Task force sighted?

[Kumando]

I ran into a convoy on the patrol grid of the first mission an my watch officer keeps reporting task force, is it a bug?

[BlackSpot]

Nope. If you use the keyboard mod and press "control V" The crew will give you a bearing and distance to target.

[Dowly]

Nope. If you use the keyboard mod and press "control V" The crew will give you a bearing and distance to target.

Yes, but the crew reports TASK FORCE when the player is intercepting CONVOY. :03:

[BlackSpot]

Oops, you out weasel-ed me there Dowly :oops:

[tater]

Assuming it is unchanged from SH4, the game calls any groups a ships a "task force" if the lead ship is a warship. If the lead ship is a merchant type, then it calls it a convoy.

So 100 merchants where the lead ship in the group is a DE is a "task force" and 100 battleships with a single oiler marked in the mission file as the leader would be a "convoy."

It's a sign of sloppy campaign work.

[Kumando]

Assuming it is unchanged from SH4, the game calls any groups a ships a "task force" if the lead ship is a warship. If the lead ship is a merchant type, then it calls it a convoy.

So 100 merchants where the lead ship in the group is a DE is a "task force" and 100 battleships with a single oiler marked in the mission file as the leader would be a "convoy."

It's a sign of sloppy campaign work.

Indeed there is a destroyer leading it.

[SteamWake]

Heh I had a call of task force sighted... I rush to the bridge and map to see.

It was two small merchants :haha: so I sank them both and slapped around my WO for a while.

[Dowly]

Assuming it is unchanged from SH4, the game calls any groups a ships a "task force" if the lead ship is a warship. If the lead ship is a merchant type, then it calls it a convoy.

So 100 merchants where the lead ship in the group is a DE is a "task force" and 100 battleships with a single oiler marked in the mission file as the leader would be a "convoy."

It's a sign of sloppy campaign work.

My last convoy which was unescorted was called 'task force' by the crew, so. :hmmm:

[Kumando]

Another thing that bugs me the convoy is heading at 10kts thats way fast!!! In Sh3 they always moved at 6,7 kts, is it normal?

[Ablemaster]

Yeh just a simple ship sighted would do i think, well at least hes right then, :)

[SteamWake]

Another thing that bugs me the convoy is heading at 10kts thats way fast!!! In Sh3 they always moved at 6,7 kts, is it normal?

Convoys tended to travel as fast as the slowest boat could go. Taskforces often traveled at speeds of 12 knots or greater.

[Kumando]

Convoys tended to travel as fast as the slowest boat could go. Taskforces often traveled at speeds of 12 knots or greater.

Yeah but in Sh3 never saw a convoy travel so fast.

[remowilliams]

My last convoy which was unescorted was called 'task force' by the crew, so. :hmmm:

I've had that happen numerous times. Unless they were referring to the tons of deck guns on all those armed merchants... :DL

[tater]

The "lead" ship needs only to have a code that it is a warship (0-20 in SH4).

This would include "aux cruisers" (type 13). Is there a chance there may have been a q-ship in there?

Perhaps sh5 also deals with certain armed merchants as warship types? This is possible as the merchant and warship AI behave differently, even in sh4.

[Dowly]

The "lead" ship needs only to have a code that it is a warship (0-20 in SH4).

This would include "aux cruisers" (type 13). Is there a chance there may have been a q-ship in there?

Perhaps sh5 also deals with certain armed merchants as warship types? This is possible as the merchant and warship AI behave differently, even in sh4.

Yah, there were armed merchants in the convoy, so must've been that. :yep:

[tater]

Yah, there were armed merchants in the convoy, so must've been that. :yep:

Only if they have armed merchies in sh5 that are given the type of 13 (or a new type) though. Sticking a gun on a merchant doesn't make it a warship as far as the game is concerned, that's determined by the "type" number.

