Is SH5 the Future of Silent Hunter? [Archive]

scrapser

03-21-10, 11:12 AM

Boats

03-21-10, 11:24 AM

I'm wondering if the new interface, sub interior, crew interaction, and all the associated "features" that were introduced with SH5 will be the new standard for sub sims from Ubisoft Romania. It concerns me because despite the fact that some people are reporting they think it's neat, I'm willing to bet it will get old fast. I also have a hunch these new elements are tied to a broader strategy to make a sub sim that could be played more easily on a console (streamline the controls by minimizing how things happen and are initiated). In other words, Ubisoft may be trying to move the franchise to consoles were sales may be higher if they can attract a large enough crowd.

The DRM is a totally separate issue which I have a feeling will go away as it seems to be causing more ill will than anticipated.

You actually think that with SH5 the way it is they're thinking of the future? Man that's optimism in the extreme.:yeah:
Hard to believe anyone is thinking of Ubi ever doing another subsim. If they do it'll probrably be a empty CD container with a pretty picture on the front. Just like this SH, a pretty picture on an empty box, like their promises.

Yeah, I know of what I speak, I caved and bought it out of my monthly allowance. My optimism is that SH 5 will go from where it is to what it can be, but that's where it ends for me, Ubi can't do subsims, only the modders. It's like this house I had built by a less than honest contractor, he built me a fixer upper.
There should be a program on PBS "This New House" with tips on fixing the mess left by contractors. This is the second time I've had to do it, and I won't have another house built. Maybe the same idea can be started with a forum outside of mods, fixing this new sim.

SteamWake

03-21-10, 11:29 AM

It may be the new standard for eye candy and first person perspective. A good platform to build upon.

They put a tremdous amount of work into graphical details and a skeleton of a RPG system and forgot little things like well a compass.

But it just fails in so many ways. Without the modding community it would be for me unplayable.

No I'm afraid this may be the last of the SH.

Boats

03-21-10, 11:39 AM

I agree, there's the ability to fix it (from what I'm reading), but for someone who wanted a sim without the need of an internet connection it's BAD. And I'm not referring to the DRM, even without DRM you'd need an internet connection just to fix it.

Ducimus

03-21-10, 11:39 AM

As a software platform, i think it is. Assuming the DRM goes away, and it's poperly patched, with a couple years worth of mods thrown in on top, and it's my opinon that nobody will mention Sh3 except when waxing nostalgia, or running a single core CPU.

SH4 will still be around, unless a fleet boat conversion comes in, which i think is entirely possible if the 3d models in SH5's format/style existed for the exterior and interior.

V.C. Sniper

03-21-10, 04:40 PM

if u want it to be, yes

Ducimus

03-21-10, 09:48 PM

You can't model the effects of hydrodyamic resistance in SH3 or Sh4. In SH5 you can.

Sledgehammer427

03-21-10, 10:00 PM

SH4 will still be around, unless a fleet boat conversion comes in, which i think is entirely possible if the 3d models in SH5's format/style existed for the exterior and interior.

I think that a fleet boat version using the engine of SHV would be better than the current U-boat setup. With A fleet boat, there's more room to move (inside and out,) and the campaign would be a bit more believeable than the dynamic campign we see now. (I'd love to think of a "one U-boat changes the war" story, but we all know it's not possible) The RPG element is good, but it needs to be far more expanded for long pacific patrols. The attack style enforced by the current UI would be better suited to american-style attacks, maybe that's just because I haven't done much research into a german submerged torpedo attack.

That and the dev (in case it's not ubi) team wouldn't have a problem finding suitable interiors to build their models from. A few improvements to the models from SHIV and you have a totally fresh sim, one that I would buy in a heartbeat, I might add.

Vandecker

03-22-10, 12:22 AM

In other words, Ubisoft may be trying to move the franchise to consoles were sales may be higher if they can attract a large enough crowd.

Bite your tongue!!!:eek:

mookiemookie

03-22-10, 12:25 AM

Cavell

03-22-10, 02:33 AM

In other words, Ubisoft may be trying to move the franchise to consoles were sales may be higher if they can attract a large enough crowd.

That makes perfect sense, actually, and the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced.

The DRM is a totally separate issue which I have a feeling will go away as it seems to be causing more ill will than anticipated.

But it's not preventing many sales. The DRM's not going anywhere.

Noren

03-22-10, 03:21 AM

I have to give it to them, If one had a good gaming computer you could get fingerlickingly good graphics. Unfortunately its only skin deep, the interior has parts missing and the zombie-crew are appauling to me.

Reece

03-22-10, 04:24 AM

JamesT73J

03-22-10, 05:49 AM

SH5 is a disaster of all SH series. I wish UBI would stop making anything related to Submarines in future. Despite all their "experience" in SH series development, they did not learned a thing - Bugs and more bugs are all they can offer.

The amount of utter rubbish that has been spouted on this board of late has rivalled the worst excesses of the UBI forums from the IL2 heyday.

You'd rather no SH series at all? You'd rather the product line stopped at SH4? You'd rather there be no new historic submarine simulation titles on the market at all?

SH5 is not a disaster. It works better than SH4 did on release. It has greater potential than any predecessors.

