IF you were going to buy a new video card it would be??

[goldwing]

My first post here so be easy on me :) OK i havent played pc games in years. My last time being flight sims like falcon4 and janes f/a18 etc. But when i saw a subsim i had to give it a try. My problem is low framerates and sometimes a crash and i hate using low settings for anything let alone a sim with the detail SH5 has. I run windows 7 64bit with a intel quad core 2.4, 2 gigs ram with a evga gt8800 that runs no hotter then 49 degrees F. I also have the asus XONARHDAV1.3 hdmi audio card because this pc is my main htpc for blurays. Anyway all drivers are up to date now which helped alot. My question is i have a friend willing to sell me a
evga GeForce GTS 250 superclocked and was wondering if that would help my case at all or should i go with something newer?
Thanks

[Webster]

its my understanding that the 200 series cards are a very minor improvement over the 8800 9800 cards (they all share the same G92 GPU) so i wouldnt bother switching for what will barely be a noticable change if any over what you have now.

[HanSolo78]

Performance improvement from Nvidia 9800gt (8800gt) to gtx285 would be 50%.
From 9800gt(8800gt) to Ati HD5870 improvement about 70% and upgrade from 9800gt (8800gt) to new upcoming NVidia gtx480 approximately about 90-100%!

All numbers refer to 1650x1050 screen resolution!

[Ark]

its my understanding that the 200 series cards are a very minor improvement over the 8800 9800 cards (they all share the same G92 GPU) so i wouldnt bother switching for what will barely be a noticable change if any over what you have now.


My GTX 285 thinks otherwise. lol

Or are you referring to GT/S series cards?

The OP should wait and see how the new Nvidia "Fermi" comares with ATI's most recent release as well as ATI's "coming soon" 2GB versions of the 5800 series ad 4GB versions of the 5900. However, the "Fermi" is suspected to only yield about a 10% increase in performace over ATI's latest offering ad will cost more (not to mention the power requirement....omg). Lastly, nobody is sure of the "10%" Fermi has over ATI is oly in certain circumstances. Either way, wait for Nvidia's latest product, see how that performs, then wait to see what ATI's response it (either price or hardware wise).

[Kresge]

GTX cards are the current high performance cards; GTS are more or less cheap upgrades/repackaging of old cards.

Check Tom's Hardware site for charts showing actual performance levels of Nvidia and ATi cards. Makes it easy to sort through.
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/graphics-cards,1.html

[Ark]

GTX cards are the current high performance cards; GTS are more or less cheap upgrades/repackaging of old cards.

Check Tom's Hardware site for charts showing actual performance levels of Nvidia and ATi cards. Makes it easy to sort through.
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/graphics-cards,1.html

Go to Hardocp.com as well. It's one of the best sites on the web for straight truth when it comes to system hardware performance.

With regards to GTX cards being the curret "high performance" cards...that's sort of gone the way of the do-do bird with the release of the ATI 5870. It pretty much beats up on the lastest GTX cards from Nvidia outside of the GTX 295....and the ATI 5970 beats up on that one for the most part. lol

[CaptainHaplo]

Ya Bilge Rat - ya posted this in the wrong forum! (Should be in the pc section) I am just giving you a hard time - let me be the first to say - WELCOME ABOARD!!!

With that said, the 250 is the low end of the GT cards. Since your talking about a GTS and not a GTX - I would have to say your likely better off avoiding it - depending on how much your friend wants for it. A new GTS 250 is around $110 bucks - but given your current rig I have to say the 250 is still going to be the bottleneck.

The GTX line (from 260 -295) is solid for gaming now and in the near future. Of course - the 295 is more future proof than the 260. Overclocked 260's run about 200 bucks now. Prices rise from there.

Bottom line - your not likely to see a huge improvement from the 8800 to a GTS 250. There would be some - but if your talking more than 30-40 bucks - I would say no to it.

Again - Welcome Aboard!

[BigBANGtheory]

You should wait for the Nvidia 480 release really, currently best bang for your buck is the Ati 5850.

[Barso]

I have the GTX295 but be careful about sli profiles.
It is essentially 2 gpu's sandwiched together so needs an sli profile to work.
SH5 does not so it is currently only running of one of the cards.
Wait for the new fermi cards.

