What do you think about the destroyer AI?

[oscar19681]

I just started the war supplies patrol in Happy times. And only once i have been DC,d by detroyers and this was on my first mission after the tutorial. After that the destoryeres never really bothered to find me. I had many situations where i attacked a well protected convoy and when the eels started hitting the enemy hulls the detroyers sometimes to and sometimes dont come looking for me. If they do come looking for me they are way off target and 9 out of 10 times they dont even bother dropping depth charges. I can stay at periscope depth without silent running without ever getting caught. On one occasion is attacked on the surface at night and fired the torps and dove away. The destroyers came looking but it was just wat to east to get rid of them. What are your experiences? Is the AI this bad?

[Nisgeis]

The AI shouldn't always know where you are. If they don't know where you are, they won't drop DCs. What would you like them to do? It's a big ocean :DL.

EDIT: One thing they could do is to detach a couple of destroyers for sweeping, and try to keep you down.

[SteamWake]

From what I have seen of their abilitys so far... and admittedly thats not much... there not very good.

I saw a pair of DD's firing rounds of machine gun ammo into the water once :haha:

Wasent even close to where I was and I was submerged. No idea what the heck they were doing.

I have yet to be depth charged. In fact the only 'deaths' I have is from running into other ships / land at high TC. :88)

[Nisgeis]

They can now fire machine guns at periscopes, where before they couldn't. If they are firing at the water, I think it's because they thought they saw a contact there. This implies DDs can pickup false contacts. It's not all about you anymore, as there are AI subs to deal with too. Death by TC is quite annoying, especially when you can't get the backspace key to respond...

[Bilge_Rat]

From what I have seen so far, it is not bad, when they detect you they will attack.

The issue from what I can see so far is that their passive/active sonar detection range is a bit on the weak side. This will have to be tweaked when we have a better idea of how it works. Ducimus has already done some work in this area.

SH5 is supposed to have special scripts governing AI reaction. Has anyone seen this?

Has anyone seen AI escorts firing on each other? I remember this used to be an issue in SH3.

[oscar19681]

I guess i,m just longing for some das boot moments though. I mean it gets kind of boring getting away with it every single time. I could provoke them offcourse but that isnt realisic.

[Nisgeis]

SH5 is supposed to have special scripts governing AI reaction. Has anyone seen this?

Yes.

I guess i,m just longing for some das boot moments though. I mean it gets kind of boring getting away with it every single time. I could provoke them offcourse but that isnt realisic.

Well, the U-boats best shot was when they were undetected. If they got detected before they attacked, the convoy would turn away and it would scupper their plans - this happens in game now and is a huge improvement! It's also been written by sub commanders that the best way to get away was to strike first and cause confusion in the convoy and slip away whilst they were in a mess. It was when they weren't the first to strike that things got hot.

I know what you mean about the 'Das Boot' moments, but sadly my experience of DCs in SH3 and SH4 stock was that they either tickled you, or destroyed you and there wasn't much in between.

[SabreHawk]

I dont know yet, but if they aint any better than the air forces the British are in real trouble.
All up and down the east coast I sailed for four days, and we spotted aircraft at least three times each day and they either didnt see us, or were too chicken to come down and take us on. Several flew straight overhead and yet flew on without firing a shot or coming in for a closer look.

[Bilge_Rat]

Yes.






care to provide some details? I'm curious. :ping:

[Ducimus]

I guess i,m just longing for some das boot moments though. I mean it gets kind of boring getting away with it every single time. I could provoke them offcourse but that isnt realisic.

Try this (http://www.filefront.com/15776267/REL-AI-Detection-Tweaks.7z/). If thats too much, then try the slightly kinder version here. (http://www.filefront.com/15816723/WIP-RUB-AI-Sensor-Tweaks.7z/)

[Schultzy]

[Excuse the interruption] Totally OT: but I clicked the link in your sig Ducimus. Excellent, that guy reminds me of Charlie Brooker, only slightly less acerbic. (OK a lot less) Very nice vid. :up:

[/Interruption ends]

[Nisgeis]

care to provide some details? I'm curious. :ping:

*** POTENTIAL SPOILER! DO NOT READ IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE AI! ***

There is AI code for operation plaster, pineapple, raspberry and creep attacks. I haven't checked to see if it all functions as it should, but I'm looking at it. I want to get ships to slowdown or stop to assess damage (I've got them to stop, but making them start up again will need some thought). Also, looking to see if I can do any realistic AI ASW, so they act intelligently, rather than relying on boosting their sensors.

[Ducimus]

>>rather than relying on boosting their sensors.

That would be ideal. My way of making the ai more "intelligent" is old school and needs to go the way of the dinosaurs.

[oscar19681]

The destroyers also seem to reluctant to ping me even though they are passing over me direcly. I dont really want to boost there sensors because i,m affraid that would unbalance the realism. I just want them to behave as much as possible in real life. One more thing i noticed is that when my scope is spotted my merchents the destoyers do check it out and sometimes they dont. And if they do they dont charge to my scope like in sh-3 but they do so at 2 knots or so.

