Why end in 1943?

[Barso]

Apologies if this is historically accurate but why does the campaign end in 1943?
Is it paving the way for DLC?

[Noren]

Who knows, ask ubisoft!!!! Probably a matter of time and budget.

We can only speculate, as we do in so many other areas; like bugs and the lack of uboats.

[thruster]

i like to think that its cos theyve concentrated so much detail/time with the one type of boat and first period of the war, that theyre going to finish off the war with another dedicated effort...........its nearly easter, cant wait for the easter bunny!

also, for simplistic arcade style gameplay, uboats had minimal chance of just getting past biscay or even surviving a convoy attack from '44 onwards, that wont make much of a shoot em up game.

[Safe-Keeper]

It could simply be that limiting themselves to half the campaign gives them opportunity to make the first half more detailed. Same reason there's only one u-boat to choose from. Indeed, the SH5 campaigns are far more detailed and dynamic than III and 4 ever were. I personally don't mind it... isn't a different question to me than "Why can I only play as a German" or "Why are there only Atlantic campaigns"?

I seem to be the only person in the whole world to think so, though, and some other people have even called it a bug or error, as if it was done accidentally and had to be "fixed".

But yes, if SH5 sells well we'll probably see an x-pack adding the later war years and at least one more u-boat type -- I'm guessing the Type IX.

[Frederf]

The rationales given were:

1. Late war tech gets rather complex, hard and/or time-consuming to code. Without the late war tech developments it's fruitless to let the clock run that far.

2. 'Till '43 were the "happy times" that give the player the most enjoyment (read: arcade) gameplay.

[kylania]

DLC is probably the "real" reason, though the reason given was that since the game focuses exclusively on the Type VII boat they ended it right after the "Happy Times". After '43 it's just death and pain for us. :) It supposedly allowed them to focus on all the details and make a wonderful VII sim instead of a WWII sim.

[oscar19681]

It is susspected (so goos the forum gossing) that the game was releases to soon to add the missing u-boats and rest of the campaign. It is thought that the rest of the campaign (and u-boats) will be added through DLC or addons. Not bad a bad (sorry stoned)idea if done right.

[Safe-Keeper]

Maybe they're pulling a Maxis -- if they could release an incredibly shallow game and then gradually patch it up with a mountain of x-packs, why can't Ubisoft make a game where you only have one sim and three years, and then build on it, x-pack by x-pack?

First X-Pack will add lots of cool furniture and clothes for your u-boat and crew.
The second will allow you to party in the pub after reaching port.
The third will allow you to cast spells.
The fourth adds the Type II and Type IX.

Etc. etc. etc.

[OakGroove]

A less known fact is the Kriegsmarine running out of morale boosting "soup" in '43. Though thinking about it, DLC seems to be a more likely explanation, as UPlay is about online distribution.

[Nafod81]

It is susspected (so goos the foruy gossing) that the game was releases to soon to add the missing u-boats and rest of the campaign. It is thought that the rest of the campaign (and u-boats) will be added through DLC or addons. Not bad a bad idea if done right.

I think we'd be lucky to see this. Depending on the pricing I'd weigh purchasing such a product. However it seems most of the Subsim community wishes to doom this product to obscurity.

[Barso]

Thanks for the replies.
Does SH4 take me from start to finish of the war?
I do enjoy SH5 but ending the war slot earlier does somehow feel incomplete even if the start was the better years, it's war, there is no better years apart from the winner at the end.

[Nafod81]

And playing WWII as a German....you won't win.

[Ducimus]

I suspect '43 was a good cut off point due to restrictions in budget and development time.

[Barso]

I know but shouldn't the SH5 as a sim deal with the pressure of losing the war?

[Yak]

While DLC is probably the most likely, the optimist in me has one intriguing idea:

Has anyone finished the campaign yet?
Reading the story based nature of certain segments of the campaign (like assuming command from the captain and specific missions inserted into it, the thought occurred that there could very well be a Das Boot style 'unwinnable mission' at the end, where you get a cinematic scripted mission that see's your boat and crew die, but not just a 'boom your dead' thing.

