Why do I feel bad?

[Admiral8Q]

Why do I feel bad every time I sink a sampan, a fishing boat, a junk? My guess is these are civilians trying to support their village and family. If this wasn't a game, I'd let them be.

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/4343/sorryp.png

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9061/sunk.png

[Camaero]

Yeah I agree... plus they are pretty cool looking ships. Still... they are feeding their country and that is a no no. :arrgh!:

[Admiral8Q]

Yeah I agree... plus they are pretty cool looking ships. Still... they are feeding their country and that is a no no. :arrgh!:
True, if it was all out full blown war like WW2... It's difficult to imagine myself there.:o

[ETR3(SS)]

Well during the war itself these boats were open game. Some of them carried radio sets to report US Submarine sightings. Once we figured that out, they became targets as well.

[Admiral8Q]

Well during the war itself these boats were open game. Some of them carried radio sets to report US Submarine sightings. Once we figured that out, they became targets as well.
Yes, I know. I still feel bad every time I sink one though. :hmmm:
It was a Fishing boat on Doolittle's raid that gave away the Enterprise. So be it. war is war. :-?

[Armistead]

We've had these threads in the past that caused long debates for hundreds of pages, people getting angry and finally the thread closed.

I'm one of...it's a PC game, you're not killing anything, so don't worry about it. Most of these ships will give your position away if a enemy ship or plane is in the contact zone.

Some mods tried to correct it to make people feel better by adding freight to them.

I think the characters are so bad they have to be killed.

[razark]

I usually don't sink them, just because I don't feel like going to the trouble. There are several reasons to sink them, though.

A. They are enemy vessels. My orders are to execute unrestricted submarine warfare against the Empire of Japan.

B. These enemy vessels are engaged in supplying food to the enemy. For each fishing boat that goes down, there's an enemy soldier that misses dinner, an enemy sailor that doesn't get enough for lunch, a factory worker who doesn't get breakfast. The enemy goes hungry, has lower morale, and is less effective in fighting the war.

C. Some vessels may carry radios, to report sightings to the ASW forces. If I'm attacking them, it's too late for me, but if they're not there, they can't report the next sub.

D. As the war continues, the enemy's transport capabilities are dwindling. These vessels may be used to transport enemy forces and supplies.

E. (In the real war) They're Japanese. Remember Pearl Harbor!

Besides, aren't the sailors on the cargo ships just "civilians trying to support their... family"?

[Admiral8Q]

I usually don't sink them, just because I don't feel like going to the trouble. There are several reasons to sink them, though.
I feel as a submariner behind enemy lines, I must.

A. They are enemy vessels. My orders are to execute unrestricted submarine warfare against the Empire of Japan.
Yes, it may not be pretty, but they attacked our civilization. I think I would have made an effective submariner. I would still feel bad, but what must be done must be done.

B. These enemy vessels are engaged in supplying food to the enemy. For each fishing boat that goes down, there's an enemy soldier that misses dinner, an enemy sailor that doesn't get enough for lunch, a factory worker who doesn't get breakfast. The enemy goes hungry, has lower morale, and is less effective in fighting the war.

You don't know that, especially in "conquered" territory. But I do get your point.


C. Some vessels may carry radios, to report sightings to the ASW forces. If I'm attacking them, it's too late for me, but if they're not there, they can't report the next sub.
Like the Q ships.

D. As the war continues, the enemy's transport capabilities are dwindling. These vessels may be used to transport enemy forces and supplies.
Good call, I think I would agree on that if I was in that situation.

E. (In the real war) They're Japanese. Remember Pearl Harbor!
War is war. At those times I'd enlist to fight. Believe me.


Besides, aren't the sailors on the cargo ships just "civilians trying to support their... family"?

They know what they are getting into. I hope they did. Oi...

[Drifter]

Why do I feel bad every time I sink a sampan, a fishing boat, a junk? My guess is these are civilians trying to support their village and family. If this wasn't a game, I'd let them be.