Immacolata

03-22-10, 06:01 AM

The amount of utter rubbish that has been spouted on this board of late has rivalled the worst excesses of the UBI forums from the IL2 heyday.

You'd rather no SH series at all? You'd rather the product line stopped at SH4? You'd rather there be no new historic submarine simulation titles on the market at all?

SH5 is not a disaster. It works better than SH4 did on release. It has greater potential than any predecessors.

Well, hyperbole and attentionw*ring is never in short supply post-release on fan forums. Or rubbish, as you call it. Alas. "It is a slap in the face, a disaster, someone call in a lawyer, boycott it, I am going to pirate it, this is the end, why I wont play this game." Etc. Ad nauseam.

To be honest, right now I don't even know what to believe about SH5, which has made me quite wary with my money.
So I am going to see what this DRM-thingy ends up with. Ubi will release Settlers 7 in a few days, perhaps sporting an upgrade to their OSP-bull****. One can hope that Ubi shrugs it off and carries their vision through for Silent Hunter V. I am pretty sure that what we have now is not what their intention was.

captainprid

03-22-10, 06:07 AM

For me this is the future of SH. Having played to death SHIII and then GWX, I gave up quite early on with SHIV. I couldn't wait for SHV, I just wish they had given it to some of the really experienced guys on here for Beta testing before a full release, actually, i'm suprised that they didn't. I love the 3D engine and interactivity of the game. I wish some of the interactions with crew were better...,.why would you keep asking the same question over and over????
Fortunately, my laptop is up to the graphics but from what I have read, I seem to be in the minority and I think it very unfair that som,e people have had to buy a new PC just to play the game...
Sure there is lots wrong with the game... No Compass, AI crap etc etc etc but a lot of these faults have been sorted by modders already and hopefully if UBI will read this board and sort out other problems with a patch sooner rather than later.....
I am very suprised to hear people saying they don't want another SH or that this will be the end.... Personally I will always keep buying new installments of the game as long as I have money in my pocket

Bilge_Rat

03-22-10, 06:17 AM

Medzell

03-22-10, 06:27 AM

God! Do you people never do anything other than bleat?

If you don't like it, don't run it. Stick with something you DO like and stop behaving like petulant children

Faamecanic

03-22-10, 06:49 AM

There is no Silent Hunter future. After this debacle, it's done. Hope you enjoy what you've got, and we can all figure out how to make this platform into whatever we want, be it fleet boats or Cold War, because my gut feeling is this is it.

Sadly I have to agree with mookiemookie...the SH franchise is done with this release.

The last three releases have been progessively worse at release. And with each release UBI blames lagging sales on "people not being interested in a complex sub sim", so they release this turd called SH5...dumbed down and incomplete. Im sure UBI plans on killing this franchise. :nope: :down:

Faamecanic

03-22-10, 06:52 AM

unlike a lot of posters, I form my own opinion from actually playing the game. Now 3 weeks in, I can say without a doubt that SH5 is one fine simulation.

The amount of actual bugs is fairly small and comparable to SH3/4 when released. What is more amazing are the many improvements to the SH5 code that give it such a great potential. With a few patches and some TLC from modders, SH5 could be the new standard in submarine simulations.

for example:

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/6486/eagle0001.jpg

yes, it has map updates on and this is eye candy, but how cool is that periscope station? everything you need is on one screen. The TAI map can be dragged into any shape you want.

"yes, it has map updates on and this is eye candy, but how cool is that periscope station? everything you need is on one screen. The TAI map can be dragged into any shape you want"

And that my friend is why a lot of us DO NOT like SH5... how many Uboat captains knew exactly how far ships ASDIC and hydrophones could hear them while submerged (or on the surface for that matter).

That is why a lot of people say this is too dumbed down.

msxyz

03-22-10, 06:53 AM

A better question would be: Does the Silent Hunter series still have a future after SH5? Imho, no :shifty:

Faamecanic

03-22-10, 06:55 AM

Immacolata

03-22-10, 06:57 AM

However, Firestorm Preachers, Doomsday Cultists and Fin de Siecle-theorists are having a field day.:woot:

Guys, Hollywood taught us that an instructor cannot kill off his characters or ideas if the money men smells a franchise. Either they revive it with magic or sci-fi, or they just create "Kids" versions or "Prequels".

If there's money in Silent Hunter, it will survive. Or we will see "Silent Hunter - Kids". Like the Bugsy Malon version with Kaleuns in far too big hats who needs a stool to reach the periscope view :rotfl2:

Noren

03-22-10, 06:58 AM

@Bilge Rat
Yeah, Im sure it was a lot of fun sinking that carrier and watch it go down in spectacular flames but I would'nt call it a simulation, no.

Nor do I think its an adventure game, as someone said. I guess the genre action is all thats left.

tommyk

03-22-10, 07:24 AM

Cavell

03-22-10, 07:24 AM

yes, it has map updates on and this is eye candy, but how cool is that periscope station? everything you need is on one screen. The TAI map can be dragged into any shape you want.

I have to admit, that is pretty awesome. Which button fires the cruise missiles?

