EA to implement Ubi style DRM system

[Sonarman]

Monkey see, monkey do...Seems EA are to adopt a Ubi style DRM system (http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2010/03/18/ea_follows_ubisoft_will_sell_titles_with_always_on _drm) for all future releases, doesn't worry me too much as they never release anything worth buying anyway!

[Coldcall]

Monkey see, monkey do...Seems EA are to adopt a Ubi style DRM system (http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2010/03/18/ea_follows_ubisoft_will_sell_titles_with_always_on _drm) for all future releases, doesn't worry me too much as they never release anything worth buying anyway!

Unbelievable.

Well, time to start supporting smaller independent developers because the big corps are going to strangle the market.

I liked old Bioware titles when they were not part of EA, but they sure have changed in the last couple years.

[DMB3428]

this is probably going to become a way of life from now on, they cant stop people from stealing the software therefore we all have to pay the price.

[BigBANGtheory]

If it actually worked properly, at least that would be something.

[HansLanda]

hm.. dont mind the DRM as such as long as it is functional in a sense that it does not lock out the paying customers. Perhaps EA can do better job of implementing their version... although I'm not betting on this one.

[Coldcall]

this is probably going to become a way of life from now on, they cant stop people from stealing the software therefore we all have to pay the price.

If they used their brains and werent so goddam cheap they could minimise the piracy by for instance producing a large detailed manual, the likes of which dissapeared since the days of Falcon 4.

How many folks bothered pirating F4 when without the manual it was practically like learning chinese?

So in effect the digitisation/dumbing down of manuals which is down to their cheapness is a major reason getting an illegal copy of a game is more viable today than it use to be.

People who might be tempted to illegally aquire a game like SH5 would be far more inclined to purchase the retail version if it came with a substantial manual.

EA and Ubisoft are just full-o-crap. I'm a free marketeer and certainly no anti-capitalist but these bastards are ruining one of the few pleasures in my life.

[Gammelpreusse]

Man, I am glad my fascination for games is not anymore what it used to be.
Appears it's time to concentrate on more important things in life.

[The Enigma]

hm.. dont mind the DRM as such as long as it is functional in a sense that it does not lock out the paying customers. Perhaps EA can do better job of implementing their version... although I'm not betting on this one.


Well, I'm (edit: I was) a paying customer.
Now I'm no longer a UBI customer.
As a matter of fact, I do feel locked out.

[msxyz]

Ok, it looks like I won't buy the next Dragon Age game, after all... :salute:

Good thing that, between The Witcher 2 and Drakensang, I won't lack my yearly RPG fix :hmmm:

[Coldcall]

Ok, it looks like I won't buy the next Dragon Age game, after all... :salute:

Good thing that, between The Witcher 2 and Drakensang, I won't lack my yearly RPG fix :hmmm:

Fron what Ive heard the DAO expansion Awakenings is not very good anyway, just more Darkspawn to kill.

I thought DAo was okay, but when they started releasing tiny DLC content at $5 a pop i uninstalled and likley wont go back.

[RSColonel_131st]

Exactly as I predicted. I was sure EA had similar ideas to UBI, but until either of the big two made the first test the other would wait.

EA obviously is happy that UBI still has good salesnumbers and now announced what they had in mind for a while. I said that UBI needs to fail in order not to set a precendence for others. Now it has happened.

Activision/Blizzard also had plans to do the same, which you can bet will now be realized.


And once all customers are permantely connected for single player games, you can expect games to be sold for 5USD MONTHLY subscription. You will be paying twice and triple the price to keep playing games. You will have increasingly little control over when and how you can play your game, and you will never have a true "perpetual license" ever again.


Thanks all who supported UBI in this hard decision. I mean, it didn't stop pirates even a week, but that was never really the point, was it?

[goldorak]

this is probably going to become a way of life from now on, they cant stop people from stealing the software therefore we all have to pay the price.


You cannot steal software unless you're picking the boxed product from the retail shelf without paying. To steal is to deprive physically something from someone. Copying a software without authorization is called copyright infrigement. Just saying eh, words are important.

[mookiemookie]

Why is this in the SH5 forum? This is the SH5 forum, not the "DRM systems of various game companies" forum.

[SteamWake]

Why is this in the SH5 forum? This is the SH5 forum, not the "DRM systems of various game companies" forum.

Well in all fairness SH5 was really the point man on this drm scheme so its going to be discussed here like it or not.

It looks like EA is not really paying attention or in their arrogance think they can do it better.

[Nordmann]

Monkey see, monkey do...Seems EA are to adopt a Ubi style DRM system (http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2010/03/18/ea_follows_ubisoft_will_sell_titles_with_always_on _drm) for all future releases, doesn't worry me too much as they never release anything worth buying anyway!

It worries me, because some of the EA titles are worth buying (think Mass Effect), at least as far as I'm concerned.

Honestly, I'm surprised by this. Given the amount of backlash Ubi have received over their OSP, I would have thought that other developers/publishers would have steered well clear of such a scheme, but obviously they have yet to learn their lesson! They will in time though, you can be sure of that.

[Arclight]

Activision is probably next.