It's just a game, isn't it? :06:

[Admiral8Q]

It's just a game, isn't it? :06:

I know but it's just a sim. :03:

[maillemaker]

I agree with the captain in Crimson Tide:

"Drop that ****er, twice!"

I'd sink anything flying a jap flag and piss off of the conning tower into the debris as I sailed by.

Steve

[Rockin Robbins]

You feel bad because war is a stinking dirty business that claims the lives of people who are just trying to live through other people's troubles. You feel bad because you'd rather not be here, but would like to be home squeezing on succulent portions of your girlfriend's anatomy whilst chowing on barbecued chicken carcasses.

But you realize that war is your business now, and no matter how cruel and unfair it is most of the time, it is necessary and preferrable to the "peace" of domination by a power who committed atrocity after atrocity in mainland China, and who now seeks to dominate all of the Pacific (at least) by whatever means necessary.

No, we didn't pick the fight, but by God, we're going to win it. That's going to mean that we can't recognize any innocent Japanese. They were killed not by our action, but by the action of their government, which made killing them necessary.

No, you've learned the hard way that peace is not the greatest human good. Sometimes peace is evil and intolerable. No, the highest good is justice and you're fighting for that. Do it with a clear conscience, but never evading the responsibility for the cruelty we must sometimes employ.

[Jten]

During the war the Japanese attempted to turn out significant numbers of wooden mechant ships to supplement their logistical abilities.

“But the Japanese had an inexhaustible supply of mahogany in the Philippines and of teak in Thailand and Burma, both excellent for shipbuilding; and in Hong Kong there was no lack of trained shipwrights. They could build a modified junk, a sailing vessel which they could in some cases equip with motors, and which would have two obvious advantages: it could be built quickly and in considerable numbers, and it would afford a smaller and much less remunerative target for enemy submarines… It was announced that the vessels built were to be employed in ‘the transportation of raw materials and commodities for reconstruction in the Southern Regions, such as crude oil, lumber, and rice.’ The first launched December 8,‘42. Large numbers launched taking forty to sixty-three days construction." Ward Robert S., Asia for the Asiatics, Chicago, University of Chicago Press 1945
-----------------------
The Japanese merchant marine in WW2 (Parillo) :

"Providing Japanese estimates of the nations shipping needs were accurate, ample maritime transport existed for all these roles. At the time of Pearl Harbor, the merchant fleet amounted to 6.4 million tons. There were in addition, approx. 1.2 million tons of wooden vessels.

"Over 90% of Wooden Hulled Merchant Men built in Japan during the war were of standard design;the 100-250 ton cargo carrier types accounted for two thirds of the total."

The largest type of small craft at work in the Pacific during WW2 was the Kaijo Torakku, or sea truck,which served in great numbers from Burma to the Marshals. The Japanese loosely applied the term to many types of small craft, including tug boats,water supply ships,salvage vessels,and others, but normally it denoted a particular class of cargo carrier. The distinguishing design of the sea truck was it's simple boxlike design,which reduced the skills needed for it's construction. Sea Truck ranged in size from 100 tons to 1,000 or more tons. The Most common type was the SD wooden type displacing up to 300 tons.

Engines propelled the sea truck at speeds of around 8 knots. It's fuel tanks held about 12 tons of heavy oil, enough for about 10 nights of cruising."

The Sea Trucks functioned as transport, pilot ship, escort, and in countless other jobs but it's principle use remained in cargo transport for supply operations at the front, even an SD could carry 150 tons or so, the equal of 7 days rations for an Imperial Army unit in the field. Typically Sea Trucks took on loads from steel merchantmen at rear bases for the final journey to the front."

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr269/jptn/sampan.jpg

[Sailor Steve]

It is a dilemma.

So:

If you feel bad about sinking them, don't do it.

If you feel you must, then do it.

If you still feel bad about it, sink them and write in your personal diary that you feel bad about it.

