Did Ubisoft just deactivate all german copies of SH5?

[Kapitanleutnant]

I just read this on another forum:
Ubisoft disabled all german Collector's Edition copies of Silent Hunter 5. They forgot to remove a Swastika in the CE manual and demand that the customer sends the manual to Ubisoft. Until then, their game will be disabled. Great way to care about the customer.Can any German forum members confirm or deny this?

edit: semi-confirmation from this (http://gamepolitics.com/2010/03/12/silent-hunter-5-ce-recalled-germany) website, but that just confirms a recall. Still don't know about deactivations.

[gimpy117]

they have to. im sure this is the German government...not UBI

its actually illegal to show Nazi symbols in Germany. so the have to recall and remove it.

[Kapitanleutnant]

They have to recall it, but if they've disabled the game (can't confirm that) that would only be possible because of That Which Must Not Be Named. In any previous time the recall would be ultimately down to the customer to decide whether or not to give up access to their game.
Course, we still don't know if Ubi have actually disabled it.

[Adam84]

they have to. im sure this is the German government...not UBI

its actually illegal to show Nazi symbols in Germany. so the have to recall and remove it.

Ubisoft have been making WW2 games for years, how on earth did they make this mistake?

:o

[SteamWake]

So now they cant play the game untill they return a manual?

Un freakin believable I wonder how many are right now looking into hacks?

Damn Ubi your product launch is full of fail !

[Decoman]

If this is true, I suppose this is another awkward bieffect of the DRM initiative.

[Nisgeis]

Ubisoft have been making WW2 games for years, how on earth did they make this mistake?

:o

Blizzard managed to do the same thing:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/25369/Wolfenstein_Removed_From_Sale_In_Germany_Due_To_Na zi_Symbols.php

So now they cant play the game untill they return a manual?

Un freakin believable I wonder how many are right now looking into hacks?

Damn Ubi your product launch is full of fail !

The news is all over the web, but it's all repeats of one source, which says that the Collector's Edition only is affected. This has caused some to speculate that it's the manual that is the offending article, but it's possible that the offending article is in fact in the game (part of extended skins or just a localisation process that was missed), in which case disabling the game is their best option. There's jail time involved with such a crime. Does the standard German version come with a manual?

[The Enigma]

Blizzard managed to do the same thing:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/25369/Wolfenstein_Removed_From_Sale_In_Germany_Due_To_Na zi_Symbols.php



The news is all over the web, but it's all repeats of one source, which says that the Collector's Edition only is affected. This has caused some to speculate that it's the manual that is the offending article, but it's possible that the offending article is in fact in the game (part of extended skins or just a localisation process that was missed), in which case disabling the game is their best option. There's jail time involved with such a crime. Does the standard German version come with a manual?


This shows again, how bad the DRM for customers is.
Now other parties can control UBI for whatever reason to stop you from playing a game.

Are you, who don't care about this form of DRM, still in denying about the tremendous impact it has on the ppl who want's to play a game they have bought?

UBI has created a monstrous instrument they don't even can control and other parties will/may use that instrument too.

[Prientje]

I just read this on another forum:
Can any German forum members confirm or deny this?

edit: semi-confirmation from this (http://gamepolitics.com/2010/03/12/silent-hunter-5-ce-recalled-germany) website, but that just confirms a recall. Still don't know about deactivations.

Its not true and nonsens !

I have the Collector's Edition

and im in Germany

[longam]

Ubisoft have been making WW2 games for years, how on earth did they make this mistake?

:o

It was that 10th developer they hired to do graphics. He has never been to Subsim.com so he know nothing of the world. :cool:

[Nisgeis]

Its not true and nonsens !

I have the Collector's Edition

Are you in Germany with the German Collector's Edition?

[bart]

The news is all over the web, but it's all repeats of one source, which says that the Collector's Edition only is affected. This has caused some to speculate that it's the manual that is the offending article, but it's possible that the offending article is in fact in the game (part of extended skins or just a localisation process that was missed), in which case disabling the game is their best option.

I've got the collectors edition here in the UK.

The symbol in question is on page 27 of the Official guide and it's real small, but it's there. I haven't seen anything yet in the vanilla game. Only reason I can think of why they would disable the game is to get folks to return it as they want them ALL back, otherwise some people may decide they want to keep it anyway. If it's disabled maybe folks are more likely to return it and get a new copy which will work.

Just a thought......

[Nisgeis]

I think you're right bart, about the reason why they disabled it. I know that distributing anything with a swastika in Germany is illegal, but I don't know if playing it / keeping it is equally as illegal. I do know that Ubi seem to have multiple versions of the CE and different names for it, but I have no idea what the German CE version includes.

