View Full Version : Identifying nationality at night.
CTaardvark
03-22-10, 01:58 PM
How do you identify what nationality ships are at night? I had this problem the other night whilst following a Cargo ship. No matter how close I got I could not make out the flag colours. I thought, "I know. I wonder if it'll be easier to make out if I surface". No it wasn't and then it opened fire on me. Doh!
Any tips?
Flopper
03-22-10, 02:04 PM
How do you identify what nationality ships are at night? I had this problem the other night whilst following a Cargo ship. No matter how close I got I could not make out the flag colours. I thought, "I know. I wonder if it'll be easier to make out if I surface". No it wasn't and then it opened fire on me. Doh!
Any tips?
I usually cheat and run the camera up as close as it can get. Sometimes I still can't make it out. I really wish our boats carried a hand held spotlight, cause I'd like to drive right up and shine a million candlepower right at it.
KL-alfman
03-22-10, 02:06 PM
I usually cheat and run the camera up as close as it can get.
+1 :D
CTaardvark
03-22-10, 02:08 PM
Crafty. A sort of tube launched camera drone. Definitley authentic.
Real life Kaleuns had the same problems many times, so when in doubt do not shoot and simply move away or wait till dawn. If you are not interested in playing that realistically, then you can as well cheat with the external camera like already adviced :up:
It's allways a guessing game. I know the real periscope had color filters (well, Hitman does ;) ) that could enhance some contrast in the image. Perhaps the real Kaleun could try out different colors on the periscope and see how the flag looks in it. Maybe he could detect certain colored markings better in one and less in another. Then it's a matter of 'colorfull deduction'. But we don't really have that functionality in the game. There is a mod that allows color filterst. But doesn't allow different colors in the same game session.
melnibonian
03-22-10, 02:24 PM
I say you fire the torpedo and let the red cross find out the outcome afterwards :03:
On a serious note, you can also use the Light Flags Mod from here http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1113001&postcount=1
Good Luck :up:
Paul Riley
03-22-10, 02:26 PM
What I normally do is try and get as far ahead (also moving along his observed course direction) of the vessel as possible at high speed then swing my UBoat round 90 degrees towards its course track (facing perpendicular) and then slam the anchors on 500-300m from its course,then submerge.I have found this distance is ideal for making out most flags at night,but colour identification can sometimes be difficult,ie:yellows can be hard to make out properly (I once got confused between a Romanian and French ship because of this).If at this point the vessel is valid I will go ahead with the attack.
IMPORTANT - dont get TOO close to the target,or your torpedo/es won't arm and they will harmlessly bounce off.You need at least 300m between you and your target for the torp to arm properly.
Oh yeah, another thing that might help. Make everything on the screen and around your playing environment as dark as possible. Your eyes cannot detect faint colors well enough if they are blinded out by bright objects.
Paul Riley
03-22-10, 02:38 PM
Good point.
CTaardvark
03-22-10, 02:39 PM
I learnt the 300m rule during the academy missions. It took me ages to realise why my torps were bouncing off hulls. :oops: I also had a problem with crashing into ships! I'm getting better you know.
frau kaleun
03-22-10, 02:47 PM
An unarmed torpedo tends to bounce harmlessly off the hull of a ship in the same way that your u-boat doesn't.
Flopper
03-22-10, 02:51 PM
Real life Kaleuns had the same problems many times, so when in doubt do not shoot and simply move away or wait till dawn. If you are not interested in playing that realistically, then you can as well cheat with the external camera like already adviced :up:
I normally play at 100% minus free cam and stabilize view. I like to have that outside camera for sightseeing, as there's a tremendous amount i've never seen. But I must admit, unless it's checked to be off, it's an almost unbearable temptation to gain an advantage as the going gets tough.
I really wish there was a mode where I could leave it off but then view a replay of the whole mission with the free camera available, for screen shot oportunities, etc.
I do believe my night vision is better than the game gives me credit for... we're not spelunking, for cryin' outloud. :haha:
At some point, when seeing an obscured ship, you have the right to attack it, you'll receive instructions about that in early 1940. Usually, any neutral ship, should be illuminated, therefore, can be easily identified as non-hostile. They do sometimes travel blacked out, in early war, you shouldn't attack if the nationality is unknown, but in early 1940, like I stated earlier, the ROE are changed in the coastal British and US waters. (I know I have received these orders using GWX, so I don't know if you'll received them if you are using vanilla SH3).