Oh no, wait, they were going for the subscription model. Let's see how that turns out for them. :hmmm:

[klmmicro]

It "feels" like these companies are trying to kill interest in their PC gaming titles. Sort of like they want to make it so bad that we all jump on the console gaming bandwagon. That way there is no playing a heavily modded game 5 years down the road (think SH3).

It is just a sad situation all around. I second holding my money away from these over stuffed production companies and focusing on the smaller guy, but those are becoming fewer as the good ones are quickly swooped up by the big guys.

[oscar19681]

Monkey see, monkey do...Seems EA are to adopt a Ubi style DRM system (http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2010/03/18/ea_follows_ubisoft_will_sell_titles_with_always_on _drm) for all future releases, doesn't worry me too much as they never release anything worth buying anyway!

They may go right ahead. I hate EA even more the UBI. I remember buying the godfather 1 for pc. Which was totally boring so they desided to release DLC to fix many of the unpleasant things in the game FOR CONSOLE ONLY. So the pc version was doomed. Then i bought The godfater 2 and after playing through the game once it was allready boring. And then they released DLC FOR CONSOLE ONLY , AGAIN. They never bother to fix the pc version of TGF 2 despite the game being broken. I hate EA!

[Sonarman]

It "feels" like these companies are trying to kill interest in their PC gaming titles. Sort of like they want to make it so bad that we all jump on the console gaming bandwagon. That way there is no playing a heavily modded game 5 years down the road (think SH3).


Very true, and it's not just them it's the retailers too, in some ways I can understand it the PC is a support nightmare and gamers will not pay the same prices as their console cousins. In truth the consoles would be a better gaming platform, bringing us back to the level playing field days of teh Amiga & ST, but only if they added a mouse and keyboard as standard alongside the controllers. I would buy a console but quite frankly I've only seen about 2 console games I would buy. The console manufacturers need to wake up to the fact they have zoned out a whole generation of strategy & sim players. Are keyboards so uncool/technical that people would reject a console based on it's addition. In today's world I don't think so.

[janh]

I find it an important extension of the OSP DRM issue introduced with SHV. And since SHV still suffers from DRM, I am happy that other people post useful information on this topic.

This is pretty much as expected and I agree that it will lead to a pay-per-play scheme for the major publishers games, giving them at least a more steady cash-flow, if not even an increased revenue per player per game. Whether it will affect contents positively I would question. Some companies have a history of listening well to their community, and implementing wishes and improvements -- without a pay-per-play concept. Other didn't listen without it, and what reason would there be that their valuing of customers would suddenly change?

This is really bad, but I am happy that my gaming interests are mostly niche-type areas and products such as detailed and realistic strategy and simulations. Those are luckily mostly supplied by small companies like Matrix, and to my experience such small but realism and detail-dedicated studios perform their developments much better than the bigger ones. They still rely on publishing bug-free quality on the release day, and providing the customer with the feeling to be personally valued.

[Echo76]

Well, I've never bothered to learn backgammon or such, maybe it's time to start learning as I won't go to console bs...

[Conrad von Kaiser]

As much as I hate it I'd prefer EA stick with their "Project $10" then a DRM.

It's mainly aimed at consoles and limiting trade in game sales. You buy the game new you get a code in it that will get you free things, like upcoming map packs and upgrades. If you buy it used you don't get that code and have to buy one for $15. If you don't buy the code then you have to buy the map packs and upgrades by themselves.

Still waiting to see what they do with the new football games coming out
Air for Football $5 (Expires after 20 games)
Away Team Jersey: $2.50
Regulation Helmet: $4 (Will not work with playoff or superbowl games)
Playoff Helmet: $4
Superbowl Helmet: $5

[RSColonel_131st]

I kinda feel the need to freeze my current installed game collection in Carbonite. 12 Titles, all of them DRM free, covering every major genre of interest to me... might never again be possible to say that in the future.

[capthelm]

this trend picks up , to other companies , this might very well backfire and kill the pc gaming industy. :down: sales will be crap and very little titles being made.

[janh]

this trend picks up , to other companies , this might very well backfire and kill the pc gaming industy. :down: sales will be crap and very little titles being made.


Why does everyone think the PC game industry would ever die? Some companies may be bought, go bankrupt or disappear. But as long as there is demand, somebody will jump in the gap and produce something to satisfy that demand. Has always been like that, will always be that easy.

So if Ubisoft Romania, just as an example, would drop subsimulation development, then someone else will take it over -- for sure. And if customers refrain from buying a certain game due to DRM, or other issues, then a competitor will jump his opportunity and develop something competitive without the issue. If there is money to get, there will be someone to come and get it! Just give them the rules...

[Bilge_Rat]

we should start a boycott.

I'm in, I never buy anything from EA anyway...:ping:

[GFC Christian]

As much as I hate it I'd prefer EA stick with their "Project $10" then a DRM.

It's mainly aimed at consoles and limiting trade in game sales. You buy the game new you get a code in it that will get you free things, like upcoming map packs and upgrades. If you buy it used you don't get that code and have to buy one for $15. If you don't buy the code then you have to buy the map packs and upgrades by themselves.