[Task Force]

Never was attacked by a DD, sailed right next to them and waved HI.:shifty:

[Ducimus]

The destroyers also seem to reluctant to ping me even though they are passing over me direcly.

Two leading reasons for that are:

a.) Thermal layers are active when they shouldn't be.

b.) First two active sonars only have a 100 degree max elevation. That means they loose you at much shallower depths.


I dont really want to boost there sensors because i,m affraid that would unbalance the realism.

How do you define realism? By god this is the "Atlantik!" Das boot das boot! No wussy Jap ASW here! Deeper Chief! Deeper god dammit! Yes Deeper still My god, 280 meters and she's still in one piece! Quick, bring in some timbers for shoring!

Das boot experience is what's wanted right?


I just want them to behave as much as possible in real life


If your looking for exacting real life behavior, that might be awhile. Nigesis may be able to get you there. In the meantime, you got the "close enough" option.

[VVerevvolf]

Ambivalent..
I found a single merchant off the English east coast, decided to save my torps and attacked it with my 88. That guy must have radioed for help, because after staying afloat (my mistake..) and watching the ship slowly sink, I heard a salvo of artillery. The next thing I knew tons of damage reports came in and before I could finish crash dive, I was dead. :hmmm:
External cam revealed a DD ~9km away firing full barrages with all his artillery at my position.
Sinking some ships in the middle of a 50 ship convoy (I didn't bother to count, there were dozens of hydrophone contacts and ships from horizon to horizon) however didn't bother the escorts too much. They eventually came looking after the 4th ship sank, but I got away easily. However, that may be related to the early war, 1939. In later campaigns, you also get attacked by airplanes, so I guess the DDs might be harder later on?
On the other hand, I tried to sneak into an enemy harbour, was spotted by a DD, he radioed 3 other DDs in and they kept looking for me until they found me. Ok, wasn't too hard as the water was only ~15m deep, but hey, they got me :dead:

[seaniam81]

The DD AI needs some work. Last night I took fired some torpedos at a hunter killer group. The turned out of the way. Fired their guns at my scope then once i started my dive to go deep they returned to there original course and continued on their merry way without even a zig. :damn:

They totally had me dead to rights.

[Nafod81]

Usually they scatter and failing to locate me depth charge random space. Unfortuantely they sometimes lock onto my course changes offset by a few kilometers, which is fine provided there is a landmass nearby. Of course if this lock is a mere few meters it's trouble.

[oscar19681]

I attacked a tanker today and it seems like he radio,s for help. So there is an escort about 4000 meters out but i am able to finish of the tanker with me deck-gun. The destoryer fires some shells at me but they miss. I deside to crash dive but go to peri depth to see what he does and the destoyer just happily keeps 2 to 4 knots or so. He doesnt even come to my KNOWN position!!. I understand its 1940 and i dont get the das boot moments all the time. But this is just stupid! Its starting to get boring sinking ships because nor the royal airforce or the royal navy try there best to stop me doing so. Even if the odds are in there own favor!

[Galanti]

I attacked a tanker today and it seems like he radio,s for help. So there is an escort about 4000 meters out but i am able to finish of the tanker with me deck-gun.

I've had this happen too. I'm starting to wonder if destroyers actually get spawned at a certain radius when a ship calls for help. That would be pretty lame and predictable.

[bigboywooly]

Have been pinged many times
Even DCd
But they are also stoopid
Had 4 sailing in a box formation so positioned myself inbetween the 2 columns
Sank the lead of each with stern and bow then the second with the bow
Then had to move position to hit the rear column second ship with the bow
NOT ONCE did they alter from course or speed
Result 4 sunk DDs

Sometimes in a convoy they wont react to sinkings
Others they will try to find you - hence the DCings

Maybe as a result of crew experience but some are so dumb

[daemonofdecay]

EDIT: One thing they could do is to detach a couple of destroyers for sweeping, and try to keep you down.

This is a big point. I launched a very close attack on a convoy and made my escape. I had to dive deep when a destroyer sailed kinda close, but it only dropped about 4 charges during a single pass before going back to the convoy.

[pcelt]

There is one very bizarre bit of AI or script which needs to be overhauled/eradicated
I have experienced this twice and several others have said im threads they have witnessed the same thing----this is where a single DD just reflects all your movements for huge distances-performing all the same manoevres however odd you decide to make them but never approaching or attacking. The last one who mirrored my movement through the English Channel kept at a distance of 10K and moved continuously at 14 Knots ---if I slowed the DD simply moved to and fro at 14 knots maintaining its station
On the advice of another victim of this bizarre behaviour I eventually shook him off by sailing past the Scilly Isles at a distance which caused the shadowing DD to crash into the island and become wrecked.
This is really a big immersion-killer and whether if it is AI or a script it needs urgent and decisive attention.