Blood_splat

03-22-10, 07:37 AM

The RPG element should have never been mixed with SHV. I just don't know anymore.:damn:

captainprid

03-22-10, 07:45 AM

The sad fact of the matter is that no matter how good or how crap SHV is (personally, I think it WILL be awesome) there will always be people who love it or hate it. You can't please everyone.
Also, this game will have had a very limited dev budget compared to some other games due to it's niche market

Bilge_Rat

03-22-10, 08:16 AM

"yes, it has map updates on and this is eye candy, but how cool is that periscope station? everything you need is on one screen. The TAI map can be dragged into any shape you want"

And that my friend is why a lot of us DO NOT like SH5... how many Uboat captains knew exactly how far ships ASDIC and hydrophones could hear them while submerged (or on the surface for that matter).

here is a tip: you can turn map updates "off" in the realism setting, just like in SH 3 and 4. Then you only see what you actually plot on the map yourself. Feel free to pass it on..:DL

I am only using map updates "on" to get more familiar with how the game works. It's amazing the attention to details. For example, the visual sighting range of the escorts (the grey circle) is influenced by the height of your periscope. In the example above, if my periscope was fully extended, it would already have been spotted. As you can see, from the bar in the upper left corner of the screenshot, my periscope is barely breaking the surface and the carrier was obscured by waves 80-90% of the time.

That is why a lot of people say this is too dumbed down.

no, you are saying that. Except for some excesses like the RPG elements, this game is not anymore dumbed down than SH3 or 4.

Bilge_Rat

03-22-10, 08:20 AM

Bilge_Rat

03-22-10, 08:24 AM

I have to admit, that is pretty awesome. Which button fires the cruise missiles?

There are no cruise missiles in ww2, you obviously know nothing about ww2 submarine simulations. I would recommend you read these:

http://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-U-Boat-War-Hunters-1939-1942/dp/0679640320/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269264191&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-U-Boat-War-1942-1945-Library/dp/0679640339/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_2

msxyz

03-22-10, 09:12 AM

There are no cruise missiles in ww2, you obviously know nothing about ww2 submarine simulations. I would recommend you read these:

http://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-U-Boat-War-Hunters-1939-1942/dp/0679640320/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269264191&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-U-Boat-War-1942-1945-Library/dp/0679640339/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_2I think he was ironic.

BTW, there was at least one cruise missile in WW2: The V1 :)

It could be fired either from ground or from planes. It was gyroscopically controlled (like a torpedo) and had a simple device to calculate the distance travelled using the airspeed. Upon reaching a pre-determined distance it simply entered a straight dive. No terminal guidance. It flew under its own power at about 650 km/h till the engine (an advanced, yet cost effective pulsejet) died out for lack of fuel; from there it continued to glide under its own intertia.

It was quite easy to shot down because of its straight path and because, once the engine stopped, its speed decreased to a point interception was easy for a fast fighter of the era.

SteamWake

03-22-10, 09:34 AM

Wait a second a V1 launched from an airplane ? :o

Bilge_Rat

03-22-10, 09:42 AM

I think he was ironic.

so was I...:ping:

There was also glide-bombs developped by the Luftwaffe which were similar to modern guided munitions:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/Fritz_X_side.jpg/800px-Fritz_X_side.jpg

even saw action:

Following the capitulation of Italy in 1943, Germany damaged the Italian battleship Italia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_battleship_Littorio) and sank the Roma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_battleship_Roma) with Fritz-X bombs. Attacks were also made on the USS Savannah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Savannah_(CL-42)), causing heavy damage and extensive loss of life. HMS Warspite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Warspite_(1913)) was also hit, had to be towed to Malta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malta) and was out of action for six months. The cruiser USS Philadelphia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Philadelphia_(CL-41)) was very slightly damaged by several near misses of Fritz-X bombs. The light cruiser HMS Uganda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Uganda_(66)) was also hit and put out of action for almost the entire war as a result.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glide_bomb

msxyz

03-22-10, 09:43 AM

Wait a second a V1 launched from an airplane ? :oSome Heinkel HE111 and Junkers JU89, at the end of their operational life and outclassed by the latest fighters, were converted to this purpose.

After France was taken back, Germany lost the necessary bases to attack England. Not to mention that, while the massive concrete bunkers could resist allied bombings (they even tried those 10000 lbs bombs) a plane is a much better launching platform. It's small, it can change location very fast and you don't know from which direction the missile is coming till it's too late.

In the Mediterranean sea, the Germans also tested the first TV guided missiles. I think an US merchant was the first victim of this weapon. More infos and photos can be seen at Luftarkiv.de

Sailor Steve

03-22-10, 10:06 AM

And that my friend is why a lot of us DO NOT like SH5... how many Uboat captains knew exactly how far ships ASDIC and hydrophones could hear them while submerged (or on the surface for that matter).

That is why a lot of people say this is too dumbed down.
The map can be switched off altogether, or map contact updates can be turned off. Having anything on the map other than a mark and some writing, and then only for one ship at a time, is unrealistic; so SH5 is not dumbed down from any previous sim in that department.

What cracks me up are the bugs that are in SH5 that are the same as sH4, that were the same as SH3 (sub on a rail anyone).
SH3 did not have subs on rails. That was an SH4 original.:sunny:

Faamecanic

03-22-10, 10:17 AM

I think Ubi will (in general) go to shallower waters -> Console and maybe iPhone. They answer to money only and (like it or not) today money is found in 360/ps3/...