[Nordmann]

But there are no swastikas actually in-game, so why would they need to disable the actual client? Only the manual need be returned, it doesn't make any sense to stop people from playing what they have purchased (no surprises there).

Ubi keep going from bad to worse, it's sheer incompetence. If I were a German CE holder, I would be sending it back, demanding a refund, and never buying one of their products again!

[Nisgeis]

But there are no swastikas actually in-game, so why would they need to disable the actual client?

I don't know - has that been confirmed? I've only see references to one article that said that the game had been recalled, but I don't speak German, so I have no idea if the original article says that it is only the manual that is affected. There are versions of SH5 with a swastika in it, if that's what you mean.

[Nordmann]

I don't know - has that been confirmed? I've only see references to one article that said that the game had been recalled, but I don't speak German, so I have no idea if the original article says that it is only the manual that is affected. There are versions of SH5 with a swastika in it, if that's what you mean.

Which versions? Because as far as I'm aware (going by the swastika mods made for the game on day one), it isn't in either the US or EU clients. It would be nice if someone could confirm that though.

[Nisgeis]

I thought the US version had them in. But yeah :DL answers would be nice. I can see Ubi getting their knickers in a twist with all their versions - why they had to have so many is beyond me. If it wasn't in any version, then it couldn't have made its way into the wrong version.

[Nordmann]

I thought the US version had them in. But yeah :DL answers would be nice. I can see Ubi getting their knickers in a twist with all their versions - why they had to have so many is beyond me.

My country has no laws against it, and indeed many of the WW2 games localised for Britain have the swastika included. I was under the impression that the game was one client fits all, and thus did not have the historical markings.

[Nisgeis]

As far as I know, there's a Europe version, which has no swastikas, regardless of their legality in whichever country, then there's a US version which has content unknown, but historically had had swastikas (SH3 UK version has no swastikas). Then there's probably an asiapac version.

I think Ubi have 'localised' versions for Europe as a whole, rather than individual countries. UK SH5 has no swastikas in.

[Nordmann]

I think Ubi have 'localised' versions for Europe as a whole, rather than individual countries. UK SH5 has no swastikas in.

Sounds about right, lazy buggers.

[EAF274 Johan]

Apart from the illegal symbology, is the Collector's Edition manual actually useful? :DL

[Nisgeis]

The UK version has a printed manual and it's more useful than the PDF version, as the graphics are higher resolution - the PDF is just awfully blurry. The actual 'content' is the same, so not really useful no :DL. No idea what the strategy guide contains... I heard it's not so good.

[Skybird]

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing024.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

[Gilbou]

So how do they do in Germany with pictures from WW2 ?

Pretend it did not happen ? That flags were just red with a white
circle ?

This is close to the red line of rewriting history...

Denying history and truth is not a step in the direction of
intellectual and moral rightness.

What matters is stuff to be historically correct. I really feel
uneasy when some people (a minority) comes and tells you
what you can say/write/show about something, a part of
history. There's something wrong there. You wonder what
will be under control next.

[CaptainHaplo]

Actual historical archives I believe are exempt from the law. It has to do with selling items that may include the symbology - aka - making money now off of something with a connection to the symbol.

Skybird or another of our german friends could probably clarify for us.

[GFC Christian]

Guten Abend,

page 15 of the German CE "Bible".....

http://german-freelancer-club.de/files/Swastika.JPG


UBISOFT called back all Collectors Edition from the stores here in Germany......and a lot of people used this opportunity to get their money back. :D

Actually everybody is searching for a swastika in Assassins Creed II... :har:

The Swastika is a so called "anticonstitutional symbol" and therefore prohibited. It's allwed to show it in coherence with "social or historical reconnaissance".

[Feldpost]

Ahoi,

i just came home to Wilhelmshaven from Trondheim, sailing with the german Collectors-Edition in germany :cool:

So i still can play that version in germany. Haven't got any EMail from Ubisoft yet but Amazon (where i bought it) sent me an EMail: I can send the game back for money refund if i want.
Also Amazon gave me a 5Eur gift coupon for that embarrassing circumstances :D

[Skybird]

Actual historical archives I believe are exempt from the law. It has to do with selling items that may include the symbology - aka - making money now off of something with a connection to the symbol.

Skybird or another of our german friends could probably clarify for us.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch_%C2%A7_86a

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verbotsgesetz_1947

[Seeadler]

Actual historical archives I believe are exempt from the law. It has to do with selling items that may include the symbology - aka - making money now off of something with a connection to the symbol.


The restriction of swastikas in public were imposed upon us by the Allied Control Council in 1945 and had to be included in the new republic laws.

exceptions:
Im Germany, the display of swastikas is allowed for civic education, in art or science, research and reporting regarding historical events, or history.