Could provide a real twist, something like the post-nuke death scene in Call of Duty 4.

[Noren]

But SH5 has pictures for major and minor victory, aswell as a draw.

[Barso]

Thanks, do you recommend SH4 with uboat xpac or stick with SH5?
I know SH5 has only been born but do you think the modders will stick with it?

[janh]

This discussion seems familiar... Didn't we have it already several times? Did someone just miss to post in the right thread or is it just about optimizing the discussion to perfection? I wonder...

[SteamWake]

I suspect '43 was a good cut off point due to restrictions in budget and development time.

Ding! we really only have time to model one boat...

[Yak]

That argument doesn't really hold up though, because Type VII's were in use in 1944 and 1945.

SH5 has already clearly demonstrated two things: One they're not too fussed about specific variants of type VII and have a hybrid design with features from all, plus you have the ability to upgrade your boat, so theoretically it wouldn't have been hard for them to slot in the basic upgrades of a 44/45 Type VII over the 1942/43 versions.

[magic452]

Thanks, do you recommend SH4 with uboat xpac or stick with SH5?
I know SH5 has only been born but do you think the modders will stick with it?

I would recommend SH 4 and Operation Monsoon, goes to the end and you still lose.
That will give them a chance to fix 5.... maybe.
The modders are hard at work on it and are pretty enthusiastic about it so they no doubt will give it their best shot.

Magic

[SabreHawk]

Why end it in 43' ? because it was over for the Uboat arm by 43', after that they Type VII's rein was at an end, and so few further designs after it saw service they aren't worth doing.
They all but a few were hunted own and sunk or captured.
Essentially, the war was really over for them at that point.

[irish1958]

SH5 is called "The Battle of the Atlantic," and this was over in April-May of 1943.
Earlier in 1943, the U-Boats had unprecedented success with overwhelming losses for the Allies in March and April. These losses finally got Adm. King's attention and an all-out Allied war on the U-Boats ensued with massive losses to the U-Boats. As a result, Adm. Donitz recalled all U-Boats from the Atlantic and they never again attacked the convoys, but were limited to defensive action and attacks in the waters near England.
The Battle of the Atlantic was over.

[Iron Budokan]

I suspect '43 was a good cut off point due to restrictions in budget and development time.

I believe you are correct. Except that's not the rationale Ubi gave.

I still don't understand why they just didn't admit it was due to budgetary and time restrictions. No one in their right mind would blame them for that. But the intellectually dishonest rationale they did give for stopping the game in '43 simply doesn't stand up.

[Barso]

Thanks, would it be possible to mod the capaign to extend it or am I going to have to wait until ubisoft see's how much profit SH5 made and if it's worth making DLC for it?

[Iron Budokan]

Why end it in 43' ? because it was over for the Uboat arm by 43', after that they Type VII's rein was at an end, and so few further designs after it saw service they aren't worth doing.
They all but a few were hunted own and sunk or captured.
Essentially, the war was really over for them at that point.

And that's why the entire war is a perfect game arc for a simulation. Games usually get more difficult as time goes on. They operate on an asymptotic curve of level difficulty. This game stops in '43 when the U-boats were at the height of their power. In other words, the arc stops at a plateau. That makes absolutely NO sense in terms of playability.

Unless you're making an arcade.

Oh, wait....

[Iron Budokan]

I must say I have absolutely no patience for the constant (and intellectually dishonest) rationale that the Battle of the Atlantic was over in '43.

How many tons of Allied shipping was sunk from '43 on? How many Allied sailors were drowned? How many U-boat crews were destroyed? I'm sure someone has these statistics at their fingertips.

Tell the dead men who died that this battle was "over" after '43.

Spin it how you like. This rationale simply doesn't hold water in the face of historical fact.

[ReallyDedPoet]

How many tons of Allied shipping was sunk from '43 on? How many Allied sailors were drowned? How many U-boat crews were destroyed? I'm sure someone has these statistics at their fingertips.