Also, the Prize Regulations were unofficially dropped about in November 1939, since it was very difficult for U-bootsmen to really abide by it.
Also, the Prize Regulations were unofficially dropped about in November 1939, since it was very difficult for U-bootsmen to really abide by it.
IIRC the Prize regulations were never dropped, and actually followed still very late in the war in remote places where there was no air cover. What happened at the end of 1939-start of 1940 is that british merchants were armed with at least one deck gun in the stern, and that converted them into legitimate targets for surprise attack, as they were no longer a "civilian" vessel. Same can be said of unarmed merchants that travelled in a convoy escorted by warships, or at where at least one armed merchant was present.
All I know is they had night oculars "Zeiss" very efficient (Jochen Brennecke "The hunters and the hunted").
In the game, it's easy: I open fire on anything that does not have their navigation lights on.
Mistake is a part of the war.
:salute:
http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/13/87/46/18/5379410.jpg
They never were "officially" dropped, but in the British coastal areas and US coastal waters, in February 1940, attacks on unidentifiable ships (blacked out) were authorized, has long as they were done while submerged, to give the impression that the ship would have hit a mine. In the rest of the world, the official BdU standing orders, were to follow the Prize Regulations, but like I said, it is very difficult for a U-boat to fully adhere to these regulations. Unofficially, Germany was conducting an unrestricted submarine warfare.
maillemaker
03-22-10, 03:41 PM
There's no good way to do it, short of using the external camera view, which I have disabled.
About your only option is to sail right up next to the target and run up the scope and try to make it out.
Or, just assume if it's dark it's OK to shoot. :)
Steve
+1 :D
+2
Oh yeah, another thing that might help. Make everything on the screen and around your playing environment as dark as possible. Your eyes cannot detect faint colors well enough if they are blinded out by bright objects.
I do this a fair bit.
I open fire on anything that does not have their navigation lights on.
This.
No lights? They must be up to no good.
Sailor Steve
03-22-10, 03:56 PM
it's easy: I open fire on anything that does not have their navigation lights on.
Mistake is a part of the war.
And since only GWX puts those into the game, and since a lot of them are still not lit, you must sink a lot of neutrals.
Strangely: never.
Probably because I use the contact color mod lol.
:D
Flopper
03-22-10, 04:42 PM
I really would like to have the 1940 version of this on the boot:
http://www.amazon.com/000-Candlepower-12V-Halogen-Spotlight/dp/B001ECH9SE
frau kaleun
03-22-10, 05:34 PM
Strangely: never.
Probably because I use the contact color mod lol.
:D
:yeah:
KL-alfman
03-22-10, 07:19 PM
I really would like to have the 1940 version of this on the boot:
http://www.amazon.com/000-Candlepower-12V-Halogen-Spotlight/dp/B001ECH9SE
would be convenient to spot the flags but it would drain your batteries as well!
Reverie
03-22-10, 08:02 PM
How do you identify what nationality ships are at night? I had this problem the other night whilst following a Cargo ship. No matter how close I got I could not make out the flag colours. I thought, "I know. I wonder if it'll be easier to make out if I surface". No it wasn't and then it opened fire on me. Doh!
Any tips?
Your Watch Officer on the bridge will validate a Target for you when asked.
Reverie
Early in the war, or in open water, I try to time my attacks at dawn or dusk in order to make a proper identification. Trying to detect a flag color in the pitch dark of night is nearly impossible.
After the US joins the war, I usually figure that anything without running lights going to or coming from the UK must be hostile. A risk, yes, but what's war without a little risk. (P.S. don't tell BdU)
Capt. Teach
03-22-10, 09:30 PM
I don't know what The Reich's take is on it .... and I don't know what other Captains do ... I can only tell you what I do ...
I am the Captain of my vessel ... when I park off the Englander's coast ... and they are heading for it ... as far as I am concerned ... they are one of three types ... an enemy, a neutral, or an ally.
If an enemy, then my decision is made. LOS!