Computer games are categorized here as a toys and therefore not fall under these exceptions.

As for topic:
Ubisoft did not deactivate any german copy of the game.
They have stopped only the distribution of the CE in Germany and offers the customers who have already purchased this CE, to return this version and get money refund if they wish.

[Irichanu]

IIRC, history books in Germany have swastikas for educational purposes. If they start removing them from everywhere, it would be like using 1984 as an instruction manual.

[Echo76]

So, swastikas in any form in games are forbidden in Germany, like the blue swastika finnish air force used during WWII and which had nothing to do with nazis?

[Prientje]

Are you in Germany with the German

yes i am in Germany

i have the Collector's Edition

and that Ubisoft just deactivate all german copies of SH5 is abosluty not true and big nonsens !

i have the game from amazon and received this letter....

this letter say that you can give back the game if you like it...and then you received a Coupon therfore....

thats all....

maybe you can read/translate the letter....



Lieber Amazon Kunde,

Amazon hat eine wichtige Nachricht zu einem von Ihnen bestellten Produkt:

Sie haben bei uns das Spiel 'Silent Hunter 5 - Collector's Edition' (ASIN xxxxxx) gekauft (Bestellnummer siehe Betreff).

Dazu hat uns der Hersteller des Artikels 'Silent Hunter 5 - Collector's Edition' (ASIN xxxxxxx) folgendes mitgeteilt:

Es kam bei diesem Titel zu einem Produktionsfehler. Aufgrund dieses Fehlers enthält die ausgelieferte Version verfassungsfeindliche Symbole, die in Deutschland nicht verbreitet werden dürfen. Wir bedauern diese Unannehmlichkeit außerordentlich und bieten Ihnen an, Ihr Exemplar gegen Gutschrift an uns zurück zu senden. Leider können wir Ihnen keinen Austausch anbieten, da der Artikel aktuell nicht mehr produziert wird. Wenn der Artikel ein Geschenk war, bitten wir Sie, den Beschenkten darüber zu informieren.

Sobald Ihre Rücksendung bei uns eingebucht ist, senden wir Ihnen eine E-Mail, in der wir Ihnen die Gutschrift über den Warenwert und das Rückporto bestätigen.

Für die entstandene Unannehmlichkeit möchten wir uns außerdem mit einem Gutschein von Amazon in Höhe von 5 € entschuldigen, den Sie bis 31.12.2010 einlösen können. Sie finden den Gutschein weiter unten in dieser E-Mail.

Bitte benutzen Sie unser Online-Rücksendezentrum:

http://www.amazon.de/ruecksendezentrum

Dort leiten wir Sie Schritt für Schritt durch den Rückgabeprozess. Sie finden im Online-Rücksendezentrum auch eine ausdruckbare Rücksendungsübersicht, die Sie bitte Ihrer Sendung beilegen.

************************************************** *****************

Und hier ist Ihr Gutscheincode:
Einlösungscode: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(Für die Bestellung erforderlich!)

Betrag pro Gutschein: EUR 5,00
gültig bis: 31.12.2010
Produktgruppen: Software und Videogames
NICHT gültig für Bestellungen bei Amazon.de Marketplace!

************************************************** *****************

(Dies ist eine automatisch versendete E-Mail. Bitte antworten Sie nicht auf dieses Schreiben, da die E-Mail-Adresse nur zum Versenden, nicht aber zum Empfang von E-Mails eingerichtet ist.)

Freundliche Grüße

Kundenservice Amazon.de

[Nemesis43]

Translation:

Dear Amazon Customer,

Amazon has an important message for you regarding one of our products you ordered: You have purchased from us the game 'Silent Hunter 5 - Collector's Edition' (see invoice for order number).
Regarding this, the manufacturer of the item 'Silent Hunter 5 - Collector's Edition' has provided the following information:
This title has suffered a production error. Because of this error, the delivered version contains unconstitutional symbols which may not be distributed in Germany.
We regret this inconvenience severely, and offer you the option of returning your copy in return for a balance in your favor. Unfortunately, we cannot offer you a replacement, as the item is no longer being produced. If the item was a present, we ask that you inform the giver of this.
As soon as we have registered your return of the item, we will send you an e-mail in which we will state the amount of balance in your favor, amounting to the value of the item plus shipping costs incurred.
In return for this inconvenience, we present you with an additional voucher with a value of 5 Euro, which will be valid until 12/31/2010. You will find your voucher further below in this mail.

Please use the online returns center:
http://www.amazon.de/ruecksendezentrum

There, we'll lead you step by step through the return process. In the online returns center, you will also find a printable overview of your return to help you keep track of your return.