Ships hit by U-boats in WWII (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/)

Ship losses by month

Click on the month to see list of all ships hit that month.
Each page has a map showing where the ships were attacked.

1939

Sep (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1939-09&string=September+1939) (53)Oct (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1939-10&string=October+1939) (37)Nov (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1939-11&string=November+1939) (30)Dec (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1939-12&string=December+1939) (47)167 ships hit in 1939.
1940

Jan (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1940-01&string=January+1940) (58)Feb (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1940-02&string=February+1940) (54)Mar (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1940-03&string=March+1940) (26)Apr (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1940-04&string=April+1940) (11)May (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1940-05&string=May+1940) (17)Jun (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1940-06&string=June+1940) (67)Jul (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1940-07&string=July+1940) (43)Aug (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1940-08&string=August+1940) (66)Sep (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1940-09&string=September+1940) (63)Oct (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1940-10&string=October+1940) (73)Nov (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1940-11&string=November+1940) (36)Dec (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1940-12&string=December+1940) (50)564 ships hit in 1940.
1941

Jan (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1941-01&string=January+1941) (15)Feb (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1941-02&string=February+1941) (47)Mar (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1941-03&string=March+1941) (50)Apr (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1941-04&string=April+1941) (48)May (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1941-05&string=May+1941) (66)Jun (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1941-06&string=June+1941) (65)Jul (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1941-07&string=July+1941) (21)Aug (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1941-08&string=August+1941) (32)Sep (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1941-09&string=September+1941) (60)Oct (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1941-10&string=October+1941) (51)Nov (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1941-11&string=November+1941) (17)Dec (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1941-12&string=December+1941) (28)500 ships hit in 1941.
1942

Jan (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1942-01&string=January+1942) (66)Feb (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1942-02&string=February+1942) (82)Mar (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1942-03&string=March+1942) (99)Apr (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1942-04&string=April+1942) (89)May (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1942-05&string=May+1942) (146)Jun (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1942-06&string=June+1942) (145)Jul (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1942-07&string=July+1942) (108)Aug (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1942-08&string=August+1942) (131)Sep (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1942-09&string=September+1942) (116)Oct (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1942-10&string=October+1942) (121)Nov (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1942-11&string=November+1942) (142)Dec (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1942-12&string=December+1942) (76)1321 ships hit in 1942.
1943

Jan (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1943-01&string=January+1943) (49)Feb (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1943-02&string=February+1943) (88)Mar (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1943-03&string=March+1943) (131)Apr (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1943-04&string=April+1943) (57)May (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1943-05&string=May+1943) (49)Jun (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1943-06&string=June+1943) (27)Jul (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1943-07&string=July+1943) (59)Aug (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1943-08&string=August+1943) (30)Sep (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1943-09&string=September+1943) (25)Oct (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1943-10&string=October+1943) (31)Nov (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1943-11&string=November+1943) (16)Dec (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1943-12&string=December+1943) (17)579 ships hit in 1943.
1944

Jan (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1944-01&string=January+1944) (20)Feb (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1944-02&string=February+1944) (28)Mar (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1944-03&string=March+1944) (22)Apr (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1944-04&string=April+1944) (12)May (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1944-05&string=May+1944) (17)Jun (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1944-06&string=June+1944) (22)Jul (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1944-07&string=July+1944) (27)Aug (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1944-08&string=August+1944) (37)Sep (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1944-09&string=September+1944) (15)Oct (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1944-10&string=October+1944) (10)Nov (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1944-11&string=November+1944) (11)Dec (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1944-12&string=December+1944) (25)246 ships hit in 1944.
1945

Jan (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1945-01&string=January+1945) (24)Feb (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1945-02&string=February+1945) (24)Mar (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1945-03&string=March+1945) (21)Apr (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1945-04&string=April+1945) (23)May (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1945-05&string=May+1945) (6)Jul (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1945-07&string=July+1945) (1)99 ships hit in 1945.

Note: The figures include all ships hit (sunk, damaged, captured etc.).