I think there will be DLC and Microtransaction (like steam will do soon).

The good side? I am quite sure UBI will patch SH5. They need a platform to sell their DLC from...

Hopefully the Devs in Romania will either be let go and picked up by a GOOD company that wants a immersive sub sim (as I think the Devs dreams are BIG... they just need the money and time) OR the Devs leave Ubi and form thier OWN company.

I think...given the time and money.... the devs could do GREAT things with SH5..... but Im also sure Ubi will never release the rights to the engine or title....

Faamecanic

03-22-10, 10:18 AM

The map can be switched off altogether, or map contact updates can be turned off. Having anything on the map other than a mark and some writing, and then only for one ship at a time, is unrealistic; so SH5 is not dumbed down from any previous sim in that department.

SH3 did not have subs on rails. That was an SH4 original.:sunny:

Maybe no where near as bad as SH4.... but there was still an unrealistic amount of NON motion in heavy seas.... One of the biggest selling points in GWX was Realistic sub motion.

As far as map contacts go..... out of the three weekends now that I have owned the game, I havent been able to play 2 of them... and I got about 5 hours into my first patrol (after the lackluster tutorial) and realised my options had defaulted to Easy mode even after I set them to HARD (with no map contacts).

Faamecanic

03-22-10, 10:30 AM

here is a tip: you can turn map updates "off" in the realism setting, just like in SH 3 and 4. Then you only see what you actually plot on the map yourself. Feel free to pass it on..:DL

I am only using map updates "on" to get more familiar with how the game works. It's amazing the attention to details. For example, the visual sighting range of the escorts (the grey circle) is influenced by the height of your periscope. In the example above, if my periscope was fully extended, it would already have been spotted. As you can see, from the bar in the upper left corner of the screenshot, my periscope is barely breaking the surface and the carrier was obscured by waves 80-90% of the time.

Like I said to sailor Steve...I have only been able to play for 5 hours the last 3 weekends (the only time I can play due to work)..out of those 3 weekends I couldnt play 2 of them due to DRM. Ubi=EPIC FAIL there....

Then when I did get to play I realized the Options reset themselves to EASY after I started the mission, even though I set them to HARD, and cant be reset unless your in port (Another Ubi=FAIL)....

no, you are saying that. Except for some excesses like the RPG elements, this game is not anymore dumbed down than SH3 or 4.

Wrong again.... a lot of vets are not liking the new interface. Their posts of displeasure are all over the forum. Example: lack of rudder control. Why can I only go full rudder while using Awesome/EXTREME/LUDICROUS Speed Ahead(translate Flank speed so the console kiddies can understand). No very good if trying to evade and stay silent....

On the plus side I do like the idea of the RPG elements.... but not if they are poorly developed (as they are in SH5). Best to make the sim good, work the bugs out, BETA TEST...then add a half baked RPG element. I think most vets would have been happy with a re-vamped SH4 engine with bugs worked out rather than this bug ridden release.

But this thread was started by the OP asking for an opinion on if SH5 is the beginning or the end of the SH franchise...I gave my opinion.

Boats

03-22-10, 10:31 AM

Well, on the bright side, with all arcade aspects (or should I say the unrealistic WW2 era detection gear enabled) the game is a good platform for a nuke sub mod. Like the ones done for SH4.

So maybe this game is written to transcend more than just one time frame, though the time frame it's originally written for is limited in its scope.:hmmm:
Relying on modders of course. Has Ubi said anything yet about fixing some more of the bugs?

Stuart Galbraith

03-22-10, 10:46 AM

I think people have forgotten how bad SH4 was when it arrived, and how even after the mission pack, it was STILL bugged to high heaven. It looked fantastic, and had a lot of good aspects, but it was not realistic. Remember pulling the plug on the type IX and being able to dive in seconds?

Silent Hunter III was bugged, and its only due to the removal of starforce (remember how contentous THAT was) and modding by the community that made it playable? Or how bugged Silent Hunter II was, how nobody played it after Silent Hunter II arrived?

There was only one near flawless example in the franchise, and that was Silent Hunter I. So somehow concluding that due to the bugs, the copy protection and that x y or z is not available without being modded in, avoids the fact that franchise has survived thus far with all those problems already.

Is the end of the franchise? Perhaps, but im not reaching for the livebelt yet. The game is very largely stable, playable, fun (which GWX for all its realism sometimes is not.). Realistic? I think its better in some ways than previous versions. It actually seems possible to attack on the surface at night, whereas before in previous versions they could see you coming form 10 miles away and had to conduct a submerged night attack. It has potential for the future. As far as I can see, its potential lies more in the communities hands than Ubisoft.

Its a step up from SH4. Best yet? No, but I think if its given a chance it might just be another SH3. Whether the community wants to give it a chance its another matter.

Im having fun. Surprisingly good fun considering how nearly everyone slammed this game only 5 minutes after it came out.

Bilge_Rat

03-22-10, 10:54 AM

Wrong again.... a lot of vets are not liking the new interface.

I see you are confused again, but I am here to correct you. Whether someone "likes" an interface or not is purely a matter of personal taste and is totally irrelevant to an "opinion" on SH5, as you should know.