IN fact, you can put some weapons on warships, and they won't use them if the type is wrong. Only types 0-4 will use depth charges, for example. Was an issue trying to make jap merchants semi-randomly dump DCs over the side as they were wont to do in RL. Or the fact that jap cruisers and even battleships (Musashi, for example) had DC racks---and used them!.

Wonder what the names file looks like in the Roster folder in sh5...

[bigboywooly]

Yah, there were armed merchants in the convoy, so must've been that. :yep:

Not so sure as had that from first patrol
Even when units unarmed

@ Tater

Yes the convoys do show escorts as lead units

[HX_]
Role=1
Doctrine=0
EscortPosition=1
EscortSpacing=900.000000
ConvoyRowSpacing=900.000000
ConvoyColSpacing=900.000000
Columns=0
IsWolfPack=false

[HX_.EscortUnit 1]
Type=20
CountryName=British
ExternalCargo=-1
InternalCargo=-1
CrewRating=2
Weapons=0
Sensors=0
Tactics=0
Camouflage=0
Required=false
No=1
SpawnProbability=20
GroupLinkId=1

But not sure if thats the way the ME does it now

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h22/bigboywooly/mission%20editor/MEConvoy7a.jpg

In SH3\4 you created a group from one unit and added the rest - as you know - so making the lead unit a merc was simple
As the SH5 way of adding units is as the pic above it may auto put escorts first as they all seem to be in the GroupTypeDefs

[HX_.EscortUnit 1]
Type=20
CountryName=British
ExternalCargo=-1
InternalCargo=-1
CrewRating=2
Weapons=0
Sensors=0
Tactics=0
Camouflage=0
Required=false
No=1
SpawnProbability=20
GroupLinkId=1

[HX_.EscortUnit 2]
Type=11
CountryName=British
ExternalCargo=-1
InternalCargo=-1
CrewRating=2
Weapons=0
Sensors=0
Tactics=0
Camouflage=0
Required=false
No=1
SpawnProbability=20
GroupLinkId=1

[HX_.EscortUnit 3]
Type=10
CountryName=British
ExternalCargo=-1
InternalCargo=-1
CrewRating=2
Weapons=0
Sensors=0
Tactics=0
Camouflage=0
Required=false
No=1
SpawnProbability=20
GroupLinkId=1

[HX_.EscortUnit 4]
Type=4
CountryName=British
ExternalCargo=-1
InternalCargo=-1
CrewRating=2
Weapons=0
Sensors=0
Tactics=0
Camouflage=0
Required=false
No=3
SpawnProbability=100
GroupLinkId=0

[HX_.EscortUnit 5]
Type=4
CountryName=British
ExternalCargo=-1
InternalCargo=-1
CrewRating=2
Weapons=0
Sensors=0
Tactics=0
Camouflage=0
Required=false
No=4
SpawnProbability=50
GroupLinkId=0

[HX_.EscortUnit 6]
Type=4
CountryName=British
ExternalCargo=-1
InternalCargo=-1
CrewRating=2
Weapons=0
Sensors=0
Tactics=0
Camouflage=0
Required=false
No=3
SpawnProbability=50
GroupLinkId=0

[HX_.EscortUnit 7]
Type=4
CountryName=British
ExternalCargo=-1
InternalCargo=-1
CrewRating=2
Weapons=0
Sensors=0
Tactics=0
Camouflage=0
Required=false
No=5
SpawnProbability=20
GroupLinkId=0

[HX_.EscortUnit 8]
Type=4
CountryName=British
ExternalCargo=-1
InternalCargo=-1
CrewRating=2
Weapons=0
Sensors=0
Tactics=0
Camouflage=0
Required=false
No=5
SpawnProbability=20
GroupLinkId=0

[HX_.EscortUnit 9]
Type=4
CountryName=British
ExternalCargo=-1
InternalCargo=-1
CrewRating=2
Weapons=0
Sensors=0
Tactics=0
Camouflage=0
Required=false
No=1
SpawnProbability=10
GroupLinkId=0