[Lzs von swe]

Hi and welcome goldwing:up:

The GTS 250 is pretty much a upgraded 9800 card, which is pretty much a upgraded 8800 card. If you don´t want to spend a lot of money go for a GTX 260 896Mb. It will be a noticeable performance boost from the 8800.

[demowhc]

If you dont mind using ATi the HD5850 is clearly the best performance per dollar around atm, not only that it is faster than any single gpu card available from Nvidia.

trust me, I have 2!

[Arclight]

Actually, the 5870 would be the fastest single GPU card.

Trust me, I have none. :know:


Current pick would be GTX275 for me, but waiting to see what Nvidia has lined up.

[ironkross]

I'm currently using an Nvidia GeForce 9800GT(Silent Hunter runs great on it) until the 480/470 is available. Then I'll use the 9800 in the Physx slot.

[richardphat]

HD 5750
I planned and bought it recently.
Reason is budget limit, because I couldnt pay over 230+ for a new video card and a new power supply.
I did the right choice.
The HD 5750 works fine for me.

[The_Phoenix]

Talk about some ATI fanboys in here :-?. From personal expierience an upgrade to the 200 gtx series would be a huge difference. if u want to wait for the still not released gtx 300 (heck if u even want to get it because its gonna be expensive) then theres no point in getting a 5000 series radeon card. At least something better then that 8800, i have a superclocked 9800 GT from EVGA and i couldnt be more happy. :yeah: oh yeah and i run SH5 maxed out.

[Arclight]

Except for shadows, I take it? As far as I know, noone with Nvidia can run it with shadows on. :doh:

[CaptainHaplo]

No one said the GTX would not be an upgrade. However - the OP was asking about a GTS card. The GTX seriies is much faster than GTS series. As such, spending on a GTS will not give the OP a major boost.

[Lzs von swe]

Except for shadows, I take it? As far as I know, noone with Nvidia can run it with shadows on. :doh:

:hmmm: must have missed something here, I have shadows maxed out with no problems with my GTX 260.
One note on this card though, it needs lots of power. And my ASUS card needs 2 power feeds.

[Arclight]

Lot's of poeple are having this issue, me too on 8800GTS 512.

What driver version are you using? 32 or 64bit? XP or later? :06:

[Task Force]

Performance improvement from Nvidia 9800gt (8800gt) to gtx285 would be 50%.
From 9800gt(8800gt) to Ati HD5870 improvement about 70% and upgrade from 9800gt (8800gt) to new upcoming NVidia gtx480 approximately about 90-100%!

All numbers refer to 1650x1050 screen resolution!

Huh... they are comeing out with a 480 GTX... (link in possiable please) thought they were going for the 300s?:hmmm:

[Arclight]

No they reserved that for some other line of cards, iirc. New ones will be 480 and 470.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&ei=ViSoS-ndOIve-Qb3rKCVAQ&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&ved=0CAUQBSgA&q=gtx+480&spell=1

[Lzs von swe]

Lot's of poeple are having this issue, me too on 8800GTS 512.

What driver version are you using? 32 or 64bit? XP or later? :06:

I´m on 196.21, I did use the 196.75 without any issues but rolled back to .21 for safety.
Vista 32bit. Yes I know.. but I have learned to work around all Vista "things" and like it now.

[Arclight]

Win7 is not that different. Vista was just a little... "tricky" to work with at release. ;)

Thanks for the info, starting to think it's an issue on 64-bit Nvidia systems only. :hmmm:

[Konovalov]

I'd like to see what the new Nvidia Fermi cards can do and we should find out hopefully in the next week. However I am really impressed by the Eyefinity technology used by the new ATI cards. 3 screens in portait mode for flight sims looks aswesome. Unless Fermi blows me away I can see myself defecting from the big green giant that is Nvidia and over to the big red giant.

[Task Force]

Yea... I think fermi will be pretty good from what ive seen so far...

I never have really liked ATI, herd they have driver issues sometimes.

[Konovalov]

Yea... I think fermi will be pretty good from what ive seen so far...