In real life, it's part of the stress of war. I was just a radioman on a destroyer. We did fire support for the marines. I was the one who took the message to the captain, thanking us for our help and giving us a list of stuff we destroyed and a body count. When I read "22 dead" I felt extremely guilty. And these were enemy soldiers, not civilians. They never did anything to me (though they certainly would have if they had me in their sights).

You do your job, and you deal with it any way you can.

[peabody]

I think the characters are so bad they have to be killed.

:har: Those ARE some of the worse 3D figures I have ever seen. The "extras" in SH4 are terrible.

Peabody

[Admiral8Q]

Yep, I feel I must. It's my duty. Taking on the command of a war vessel entails strong cold will.

To justify it: They started the war. They massacred 200 000 Chinese in cold blood because they wanted to conquer territory, not people.

If you still feel bad about it, sink them and write in your personal diary that you feel bad about it.
Or post it in Subsim :D

[KING111]

The film actor Rod Steiger was on the USS Hornet
With the Doolittle raid
And he said he knew it was all out war when they spotted
2 junks with families on board and they sunk them
Because they thought they might be radioing Japan
About the fleet it made him feel sick:nope:

[A. Smith]

I usually don't bother. Waste of perfectly good ammunition.

What would you rather do, sink ten junks for 2000 tons, or use those 200 shells for a 10,000 ton tanker you don't ahve enough fish for?

[Admiral8Q]

I usually don't bother. Waste of perfectly good ammunition.

What would you rather do, sink ten junks for 2000 tons, or use those 200 shells for a 10,000 ton tanker you don't ahve enough fish for?

It usually takes two heat shots. Wait, watch, then they sink.

[Randomizer]

Have sent in my proof of donation and will hopefully soon be downloading the Narwhal Mod. Perhaps gunning down junks with a pair of 6" guns feels better than doing so with a popgun 3" or 4" piece!

[Admiral8Q]

Have sent in my proof of donation and will hopefully soon be downloading the Narwhal Mod. Perhaps gunning down junks with a pair of 6" guns feels better than doing so with a popgun 3" or 4" piece!
Junks are junk. I'll get a credit card, (evil buggers) at the end of this month. Gunning down gunboats or destroyers should put a surprise in their hat. When a submarine can fight it's way on the surface.

[Immacolata]

It is a dilemma.

So:

If you feel bad about sinking them, don't do it.

If you feel you must, then do it.

If you still feel bad about it, sink them and write in your personal diary that you feel bad about it.

Not only is it a dilemma, it is also you being engrossed in a simulation of life and death. I find that this is what makes a simulation game like SH great. I also feel a brief pang of ... melancholy? Something sad at least, when I see a cargo ship list after a torpedo hits it to the aft, and then it goes down with a groan. Poor sailors. Funny thing, I feel glee and a great sense of justice when I get a rare chance to pop a destroyer. Those bastards really make life hell for you sometimes. So its good when they go down. I am sure at least some of the men in service during the war felt the same. Some targets where great, others not so great.



In real life, it's part of the stress of war. I was just a radioman on a destroyer. We did fire support for the marines. I was the one who took the message to the captain, thanking us for our help and giving us a list of stuff we destroyed and a body count. When I read "22 dead" I felt extremely guilty. And these were enemy soldiers, not civilians. They never did anything to me (though they certainly would have if they had me in their sights).

You do your job, and you deal with it any way you can.

Not to be nosy, but can I ask when/where you served?

[jerm138]

To justify it: They started the war. They massacred 200 000 Chinese in cold blood

To be fair, we (America) massacred thousands upon thousands of civilians in the Phillipines at the beginning of the 20th century. Japan partly used this as justification for their atrocities in China.

Both incidents are disgusting, in my opinion, as are MANY things that history has forgotten about. Although history usually tends to only forget the atrocities of the victors.

As for sinking sampans, it depends on how bored I am. I'm certain I would feel remorseful about wiping out a poor fishing family in real life, but I can also see the reasons it "had" to be done. And I might feel differently if I had been thrust into the situation the way that they had back then.