From uboat.net

[SteamWake]

Ships hit by U-boats in WWII (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/)


Ship losses by month

Click on the month to see list of all ships hit that month.
Each page has a map showing where the ships were attacked.

1939

Sep (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1939-09&string=September+1939) (53)Oct (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1939-10&string=October+1939) (37)Nov (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1939-11&string=November+1939) (30)Dec (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1939-12&string=December+1939) (47)167 ships hit in 1939.
1940

Jan (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1940-01&string=January+1940) (58)Feb (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1940-02&string=February+1940) (54)Mar (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1940-03&string=March+1940) (26)Apr (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1940-04&string=April+1940) (11)May (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1940-05&string=May+1940) (17)Jun (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1940-06&string=June+1940) (67)Jul (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1940-07&string=July+1940) (43)Aug (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1940-08&string=August+1940) (66)Sep (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1940-09&string=September+1940) (63)Oct (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1940-10&string=October+1940) (73)Nov (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1940-11&string=November+1940) (36)Dec (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1940-12&string=December+1940) (50)564 ships hit in 1940.
1941

Jan (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1941-01&string=January+1941) (15)Feb (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1941-02&string=February+1941) (47)Mar (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1941-03&string=March+1941) (50)Apr (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1941-04&string=April+1941) (48)May (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1941-05&string=May+1941) (66)Jun (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1941-06&string=June+1941) (65)Jul (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1941-07&string=July+1941) (21)Aug (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1941-08&string=August+1941) (32)Sep (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1941-09&string=September+1941) (60)Oct (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1941-10&string=October+1941) (51)Nov (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1941-11&string=November+1941) (17)Dec (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1941-12&string=December+1941) (28)500 ships hit in 1941.
1942

Jan (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1942-01&string=January+1942) (66)Feb (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1942-02&string=February+1942) (82)Mar (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1942-03&string=March+1942) (99)Apr (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1942-04&string=April+1942) (89)May (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1942-05&string=May+1942) (146)Jun (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1942-06&string=June+1942) (145)Jul (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1942-07&string=July+1942) (108)Aug (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1942-08&string=August+1942) (131)Sep (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1942-09&string=September+1942) (116)Oct (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1942-10&string=October+1942) (121)Nov (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1942-11&string=November+1942) (142)Dec (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1942-12&string=December+1942) (76)1321 ships hit in 1942.
1943

Jan (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1943-01&string=January+1943) (49)Feb (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1943-02&string=February+1943) (88)Mar (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1943-03&string=March+1943) (131)Apr (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1943-04&string=April+1943) (57)May (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1943-05&string=May+1943) (49)Jun (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1943-06&string=June+1943) (27)Jul (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1943-07&string=July+1943) (59)Aug (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1943-08&string=August+1943) (30)Sep (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1943-09&string=September+1943) (25)Oct (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1943-10&string=October+1943) (31)Nov (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1943-11&string=November+1943) (16)Dec (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1943-12&string=December+1943) (17)579 ships hit in 1943.
1944

Jan (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1944-01&string=January+1944) (20)Feb (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1944-02&string=February+1944) (28)Mar (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1944-03&string=March+1944) (22)Apr (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1944-04&string=April+1944) (12)May (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1944-05&string=May+1944) (17)Jun (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1944-06&string=June+1944) (22)Jul (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1944-07&string=July+1944) (27)Aug (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1944-08&string=August+1944) (37)Sep (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1944-09&string=September+1944) (15)Oct (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1944-10&string=October+1944) (10)Nov (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1944-11&string=November+1944) (11)Dec (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1944-12&string=December+1944) (25)246 ships hit in 1944.
1945

Jan (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1945-01&string=January+1945) (24)Feb (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1945-02&string=February+1945) (24)Mar (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1945-03&string=March+1945) (21)Apr (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1945-04&string=April+1945) (23)May (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1945-05&string=May+1945) (6)Jul (http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/losses_year.html?qdate=1945-07&string=July+1945) (1)99 ships hit in 1945.