I never have really liked ATI, herd they have driver issues sometimes.
Nvidia tried outdoing them recetly with some wacked up drivers. Something where it made Nvidia owners cards turn the fan down or off entirely. It was so bad Nvidia had to actually withdraw the drivers. Thankfully I didn't jump on the new drivers myself on day 1. I think they have corrected the problem now.

[thehiredgun]

I would like someone to recommend me a good video card for SH 3. I have a novilis older computer that currently has a 1650 ati video card in it & I am starting to have real problems with the video.

[CaptainHaplo]

A few questions Hiredgun....

What is your budget - so we can advise you in the price range of what you are willing to spend (otherwise you just get recommendations to spend 300+ bucks on a card you won't ever use all of).

Second - does the pc you use (since you said it was older) use PCI-e or an AGP slot? You may have to open the box to find out, we can help if your not familiar with that.

Lastly - what is the current rating of your computer power supply. Newer cards often require a bit more OOMPH in this department, so knowing what you have we can tailor the answer to that - or suggest a ps upgrade if needed.

[thehiredgun]

I have a ATI Radeon X1550 PCI 256MB VGA DVI-I TV Out in it & the video is not good. This is an old card I think. I do not want to go real expensive but I want a good long lasting video card. This one cost 116. It does not have AGP slots only PCI-e slot. Whee do I find out what the current rating of my pc is? I also have another computer with a ATI Radeon 9780 in it that needs replacing too. This computer is about 1 1/2 years old. You can clearly see in the video allot of lines & shakieness in the picture. It is a pci-e too.

[CaptainHaplo]

OK - the 1550 came in PCI-e, AGP and standard PCI slot styles....

I am going to assume you know the difference and are sure its PCI-e.

With that said, under 100 bucks your best bet is either a 4770 or 4850 ATI card. Both will handle SH3/4 with no problem, and could probably deal with SH5 at low detail.

Your power supply will need to be at least 450W and have a 6-pin pci-e power connector. That is the minimum stated by ATI - but depending on your CPU - and other devices - 450W is pretty low.

To see how big the PSU is - just take off the side cover of the PC. On the PSU itself there will be a data plate/sticker that will give you its specifications.

[thehiredgun]

It is a regular pci card. I really appreciate your knowledge.

[CaptainHaplo]

OW.. a standard pci slot... ok - that makes it alot more difficult.

About the best your going to be able to do with a standard PCI slot is a HD 4350. Should handle SH3 without an issue, though the slot could still bottleneck you. One source I found was the following:

http://www.directron.com/ap4350512md2h.html

I can't speak to the seller though - never dealt with them.

On the positive side - with a PCI slot, you don't have to worry about your PSU rating nearly as much.

[thehiredgun]

Thanks for the info

[CaptainHaplo]

NP Mate - Good luck.

[thehiredgun]

CaptainHaplo my newer computer Novolis has a ati radeon 4870 pci express in it & it causes some video problems in it. Can you recommend an ATI upgrade for this card. This computer is only 1 year old. It's the new ones that all all usb ports. I can spend up to $200.00 for it. Thanks

[CaptainHaplo]

Best ATI card under $200 right now would be a 5770 card.

I would go with a solid manufacturer like XFX - can't beat a lifetime warranty!

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5316156&CatId=3585

You could get em a few bucks cheaper, but not with the warranty terms.

However, before you go spending the cash on something like that - two things I have to ask.

Is the PC/Vid card in question still under warranty? If so, then I would go that route to save the cash. If not, then the next question is - why did it die so fast? Any chance the machine is overheating? Would hate to see you spend on a new card and have the same problem down the road.

[thehiredgun]

What do u do if the computer is overheating? The computer runs 24/7. most of the time? We have takened it to the place we got it & they say they can not find nothing wrong with it. But they do not run it constantly with the game too. It crashes allot too. It is not very old. we paid allot of money for this Nobilis computer.

[CaptainHaplo]

First thing to do is verify that it is overheating. If it is, that could cause crashes and video corruption.

Best way to check is to use an application that will monitor the temps realtime. I use the CPUID Hardware Monitor. The price is right (as its FREE!!!)

http://www.cpuid.com/hwmonitor.php

Install and run it - then run your games. What you want to look at are the third and fourth sections. The third is your CPU temperatures (plural since you likely have at least a dual core cpu) - the fourth is your graphics card temperature.