War is hell. :nope:

[Gilbou]

I shoot and sink everything I find.

It's a bunch of pixels on the screen of my PC.

[ETR3(SS)]

It usually takes two heat shots. Wait, watch, then they sink.HEAT shots? Where are you getting High Explosive Anti Tank rounds from? :haha:

[razark]

HEAT shots? Where are you getting High Explosive Anti Tank rounds from? :haha:

I think he meant heated rounds, not HEAT rounds. You get the cook to put them in the oven for a while, so they cause fires when they hit.

Just make sure you have oven mitts for your gun crew. ;)

[Sailor Steve]

Not to be nosy, but can I ask when/where you served?
USS Brinkley Bass (DD-887), Viet Nam, 1970.

[AVGWarhawk]

Junks are picket boats posing as fishing vessels....sink'em :yep:

[Capt. Morgan]

It is a tribute to the quality of this sim that you feel bad, you should, War is the worst experience a human can endure.

[Ducimus]

The san pans and junks are just digital bits in a video game where blowing stuff up is fun! :O:

(yeah i know.. "way to ruin the moral delimna in a sim you killjoy!")

[Rockin Robbins]

The san pans and junks are just digital bits in a video game where blowing stuff up is fun! :O:

(yeah i know.. "way to ruin the moral delimna in a sim you killjoy!")
Yup there's a lot of difference between playing the game and real life. I just took his question to be about the situation of a real sub jockey and not so much about blowing things into digital bits, which is a ton of fun!

[Galanti]

Sampans were not a uniquely Japanese vessel.

In the game, I personally don't lose any sleep over it, but I do try to look at the map when I make contact with these kinds of small craft, and roleplay to make a distinction between sampans/fishing craft acticely engaged in supporting the Japanese and those who being sailed by various indigenous people toiling under the yoke of the Greater East-Asia Co-prosperity Sphere.

[tater]

Technically, they should be of various nationalities from local fishermen---who could very well be supplying the japs---to japanese pickets or transports (sea trucks, luggers, etc).

In the SWPA, the 5th AF destroyed every single boat they saw no matter how small.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/tatersw/SH4/1269484822356.jpg (http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/tatersw/SH4/?action=view&current=1269484822356.jpg)

http://members.spinn.net/%7Emerrick/Stuff/fishing_boats_wartime.jpg

[Freebird]

It's known that they supported the war effort and would drop a dime if they spotted you.

That makes them a viable target.

I read in here somewhere that subs would board and search them, make them man their lifeboats/skiffs and then sink the vessel with deck guns while leaving the crew to row.

Gary

[Galeocerdo]

Sharks gotta eat... same as worms.

[Jten]

It would add a challenge to have a few armed 'fishing' boats in the game. No more charging in on the surface with manned deck gun just because they have sails.

[Bothersome]

I, like you used to feel bad about sinking defenseless boats too.

Then one day I intentionally passed up a sanpan off my starboard bow one morning. About 30 minutes later I was being bombed from the skies by multiple aircraft from just about every direction. I managed to survive with 83 hull damage. I chalked it up to the sanpan radioing my position. So that removed all my doubt about them of being part of the war. You want to provide intelligence, then fine, you are now a warship and a viable target.

Later I felt guilty again when I came upon a pair of fishing boats in the middle of the night coming my way. I was in shallow water so I shut off all engines. Then I got the idea to call it in. So I send flash traffic to NSA for advice. They said, good find, sink freighter. I didn't see a freighter but I sank the fishing boats. Funny thing how the catch of the day explodes like TNT. Later I found a freighter at a port the fishing boats were heading to (why I was in shallow water). That was apparently the freighter HQ was interested in. When my patrol is finally over, I'll probably go up before a board of inquiry to explain why I attacked un-armed civilian ships.

Such is the price of war.