Neither this interface nor that in any subsim is realistic. An interface is purely an artificial construct to allow the player to play the game. To argue that the "screens" in SH3 are more "realisitic" than the "screens" in SH5 is ludicrous.

But this thread was started by the OP asking for an opinion on if SH5 is the beginning or the end of the SH franchise...I gave my opinion.

I also chose to provide my honest opinion on SH5 and the future of the SH series. You chose to personally criticize my opinion with irrelevant and false issues, on which I corrected you.

I don't understand why the posters who have a negative opinion of SH5 always feel the need to attack those that provide a positive opinion. Are you afraid that the average player will see through the feebleness of your arguments?

RSColonel_131st

03-22-10, 11:04 AM

I am only using map updates "on" to get more familiar with how the game works. It's amazing the attention to details. For example, the visual sighting range of the escorts (the grey circle) is influenced by the height of your periscope. In the example above, if my periscope was fully extended, it would already have been spotted. As you can see, from the bar in the upper left corner of the screenshot, my periscope is barely breaking the surface and the carrier was obscured by waves 80-90% of the time.

Isn't that the very definition of "dumbed down"? In SH4 I have to play with map updates since there's no realistic and "manual easy" way to switch between periscope and the map for marking contacts. Of course it could be done and some are doing it, but it's not very realistic either to have to do both.

But at least in SH4, map updates only give the basics. Now here you get magical "they will detect you inside this circle but not outside it" information?

There's a lot of potential under the hood of the new engine, but it will take a while for the modders to put it into actual use.

SteamWake

03-22-10, 11:42 AM

Some Heinkel HE111 and Junkers JU89, at the end of their operational life and outclassed by the latest fighters, were converted to this purpose.

Huh I thought the V1 was a monstorus thing at least twice the size of an HE111 maybe I was wrong.

razark

03-22-10, 11:53 AM

Huh I thought the V1 was a monstorus thing at least twice the size of an HE111 maybe I was wrong.

This should give you some idea of size.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1973-029A-24A%2C_Marschflugk%C3%B6rper_V1_vor_Start.jpg
and this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Spitfire_Tipping_V-1_Flying_Bomb.jpg
On the left is the V1, on the right is a Spitfire.

Cavell

03-22-10, 12:01 PM

I see you are confused again, but I am here to correct you. Whether someone "likes" an interface or not is purely a matter of personal taste and is totally irrelevant to an "opinion" on SH5, as you should know.

So by that logic, a game which had a horrible UI which rendered the game nearly unplayable wouldn't be classified as a bad game because it would be irrelevant to forming an opinion on the game itself? That's an interesting take.

The UI is what you use to play a game. Of course it's important to forming an overall opinion of it.

Bilge_Rat

03-22-10, 12:42 PM

So by that logic, a game which had a horrible UI which rendered the game nearly unplayable wouldn't be classified as a bad game because it would be irrelevant to forming an opinion on the game itself? That's an interesting take.

The UI is what you use to play a game. Of course it's important to forming an overall opinion of it.

no, I agree that a bad interface can ruin a game, do you know of a game that has that issue?

The UI in SH5 is a major improvement over the SH3/4 one IMHO. Take for example the periscope screen, look at all the improvements:

1. you can lock a target, but the scope is not locked to the center of the TGT. This allows you to work on the solution, while still being able to look around for other threats and allows you to easily target specific parts of the ship.

For example, lets say you want to shoot one torp in the bow section and one torp in the aft section. In SH3, your scope is locked to the center of the ship and you have to manually offest the gyro angle of each tube. In SH5, once you have the correct solution, you merely aim your scope at the bow, fire 1, aim at the stern and fire 2. Your gyro angle is set based on your scope's bearing. Much more user friendly;

2. the TDC is more flexible. It gives you access to all the same functions as the SH3/4 TDC, but also allows the user to directly type in the numbers you want to: range, AOB and speed. Something which you could not do directly in SH3/4.

The only thing missing is the ability to set gyro angles for each tube manually, but that has already been added by modders;

3. the TAI map which replaces the attack map is now part of every station. You can access it even while the game is paused, you can maximize it to work out your solution and then minimize it and keep it in view while looking in the scope which makes it easy to compare the two. You can drag it into any shape you want.

It is more practical and useful than the old ATTACK map. In SH3/4, if you were playing w. map updates "off" and wanted to plot target info on the NAV map, you had to switch between screens. Here, you can plot info directly on the TAI map, while still at the periscope station.

All and all, it shows that the devs paid attention to our complaints over the years and have come up with a periscope interface which is easier to use than the old one and a significant improvement IMHO. If however, someone wants to play with the old periscope screen, there is already a mod for that. :salute:

Furia

03-22-10, 12:46 PM

In my humble oppinion the future of the Silent Hunter series rest in its multiplayer posibilities.
The first really succesful Silent Hunter Game was Silent Hunter II that along Destroyer Command, allowed for serious and exciting multiplayer matches.

Was the first time we had real Tournament, Leagues, Flotillas............ Virtual life and thousands of hours of activity. Just visit the old Wolfpack League or the Eagle league pages and forums to remember how it was and the ammount of multiplayer combat hours we played. I remeber some online convoy combats that lasted up to 6 hours full of excitement.