***********

And here is your voucher:
Redeem code: xxxxxxxxxxxxx
(used during ordering)

Value of voucher: 5 Euro.
Valid until 12/31/2010
Product group: Software and videogames.
NOT valid for orders on the Amazon.de marketplace.

***********

(This E-Mail was automatically sent. Please do not reply to this message, as the E-Mail address is only used for sending, not for reception of E-Mail.)

Friendly Greetings

Customer service Amazon.de

More or less :)

[Raptor]

Yet another example of UbiSoft's brilliant planning::yeah:

First they screw up the game itself :06:

Then they irritate their most loyal repeat-purchase demographic :damn:

Then they screw up the server support :o

Now they run afoul of German law about swastikas. You'd think that was something with which Europeans would be intimately familiar. :down:


These are career-ending mistakes at most businesses. :up:

[SteamWake]

Unconstitutional symbols...:har:

Yea I know its a translation but it just struck me as being funny.

[Hartmann]

welcome to the dictarship of new DRM, yo pay the money but you only play when ubi wants

i think that it have another danger, if ubi don´t want give more support to the game, like servers and patches for a not very popular niche game, deciding shutting down without non DRM patch

whit this also ubi saves a lot of bandwidth in DRM serves just in a time of problems with connections.

[pythos]

Ok, I understand the stance to not promote this blot on Germany's history. But this is just lame.

Historically these symbols flew EVERYWHERE!!

Does Japan hide from their symbol of the rising sun in their games dealing with WWII? The same Japan that has a past of being VERY brutal, and killing many thousands if not millions of innocents in horrible and vicious ways. No, they just seemed to have learned to fight by putting down their swords, and picking up their briefcases.

How about America and the slavery supporting Rebel flag in Civil war games? That symbol is still around, and models of Rebel vessels have that flag as part of the kit. Yes there are those idiots that say " The south shall rise again", but so what? If I have a model of the HN Hunley, I WANT THAT FLAG ON IT'S MAST!! Not an orange flag with no other details.

Under the Union Jack, MANY atrocities took place the effects of which several countries are still feeling the effects of. Yet that flag flies proudly.

Germany, accept that your country like all countries has a history of pure evil in your past. Stop hiding. Just never ever, ever, let a scum ball like Hitler and the Nazis at the helm of your great country.

Realize that intolerance in most of its forms are evil, and do nothing for human kind.

Negating the symbol in historical games is not a way of doing this!!!

Before people say, "well the Nazis were responsible for millions of innocent deaths" Let's not forget Stalin is recorded to have killed MORE of his own people, under the Red Star. Is that symbol along with the Hammer and Sickle negated in Games in Russia? I don't believe so.

German government seems to be paying attention to the symptom rather than the problem. IMO.

[msxyz]

Swastikas are not even an invention of the nazis. It's probably some stupid law that was imposed by the post war american protectorate and that has endured up to this time.

Here in Italy, it's against the law to promote fascism but the symbols were not removed because they do have their place in history. Besides, it would be pretty stupid because fascists just reused a lot of classic symbols which are everywhere; even the so called "roman salute" was a common way in the past to hail someone and in a less strict form it survived up to these days.

Speaking about symbols of fascism, you can even visit freely Benito Mussolini tomb: it's guarded 24/7 by volunteers in high uniform (most of them are former army members).

[ryanglavin]

Ok, I understand the stance to not promote this blot on Germany's history. But this is just lame.

Historically these symbols flew EVERYWHERE!!

Does Japan hide from their symbol of the rising sun in their games dealing with WWII? The same Japan that has a past of being VERY brutal, and killing many thousands if not millions of innocents in horrible and vicious ways. No, they just seemed to have learned to fight by putting down their swords, and picking up their briefcases.

How about America and the slavery supporting Rebel flag in Civil war games? That symbol is still around, and models of Rebel vessels have that flag as part of the kit. Yes there are those idiots that say " The south shall rise again", but so what? If I have a model of the HN Hunley, I WANT THAT FLAG ON IT'S MAST!! Not an orange flag with no other details.

Under the Union Jack, MANY atrocities took place the effects of which several countries are still feeling the effects of. Yet that flag flies proudly.

Germany, accept that your country like all countries has a history of pure evil in your past. Stop hiding. Just never ever, ever, let a scum ball like Hitler and the Nazis at the helm of your great country.

Realize that intolerance in most of its forms are evil, and do nothing for human kind.

Negating the symbol in historical games is not a way of doing this!!!

Before people say, "well the Nazis were responsible for millions of innocent deaths" Let's not forget Stalin is recorded to have killed MORE of his own people, under the Red Star. Is that symbol along with the Hammer and Sickle negated in Games in Russia? I don't believe so.

German government seems to be paying attention to the symptom rather than the problem. IMO.