Still waiting to see what they do with the new football games coming out
Air for Football $5 (Expires after 20 games)
Away Team Jersey: $2.50
Regulation Helmet: $4 (Will not work with playoff or superbowl games)
Playoff Helmet: $4
Superbowl Helmet: $5

+1 'cause for me this sucks much more than DRM. SH5 is actually not more than a Demo Version. Full of bugs, only one U-boat type, a campaign until 1943 etc. Once it's stable and Uplay works we have to pay for month, maybe years until we have a full game......

[Ducimus]

Any other sources collaborate?

Only one source and April 1st is right around the corner.

[Tarrasque]

Well it looks like yet another publisher will find the only people playing their games are the pirates as their 'DRM' piece of s*** has caused the legitimate gamers to be unable to use the software THEY bought.

[Yak]

It worries me, because some of the EA titles are worth buying (think Mass Effect), at least as far as I'm concerned.

Honestly, I'm surprised by this. Given the amount of backlash Ubi have received over their OSP, I would have thought that other developers/publishers would have steered well clear of such a scheme, but obviously they have yet to learn their lesson! They will in time though, you can be sure of that.

What backlash?
So long as thousands of 'Wives" and "Girlfriends" are lovingly buying their husbands and boyfriends copies of SH5 and AC2, why should they care about how many online articles and forum rants against their system there is?

And I guess this news means no Medal of Honour: Afghanistan for Little Old Yak... :down:

The phrase 'Infinite Retardation' from Generation Kill springs to mind WRT this whole issue...

[MattDizzle]

Seriously, you talk about a backlash as if the subsim.com community is a representable portion all submarine gamers.

Common mistake, forums are areas where people complain and act is if they matter because other people just as whiny and pathetic as them are there to give them a good old "Right on mate". Electronic Preaching to the Choir. In reality people will still buy EA and Ubisoft games, i will continue to buy them, and online DRM will likely continue into the future.

Dont like it? Play sh3 and piss off from this forum. There is a perfectly good Sh3 section you can put all your complaints into so we dont need to deal with them. Thanks.

[Sailor Steve]

whiny and pathetic
And there you go again, just posting your opinion. Should people not attack you for it again?

[theluckyone17]

http://www.zagura.ro/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/god-kills-kitten-troll.jpg

... and back on topic...

DRM won't kill the gaming industry. Even if the major producers stop producing for PC gaming, they won't kill off the industry. I bet a lot of little independent shops will start up and fill in the empty space.

There's open source, too.

Myself, I won't let DRM bother me. I've got enough older games to keep me satisfied for a while. When I grow bored of them, maybe I'll put some time into helping out with Danger from the Deep.

On the other hand, maybe I'll get back into my hobbies... the outdoor ones. The weather's beautiful :D

[Iron Budokan]

Man, I am glad my fascination for games is not anymore what it used to be.
Appears it's time to concentrate on more important things in life.


^^This.

[Cavell]

What backlash?


This.

Their "backlash" has mostly been in the form of people complaining about the draconian, anti-consumer DRM, yet still going out and buying the game(s). Once they have your money, they couldn't care less about your opinion - unless it affects your future decision to buy their products. Which, they're discovering, it won't. People will just do the same thing all over again - complain about the DRM, yet find themselves unable to resist the lure of the product. And buy the whole, "Yeah, our servers were down, and it was due to rampaging pirates!" schtick.

EA will be a more interesting case study than Ubisoft for this stuff, though. They publish a much broader variety of games on the PC, and if they start seeing sales hits in big-ticket areas - which I doubt they will for the reason stated above - then they might consider yanking it. Ubi can explain away AC2 sales tanking as a fluke, and SH5 as a niche genre that no longer needs to be pursued, if those sales are in fact bad; if EA PC sales went south on series like Command and Conquer, Medal of Honor, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, or especially The Sims, you might see them reconsider.

Edit: Frankly, the aspect of this that really dejects me the most is the one that opponents of the anti-consumer DRM mention fairly frequently but that the proponents have no answer for, namely that when I'm in the sandbox, I won't have the required 'net connection to play any of the games that ship with it. They're really screwing a group of folks who don't deserve to be screwed with this crap.

[Bilge_Rat]

And there you go again, just posting your opinion. Should people not attack you for it again?

Matt may be excessive in his choice of words, but I have seen many posts by anti-DRM zealots that used language just as inflammatory.


There seems to be a double standard here. Posters against DRM can post anything they want and get away with it. Posters with a contrary opinion get attacked personally. Is that the kind of forum we want?

[DMB3428]

You cannot steal software unless you're picking the boxed product from the retail shelf without paying. To steal is to deprive physically something from someone. Copying a software without authorization is called copyright infrigement. Just saying eh, words are important.


news to me, the end result is the same! :down:

[Sonarman]

So if Ubisoft Romania, just as an example, would drop subsimulation development, then someone else will take it over -- for sure..

I'm not so sure... why bother when you can make a cute puppy dog game in a third of the time and sell fifty times more copies. SHIII took a 30 man strong dev team 3 years to put together, only companies like EA & Ubi can afford to do that. The only hope would be indie developers like Norm & Jim at Storm Eagle Jutland and Distand Guns are obvious labors of love and very well crafted but are still a long way graphically and gameplay wise from the Silent Hunter series.