Silent Hunter II was blooming by then and was the real initial success of the Silent Hunter saga.

Silent Hunters III, IV and V have only improved the graphics and the game inmmersion allowing you to walk around the sub, however they lack serious multiplayer capabilities thus basically MAINLY being used for single player, and this is where the trouble hits the waterline.

Multiplayer is today's keystone for a game success and most games strong point is their multiplayer activities.
This means activity, sales, virtual units (that recruit people and make then purchase the game.........) tournaments, competitions, trainings.....

Having a strong multiplayer option didn't mean you cannot play single player. Means you can have BOTH.

We have traded a supposedely Dinamic Campaing instead good Multiplayer capability.

Silent Hunter V best innovation beside the posibility of walking around the boat is that it is extremely highly moddable and the possibility of scripting.
And this are good news.
While the SHV it is a nice game and nice to play, it will get boring soon unless the modders improve it and until we have a possibility of having a Destroyer Command "option" to really start playing serious Naval Warfare.

The AI would never match the thrill of being hunted by a humman destroyer.

If Ubi want to keep the saga alive they must get the idea that unless they offer a credible multiplayer competitive mode or they would always have a "limping game" that would simply struggle to stay afloat.

scrapser

03-22-10, 12:52 PM

Huh I thought the V1 was a monstorus thing at least twice the size of an HE111 maybe I was wrong.

It sounds like you're thinking of the V2 which was big. It stood about 50 feet high and launched vertically like a conventional rocket.

It was one of my first Estes model rockets I built as a kid. I always thought of it as the epitomy of what a rocket should look like.

ReallyDedPoet

03-22-10, 01:02 PM

The UI is what you use to play a game. Of course it's important to forming an overall opinion of it.

Soon to be released UI for SH5. It retains SH5's simplicity, but adds some key elements.

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/4015/user254741pic1475126922.jpg

scrapser

03-22-10, 01:08 PM

I think it's safe to say a standard interface has been established over the years...first by Silent Service in 1984 and it has continued to this day. Is it real? Is your computer a submarine?

Efforts were made to make the interface (stations) as realistic looking and functional as possible in SH3 and SH4. Personally if Ubi wants to dick around with the interface that's fine but they should have made the new interface optional so you could go to the realistic controls if you wish.

The new Star Wars Millenium Falcon edition of Silent Hunter 5 attack map is an anachronism. The chart reminds me of the holograph the Rebel base had showing how soon before the Death Star would be able to attack the moon. Somehow I don't feel like it's WW2 at that point.

I'm sure from a strictly functional standpoint it's wonderful but it detracts from being a submarine simulation. Once the modders figure out how to remove it and restore the standard stations, it will be much better.

I still think the best thing to do with SH5 is use it to create a modern version of SH3 and SH4. But better to wait for Ubisoft to release another Beta of the Pacific Theater and save the modders a lot of work. Then we can have "new" SH3 and SH4 simulations.

It would also be great if there is a way to strip out or disable the whole crew interaction thing. Leave in the part where you can walk around the sub and browse life on a submarine when you're bored. As a working interface I think it's falling on its face. Turns it into a submarine captain simulation instead of a submarine simulation.

msxyz

03-22-10, 01:19 PM

Huh I thought the V1 was a monstorus thing at least twice the size of an HE111 maybe I was wrong.
Review with photos of a 1:48 He111 model with V1 strapped beneath a wing. It also contains a bit of historic info.

http://modelingmadness.com/reviews/axis/luft/bioll111.htm

janh

03-22-10, 01:21 PM

It would also be great if there is a way to strip out or disable the whole crew interaction thing. Leave in the part where you can walk around the sub and browse life on a submarine when you're bored. As a working interface I think it's falling on its face. Turns it into a submarine captain simulation instead of a submarine simulation.

(1) I think that is what Elenaiba meant in his post when he spoke of his teams design goal not necessarily being the same that people may have expected the game to be. I think what they had in mind is quite logic, i.e. to increase the immersion to a "Das Boot" like level you need a human component, i.e. you have to leave the submarine sim and make it a caption or crew simulation included. They may or may not have wanted to provide what most people here at subsim wanted it to be (see Neals review).

(2) I do have servere doubts about this trend to online games. Many games, like this play as well or even better as single player. Especially when you enjoy hours of running around a convoy to get into attack position with little action -- how many online players would join that? Many other games suffer from the same problem, and the AI in WITP-AE for my taste should have received more attention than it obviously did. But developing a strong AI is brain and cost intensive, and something that unlike eye-candy doesn't immediately show and support the sales factor.
However, many gamers may not have the time to join online games, and depend on others for playing. I think it is a nice addition to have, but if you build on only that, you will definitely loose a lot of customers.

ReallyDedPoet

03-22-10, 01:30 PM

The strength and some may say weakness ( but not me ) has always been how moddable this series has been.

The game itself is just a foundation, no matter what UBI put out, folks would not have been happy with it. There is a huge variety of opinions here. What may be a standard interface for one person, is not for the other. I have more of an issue with how the game plays then how it looks. There is no excuse for some of the ongoing bugs, glitches that have existed and still do.

Is it real? Is your computer a submarine?I agree, unless we were there, or are presently a submariner it will never be real.

