources such as microwave ovens, and other wireless networks sharing the spectrum. Initially at launch, OnLive will not support wireless networks.
Don't trust this. Expect the requirements to be at least 30% higher.:up:

[RSColonel_131st]

The problem with OnLive will be that long term, it will cost you more, even facturing in upgrades.

Lets see: Their initial offer will be 720p HD, which means 1280x720 pixels. That is a fairly low gaming resolution these days, which you can easily achive, even for modern games with playable framerates, on a 600EUR computer.

You'll be paying 180USD a year (likely 180EUR here, when it starts) just for basic access. So in three years, you paid the price of a computer that can run the same games at the same resolution.

But you also need a computer for OnLive, just a very basic one. Like a 500EUR bargain from the local electronic shop. At the absolute lowest, lets say you need a 400EUR "basic terminal". So the cost of OnLive is now 400EUR + 180 *3 equals 940EUR for the first three years.

You also need wired broadband (cable or DSL). I could get a wireless UMTS data stick for 20EUR a month that would mostly fill my needs (I don't game multi these days) but a wired connection suitable for OnLive will cost me 40EUR. So for three years, that's another 36*20EUR extra which comes out at 720EUR.

We are now already at 1660EUR - lets say, to give benefit of doupt, 1500EUR - for three years of OnLive. But there are additional costs.

Like the question if games you "buy" at OnLive can be transfered to your own computer if you quit paying 15bucks monthly. Or will you lose the games you "bought" since they are only available trough the OnLive service? You certainly won't be able to resell OnLive games, which means some more lost money if you regularly trade or resell old games.

Also, I'm fairly sure that OnLive will have to deal with "input lag" like a bad multiplayer server. Even if their computing centre is close by, you can expect a 50ms Ping time to them. So your keyboard input needs 50ms to travel, and the resulting change in game graphics also need 50ms. You're looking at a tenth of a second lag between input and visual reaction here.

I'm sure they'll try some advanced algorythms to prevent this, but technically there is simple no way you can have realtime "input/response" situation with a system going over wired broadband.

Factor in the inmaterial costs of loss of control over your game (no modding), eventual internet downtimes keeping you from playing... seriously, where's the advantage?

If they start offering 1920x1200 pixel service for 15USD monthly, including a game or two for that price, and so that I can run it on my TV screen with a free settop box from them, then we're talking.

For console gamers, the cost relationship between owning a console and OnLive is even worse, btw.

But even for computer owners, I can get a very decent brand new gaming rig every three years for the total "Cost of Ownership" I have with OnLive. I can then use that high-powered gaming rig for other productive applications (like Photoshop or Video Editing) that I can't do on my low-power "OnLive Terminal". I can cut my broadband costs if I want to play SP, and I'm not dependent on availability of any "service" if I want to play offline.

But still, OnLive will sell like hot cakes. Because the average people this is aimed at like "financing" (as in, pay more long term than you'd pay now, short term), they will like the idiot-proofness of it (gaming made as easy as cable TV) and they will simple like the marketing hype that comes with it. Still, I think a 300EUR current generation gaming console would fit everyone better who wants low-cost, idiot-proof gaming.

[mcarlsonus]

Regarding OnLive. It won't be available anywhere but the US in the beginning - and THAT market has to be established before they'll consider other locations. Secondly, it's currently scheduled to be active in June of this year - nearly a year behind schedule already (in a dismal economy where people are actively cutting frills like cable premium channels, etc.) According to OnLive itself, one will have to buy a separate OnLive console and live within 1,000 miles of a server site due to signal degradation. These server locations are currently limited to California and Virginia. Texas sites are allegedly being built out.

Hmmm...

[HKLE]

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/63152

[Rockin Robbins]

And after having spend a ton of money, loosing everything if you forget/couldn't pay your fee for 1 month? :-?

At least ten years from now I can still grab a box and install from disk, or from HD for digital downloads, and just play it, no costs.

Actually this is a very misinformed observation. I quit paying for Runescape two years ago. It is a game that now bears very little resemblance to that primitive thing I left. However, I can log on today to the free version and play that game I left on the updated game with all attributes, position and possessions totally intact.

When Ubi issues the SH6 drink coaster disposable game, your game on SH4 is useless. Your progress, submarines, renown, experiences are all lost and useless in the new game incarnation.

So let's recap. I haven't paid my $5.98 per month for two years, yet my character is completely intact, playable on the latest update of Runescape with no handicaps at all. Your SH4 game is completely in the garbage can as soon as you buy the next drink coaster masquerading as an update. And you get to hear "extreme speed ahead!" until you're ready to explode.

The advantage goes to the game company who really cares about and for its customers and which exists for the simple purpose of making them happy: Jagex.

I agree that forcing customers to an online platform for games is stupid. Anywhere there is a customer need that is not met, some good company will jump into the gap to fill that need. Single player games are not endangered. We are simply discovering who will meet our need for them. That might not happen as quickly as we would like.

In the meantime, alternatives will grow. Just look at the music scene. In the bad old days of AM radio, there was Top 40 and there was nothing. Total conformity was the order of the day. Now music is so diversified that no matter what you want to listen to, it's out there. New music in all styles is just flowering everywhere because of all the alternatives that modern technology has made possible.

Rather than a view that only one method of games production must be followed, I think we'll find that competition between online and drink coaster games will make both better meet the needs of Customers. Yes, there will be Sonys and Ubis out there, but with all the good companies we can safely ignore them.

I say that simulation is uniquely suited to the online evolutionary method, where players pay for maintenance and updating. A company who exists to make its customers happy, who is willing to invest for the future with a long term commitment to excellence, and who is willing to let customers into the process to build mutual trust and reliance will go a long ways!