And I notice, except for a special few historians, people completely ignore stalins atrocities on his own people, and focus solely on the camps in Germany...

[tater]

Heck, you'd get a pat on the back for wearing a murderer like Che on a t-shirt, right?

Even I think this is silly, and I won't even play a u-boat in a game cause it makes me feel creepy, lol.

[Nemesis43]

Unconstitutional symbols...:har:

Yea I know its a translation but it just struck me as being funny.

Yes, it does sound rather peculiar :)
However, the german wording is "verfassungsfeindliche Symbole", and "verfassung" = constitution, and "feindlich" = hostile. I suppose it's really "Symbols hostile to the constitution", then, but "unconstitutional" seemed the nearest useful approximation thereof ;)

[Nemesis43]

Ok, I understand the stance to not promote this blot on Germany's history. But this is just lame.

To be fair, the allies specifically shoehorned the banning of nazi symbology into the post war german constitution, so it's not really a decision of Germany itself to have it this way.

[Nordmann]

*Snip*

Does this mean that you must return the game, or is it a request? Because if it is a request, I would ignore it. It's not as if the political enforcement agency are going to come and dig through your games, checking for illegal iconography, right?

[Carotio]

Leider können wir Ihnen keinen Austausch anbieten, da der Artikel aktuell nicht mehr produziert wird.
:o
Sadly, we cannot offer to exchange to a new copy for you, since this product currently is no longer produced.
:hmmm:

Now that was an interesting part of that Amazon mail. It shall be interesting to see the next news about this... http://www.silenthuntermods.com/forum/Smileys/extended/popc.gif

[Skybird]

Does this mean that you must return the game, or is it a request? Because if it is a request, I would ignore it. It's not as if the political enforcement agency are going to come and dig through your games, checking for illegal iconography, right?

That could happen in combination with predating, more serious investigations against you, for example if you are under surveillance due to a suspicion of being a distributor of Nazi stuff, or the Office for the Protection of the Constitution (a national intelligence service) has listed you as a member of a Nazi organisation. It could also happen if you get raided by police over suspicion of pirating software, and then they check your collection. I cannot imagine that ressources get unlocked to raid your home for just the purpose of searching swastikas in games. Police hardly can be assumed to have these ressources free these days - they are short on personnell and money.

Theoretically, possessing the version that features the "unconstitutional symbol" is illegal in Germany and could lead you to getting sued. The legal basis is like that indeed. Downloading and possessing a swastika mod for IL-2 for example also could get you into trouble.

that is, if the law enforcement authorities would learn that you own such an illegal thing.then they have an obligation to examine.

Maybe it is clever then not to tell them, or anyone else.

Which leaves the interesting question what the legal grounds of German Amazon is if they know you have not returned your copy. Obviously they know that you ordered it, and if you do not return it, you still owe it.

Maybe they agree to not use their sensitive information against you if you agree to pay them a monthly fee. :D

However, nowadays that your internet data is stored everywhere for eons to come, it certainly is a clever idea if you are German or austrian not to boast in forums with your downloaded Swastika patch, and your collection inclduing titles featuring these unconstiotutional symbols. The circumstance itself in principal can be legally used against you.

I personally think people on both sides of the law make too much tam-tam about Nazi swastikas being shown in games. It is an unimportant visual feature that neither increases realism and functionality, nor immersion. It simply is not important for the game. and people having suffered under the rule of the swastika, are still living. One must not confront them with the easyminded use of these symbols again.

It's a question of piety - not historic accuratesse. And a game like the SH or IL series has no educational value about the why and how of WW2, so whether swastikas are shown or not adds nothing to the realism at all. You could as well demand to have only recordings of original death cries in game, for reasons of "realism". I think that realism debate over critical symbols in a game almost always is an excuse often made in the same way like a man claims he only buys the Playboy or Penthouse magazine because of the good journalistic quality of the articles in it.


Yes, it does sound rather peculiar :)
However, the german wording is "verfassungsfeindliche Symbole", and "verfassung" = constitution, and "feindlich" = hostile. I suppose it's really "Symbols hostile to the constitution", then, but "unconstitutional" seemed the nearest useful approximation thereof ;)

"Verfassungsfeindliche Symbole" means symbols standing for ideas and content that are hostile to the German constitutional order.

[Nordmann]

*Snip*

That's insane! I'm glad I don't live in such a system, it's far too oppressive for my tastes. I thought my laws were bad enough, but this is taking it to the extreme.

[Gunney]

There they go again... killing off their reputation....

The only reason I still buy anything from UBI, is because they unfortunately make some of the better games....

[Skybird]

That's insane! I'm glad I don't live in such a system, it's far too oppressive for my tastes. I thought my laws were bad enough, but this is taking it to the extreme.