If a neutral, then they should know better than to enter a war zone. LOS!
If an ally, then there is only two reasons to be steaming to England ... they are traitors ... LOS!
or .... they are stupid and shouldn't be allowed to represent the Kriegsmarine. LOS! :yeah:
Seriously though, make your best guess ... I can't see them either.
Paul Riley
03-23-10, 03:13 AM
Last night heading through the channel I accidentally sank a Romanian merchant,I was convinced it was a bloody French swine.
Be VERY careful if you find yourself in the same situation,yellow is difficult to make out and could be mistaken for white at night.
:nope:
sharkbit
03-23-10, 08:33 AM
There's a mod out there that makes the flags "brighter" at night.
Try this:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=152479
:)
When message box that pops up when enemy ship is spotted is allowed then it is easy - when it comes up then vessel is enemy, if not then it is neutral.
Paul Riley
03-23-10, 10:42 AM
There's a mod out there that makes the flags "brighter" at night.
Try this:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=152479
:)
Does it ONLY make the flags a bit brighter and doesnt alter any other parameters making ID'ing easier?.This sounds a great little mod because the TOTALLY black flags at night is unrealistic in my opinion.
Just downloaded it,thanks pal :up:
Sailor Steve
03-23-10, 11:00 AM
Part of the problem is the way the newest (and best) monitors work. I'm still stuck with a 19" CRT that weighs nine thousand pounds. If anything my nights are too bright and I have no trouble seeing flags.
Captain Nemo
03-23-10, 11:02 AM
For lone ships, another cheat is that if you are using TC greater than 8x, then when a ship is spotted if TC drops to 1x then it is an enemy ship, in addition once the ship is spotted, if you can't go faster than 32x it's an enemy. If when ship spotted is announced by your watch crew and the TC drops only to 8x it's a neutral, plus you will be able to go faster than 32x TC after the ship is spotted.
I have wondered if this can be rectified in SH Commander as I find it a bit annoying as I know in advance whether it's an enemy or neutral purely by seeing if TC has dropped to 1x or 8x when ship spotted is announced.
Nemo
Capt. Morgan
03-23-10, 11:09 AM
Does it ONLY make the flags a bit brighter and doesnt alter any other parameters making ID'ing easier?.
It only effects the flags, and only enough to make them identifiable at quite close range.
Paul Riley
03-23-10, 11:12 AM
It only effects the flags, and only enough to make them identifiable at quite close range.
Sounds just like what i'm after :03:
Sailor Steve
03-23-10, 11:47 AM
For lone ships, another cheat is that if you are using TC greater than 8x, then when a ship is spotted if TC drops to 1x then it is an enemy ship, in addition once the ship is spotted, if you can't go faster than 32x it's an enemy. If when ship spotted is announced by your watch crew and the TC drops only to 8x it's a neutral, plus you will be able to go faster than 32x TC after the ship is spotted.
I have wondered if this can be rectified in SH Commander as I find it a bit annoying as I know in advance whether it's an enemy or neutral purely by seeing if TC has dropped to 1x or 8x when ship spotted is announced.
Nemo
That's odd to me. I use Commander and I get dropped to 1x for every ship spotted - enemy, neutral and friendly. Makes leaving my home port a lot of 'fun', but I use it anyway.
frau kaleun
03-23-10, 12:12 PM
That's odd to me. I use Commander and I get dropped to 1x for every ship spotted - enemy, neutral and friendly. Makes leaving my home port a lot of 'fun', but I use it anyway.
Send WO Bernard to his quarters, you're gonna be hanging out on the bridge anyway, right?
That way he won't be gesichting yet another schiff every 2.3 seconds.
Flopper
03-23-10, 01:08 PM
Send WO Bernard to his quarters, you're gonna be hanging out on the bridge anyway, right?
That way he won't be gesichting yet another schiff every 2.3 seconds.
Great idea... naptime for him next time we pull out of port. :salute:
Part of the problem is the way the newest (and best) monitors work. I'm still stuck with a 19" CRT that weighs nine thousand pounds. If anything my nights are too bright and I have no trouble seeing flags.
I've wondered about this myself...
sharkbit
03-23-10, 01:18 PM
I think video cards may have a lot to do with it to.