[NefariousKoel]

Why does everyone think the PC game industry would ever die? Some companies may be bought, go bankrupt or disappear. But as long as there is demand, somebody will jump in the gap and produce something to satisfy that demand. Has always been like that, will always be that easy.


Yes, indeed.

If there's demand, and money to be made, someone will fill that hole.

I keep hearing about pirates or DRM becoming the end of PC gaming. Actually, I've been hearing "DOOM!" about PC gaming for at least a decade and it's all been complete bunk.

Console gaming will not kill PC gaming. What do you think those console games are made with? You can see just how little work it takes to market a game for both platforms, especially when some companies tend to blatantly cut control customization for the PC version. The games are already made ON a PC so it's a no-brainer other than how totalitarian they wanna be with DRM.

The only supposedly "bad" end for PC gaming that can come of this is that these DRM-happy big companies lose most of their pc gaming customer base and start caring even less about the last few of their customers. Smaller companies can pick up the slack right where they left off.. with more consideration for the customers and quality control as an added bonus.

[NefariousKoel]

Matt may be excessive in his choice of words, but I have seen many posts by anti-DRM zealots that used language just as inflammatory.


There seems to be a double standard here. Posters against DRM can post anything they want and get away with it. Posters with a contrary opinion get attacked personally. Is that the kind of forum we want?

As a rabid anti-DRM poster, I'm fine with Matt saying what he thinks. Or anyone for that matter.

I also don't think anyone should be crying when confronted with a different opinion. Stating such a controversial stance with such.. clarity.. ,and demanding no debate in return, is just not how things happen. ;)

[Nafod81]

Why is this in the SH5 forum? This is the SH5 forum, not the "DRM systems of various game companies" forum.

It is getting a bit tiring reading all the posts/threads about the DRM. The real shame is the bugs aren't gamebreaking especially with the mods. However I believe DRM + bugs = rants & raves.

We almost need a forum for members who own and actually play the game to discuss it without members who are peeved about the DRM chiming in whenever there is a hint of negativity.

[Ducimus]

Why does everyone think the PC game industry would ever die?

Walk into your local games or electronics shop lately? especially Gamestop or EB Games? I don't even bother anymore. Its all console, and a few token PC gams now.

Most brick and mortar stores are 80% console games now. The PC games are always on some back rack. It's feels like your walking into the XXX section in a video store.

If whats on the self is any indicator, PC games are indeed on their way out, and have been for some time.

INtersting thought is PC games is what has driven the technology in computing. If PC gaming draws down to an irrelevant level as to not be a driving force anymore, i wonder how this will effect other technology areas. From GPU',s to CPU's.

[Catfish]

Hello Mr. Dizzy or ...le, or Trenken ?

" ....Seriously, you talk about a backlash as if the subsim.com community is a representable portion all submarine gamers.
..."
:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

You can read much more harsh critics about this kind of DRM on each and every other simulation site, not only submarine-wise :cool:.

But when it comes to submarine simulators i guess subsim.com is indeed not only a representable portion, but the statistically significant one.
I know you will not bother to answer as you never did, but guess what i don't bother either. Welcome to my ignore list.

Good luck with your pro-DRM crusade,
Catfish

[Cavell]

Walk into your local games or electronics shop lately? especially Gamestop or EB Games? I don't even bother anymore. Its all console, and a few token PC gams now.

Most brick and mortar stores are 80% console games now. The PC games are always on some back rack. It's feels like your walking into the XXX section in a video store.

If whats on the self is any indicator, PC games are indeed on their way out, and have been for some time.

INtersting thought is PC games is what has driven the technology in computing. If PC gaming draws down to an irrelevant level as to not be a driving force anymore, i wonder how this will effect other technology areas. From GPU',s to CPU's.

I'm not so sure I wouldn't attribute a lot of the brick-and-mortar inventory losses to digital distribution, though. I haven't bought a physical copy of a game in...oh, probably four years? Direct2Drive and Steam get all my business.

[Conrad von Kaiser]

I can't bring myself to just download a game. I like having the box and what passes for a manual now'a'days

Plus I'm a collectors edition snob for all the extra bits and baubles lol

[Bilge_Rat]

As a rabid anti-DRM poster, I'm fine with Matt saying what he thinks. Or anyone for that matter.

I also don't think anyone should be crying when confronted with a different opinion. Stating such a controversial stance with such.. clarity.. ,and demanding no debate in return, is just not how things happen. ;)

I have no problem with a good debate, that is what makes a forum interesting. This place would be boring if everyone agreed with each other. :arrgh!:

What I don't like is when posters start to use personal insults. My rule of thumb as always been that if you can't win an argument with insulting someone, you don't have a very good argument..:ping:

[Ducimus]

I'm not so sure I wouldn't attribute a lot of the brick-and-mortar inventory losses to digital distribution, though. I haven't bought a physical copy of a game in...oh, probably four years? Direct2Drive and Steam get all my business.


Call me old fashioned, but..

No Disc, no sale.

I like to OWN my games. I sometimes go back to them. Having them on disc makes them independant of my system, and not vulnerable to being accidently destroyed via a hard drive failure, accidental deletion, what have you.

Digital distribution sucks IMO. I'll take my disc any day of the week.