Note: The figures include all ships hit (sunk, damaged, captured etc.).

From uboat.net



Got one for uboats sunk for comparison?

[CCIP]

Got one for uboats sunk for comparison?

1939
57 U-boats were capable of going out to sea when the war began in September 1939. When the year ended 9 of them had been lost.

1940
24 boats were lost in 1940. U-31 was actually sunk twice so she appears twice in that number.

1941
35 boats were lost during 1941.

1942
The U-boat fleet lost 86 boats during this year, most of them in the latter half the year. A sign of things to come ...

1943
With the biggest convoy battles of the war and the highest number of boats at sea, stakes were high. In May 1943 the biggest loss to befall the U-boat fleet came with loss of 41 boats. Overall losses in 1943 were 243 U-boats.

1944
This year was even worse than 1943, steady losses all year brought the total up to 250 boats when the year came to and end.

1945
With the war coming to an end, overwhelming allied forced all around them, Germany lost over 120 U-boats in action in the first 5 months of the year.


:yep:

Source:
http://uboat.net/fates/losses/

[CCIP]

So, to put it in very quick mathematical perspective -

Between June 1943 and May 1945 (the part NOT included in SHV), what we have is
17.2% of total U-boat successes and 67.1% of U-boat losses.

If we do a quick-and-dirty correlation of this to the total lives lost in the Battle of the Atlantic as a whole, you are looking at around 5,200 merchant marine seamen, and 18,800 U-boat men who lost their lives during this time. :(

(*on the other hand, here's another sobering statistic for you - the total number of deaths on both sides in this tragic period of the Atlantic battle is less than 1/3 the number of people instantly killed by the bomb at Hiroshima, and about 1.7% of the total number of people killed at Auschwitz (i.e. 58 times less). Talk about perspective...)

[SabreHawk]

Excellent CCIP.:salute:

And as all we Das Boot fans know, of the 30,000 men who went to sea in those Uboats in all the war, by the end only 10,000 ever returned.

Even the film is an excellent example of things, even at the time that boat sailed. I mean how many ships did they sink on that patrol? Three maybe I think it was?
And then Bdu stupidly sent them on a suicide mission through the Gibraltar straits where they nearly lost the boat and crew, and then only to return to port to have it sunk at the pier, the captain and many of the crew killed and not even on the boat but on dry land.

[CCIP]

I think one point that the devs missed in the design of this game is that sinking ships is not all there is to a good U-boat sim. In fact for me sinking ships has always been a very small part of why I enjoy Silent Hunter games. Yet between the early war end, the overdone fireworks and the ludicrous tonnage goals, you can see where the focus of this game is, sadly... However the full-boat and crew elements are a good sign for the other side.

The fact is that blowing up ships is messy business, but it's not massively different from any other kind of game as far as gameplay goes. It's trying to survive where things get really strange and interesting in U-boat sims. That's why I always found late war interesting.

[blechritter]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_May_(1943)

[SabreHawk]

And then again sometimes im just happy to just go sailing along enjoying the sea and the boat not wanting to blow anything up at all, nor concerned with "game play"

I wish they'd do a sim based on just sailing and boating that sports SH5's engine and graphics.
So few of this kind.
Virtual Sailor is ok, but it's graphics and such dont come close. If it had SH5's graphics though................:yep:

[Faamecanic]

But yes, if SH5 sells well we'll probably see an x-pack adding the later war years and at least one more u-boat type -- I'm guessing the Type IX.

^^ This^^

All so they can sell you an expansion pack later on....which Im OK with provided UBI would have release a COMPLETE game that was at leas 80% bug free.... we have neither.

[CCIP]

I'm fine with a narrow-focus, study sim. But yeah, I'm not quite sure I can call SH5 a particularly successful study sim as yet. On the other hand the benchmark of study simulations, Falcon 4.0, was completely unplayable when it was released - and look at it now. Almost 12 years (not to mention 11 years since last official patch) and still going very strong. Community support can make all the difference.