My old rig had a ATI card with a CRT monitor and I couldn't see anything at night.
New rig has a NVIDIA card and a LCD monitor and the nights are much brighter.
My old eyes prefer the latter.
:)
Paul Riley
03-23-10, 01:36 PM
I think video cards may have a lot to do with it to.
My old rig had a ATI card with a CRT monitor and I couldn't see anything at night.
New rig has a NVIDIA card and a LCD monitor and the nights are much brighter.
My old eyes prefer the latter.
:)
I have an ATI X800 Pro card with a new 20" LCD,and after a LOT of tweaking with the brightness and contrast I would have to say my monitor and games are pretty much perfect now.The higher resolutions via the SH3 res fix mod is a godsend too! :rock:
Sailor Steve
03-23-10, 02:35 PM
Send WO Bernard to his quarters, you're gonna be hanging out on the bridge anyway, right?
That way he won't be gesichting yet another schiff every 2.3 seconds.
Unfortunately it didn't make any difference. I no longer got the announcement, but I still get dropped to 1x every three seconds. On the other hand I do most of my harbor cruising at 1x; it just makes it hard when I'm going through the Canal.
But I found a mod which makes some difference.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=154745&highlight=ship+spotted
I've just put the latest version up at Subsim Downloads:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1654
It works and it works well, at least for me.
Jimbuna
03-23-10, 02:44 PM
For lone ships, another cheat is that if you are using TC greater than 8x, then when a ship is spotted if TC drops to 1x then it is an enemy ship, in addition once the ship is spotted, if you can't go faster than 32x it's an enemy. If when ship spotted is announced by your watch crew and the TC drops only to 8x it's a neutral, plus you will be able to go faster than 32x TC after the ship is spotted.
I have wondered if this can be rectified in SH Commander as I find it a bit annoying as I know in advance whether it's an enemy or neutral purely by seeing if TC has dropped to 1x or 8x when ship spotted is announced.
Nemo
That's precisely my experience, I've yet to find a workaround.
frau kaleun
03-23-10, 02:52 PM
But I found a mod which makes some difference.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=154745&highlight=ship+spotted
I've just put the latest version up at Subsim Downloads:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1654
It works and it works well, at least for me.
Awesome, I'll check it out.
Captain Nemo
03-24-10, 02:36 AM
That's odd to me. I use Commander and I get dropped to 1x for every ship spotted - enemy, neutral and friendly. Makes leaving my home port a lot of 'fun', but I use it anyway.
Odd indeed, as jimbuna reports having the same issue as me and hasn't discovered a workaround. Can you post your Commander TC settings so that we can try to resolve this issue?
Nemo
@ Jimbuna and Capt Nemo,
In the TC settings in SH3Commander, look for the 'When hunting' field and whack it up to whatever your upper limit is, then you won't be able to use the TC as an indicator of whether the ship is enemy or not. I have my TC go back to x1 whenever a ship is spotted, whatever it's allegiance but I too hated when I could bump up TC and if it didn't stop on 64 it wasn't worth shooting at.
I have my 'When being hunted' option at max too so I can't tell if I've been detected, bar the flood of ashcans and gunfire... :88)
Captain Nemo
03-24-10, 10:33 AM
@ Jimbuna and Capt Nemo,
In the TC settings in SH3Commander, look for the 'When hunting' field and whack it up to whatever your upper limit is, then you won't be able to use the TC as an indicator of whether the ship is enemy or not. I have my TC go back to x1 whenever a ship is spotted, whatever it's allegiance but I too hated when I could bump up TC and if it didn't stop on 64 it wasn't worth shooting at.
I have my 'When being hunted' option at max too so I can't tell if I've been detected, bar the flood of ashcans and gunfire... :88)
Thanks Damo. I'll have a look at these settings.
Nemo
Canovaro
03-24-10, 04:34 PM
Oh yeah, another thing that might help. Make everything on the screen and around your playing environment as dark as possible. Your eyes cannot detect faint colors well enough if they are blinded out by bright objects.
A very good advice.
Jimbuna
03-24-10, 05:00 PM
These settings are as close to a compromise I have been able to reach.
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/5395/68568609.jpg (http://img97.imageshack.us/i/68568609.jpg/)
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