[Admiral8Q]

HEAT shots? Where are you getting High Explosive Anti Tank rounds from? :haha:

That's top secret, but I will say I have good friends in the armored division...:o

Actually, I tend to call HE "Heat" shots because the first sims I ever played many years ago I bought as a three pack including, "M1 Tank Platoon', "Silent Service 2", and "F19"

In M1 Tank Platoon they were HEAT and Sabot so high explosives has stuck in my head as "heat", well, you must admit, they are very hot! :cool:

[TwistedFemur]

I agree with the captain in Crimson Tide:

"Drop that ****er, twice!"

I'd sink anything flying a jap flag and piss off of the conning tower into the debris as I sailed by.

Steve


LOL I like the way you think:rock:

[TwistedFemur]

That's top secret, but I will say I have good friends in the armored division...:o

Actually, I tend to call HE "Heat" shots because the first sims I ever played many years ago I bought as a three pack including, "M1 Tank Platoon', "Silent Service 2", and "F19"

In M1 Tank Platoon they were HEAT and Sabot so high explosives has stuck in my head as "heat", well, you must admit, they are very hot! :cool:


Although High Explosive Anti Tank rounds(HEAT) act very different from High Explosive rounds.(HE)

[Admiral8Q]

Although High Explosive Anti Tank rounds(HEAT) act very different from High Explosive rounds.(HE)

I know that. Oi, let me be with calling HE, Heat! :shifty:

The M830A1 HEAT (High Explosive Anti-Tank) round, recently fielded for the M1A1 and M1A2 Main Battle Tank, is a major advancement over its predecessor, the M830, which has been in the US inventory since the early '80s. HEAT rounds have multi-purpose warheads which are used to defeat armored vehicles, helicopters and soft targets such as bunkers.
As for the deck gun, other than a lone unarmed merchant, or sampans, not the best weapon for a submarine, they also created drag which reduced underwater speed.

Submarines that were scouting the Japanese Empire waters frequently came upon sampans, which were often suspected of being naval lookouts or anti-submarine pickets. By April of 1942, submarine skippers decided to start thinning out the sampan fleet and a periscope contact often resulted in the order of "Battle Surface". The results of a piboat going up against a lightly armed, floating bundle of wood one would think could be easily determined, however sinking these pesky little vessels was not a simple as first thought. Theodore Roscoe, in his book US SUBMARINE OPERATIONS IN WW II, states: "They could be riddled with .30 and .50 caliber machine gun bullets and holed several times by 3 or 5 inch shells and remain afloat like a box of Swiss cheese". More often than not, a submarine's deck gun was of greater value for overall morale than it was for combat effectiveness. A submerged boat that was damaged by an enemy surface vessel could, as a last ditch effort to survive, surface and engage in a gun battle, although with the odds generally stacked heavily against it. That, my friends, is why HE (High Explosives) was necessary!

[Sailor Steve]

Actually there is no reason to ever carry anything but HE, as there was nothing a submarine could shoot at that was armored. Of the guns I've seen listed, only the 3"/50 had an AP round designed for it anyway.

[CptGorilla]

After getting the Montana playable ship mod, I decided to start a new campaign, and guess what first ship I came across! Oh yes! A fishing boat! I so thought of this thread, so I took a picture just for you!

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/396/sh4img20100326180253234.png
(Sorry for it being dark...)

I can just see Admiral8Q now: :wah: <(Why did you sink a poor innocent fishing boat? WHY???)

And yes, I sank the second one in the back too :P

[jegas]

LOL - it's a game - a modern version of chess - be glad it's only a game. Feel bad? No Way. I only feel bad when I get sunk! LOL

Real war? another matter altogether.

[msowsun]

How about life rafts? I have only been playing SH4 for about a month and have shot up a few life rafts with my AA gun.

My reasoning was I thought they might be trying to salvage some explosives to continue the fight. Sure enough, after a few well placed rounds, "They BLOWED UP Real Good".

They must have been carrying a lot of explosives to make such fireball.

Proof positive. Sink Them All.