The choice to end the war then and there is a bit odd - it doesn't completely turn me off, but as a design decision... I'm not convinced it was made why it was said to be made.

[Faamecanic]

I must say I have absolutely no patience for the constant (and intellectually dishonest) rationale that the Battle of the Atlantic was over in '43.

How many tons of Allied shipping was sunk from '43 on? How many Allied sailors were drowned? How many U-boat crews were destroyed? I'm sure someone has these statistics at their fingertips.

Tell the dead men who died that this battle was "over" after '43.

Spin it how you like. This rationale simply doesn't hold water in the face of historical fact.

What is also missing is the assumption this game could have made in respect to "if you do WELL and meet objectives, how could the battle have turned?"

A lot went into the fact that after May 1943 the War in the Atlantic was over.

One example is had German intel been CORRECT in identifying the FACT that Allied aircraft were in FACT using newer radar (Centametric?? radar) instead of thinking this kind of radar could never have been flown in planes as it was to large, then things may have indeed changed in favor of the Uboats. They would have had radar detection devices that would have detected this radar miles out.... Instead Uboat men were told that thier radar detection devices were giving away thier position.... This is just ONE example.

Add to that a diminishing supply of Iron (All the metal was going for the Luftwaffe, then tanks for the army, then artillery, THEN the Uboats got what was left) left Germnay without the capacity to build up the Uboat arm like Adm. Doenitz suggested (as well as Adm. Raeder) in 1935 and on..... Had Hitler let the KM build the number of uboats they wanted from the get go... the war would have ended long before 1943, and it would have ended with England in a stranglehold.

[Salvadoreno]

Wow i cant believe so many are actually supporting the fact the UBI has intentionally left out 43-45 because they wanted to make more $$$ on an xpack....

A polished and concentrated effort on the first game???? Hmm jugding from the subsim review, many user complaints, and the endless bugs being reported... This is far from a effort from UBI to release a good 1st halve of the war...

I mean common guys... The game sounds flawed, thank god for dedicated mods that are springing up like weeds to fix this so-called disaster of a game.

In SH3 some of my most intense moments were the biscay run., the endless crash dives, and the INCREDIBLE sense of accomplishment if you actually found a convoy, successfully penetrated the screen, sunk at least ONE boat, and returned to port safely.. How on EARTH could you leave out a part of the war in a WWII SIM?!?!?? This is just mind boggling.

After reading so many complaints but also reading the upside, i was about to spend my 50 some dollars on a game that was already being fixed by mods. Then i heard it ended in 1943.... What a killer :damn::damn:.

No Operation Drumbeat?? No special missions to Japan?? No Milk Cows?? AND NO WOLFPACKS!?!?! Ugh this just sucks soo bad. I was so excited when i heard Sh5 was coming out, i was even prepared to buy the unfinished product. WHY must i always be dissapointed by developers who stopped giving a ****!?!?

The last game i bought and enjoyed was Company of Heroes.. Jesus even that game was bugged but it still was more polished than most games.

::rant rant:: Okay im done now.. Back to just stalking the forums and mod forum and wait for a big change. But i would like to say..

YOU MODS ARE ANGELS SENT FROM HEAVEN!!!!! THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIRELESS EFFORTS TO MAKE A TERRIBLE GAME WORTH PLAYING, AND FOR THE SELFLESS REASON OF MAKING A GOOD GAME FOR US TARDS WHO DONT KNOW HOW TO CODE!!! THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!!

[U-96]

I would imagine cause 1943 was the last year U-Boats stood any chance in the Atlantic, from late 43 on they were pretty much steel coffins. Even with the few boats who got the Schnorkel, it was nearly impossible to do any good out there. And since SH5 seems to be a more personal experience then a technical one, It would make sense to end it in 1943

[Hartmann]

The atlantic war was lost for three main causes

Enigma code breaking
insuficient Radar tech
No develop XXI XXIII in time

if germany had several XXI units at may of 1943 things could be a lot different.

Ubi don´t release a complete game because they don´t had enough time to depelop complex Radars and IX boats , not because the war was over.