Don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Germany still is one of the most liberal, free countries in the world, and the level of freedoms and the display of tolerance for almost everything even reaches hilarious, sometimes suicidal levels (although manipulative media and EU legislations slowly change that. But that effects England and all of Europe as well).

But there was a time in the past when that was different, and that in recognition of that time and responsibility the careless, easyminded use of according symbols gets forbidden, is understandable. The crimes committed under the Swastika emblem were not of peanut sizes, you know.

[Gunney]

Don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Germany still is one of the most liberal, free countries in the world, and the level of freedoms and the display of tolerance for almost everything even reaches hilarious, sometimes suicidal levels (although manipulative media and EU legislations slowly change that. But that effects England and all of Europe as well).

But there was a time in the past when that was different, and that in recognition of that time and responsibility the careless, easyminded use of according symbols gets forbidden, is understandable. The crimes committed under the Swastika emblem were not of peanut sizes, you know.

No one better to know that than someone who lives in England. The country, particularly London, was bombed by the Nazis almost daily, if not daily....

Yet dispite that, you dont see them outlawing the Swastika, or any other Nazi deplicting media.....

[pythos]

I have to agree. From what I have read of Germany it is VERY nice country to live. Personal freedoms are far more than even the States. This one rule is just one of a few intruding rules, and there is some good intent behind it.

[Gunney]

I don't know - has that been confirmed? I've only see references to one article that said that the game had been recalled, but I don't speak German, so I have no idea if the original article says that it is only the manual that is affected. There are versions of SH5 with a swastika in it, if that's what you mean.
Here is a translated version of that web page(sorry the grammar is off, stupid google translate...

Ubisoft Silent Hunter called back 5 CE
10. March 2010, 20:01 Clock
Ubisoft has it these days certainly not easy. Only the permanent presence in the media copy protection and the permanent online connection that works more or less well, now even a recall. As we confirmed the retail sector, has been recalled by the Collector's Edition of Silent Hunter 5th

As a reason to use the trade was called anticonstitutional symbols. They would be a deal at the games in the Second World War very well known problem. For the German market, the symbols are usually elaborately retouched, but Ubisoft seems to be the version with extensive additional material have not caught them all. According to current information, this concerns only the collector's edition of the new edition of the famous U-boat simulation, the standard variant is allowed to continue to be sold.

[tater]

Personal freedoms are far more than even the States.

This I doubt. Heck, I know it's wrong. The USA is the only country that has separation of church and state, for example as I recall.

Personal freedoms "given to you" by the state are not freedoms at all. Freedom is having the state FORBIDDEN from taking them away from you, ever, since anything granted you my the goodness of the state can equally be taken away. A very, very different thing, indeed.

[Gunney]

Even the Vatican....jk..

[Nordmann]

Personal freedoms "given to you" by the state are not freedoms at all. Freedom is having the state FORBIDDEN from taking them away from you, ever, since anything granted you my the goodness of the state can equally be taken away. A very, very different thing, indeed.

This. Something which Europe would do well to remember.

[Exakt]

This I doubt. Heck, I know it's wrong. The USA is the only country that has separation of church and state, for example as I recall.

Personal freedoms "given to you" by the state are not freedoms at all. Freedom is having the state FORBIDDEN from taking them away from you, ever, since anything granted you my the goodness of the state can equally be taken away. A very, very different thing, indeed.


Rights, Freedoms, Liberties are God-given, not given by State or anybody else. They are unalienable under the constitution. But, ever since the Patriot Act, most of those rights are actually infringed, removed or totally disregarded. And this is happening all throughout the world (Canada, UK, France, etc). Now governments believe that we should give up our rights for security. When this happens, try getting your rights back... not an easy job.

So, if the German collector's edition is now being disabled if you haven't returned your manual, now Ubisoft is going against the constitution (mostly their whole DRM is).

Let me explain:


(1) The home is inviolable.
Having a program that monitores my game is a violation of that.




(2) Searches may be authorized only by a judge or, when time is of the essence, by other authorities designated by the laws, and may be carried out only in the manner therein prescribed.
Said DRM is searching for files on my computer without a proper warrant.




(3) If particular facts justify the suspicion that any person has committed an especially serious crime specifically defined by a law, technical means of acoustical surveillance of any home in which the suspect is supposedly staying may be employed pursuant to judicial order for the purpose of prosecuting the offense, provided that alternative methods of investigating the matter would be disproportionately difficult or unproductive. The authorization shall be for a limited time. The order shall be issued by a panel composed of three judges. When time is of the essence, it may also be issued by a single judge.
Basically, the DRM is a form of Wire-tapping, henceforth illegal without a proper authorization.