[Cavell]

Call me old fashioned, but..

No Disc, no sale.

I like to OWN my games. I sometimes go back to them. Having them on disc makes them independant of my system, and not vulnerable to being accidently destroyed via a hard drive failure, accidental deletion, what have you.

Digital distribution sucks IMO. I'll take my disc any day of the week.

That's kind of an odd statement to make, given that Direct2Drive offers unlimited downloads of any game you've ever purchased, as does Steam. :)

I've gone through three different systems, wiped my hard drives countless times, uninstalled them all, etc. They'll be there as long as IGN and Valve are in existence. Same probably couldn't be said of DVDs, which I have a tendency to lose/scratch/set on fire.

[Task Force]

Hmm... dosent really bother me... only EA title ive really liked in recent history was Crysis.

[MattDizzle]

Call me old fashioned, but..

No Disc, no sale.

ducimus, You are old fashioned.

[Sailor Steve]

Matt may be excessive in his choice of words, but I have seen many posts by anti-DRM zealots that used language just as inflammatory.
I agree. I don't worry about anti-DRM attacks, just anti-member attacks.

There seems to be a double standard here. Posters against DRM can post anything they want and get away with it. Posters with a contrary opinion get attacked personally. Is that the kind of forum we want?
My only complaint with MattDizzle is the same one as always - he calls people things like "pathetic" and then complains that he is attacked for just taking an opposite viewpoint. A lot of the anti-DRM people do go over the top with their comments, and do attack people, but most of them don't pretend to be "just expressing an opinion."

I don't care either way, as I consider everyone's opinion to be just that. On the other hand I've said these things to Mr. Dizzle before and he has yet to respond to any of my posts.

[Bilge_Rat]

Sailor Steve, I was not addressing my comments at you personally. I should have put my post in the "Rant" thread.


Have a nice weekend everyone, whether anti-, neutral-or pro-DRM and even the minority that actually plays SH5...:ping:

[Ducimus]

ducimus, You are old fashioned.

Been gaming on PC's since 1986 baby! :rock:

[MattDizzle]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b8/Aces_of_the_Pacific_Coverart.png

This game set my career path in life from way back in 1992. Gimme a break man i'm only 24 :) PC gaming from way back trust me, however i dont fear the change to consoles. I dont need to drop 2 grand into a badass rig every 3 years and if it breaks, someone else has to deal with it.

Lazy youth? perhaps. But i trust steam to always let me have my game, and there is even a built in "Burn to disc" feature complete with PDF manuals. Why fear change? The next generation of consoles reportidly might not even have an optical drive of ANY kind, all games will be pulled from the internet onto an inbuilt hard drive. PC games will be the last bastion of hardcopy games.

[Nafod81]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b8/Aces_of_the_Pacific_Coverart.png

This game set my career path in life from way back in 1992. Gimme a break man i'm only 24 :) PC gaming from way back trust me, however i dont fear the change to consoles. I dont need to drop 2 grand into a badass rig every 3 years and if it breaks, someone else has to deal with it.

Lazy youth? perhaps.


Oh the games of my child-hood. Aces of the Pacific, Aces Over Europe, Aces of the Deep, Master of Orion, Colonization, Pirates, Wing Commander.

Funny the only thing that remains are the submarines. I never purchased a flight sim after Dynamix's that I enjoyed, and haven't had a joystick since 1998.

[Sailor Steve]

Been gaming on PC's since 1986 baby! :rock:
Played Pong in a restaurant in 1974. Flight Sim and Silent Service mid-late '80s. That said, I'm not really a gamer but a history buff who likes the machinery.

[Skullcowboy]

Any other sources collaborate?

Only one source and April 1st is right around the corner.

http://forums.commandandconquer.com/jforum/posts/list/35920.page

Funny thing is EA is claiming the game doesn't HAVE any DRM. At least UBI is upfront about their online SP requirement.

[MattDizzle]

I never purchased a flight sim after Dynamix's that I enjoyed, and haven't had a joystick since 1998.

Do yourself a favor and find a nice cheap set of pedals and stick secondhand and get "Il2 Sturmovic" on steam, the latest version with all the bells, whistles and expensions is something like $10-15 bucks on steam, and runs fine on older systems while looking f-ing amazing on high detail.

If you'll indulge the derail: (trailer for obligitory nazi superweapons expansion, includes everything from biplanes (FIAT 1939 biplane, that british biplane that singlehandedly saved malta) from the thirties to korean war jets (P-80 shooting star, Mig 15), all with superdetailed flight and damage models and full 3d cockpits) The level of detail is amazing, note that they have the Spitfire Vd (i think), with the sand filter for operations in north africa, the detail is really amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O5xKjuhIwE

(can someone tell me how to embed youtube videos?)

[Galanti]

That said, I'm not really a gamer but a history buff who likes the machinery.

So that's what I am! My buddy is always asking me why I haven't 'beat' SH4 yet. I suppose that's the answer. I always feel a bit dirty if I bring back more than 20,000 GRT from a patrol.

[Skullcowboy]

Do yourself a favor and find a nice cheap set of pedals and stick secondhand and get "Il2 Sturmovic" on steam, the latest version with all the bells, whistles and expensions is something like $10-15 bucks on steam, and runs fine on older systems while looking f-ing amazing on high detail.