[HMCS]

Mush Morton, the hero of the Silent Service, killed survivors in the water from a sunken troop transport. Taken from Wikipedia:

During Wahoo's third war patrol, Morton was responsible for an incident which resulted in several hundred shipwrecked soldiers of a sunken Japanese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan) transport killed by machine gun fire while in the water.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dudley_W._Morton#cite_note-1) Unlike German submariner Heinz-Wilhelm Eck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz-Wilhelm_Eck), who was executed as a war criminal for ordering the killing of civilian maritime shipwreck survivors, Morton did not face any criminal liability for his actions. Richard O'Kane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_O%27Kane) believed this event prevented Morton from being awarded the Medal of Honor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medal_of_Honor).[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dudley_W._Morton#cite_note-2)
Rear Admiral Richard O'Kane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_O%27Kane), who was on Wahoo's bridge when the incident took place, likened it by descriptive analogy (but not by actual reference) to the attacks on small craft made during the evacuation at Dunkirk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkirk_evacuation) in 1940, and for the same reason: to prevent an enemy from recovering a body of troops that would shortly fight again.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dudley_W._Morton#cite_note-3) However it should be noted that the Hague Convention of 1907 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Conventions_%281899_and_1907%29#Hague_Conven tion_of_1907) bans the killing of shipwrecked under any circumstances

Another view of the action:
At 1342 that afternoon, he gave the order to fire on the boats with the Wahoo’s 4”/50 cal. deck gun and .50 caliber machine guns after having received incoming small arms fire as they approached the scene. The gun’s methodically aimed fire quickly turned the boats into flotsam. Morton’s intentions were to destroy the boats and thus their means of reaching friendly territory; in essence finishing the mission of sinking the transport. Reports of what actually happened differ depending how much one saw and where they were located during the action. According to Richard O’Kane, Morton’s executive officer (who was probably below during much of the action and thus had a poor vantage point), “some Japanese troops were undoubtedly hit during this action, but no individual was deliberately shot in the boats or the sea.” O’Kane also stated that Morton even sharply reprimanded a sailor who shot at a soldier with a .45 caliber pistol when it appeared the soldier was going to lob a grenade at the sub. George Grider, the Engineering Officer described the action as “nightmarish minutes”. One other account had at least one soldier deliberately killed with machine gun fire. By 1400, the action was finished and the Wahoo departed the area. A total of 282 men had been killed. Morton openly reported the incident in both message form and in his subsequent patrol report, which was reviewed by the chain of command and eventually received a glowing endorsement from Commander Submarines Pacific, Admiral Charles Lockwood. No attempt was made to hide or diminish anything. Morton actually badly overestimated the number of troops killed, estimating the number to be between 6,000 and 10,000. In a supremely ironic and tragic postscript, it was later revealed that the Buyo Maru also carried 491 British allied Indian P.O.W’s, 195 of which were killed. This was information that Morton obviously did not have at the time. The remainder of the ship’s 1,126 troops, P.O.W’s, and crew were rescued by the Japanese. All told only 87 Japanese were killed.

Given the rather conservative nature of American society in those days this incident shocked some people, including other American submariners. Revulsion over WWI German U-boat tactics had lead to a re-emphasis of post-Victorian era laws of armed conflict which placed a great deal of restraint on submarine and surface raider operations. Rigid training on these conventions during the 20’s and 30’s lead to a very conservative mindset amongst many naval officers. Most believed that this type of action was forbidden under the terms of the Hague Conventions of 1907. However, the conventions were somewhat ambiguous on this point and were rendered altogether moot once the order to commence unrestricted submarine warfare was issued immediately following Pearl Harbor.

[razark]

Mush Morton, the hero of the Silent Service, killed survivors in the water from a sunken troop transport.

See also Heinz-Wilhelm_Eck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz-Wilhelm_Eck), who was executed after WWII for doing the same.

Article at uboat.net (http://uboat.net/articles/index.html?article=18&page=2)

[Admiral8Q]

And another one down, another one down, another one bites the dust...