[HX_.EscortUnit 10]
Type=11
Class=BBNewYork
CountryName=American
ExternalCargo=-1
InternalCargo=-1
CrewRating=2
Weapons=0
Sensors=0
Tactics=0
Camouflage=0
Required=false
No=1
SpawnProbability=5
GroupLinkId=0

[HX_.ConvoyUnit 1]
Type=102
CountryName=British
ExternalCargo=-1
InternalCargo=-1
CrewRating=2
Weapons=0
Sensors=0
Tactics=0
Camouflage=0
Required=false
No=10
SpawnProbability=100
GroupLinkId=0

Will need to add a new group and pick mercs from start and then escorts to se if they default to top

[tater]

Group behavior in sh4 was very different based on if it was a TF or convoy, too.

Wow, the mission files look interesting. They clearly messed with the unit types, since 20 in sh4 is a super battleship as I recall. I experimented with this a long time ago in sh4 though, and they'd certainly call out TF if the lead ship was any warship. I was looking at how they reacted to attacks (scattering vs moving at flank and constant helming). It also bears on how long (or did in sh4) the escorts will hang around and hunt you after their charges have moved off. With TFs they will stick around longer to hold you down (which in itself was somewhat odd, since a real TF at speed can easily simply run away from a sub, even surfaced---in some sense holding the boat down makes more sense for slow convoys to get they far enough away that an end-aro0und is less likely). But I digress :)

I see what you mean with the editor.

If they were being smart, they forgot that the game uses that lead unit to make the TF/convoy distinction.

It might be possible to fix by editing the order in the text file (there are things possible there not allowed in the mission editor). Like SH4 text campaign edits, you'd have to do that LAST because any saves of that mission layer by the editor would overwrite the manual changes.

[bigboywooly]

Group behavior in sh4 was very different based on if it was a TF or convoy, too.

Wow, the mission files look interesting. They clearly messed with the unit types, since 20 in sh4 is a super battleship as I recall. I experimented with this a long time ago in sh4 though, and they'd certainly call out TF if the lead ship was any warship. I was looking at how they reacted to attacks (scattering vs moving at flank and constant helming). It also bears on how long (or did in sh4) the escorts will hang around and hunt you after their charges have moved off. With TFs they will stick around longer to hold you down (which in itself was somewhat odd, since a real TF at speed can easily simply run away from a sub, even surfaced---in some sense holding the boat down makes more sense for slow convoys to get they far enough away that an end-aro0und is less likely). But I digress :)

I see what you mean with the editor.

If they were being smart, they forgot that the game uses that lead unit to make the TF/convoy distinction.

It might be possible to fix by editing the order in the text file (there are things possible there not allowed in the mission editor). Like SH4 text campaign edits, you'd have to do that LAST because any saves of that mission layer by the editor would overwrite the manual changes.

No I think the unit types are the same

;Warships
Type0=Patrol Craft
Type1=Corvette
Type2=Frigate
Type3=Destroyer Escort
Type4=Destroyer
Type5=Minesweeper
Type6=Light Cruiser
Type7=Heavy Cruiser
Type8=Escort Carrier
Type9=Fleet Carrier
Type10=Battlecruiser
Type11=Battleship
Type12=Minelayer
Type13=Auxiliary Cruiser
Type14=Special OPS Boat
Type15=Landing Craft
Type16=Elite Patrol Craft
Type17=Elite Destroyer escort
Type18=Elite Escort Carrier
Type19=Super Fleet carrier
Type20=Super Battleship

ClassName=BBHMSDukeOfYork
UnitType=20

:roll: Super battleship
Sigh
Looks like will be changing some of those designations

Will write a new group now adding mercs first and see how game lays it out

EDIT

Removed all escorts from convoy SG1 in mission ed and saved
Lead unit shows as a merc
Added 1 escort back in
Lead unit shows as that escort

So by default warships get added to the front of the grouping so will always show as a TF