Heat wise - you don't want your CPU to ever hit above 60 degrees C.
The GPU (Graphics card) per ATI can go as high as 104 degrees C. Preferably, you want it at 95 or under, but max is 104.

Run your game for a while, and every once in a while - Alt Tab out and check the temps. If you see them climbing into dangerous territory (its ok if it heats up - just it should stabilize), then you know that whatever your playing is stressing the component that is heating up too much.

Heat buildup can come from any number of things - but in most PC's they end up almost always being due to crappy air flow. So first off - where is the PC box itself? Is it in one of those "hideaway" computer compartments under a desk? Places like that are enclosed - meaning that even if its pusing air well - its working with hot air so its going to heat up. (My rig has to come out of such a cubby and have the side off due to air flow issues - I am dealing with it only because I will be switching to liquid cooling soon.) Make sure it has plenty of room around it to get air. Also make sure all the fans are turning in the case, and see if you have spots in the case for additional fans to help suck in cooler air and exhaust the hot stuff.

If you are overheating - take the pc back to the shop - and show them how you overheat (make em run the game or whatever of 10 minutes or so and tell em what temps you were seeing) - let em know that they have to keep the box cooler - but only do this if you know that where you keep the box has plenty of airflow. If you keep it in an enclosed spot and it heats up, pull it out and play it awhile just sitting in the open - see if that solves the issue first. If so, fans won't help - you gotta give it air. If it overheats in the open - then they need additional fans to keep it cool.

Of course - if overheating isn't the issue, then all this is moot. However, the fact they can't find a problem - and the corruption / crashing isn't constant - but is there in gaming - reinforces the heat possibility.

Let us know if there is more we can do. Good luck.

[thehiredgun]

First thing to do is verify that it is overheating. If it is, that could cause crashes and video corruption.

Best way to check is to use an application that will monitor the temps realtime. I use the CPUID Hardware Monitor. The price is right (as its FREE!!!)

http://www.cpuid.com/hwmonitor.php

Install and run it - then run your games. What you want to look at are the third and fourth sections. The third is your CPU temperatures (plural since you likely have at least a dual core cpu) - the fourth is your graphics card temperature.

Heat wise - you don't want your CPU to ever hit above 60 degrees C.
The GPU (Graphics card) per ATI can go as high as 104 degrees C. Preferably, you want it at 95 or under, but max is 104.

Run your game for a while, and every once in a while - Alt Tab out and check the temps. If you see them climbing into dangerous territory (its ok if it heats up - just it should stabilize), then you know that whatever your playing is stressing the component that is heating up too much.

Heat buildup can come from any number of things - but in most PC's they end up almost always being due to crappy air flow. So first off - where is the PC box itself? Is it in one of those "hideaway" computer compartments under a desk? Places like that are enclosed - meaning that even if its pusing air well - its working with hot air so its going to heat up. (My rig has to come out of such a cubby and have the side off due to air flow issues - I am dealing with it only because I will be switching to liquid cooling soon.) Make sure it has plenty of room around it to get air. Also make sure all the fans are turning in the case, and see if you have spots in the case for additional fans to help suck in cooler air and exhaust the hot stuff.

If you are overheating - take the pc back to the shop - and show them how you overheat (make em run the game or whatever of 10 minutes or so and tell em what temps you were seeing) - let em know that they have to keep the box cooler - but only do this if you know that where you keep the box has plenty of airflow. If you keep it in an enclosed spot and it heats up, pull it out and play it awhile just sitting in the open - see if that solves the issue first. If so, fans won't help - you gotta give it air. If it overheats in the open - then they need additional fans to keep it cool.

Of course - if overheating isn't the issue, then all this is moot. However, the fact they can't find a problem - and the corruption / crashing isn't constant - but is there in gaming - reinforces the heat possibility.

Let us know if there is more we can do. Good luck.
Thanks I will try that & let u know.

The computer does not seem to be over heating so I guess I get a new video card. The one u sent me is not VGA supported. Is there one to the one u sent me compatible with VGA support?