Do I want to play the same game over and over including using the same interface? No, I would get bored pretty quick. At first I did more than a few wtfs when I started with 5's UI, but with a few changes I am growing to like it. Plus there are mods that give give you the SH3\4 look.

As far as the crew interaction part of 5, again out of the box it is flawed, but who knows what modders will be able to do with it. As it is now there are already a few that make some nice changes to it.

I am not letting UBI off the hook yet, but like 3 and 4 before it, 5 just may go onto being a half decent sim. Time will tell.

jason210

03-22-10, 01:47 PM

I think it's done well to get this far. I never expected to see an SH5.

This franchise may soon be over, but I don't think it has anything to do with the quality of SH5 or DRM. It's more to do with trends in the gaming market and the economic difficulties that have plagued us for the last 18 months.

One of the most successful and biggest selling franchise's of all ended last year -with the death of Microsoft Flight Simulator. We saw the sacking of the development team and shelving of the product. That was really bad - the simulator had really become a platform for the development of sophisticated models that were like 80% functional flight decks.

But computers are hear to stay and they keep on getting more powerful. For me it all began with the PSION flight simulator in 1984. When I think of all the fun I've had since, I consider myself a fortunate person! We are one lucky generation! We enthusiasts ought to be grateful to have had these experiences of this kind!

Don't under-estimate the markets demand for this kind of entertainment. Soon we'll see a new breed of games combining the best of simulators like Silent Hunter and ARMA, with the best of MMORPGs like WOW and War Hammer. Real physics will replace point and click in these games. It will all be pay to play and it will all be worth it, and one day we'll look back and think about these games wonder what all this fuss and arguing was about. We'll look on SH5 with that same nostalgia we have when we think of when we think about our old ZX Spectrum and Atari and Amiga games.

scrapser

03-22-10, 01:56 PM

(1) I think that is what Elenaiba meant in his post when he spoke of his teams design goal not necessarily being the same that people may have expected the game to be. I think what they had in mind is quite logic, i.e. to increase the immersion to a "Das Boot" like level you need a human component, i.e. you have to leave the submarine sim and make it a caption or crew simulation included. They may or may not have wanted to provide what most people here at subsim wanted it to be (see Neals review).

(2) I do have servere doubts about this trend to online games. Many games, like this play as well or even better as single player. Especially when you enjoy hours of running around a convoy to get into attack position with little action -- how many online players would join that? Many other games suffer from the same problem, and the AI in WITP-AE for my taste should have received more attention than it obviously did. But developing a strong AI is brain and cost intensive, and something that unlike eye-candy doesn't immediately show and support the sales factor.
However, many gamers may not have the time to join online games, and depend on others for playing. I think it is a nice addition to have, but if you build on only that, you will definitely loose a lot of customers.

I personally do not want a sub captain simulation. Getting the crew to do their job is part of the day to day life on board and there will be good days and bad. That can be just as easily simulated with a randomizing function. Just as I do not play FPS games that are third person view (like Lara Croft for example). I prefer to see through my own eyes so the screen represents what I am seeing while onboard. I think having to run around the entire submarine to get things done is not simulating anything but that's just me.

As far as submarine simulations as experienced on a computer, I think they are the perfect companions for each other. A sub sim is the ultimate strategy game. You can sit down with a cup of coffee and for hours take in information and plan ahead. It is quite immersive in an intellectual way which is why I'm not so bent on the eye-candy.

There are two types of games out there...one is instant gratification (consoles are perfect for these games)...the other is intellectual and can include FPS if the AI is halfway decent. Simulations are obviously intellectual games.

Furia

03-22-10, 02:10 PM

(1)

(2) I do have servere doubts about this trend to online games. Many games, like this play as well or even better as single player. Especially when you enjoy hours of running around a convoy to get into attack position with little action -- how many online players would join that? Many other games suffer from the same problem, and the AI in WITP-AE for my taste should have received more attention than it obviously did. But developing a strong AI is brain and cost intensive, and something that unlike eye-candy doesn't immediately show and support the sales factor.
However, many gamers may not have the time to join online games, and depend on others for playing. I think it is a nice addition to have, but if you build on only that, you will definitely loose a lot of customers.

Well, when SHII and DC were released, we have as much players on MP than on Sp and even more. In my case once I finished the Campaing, I did all my destroyer Command time in Multiplayer and we had games daily. Some casual , some part of tournaments and competitions.

Most Subsim activity was around Wolfpack League and Eagle Flotilla.
This is when Subsim boosted player numbers and online activity.

Most of the Oldtimers here can tell you that most people participated on online combats. Of course with some exceptions :O:

The reason people does not seem interested on this option is because they do not have it avalaible.

To be succesful, the game must have BOTH options so players have the choice to play single or multi.

Bilge_Rat

03-22-10, 02:14 PM

I think having to run around the entire submarine to get things done is not simulating anything but that's just me.

On that last point, I thought at first that being able to walk though the entire boat was just a marketing gimmick since I was perfectly happy with the SH3/4 model. However, after having spent a few weeks in my virtual Type VII, I am sold on the concept.