It´s not very difficult make a campaign with a end placed in 1943 with the possibility of continue as an option. or let the player choose if he want´s to play late years

[John Channing]

The atlantic war was lost for three main causes

Enigma code breaking
insuficient Radar tech
No develop XXI XXIII in time

if germany had several XXI units at may of 1943 things could be a lot different.

Ubi don´t release a complete game because they don´t had enough time to depelop complex Radars and IX boats , not because the war was over.

It´s not very difficult make a campaign with a end placed in 1943 with the possibility of continue as an option. or let the player choose if he want´s to play late years

You missed Two important factors.

Almost all of their experienced Captains and crews were either dead or captured by late '43 while the Allies were getting to be expert Hunter/Killers.

As well their national infrastructure was at the point of being almost completely destroyed so whether they could keep those boats at sea was debateable. They were in the same position as the Japanese after Midway. No amount of technology could make up for the fact that the Germans were getting weaker and weaker while the Allies were getting stronger.

JCC

[vanjast]

So Ubi have given us half a game, at full price ???:woot:

[OakGroove]

KM U-Boats set out to sea till 05/45, no rhetoric or afterthought will change these events. As for ending the game ´43 and providing just a single boat type; i cannot make out a valid reason other than trying to monetize various game aspects.

[OakGroove]

So Ubi have given us half a game, at full price ???:woot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GmLbQDCP34

[Faamecanic]

You missed Two important factors.

Almost all of their experienced Captains and crews were either dead or captured by late '43 while the Allies were getting to be expert Hunter/Killers.

As well their national infrastructure was at the point of being almost completely destroyed so whether they could keep those boats at sea was debateable. They were in the same position as the Japanese after Midway. No amount of technology could make up for the fact that the Germans were getting weaker and weaker while the Allies were getting stronger.

JCC


But again the point of the dynamic campaign in this game is that if you do well the war goes in your favor. To me from the first patrol your boat sets sail you are changing history.

The fact of the matter is Uboats still set said up until 05/45. I do miss that in GWX 3.0 if you expect to survive until the end of the war (playing dead is dead), you may be expecting a bit much. I have never lived to the end of the war in GWX.... but the one time I made it to Jan. 1944 I was ELATED.

I feel they left off SH5 at 1943 was due to 1) Lack of other sub interiors and 2) lack of time/money to develop anything further. In hopes sales would be "SO GREAT...a BLOCKBUSTER I tell ya" :rotfl2::rotfl2: that they would release an expansion to finish the game. :down:

[janh]

I feel they left off SH5 at 1943 was due to 1) Lack of other sub interiors and 2) lack of time/money to develop anything further. In hopes sales would be "SO GREAT...a BLOCKBUSTER I tell ya" :rotfl2::rotfl2: that they would release an expansion to finish the game. :down:


I wouldn't care about all the other sub interiors of the II, IX and XXI types being generic type VII rooms. Most casual players would know anyway, nor would it make such a huge difference for the simulation aspect of this submarine warfare simulation (it's not "Sims under the Sea"). Then modders could hop in and fix the interiors if desired.

Did Ubisoft Romania at least hardcode all the necessary functions for late war vessels and equipment? Say Hedgehogs, leighlights, acoustic torpedoes etc.? Will modders be easily able to add old SHIII models and equipment and script a 43-45 final campaign? Or was Ubisoft Romania careful enough to leave that support out in order to ensure being able to publish an addon, or even "SHVI - The Final years"? Anyone thought about this?

[Gilbou]

Since the Uboats basically left Atlantic for other seas,
Perhaps their idea was SH5 covering Atlantic from 1939 to 1943
And then an expansion pack to cover the Asian fleet as Uboats
where moved there from 1943 and more, and the Mediterranean.

[Piggy]

Apologies if this is historically accurate but why does the campaign end in 1943?
Is it paving the way for DLC?

IMO, yes. If sales warrant further dev...

To me the challenge of the later war, with the odds stacked against you is more appealing.