[thehiredgun]

Captain Haplo can you help me find a new video card, The one u sent me is not VGA supported & that's what I need unless u know some way or adapter I can use for this card. I am interested in the XFX 5770 u sent the link to. Thanks. Anyone else can help too Thanks to all your helps.

[CaptainHaplo]

Hmmm - ok - not sure what you mean by VGA support. Maybe its just been too long a day at work, but I am drawing a blank. Do you mean it needs to have the standard vga plug on it (the 15 pin D style)?

[Arclight]

Think he does, and if so, he'll be happy to know most cards come with a DVI-VGA (DE-15 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VGA_connector), whatever) adapter.

[CaptainHaplo]

Yes that was my thought - if your thinking the standard db15 for the monitor - all the newer cards include a HDMI to db15 adapter.

[thehiredgun]

Thanks everybody

[CaptainHaplo]

Thats what we are here for! :yeah:

BTW - congrats - thats one sweet card your gonna get!

[Task Force]

So... any news on the 300s, I still think they will be good... (I hope they are alot better than the 400s)

[thehiredgun]

anyone know where I can find the d/l for direct x 11?

[Feuer Frei!]

anyone know where I can find the d/l for direct x 11?



http://www.microsoft.com/games/en-US/aboutGFW/pages/directx.aspx

This should get you going.

[CaptainHaplo]

You have to be running windows 7 to use DX 11 - you can't download it - its built into the OS.

Vista uses DX10, but there is no update to DX 11 currently downloadable via ms search.

Windows XP is limitied to 9c.

MS only allows downloading of 9c or below. 10 and 11 are not "downloadable" installers.

[thehiredgun]

I have windows xp professionsl & it runs direct x 10 too

[CaptainHaplo]

You must be running the Alky project or KM stuff then. Microsoft's official position is that XP only goes up to 9c. The items above are unofficial ports of DX10 to XP. Nothing wrong with that - in fact I applaud those groups for doing it! Just know that its not "official" so if something screws up, MegaShaft - uhm - Microsoft isnt going to support anything. Like they would anyway?

When cash allows - move to windows 7. :yeah:

Games that use DX10 can still run on XP only using DX9 - DX10 games are all "backward compatible" in those cases - if 9 is there they run fine - if 10 is there you get the extra bells and whistles that 10 brings to the table.

[thehiredgun]

What is the difference between windows XP & windows 7. Hopefully not like Vista.

[Feuer Frei!]

What is the difference between windows XP & windows 7. Hopefully not like Vista.

Lots, and it outshines Vista in every department. (Understatement)
In fact, Win 7 is in my opinion a master stroke by Microsoft.
It's a smooth, stable O S, and very very user-friendly.

Edit:
let's not hijack the thread though :03:

[CaptainHaplo]

XP support for all non-security issues ended in 2009 unless you have a contract with them. Security patches will still occur till 2014. You are hardware limited long term, as newer hardware will gradually not write drivers for XP, though that will take a few years yet.

To answer you - windows 7 is what Vista SHOULD have been. Its stable, user friendly and simply works. Its fast, drivers are readily available, etc. Honestly, the GUI changes are what most users are going to notice. There are some major "under the hood" changes, particularly to the networking side of the house, but those are positives. Some of the little tweaks added to the GUI are things users love - like rotating your desktop background with various pictures if you want. The speed is great (It boots MUCH faster than XP) - memory management is solid. Overall, M$ really did a great job with this one for once.

The ONLY drawback I can list is that some very old games may give you problems. Games like Imperium Galactica II simply need to be patched (or run in a slightly lower res) to make work, while a rare few will refuse to install. The only 2 I have had that issue with are the first two Brothers in Arms games - and those are known issues with the installer that the maker refused to fix. Truly old games like Shogun Total War struggle if you use a widescreen monitor - but that isn't OS related. Super old games - DOS based stuff - if your into that - still works great because DosBox runs fine on Windows 7. Out of the many games I have had - only the two BIA games have I been totally unable to make work. That says something.

For users who have actually USED windows 7 - you will rarely find complaints. I hated vista - even once it matured into something resembling a working OS - but 7 is the way to go!

[thehiredgun]

Thanks for all the information