And there will still be a fine market for an offline single player submarine simulation too.

[Zedi]

...
If they start offering 1920x1200 pixel service for 15USD monthly, including a game or two for that price, and so that I can run it on my TV screen with a free settop box from them, then we're talking.
....
That's the main idea. All you need is a stable internet connection and that micro console to play on tv, or.. a simple pc.

I strongly disagree with many of your calculation. You say that every 3 year is enough for a pc upgrade to be able to play the latest games. Well, I don't think so. Last year I bought a nvidia 9200 which was one of the best on the market, now already is outdated and very soon I will have to look for another upgrade to be able to play smooth any game.

And this is only the graphic card. Maybe very soon I will need to upgrade the mobo because some smart guys will discover another slot type for the next gen video cards, a new processor, memory and so on. The upgrade process actually it never stop on PC, there will be always something new that will force you to buy it if you wanna play any games smooth. Even so, is there a high chance that somehow some games will still not work properly.

Point is, the technology evolve very fast month by month and to keep the steps with the video game you will need to constantly upgrade you pc. And that cost a lot of money. With OL I dont even need a pc anymore, is enough to have that console and a TV.

About the broadband connection.. huh, 40eur a month?! Now that's very much, not sure where is that. The highest cost I saw in EU was in Austria on a UPC solution, but in that price (around 34 eur) was also included TV and phone. So 40eur/month for only a broadband connection its ireal.. maybe is time to look for another ISP.

I agree on costs. 15 eur/month only for demos is way to much. I pay that now to play WoW, so at least I get some entertainement for this money. But I supose we need to wait and see how all this go in US first. As I said, this will be a huge succes or a mega fail and we will find it out very soon.

[Rockin Robbins]

I'm afraid the 9200 was never a state of the art card, being very inferior to my almost four year old 7600 GT. By the way, my old card troops on finely, playing just about any game out there with no problems.

[RSColonel_131st]

That's the main idea. All you need is a stable internet connection and that micro console to play on tv, or.. a simple pc.

And how much is that "simple PC" going to cost you?

I strongly disagree with many of your calculation. You say that every 3 year is enough for a pc upgrade to be able to play the latest games. Well, I don't think so. Last year I bought a nvidia 9200 which was one of the best on the market, now already is outdated and very soon I will have to look for another upgrade to be able to play smooth any game.

You bought a GFX card never meant for gaming (it's more of a Desktop/Office type card) and of course it doesn't hold for three years. For my gaming systems, I keep an upgrade interval of about three years, maybe with a GFX upgrade in half of that if necessary. But I'm gaming high-demanding flight simulations (CPU-intensive) AND high GFX-demanding shooters, at 1920x1200 resolution and 4xFSAA. For example, my 9600GT card (at only 100EUR) held out the better part of two years, at that resolution. I could still play ALL my current games on it with lower resolution.

OnLive will be giving you 1280x720, maybe 2xFSAA (if that). I can run any current shooter halfway decent on my three year old box at that resolution.

And this is only the graphic card. Maybe very soon I will need to upgrade the mobo because some smart guys will discover another slot type for the next gen video cards, a new processor, memory and so on. The upgrade process actually it never stop on PC, there will be always something new that will force you to buy it if you wanna play any games smooth. Even so, is there a high chance that somehow some games will still not work properly.

Well, in this paragraph you are simple confirming that you are "tech-afraid" or more aptly named maybe, you are "overloaded" with the requirements of a PC Gamer. Because if you buy the right components, all these things will not happen to you and the components will last a lot of time for little money in interim upgrades, but that requires specialized knowledge. For people who don't have that knowledge, OnLive will still be more expensive than a console - but okay, you can't play SH5 on a console so I guess that's why you are here.


Point is, the technology evolve very fast month by month and to keep the steps with the video game you will need to constantly upgrade you pc. And that cost a lot of money. With OL I dont even need a pc anymore, is enough to have that console and a TV.

With that OnLive console and TV you get less quality (not even 1920p games) than if you bought a PS3.

About the broadband connection.. huh, 40eur a month?! Now that's very much, not sure where is that. The highest cost I saw in EU was in Austria on a UPC solution, but in that price (around 34 eur) was also included TV and phone. So 40eur/month for only a broadband connection its ireal.. maybe is time to look for another ISP.

I just so happen to live in Austria and I have UPC Cable, but these prices are representative also for DSL from other providers. There is no 34EUR All-Inclusive Package I'm aware off, usually these are just "half rate the first six months" or such.


I agree on costs. 15 eur/month only for demos is way to much. I pay that now to play WoW, so at least I get some entertainement for this money. But I supose we need to wait and see how all this go in US first. As I said, this will be a huge succes or a mega fail and we will find it out very soon.

My bet is on success, but not because it's good value for money, rather because people are not informing themself properly. For 85% of the population, the games they can get on the console are plenty fitting their taste. We are the unfortunate other 15 or so percent which we can call "special interest gaming", and I can see your point that if you are tech-adverse and not computer-savy, you'd rather have OnLive handle the details to get the same PC games.

But it's not gonna be cheaper. For the estimated 1600EUR that Onlive would cost me in three years, I could build a very nice gaming rig that would last the same three years. And I get all the benefits of actually owning the hardware for single player games, I can mod them, I can add pheripherals (TrackIR!!!) which I can't do at OnLive.

OnLive is doing something that is a standard business practice these days - making complicated things simple, standardizing them, and selling them to people (at increased price) that can't get stuff done themself. It's very much the same discussion as "building your own PC" versus "having someone build your PC". There is a market for this, the scary thing is just that such massive enterprises tend to kill our niches.