If you'll indulge the derail: (trailer for obligitory nazi superweapons expansion, includes everything from biplanes (FIAT 1939 biplane, that british biplane that singlehandedly saved malta) from the thirties to korean war jets (P-80 shooting star, Mig 15), all with superdetailed flight and damage models and full 3d cockpits) The level of detail is amazing, note that they have the Spitfire Vd (i think), with the sand filter for operations in north africa, the detail is really amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O5xKjuhIwE

(can someone tell me how to embed youtube videos?)

Amazingly enough, something Matt and I agree on. But if you get the game (IL2 Sturmovik 1946 $9.99) and like it, beware. The cheap pedals and second hand stick might just evolve into a HOTAS system, TrackIR and some expensive pedals. Just ask my wife...

[Sailor Steve]

Someday...

[MattDizzle]

Hotas is overkill, i bought a wireless joystick from some company i've never heard of (Medion, they sponsor f1 but otherwise i dont know anything) on ebay for 15 dollars, i still have it all these years later. I dont have a desk anymore (i use my HDTV with wireless keyboard so i can play silent hunter from my couch :)) so i dont flightsim, but i miss it.

Yaaay for sims that only require the mouse :rock:

[Ducimus]

Since im waxing nostalgia....

How many of ya knew Epson used to make PC's?

This was my first home PC:
http://www.depts.drew.edu/cns/museum/images/equity1.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epson_Equity

[MattDizzle]

My dad worked on electrical systems for some kind of weapons on attack airplanes (the non-fighter planes that the FA/18 replaced... A3D i think) on the CVN's USS Enterprise and USS Independence in the late 70's. He claims that if he told everything he knew they would have to shoot him, all joking aside im pretty sure he did something related to plane-mounted nuke missiles. All i remember about this mythical "A3D" airplane is it stood for "All three dead", as if an engine failure on takeoff happened it would eject the three occupants straight down.... into the water. Anyone know what i'm talking about? Carrier mounted nuke capable plane with 3 occupants that ejected below? I've been curious for years.

So i was practically born with a computer in front of me practically, and military sims followed as soon as the computer had the color display to make it worthwhile.

Janes USNF, the entire maxis "Aces" series, good times.

[Exakt]

Since im waxing nostalgia....

How many of ya knew Epson used to make PC's?

This was my first home PC:
http://www.depts.drew.edu/cns/museum/images/equity1.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epson_Equity

Now, that's bringing some old memories... Had schools here who had a bunch of them... I somewhat miss the good old days of DOS back then too...

[Conrad von Kaiser]

This game set my career path in life from way back in 1992. Gimme a break man i'm only 24 :) PC gaming from way back trust me, however i dont fear the change to consoles. I dont need to drop 2 grand into a badass rig every 3 years and if it breaks, someone else has to deal with it.

Lazy youth? perhaps. But i trust steam to always let me have my game, and there is even a built in "Burn to disc" feature complete with PDF manuals. Why fear change? The next generation of consoles reportidly might not even have an optical drive of ANY kind, all games will be pulled from the internet onto an inbuilt hard drive. PC games will be the last bastion of hardcopy games.

http://www.simhq.com/_air6/images/250px-PC_Box_Cover_RedBaron3D.jpg

Started my online gaming addiction. Heck played that game for 5+ years online and even went on trips to the Rhinebeck Aerodrome to meet the people I gamed with

[MattDizzle]

holy **** i forgot about that game, i remember you could customize your airplane and if you crashed it would show a little story "you were injured and spent 6 months in a hospital" or "You were captured by the enemy".

Little stuff like that in games i miss, imagination goes a long way, and silent hunter could be improved with little picture and text screens like that.

Modifiers, get to work!

[LiveGoat]

Good old Red Baron 3d! Have been thinking of getting Over Flanders Field. but I wonder if it can catch the RB feel.

[Méo]

Thanks all who supported UBI in this hard decision.

I knew someone would come up with this. :nope:

Let me get this straight, freedom works both ways.

They are free to release a product with whatever they want.

You and I are free to buy it or to boycott it.

You don't want it, FINE !!, it's your choice, it's your freedom.

But you got a serious problem if you don't respect other people's decisions.

[Sailor Steve]

...if you crashed it would show a little story "you were injured and spent 6 months in a hospital" or "You were captured by the enemy".

Little stuff like that in games i miss, imagination goes a long way, and silent hunter could be improved with little picture and text screens like that.

Modifiers, get to work!
That is one of the reasons that Aces Of The Deep is so fondly remembered. It was part of that same series, and you didn't have films showing you recieving medals, escaping from the enemy or being hospitalized, but you did get newspaper clippings: "Hometown Hero Gets Iron Cross - Kptl Bruno Asche"; or "Kptl Bruno Asche lost at sea - family mourns lost hero."

It was awesome in its dated way.

[Arclight]

Good gameplay never gets old. :cool:

Graphics may get dated, but that's only the sugary coat that usually wears of eventually anyway.

[janh]

Good gameplay never gets old. :cool:

Graphics may get dated, but that's only the sugary coat that usually wears of eventually anyway.