Article 10 [Privacy of correspondence, posts and telecommunications]

(1) The privacy of correspondence, posts and telecommunications shall be inviolable.
The internet is a telecommunications means and shall be inviolable under this article.




(2) Restrictions may be ordered only pursuant to a law. If the restriction serves to protect the free democratic basic order or the existence or security of the Federation or of a Land, the law may provide that the person affected shall not be informed of the restriction and that recourse to the courts shall be replaced by a review of the case by agencies and auxiliary agencies appointed by the legislature.
Where do it says that a video game is a threat to the Free Democratic basic order, or security of the Federation or of a Land???


BTW, these Articles were taken from Basic Law of The Federal Republic of Germany. In the version promulgated on 23 May 1949 (first issue of the Federal Law Gazette, dated 23 May 1949), as amended up to and including 20 December 1993.



So, i have just showed you how Ubi's DRM is unconstitutional under the German one, now imagine how it is also illegal in other countries.

[Nisgeis]

Here is a translated version of that web page(sorry the grammar is off, stupid google translate...

Ubisoft Silent Hunter called back 5 CE
10. March 2010, 20:01 Clock
Ubisoft has it these days certainly not easy. Only the permanent presence in the media copy protection and the permanent online connection that works more or less well, now even a recall. As we confirmed the retail sector, has been recalled by the Collector's Edition of Silent Hunter 5th
<SNIP>

Thanks Gunney. I don't see how all those websites managed to translate that into 'DRM is used to lock out gamers'. What travels faster than light? Rumour! It seems the actual situation is that Ubisoft missed a (quiote small) symbol in a printed documnet and offered an optional refund or a credit instead if people wanted to keep the game. Seems OK to me, as far as customer service goes. All the freedom of speech stuff aside, of course.

[Skybird]

This I doubt. Heck, I know it's wrong. The USA is the only country that has separation of church and state, for example as I recall.

Then you need to know it better. Most nations in the West are secular and have the separation of church and state, and germqany does have that, too. And different to the United States we do not have a strong Christian fundamentalist civil lobby trying to bring that secularism down. ;) First amendement to the US constitution should prevent that in the US, too, but it is already violated in many states.

Personal freedoms "given to you" by the state are not freedoms at all. Freedom is having the state FORBIDDEN from taking them away from you, ever, since anything granted you my the goodness of the state can equally be taken away. A very, very different thing, indeed.

http://www.iuscomp.org/gla/statutes/GG.htm

[daft]

Then you need to know it better. Most nations in the West are secular and have the separation of church and state, and germqany does have that, too. And different to the United States we do not have a strong Christian fundamentalist lobby trying to bring that down. ;)



Nor do you have a state leader that asks God to bless your country during official addresses.

[Skybird]

This text is ten years old, but shows some of the complexity of the matter:

http://www.icnl.org/knowledge/ijnl/vol3iss2/art_1.htm

I agree that the ideals of a constitution and the actual practice often are not completely the same. That'S why there are law codes additionally to the constitution. A constitution is menat as a road map for guiding porinciples, it shows the direction at which the voyage should go, the spirit in which things should be done. The detailed implementation of the ideals to that reality is (and must) be done in specified law regulations. This process of forming such laws can become object of corruption. And/or the result of the process leaves to be desired. It'S a non-perfect world we live in. It can be tried to make it better, though.

What decides on the status of a given nation/culture/society is the mean outcome. when you have dozens and hundreds of millions of people in such a saocial group formation, you cannot seriously expect that no errors ever will happen, and that the laws will cover all and every nuance of a situation somebody suddenly finds himself in. what is deciding it is the general outcome, the mean score of justice and freedom being acchieved. And to push that value, that quality score as high as possible,l you maybe even must accept the violation of basic freedoms under special circumstances, for example in order to protect the system that allows these freedoms and rights being expressed and practised. Becasue even in this situation - it is about the mean, the avergae score of justice and freedom that in the end gets acchieved.

And this - there cannot be unlimited freedom. A freedom that has no boundaries, necessarily sooner or later touches upon the freedoms of somebody else. And then both freedoms start to crankle at each other, and the stronger one usually wins - and then defines what freedom is - it's his freedom. A society that tries to implement an idea of unlimited freedom, destroys itself. You can see that very much in the inflationary abuse of the term "tolerance" in europe, where nowaday even that is tolerated that seeks to destroy this tolerant society. A culture is defined not only by what it is and describes itself as, but also by what it is not and does not want to be.

Which means that freedom without the strength (and the will) to defend it, does not mean much and will not last long. The unwillingness to defend oneself in order to save a society where a huge ammount of freedom and tolerance can be found (even if it is not perfect), is decadence. and this european obsession with tolerance: keep in mind that tolerance is something that cannot be practiced by the weak, for the weak are lacking options and strength and thus suffer what they must, and submit to whom is stronger - and being that submissive has othing to do with tolerance. Tolerance means that the strong one passes on his option to use his strength to crush the weaker. That way, freedom can be created - again, by the strong ones, not by the weak ones.