Having to go down the ladder to dive, going to the conning tower to use the attack scope, the command room to use the observation scope, the sonar room to use the sonar. You get a very good feel for the size of a sub, the layout, where everything is. I find I more naturally use the observation scope or the attack scope as they were meant to be used.

When running deep, I also spend a lot more time than I used to at 1x, just standing around or pacing the command room, watching the crew, listening to reports. I find I will naturally move to check the actual dials in the boat rather than a popup screen. I now know where all the important dials are located on the sub.

It is very immersive....:salute:

Cavell

03-22-10, 02:29 PM

no, I agree that a bad interface can ruin a game, do you know of a game that has that issue?

Yes. The Assassin's Creed PC port springs to mind.

However, what you said was, "Whether someone "likes" an interface or not is purely a matter of personal taste and is totally irrelevant to an "opinion" on SH5, as you should know."

On the one hand, you say whether or not someone likes SH5's UI is a matter of personal taste and totally irrelevant to forming an opinion on SH5, and then you go on to agree that disliking an interface can ruin a game. That seems contradictory.

I'm not for or against the SH5 UI, having never played with it, but someone stating that the new glass cockpit design makes them dislike the game? That's a perfectly valid reason for disliking it, that's all I was getting at. Speaking as someone with absolutely no firsthand experience of it and going solely off of what I've read around here, I'm curious why they didn't just slap a few digital MFDs and maybe a HUD up and call it a day, but that's me.

JU_88

03-22-10, 02:43 PM

God! Do you people never do anything other than bleat?

If you don't like it, don't run it. Stick with something you DO like and stop behaving like petulant children

+1

Simply because if you explained your SH5 woes to any of the other 99.9999999% of the worlds non-subsiming population - thats what they'd tell ya :).

Sh5 is bit of a mess with some good potential.
IMHO You dont know what you got till its gone.

SteamWake

03-22-10, 03:02 PM

It's the game you love to hate :haha:

Faamecanic

03-23-10, 11:08 AM

I see you are confused again, but I am here to correct you. Whether someone "likes" an interface or not is purely a matter of personal taste and is totally irrelevant to an "opinion" on SH5, as you should know.

Neither this interface nor that in any subsim is realistic. An interface is purely an artificial construct to allow the player to play the game. To argue that the "screens" in SH3 are more "realisitic" than the "screens" in SH5 is ludicrous.

I also chose to provide my honest opinion on SH5 and the future of the SH series. You chose to personally criticize my opinion with irrelevant and false issues, on which I corrected you.

I don't understand why the posters who have a negative opinion of SH5 always feel the need to attack those that provide a positive opinion. Are you afraid that the average player will see through the feebleness of your arguments?

Seems to me your the one that came off smug and started talking/typing in a condescending tone with your initial reply (quoted below for reference).... :hmmm:

here is a tip: you can turn map updates "off" in the realism setting, just like in SH 3 and 4. Then you only see what you actually plot on the map yourself. Feel free to pass it on..:DL

Feel free to point out where I was rude or condescending to you in my inital post/reply to you and I will apologize.....

IRT to UI being irrelevant.... I absolutely disagree here. I would say aside from the DRM issues, and the broken morale system (why must this be broke with EVERY SH release), a close third is the craptastic UI. Its for these THREE reasons I see hard core subsimmers at least turning away from SH5.

Bilge_Rat

03-23-10, 11:26 AM

Seems to me your the one that came off smug and started talking/typing in a condescending tone.... :hmmm:

Feel free to point out where I was rude or condescending to you and I will apologize.....

I will readily agree that I may have over-reacted to your posts.

However, your original reply to me was:

"yes, it has map updates on and this is eye candy, but how cool is that periscope station? everything you need is on one screen. The TAI map can be dragged into any shape you want"

And that my friend is why a lot of us DO NOT like SH5... how many Uboat captains knew exactly how far ships ASDIC and hydrophones could hear them while submerged (or on the surface for that matter).

That is why a lot of people say this is too dumbed down.

If someone wants to have a REAL in-depth debate on the strength, weaknesses and long term potential of SH5, I am more than happy to oblige.

Faamecanic

03-23-10, 11:34 AM

I will readily agree that I may have over-reacted to your posts.

However, your original reply to me was:

If someone wants to have a REAL in-depth debate on the strength, weaknesses and long term potential of SH5, I am more than happy to oblige.

Roger that.... forums stink when words are easily taken to convey one meaning and not the other (had the same discussion with Webster a year ago or so :haha:)

Im a natuarlly sarcastic humored person and fail to realize that comes out in my typing at times...so I will mea culpa on that quote above.... my apologys to you if my tone was off.

No doubt I agree SH5 has LONG TERM potential...especially with the talented and dedicated sub sim lovers we have here. But thats what gets my goat.

UBI and many other software publishers release buggy software that is half finished and either expect modders to fix it... or like in the case of EA SPORTS and the Madden franchise, DONT allow modding and now no longer produce the sim for PC (but wont let the NFL license go to another company)...then blame poor sales on a diminishing intrest in the genre. When in all actuality it is the consumer is tired of buying a half finished product.

In my mind the average user/consumer of SH5 will NOT mod the sim. Therefore they will judge the sim based on what experience they have out of the box. That experience cannot bode well to the series.... through no fault of the consumer/sub sim grognard.