Oh so true, the good old times. Actually, was AOTD ever modded? Would are the chances that someone could ever get the source for such a little old baby?

[[ISI]tshock9325]

EA just went from worst to... erm?

[Arclight]

tshock9325;1324503']EA just went from worst to... erm?
Activision?
Oh so true, the good old times. Actually, was AOTD ever modded? Would are the chances that someone could ever get the source for such a little old baby?Don't know, pretty rare for a developer to release the source for anything, even a 15 year old game. :-?

[Yak]

Walk into your local games or electronics shop lately? especially Gamestop or EB Games? I don't even bother anymore. Its all console, and a few token PC gams now.

Most brick and mortar stores are 80% console games now. The PC games are always on some back rack. It's feels like your walking into the XXX section in a video store.

If whats on the self is any indicator, PC games are indeed on their way out, and have been for some time.

INtersting thought is PC games is what has driven the technology in computing. If PC gaming draws down to an irrelevant level as to not be a driving force anymore, i wonder how this will effect other technology areas. From GPU',s to CPU's.

While I agree certain doom merchants have been banging that drum for a long time now, the difference, if finally they are right: PC gaming has become a niche market.
Perhaps you haven't noticed, but the vast bulk of games released on PC these days are nothing but shoddy ports of console versions.
Heck, Ubisoft has an openly admitted policy of not releasing PC versions until months after the console release.

I'm not so sure I wouldn't attribute a lot of the brick-and-mortar inventory losses to digital distribution, though. I haven't bought a physical copy of a game in...oh, probably four years? Direct2Drive and Steam get all my business.

Digital distribution is only around 10-15% of sales, and 90%+ of that is concentrated in the US and Western Europe.

The reality is games sell massively better on console than PC: Just look at games like Bioshock where the difference was ten to one.

That's kind of an odd statement to make, given that Direct2Drive offers unlimited downloads of any game you've ever purchased, as does Steam. :)

I've gone through three different systems, wiped my hard drives countless times, uninstalled them all, etc. They'll be there as long as IGN and Valve are in existence. Same probably couldn't be said of DVDs, which I have a tendency to lose/scratch/set on fire.

But then again not everyone has unlimited downloads and a connection to download a 6gb+ file as many times as they want.

Oh, and first sim:
http://www.wingsofhonour.com/redbaron/img_redbaron_box-cover-pc_475x600x24b.jpg

[NefariousKoel]

Walk into your local games or electronics shop lately? especially Gamestop or EB Games? I don't even bother anymore. Its all console, and a few token PC gams now.

Most brick and mortar stores are 80% console games now. The PC games are always on some back rack. It's feels like your walking into the XXX section in a video store.

If whats on the self is any indicator, PC games are indeed on their way out, and have been for some time.


No, it's not an indicator. A vast majority of PC game purchases are done via digital download or ordered via web and shipped directly. From the article someone posted not long ago, it's gone up some since last year.

As an indicator of that, my brother-in-law related a story to me of asking a clerk at a Gamestop a couple months ago where all their PC games were. The clerk looked at him, with wonder and shock, and told him 'everyone buys those online now'.

[Zachstar]

This crap of always on is going to kill the PC game industry. No console has that requirement and neither does steam. Yet they are both relatively effective DRM systems.

Microsoft must be loving this. Their next system already is going to have Natal built in and have some sort of ATI graphics that puts even a 5870 to shame. Who is going to want to spend 700+ on a gaming computer to compete?

[BN77]

EA have virtually pulled out of the PC gaming industry so I am not sure what the point of this is.

[WOD]

Well, if EA will implement a DRM similar to that what UBI did, then it´s the next publisher on my personal list...from which I won´t buy a game anymore. Maybe EA missed the problem, which UBI has with steam now. So I think they have to learn the hard way too. On the other hand, I think, the PC-Game market will die slowly. I don´t hope so but the signs are the fact of reality.

[DeadlyWolf]

Regarding the last "PC gaming in diyng!11!!" rants I'd like to remind you:

1) As you can see here, saying PC games are console-ports only is a plain bs: http://adrianwerner.wordpress.com/games-of-2010/
2) DD is huge and if I'm not wrong platforms like Steam do not disclose the numeber of sales. And as Nefarious wrote most of the purchases come through online-shops.
3) Recently Battlefield Bad Company 2 (on its release) had more people playing the PC version of the game than the 360 or PS3 editions. (see news about it)

[Ragtag]

Well, EA's DRM didn't last long either. Command & Conquer has been...well, you know the banned word ;)

[UnSalted]

Ok, it looks like I won't buy the next Dragon Age game, after all... :salute:

Good thing that, between The Witcher 2 and Drakensang, I won't lack my yearly RPG fix :hmmm:

If a really good English speaking modding community ever develops for the Drakensang games it will do wonders for the genre.

It's either that or I have to learn German to read their Boards. :)

[Galanti]

This crap of always on is going to kill the PC game industry. No console has that requirement and neither does steam. Yet they are both relatively effective DRM systems.

Microsoft must be loving this. Their next system already is going to have Natal built in and have some sort of ATI graphics that puts even a 5870 to shame. Who is going to want to spend 700+ on a gaming computer to compete?