[Gilbou]

Does this mean that you must return the game, or is it a request? Because if it is a request, I would ignore it. It's not as if the political enforcement agency are going to come and dig through your games, checking for illegal iconography, right?

You must not return the game. The materials were the game is stored is your legal property (remember : you buy the media, and a license to use it. The game is never really yours and all you really own is a material copy and license to legally use it).

Ubisoft will recall the games. People can choose to bring it back, refunded or exhanged or not bring it back. They have to do it, but people that don't bring the game back there's nothing they will do. They don't care. They did their part.

They could be forced to invalidate all serial numbers for all games sold before the recall. Legally, you still own your copy of the game, but your license is revoked until you bring back the game (think of it as a proof or purchase) or just don't play the game anymore.

When you buy a game in material form, you bought the media and the physical copy. Taking the physical copy from you is called theft, legally. In order for this not to be theft you either get a replacement copy, or are refunded of the physical media (the license might or might not be refunded according to its terms of use, which must obey the law.. Any contract is considered as law as long it respects the law order which is : laws, and constitution. A contract is considered as a law between those whom sign it. It cannot do anything not allowed by law, and the law itself cannot do anything not allowed by the constitution, and so on).

The physical media is your property. No one can take it without comitting theft, this includes force polices. The license can be revoked it is the choice of Ubisoft (they can do that anytime). The physical copy is either kept, as legally purchased property, refunded or brought back for an exchange for another copy of something of similar value.

[GFC Christian]

Ubisoft will recall the games. People can choose to bring it back, refunded or exhanged or not bring it back. They have to do it, but people that don't bring the game back there's nothing they will do. They don't care. They did their part.

....and that's it ! :|\\

[Hanomag]

Hey did anyone ever answer about the Japanese Rising Sun emblem.. is that verboten in Japan too or we only saved that for poor ole Germanys use of the swastika?

Does that mean if Germany won the war the american star would be banned?

Golly... the shenanigans of politics.. :o

[Kapitanleutnant]

Hey did anyone ever answer about the Japanese Rising Sun emblem.. is that verboten in Japan too or we only saved that for poor ole Germanys use of the swastika?

Does that mean if Germany won the war the american star would be banned?

Golly... the shenanigans of politics.. :o

The Rising Sun is the symbol of Japan. The Stars and Stripes are the symbol of the United States of America. The Swastika is the symbol of the Nazi party. One of these things is not like the others, but I doubt you'll be able to tell which.
I was so sorry to hear about your crippling brain damage. :cry:

[theluckyone17]

The Rising Sun is the symbol of Japan. The Stars and Stripes are the symbol of the United States of America. The Swastika is the symbol of the Nazi party. One of these things is not like the others, but I doubt you'll be able to tell which.
I was so sorry to hear about your crippling brain damage. :cry:

A little harsh there, don't you think? :nope:

Considering it was the Nazi party pushing Germany into the war, it'd be awful easy to make the assumption that the swastika symbolized Germany during WW2, hence the (over)reaction in banning the swastika outright in Germany.

I suppose it'd be like the U.S. Government banning the display of the "Rebel flag". I would be surprised if certain municipalities within the U.S haven't at least tried to ban it, if not succeeded...

Edit: Snipped from the Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Germany#Nazi_Germany):
With the establishment of Nazi regime (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany) in Germany on 30 January 1933, the black-red-gold flag was swiftly scrapped: a ruling on 12 March reintroduced the old black-white-red imperial tricolour and established the flag of the Nazi Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party) as the two legal national flags of Germany.[28] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Germany#cite_note-flag1933-27) In 1935, one year after the death of Reich President (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_Germany_%28Weimar_Republic%29) Paul von Hindenburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_von_Hindenburg) and Hitler's self-elevation to the position of Führer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BChrer), the dual flag arrangement ended with the exclusive use of the Nazi flag as the national flag of Germany. The new flag law[29] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Germany#cite_note-flag1935-28) was announced at the annual party rally in Nuremberg,[30] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Germany#cite_note-29) where Hermann Göring (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_G%C3%B6ring) claimed the old black-white-red flag, while honoured, was the symbol of a bygone era and under threat of being used by "reactionaries".

So assuming that the Nazi flag represents Germany during WW2 would be correct. Making the further guess that Japan might have banned the Rising Sun wouldn't be a stretch, in my opinion. Had Germany managed to occupy the U.S. during WW2, I wouldn't be surprised if the Stars & Stripes had been banned from display.