All in a day's work.:DL
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/7489/dustg.png

[Hylander_1314]

I can't find the link, but I read somewhere the fishing boats are good targets as the Japanese used shark oil for lubricants in engines and machinery. So you may be saving a B-29 crew by sinking them.

[Ducimus]

On a serious note, i don't feel bad about shooting japanese san pans, junks, or the like at all, and not just because it's only a game. But also because, between Pearl harbor, and images of japans inhuman treatment of prisoners, and other various war crimes they committed, its VERY easy to have only one overriding emotion if one pictures themselves there in theater, at the time. That emotion is anger, expressed as Vengeance.

[Admiral8Q]

Yes, I know they killed 200 000 Chinese because they wanted territory, not people.:down:

[Nisgeis]

See also Heinz-Wilhelm_Eck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz-Wilhelm_Eck), who was executed after WWII for doing the same.

Article at uboat.net (http://uboat.net/articles/index.html?article=18&page=2)

Not quite the same. The 'liferafts' that Eck fired at did not have machine guns, which returned fire. Do lifeboats have machine guns? I don't think so.

[Jan Kyster]

Tell me what's happening here - or what you think! - and win a six-pack!
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z15/subject_rod/Junkmeeting.jpg

[JetSnake]

Yes, I know. I still feel bad every time I sink one though. :hmmm:



It is a video game. :88)

[Jten]

"Tell me what's happening here - or what you think! - and win a six-pack!"

Let me guess...the sub stopped for some Chinese take-away? "22 Mu-shoo-porks, 31 Fried Rice, 17 Hunan Beef and 70 fortune cookies. And make it all watertight to 300 feet!"

[jerm138]

It is a video game. :88)

True. But I'd feel bad about playing a video game that had parts where you kill babies too. To some people (myself included) even simulating an atrocity affects you. I'm not claiming moral superiority... it's just that people are different. You have the ability to make that disconnect, some of us don't. ;)

[Ducimus]

it's just that people are different. You have the ability to make that disconnect, some of us don't. ;)

On a somewhat related note, the ability to (emotionally) disconnect is a huge decider on what person will, or will not do, or what they are able to tolerate or endure. Being emotionally disconnected isn't something most people experience, so in all honesty, i don't think most people really know what they are capable or incapable of.

[Bilge_Rat]

This reminds me of a story I saw on Ken Burns' "The War", about a P-47 pilot who carried out ground attack missions in Normandy. He remembered one mission where he caught german trucks out on an open road and strafed them. He could see soldiers jumping out of the truck, being struck by the bullets and the bodies being flung into the ditches like rag dolls. When he got back to his base and climbed out of his plane, he threw up and was physically sick over what he had done. The next day he flew out and did the same thing all over again. He knew he had no choice, this was war and he had a job to do.

When you sink a merchant ship, whether allied or japanese, merchant sailors and often men, women and children passengers will die a horrible death either burned to death, drowned, thirst, sharks, etc.,... you do it because its your job, not because you like it... the guilt will come later after the war is won.

I sink every legitimate target I see, the only choice is what weapon do I use.

[jerm138]

This reminds me of a story I saw on Ken Burns' "The War", about a P-47 pilot who carried out ground attack missions in Normandy...

My dad was a door-gunner on a Huey in Vietnam and told me a very similar story.

[Bothersome]

I don't know if this forum has spoiler tags, don't see any on the posting screen...

color change to try. highlight to see.

d
Knowing how the program handles contacts, specifically, how the AI is tracking the player, any enemy ship sets a flag that player location is known. The game will call forth other enemies to harass the player. Planes, other destroyers, etc.

Therefore, you should stay out of detection of any enemy or be destroyed.

Any mental problems you have is coming from the role playing. Just imagine that the Junks, and San-Pans have radios and call in your location.

[Admiral8Q]

I wouldn't call that a spoiler. If they spotted you, they will report your position.:)