Consoles are never going to appeal to the harcore sim crowd until they start to offer support for hundreds of keystroke commands and mods. Unless they ship flawless out of the box.

Personally, there aren't too many console games out there I'd be interested in. That's not to say there aren't some incredible ones.

[Nordmann]

Consoles are never going to appeal to the harcore sim crowd until they start to offer support for hundreds of keystroke commands and mods. Unless they ship flawless out of the box.

Personally, there aren't too many console games out there I'd be interested in. That's not to say there aren't some incredible ones.

Not to mention the limited abilities of these consoles, which are years behind PCs hardware wise. Just look at any side by side comparison of a PC and a console game, the console game looks outdated.

Imagine a sim like SH5 on a console, it barely runs on some people's computers!

[msxyz]

Big companies pulling out the PC space is not bad news.

Most of the great games of these last years have come from second tier european publishers (ie Jowood) or indie developers.

It's incredible how these games, despite much less resources available and a looser development process, ends up with fewer bugs and better support!

[vanjast]

Further emphasising this...
EA and it also looks like UBI.. seem to be driven by economic forces (accountants and shareholders) which/who avariably want the best bang for their buck. This is typical of the technonolgy industry, where the 'financials' will scre.w it up completely.. opening a market for another generation of decent developers. These developers will hold their own for a while until succoming to the 'accountants' again.

Thankfully so far, Oleg and 1C are a break from this norm (so far) with the IL2 series and upcoming BoB - But there is still a opening in the sea warfare game market for someone like Oleg/1C, to bring out a 'working' game.


I think the ideal time to buy is in the early stages, for example SH3, and any follow on's sh4, sh5 are just degrades of the original.


:D

[janh]

BoB? Please tell me that there is going to be a new Battle of Britain/Aces/Air War over Europe type title with the realism and detail of IL2 coming? That would be awesome news.

[Catfish]

Let's think the unthinkable.

A company is not dedicated to pure greed and making money, but to just pay their employees, maybe better next year, and NOT sell shares !
Just keep being a vital and healthy small company, with good ideas, and a concept of improving a special kind of software.

Just go on, build slowly up from a vital and healthy basis substance, maybe hire one or two more new idealistic employees with fresh ideas a year, if at all.
Make a million or two in your whole life, rather than go for 4 millions a year for me as the manager.

OK, now i'm a 65-year-old chief of such a company, i have two houses , several cars, one yacht, a few kids, and a nice dedicated company. What the hell do i need some 20 millions more ? Do i think i can take the money into my grave ? Reputation ?!
Selling shares to grow BIG and become dependent on *******ing share holders or THEIR interests ? Why. THE. *******. ??!

Ah, i hear the people shout "communism", "socialism" blah burp bloop.
But it isnt't. It just is good old capitalism remaining reasonable, not gone wild, not locust cap., and to hell with share holders.

Only an idea,
Catfish

[Nordmann]

Big companies pulling out the PC space is not bad news.

Most of the great games of these last years have come from second tier european publishers (ie Jowood) or indie developers.

It's incredible how these games, despite much less resources available and a looser development process, ends up with fewer bugs and better support!

Agreed. Some of the best games I own are not made by mainstream developers/publishers. Who cares if 'Big Moneybags Ltd' moves out of the PC market? At least they won't be buying the small development teams, who actually make decent games, instead of the same old carbon copy rubbish!

In any case, PC gaming is not dead, nowhere close. People have been making such claims for the past 10 years, and I have yet to see it happen. Yes, perhaps there are not as many good games as there used to be, but then again, that greatly depends on your idea of 'good'.

Consoles have no where near the same versatility, nor can they provide the same power; console games are generally for the casual gamer, and the design shows this to be the case. I should know, I used to be a console owner (NES, SNES, N-64, PS, PS2), and I would go through a game a week. That is one of the reasons I made the switch to PC games, not only do they look and play better, they have a lot more longevity.

I don't believe PC gaming will die, perhaps it will change, perhaps it will become more focused, but there's plenty of room for other companies to move in, if the current market leaders move out.

[Arclight]

Let's think the unthinkable.

A company is not dedicated to pure greed and making money, but to just pay their employees, maybe better next year, and NOT sell shares !
Just keep being a vital and healthy small company, with good ideas, and a concept of improving a special kind of software.

Just go on, build slowly up from a vital and healthy basis substance, maybe hire one or two more new idealistic employees with fresh ideas a year, if at all.
Make a million or two in your whole life, rather than go for 4 millions a year for me as the manager.

OK, now i'm a 65-year-old chief of such a company, i have two houses , several cars, one yacht, a few kids, and a nice dedicated company. What the hell do i need some 20 millions more ? Do i think i can take the money into my grave ? Reputation ?!
Selling shares to grow BIG and become dependent on *******ing share holders or THEIR interests ? Why. THE. *******. ??!

Ah, i hear the people shout "communism", "socialism" blah burp bloop.
But it isnt't. It just is good old capitalism remaining reasonable, not gone wild, not locust cap., and to hell with share holders.

Only an idea,
Catfish
I like what you're saying... is there room for one more on that soapbox? No wait, I'll just follow you around. :lol: