View Full Version : SH5 overtakes Assasins Creed 2 in Steam Charts!!!
Sonarman
03-16-10, 05:03 AM
An interesting article (http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/bestselling-pc-download-game-of-the-week-battlefield-bad-company-2-1921899.html) from the UK's "Independent" newspaper, although I had to laugh a bit at this choice morsel...."Silent Hunter 5, on the other hand, is likely to fare better since it has an established following who are more willing to put up with the DRM's requirements"
Juliano
03-16-10, 06:12 AM
yeah....
so much for a "niche market" statement I guess
Nordmann
03-16-10, 06:14 AM
"Silent Hunter 5, on the other hand, is likely to fare better since it has an established following who are more willing to put up with the DRM's requirements"
More fool them, that's all I can say. What's next, a pay to play subscription?
yeah....
so much for a "niche market" statement I guess
AC2's first week's sales for PS3/Xbox360 = 1.6+ million
Yes, it's still a niche market for SH5. Wasn't SH4's sale figures something like 200-300k after few months from release? :O:
Sonarman
03-16-10, 06:50 AM
. Wasn't SH4's sale figures something like 200-300k after few months from release? :O:
Yes I think you are right, though SH4 apparently only sold 50K copies in the US, no wonder we are returning to the Atlantic theatre. Looks like the bulk of the sales for the game are definitely in Europe.
Delareon
03-16-10, 07:32 AM
."Silent Hunter 5, on the other hand, is likely to fare better since it has an established following who are more willing to put up with the DRM's requirements"
Depends, this can mean 2 things: The Silent Hunter Series has a bigger community or they have a less organized "i call that DRM **** but buy the game anyway" - community.
I think thats a sad statistic from a sub simmer point of view.
DarkFish
03-16-10, 07:36 AM
[...] especially as the submarine sim has a compelling online multiplayer component [...]oh yeah, SH5 is a real multiplayer game yeah:doh:
I have never played any of the SH series in multiplayer mode and I think I'm hardly the only one.
Coldcall
03-16-10, 08:10 AM
There is a sad truth to this which is that us sub fanatics will probably put up with the DRm crap from Ubisoft as there is no other major sub sim on the market.
Casual gamers who are into AC type games can probably get their particular fix from another game on the market so its easier for them to forgo a Ubi purchase.
Also i think the DRm problems now have filtered into the wider gaming press and Ubi are paying the price with more of the casual market.
Good thing. It will take the shareholders to start getting annoyed and they'll drop the DRm.
Unfortunately we have been the guinea pigs in this experiment by the wankers at Ubisoft. Their CEo really is the biggest arse in game development today. He tried to blackball a games magazine which was giving Ubi poor ratings. He's on record saying that when a game doesnt sell well its because they did not promote it well enough. Demonstrates that he thinks quality is an unnecessary ingredient for making a good game.
oh yeah, SH5 is a real multiplayer game yeah:doh:
I have never played any of the SH series in multiplayer mode and I think I'm hardly the only one.
Just imagine what a fun multiplayer it could have been if they made the destroyers driveable with droppable depth charges. All by a simple UI with sonar.
AVGWarhawk
03-16-10, 08:45 AM
AC2's first week's sales for PS3/Xbox360 = 1.6+ million
Yes, it's still a niche market for SH5. Wasn't SH4's sale figures something like 200-300k after few months from release? :O:
Yeah man, me and my girls play Assassin Creed on the PS3! :rock: Great game!
Well maybe it overtook AC2 in steam but most people buy a boxed version anyway. Check those sales out.
STILL it's good news for no DRM in future as I'm sure Ubisoft is much more worried about AC2 sales than SH5 ones.
Coldcall
03-16-10, 09:08 AM
Well maybe it overtook AC2 in steam but most people buy a boxed version anyway. Check those sales out.
STILL it's good news for no DRM in future as I'm sure Ubisoft is much more worried about AC2 sales than SH5 ones.
exactly, Ubisoft could not care less about Sh5 fans reaction to DRM. However if AC 2 and the upcoming Settlers 7 do poorly realted to the DRm then hopefully SH5 will be released from DRM along with the other titles.
Juliano
03-16-10, 09:11 AM
Well maybe it overtook AC2 in steam but most people buy a boxed version anyway. Check those sales out.
STILL it's good news for no DRM in future as I'm sure Ubisoft is much more worried about AC2 sales than SH5 ones.
Hope this will happen soon :sunny:
kylania
03-16-10, 09:34 AM
Well maybe it overtook AC2 in steam but most people buy a boxed version anyway. Check those sales out.
STILL it's good news for no DRM in future as I'm sure Ubisoft is much more worried about AC2 sales than SH5 ones.
Other than spectacular Blizzard-style collector's editions, I don't know anyone that buys a boxed game over digital download anymore.
STILL it's good news for no DRM in future as I'm sure Ubisoft is much more worried about AC2 sales than SH5 ones.
The problem is, AC2 has consoles to fall on. AC2 has sold ~700,000 copies more than AC1 had in 16 weeks on consoles. That is 700,000 players they can "sacrifice" to the DRM on PC. You think there will be even half of that number who will boycott the DRM? :hmmm: I don't.
Sailor Steve
03-16-10, 09:58 AM
oh yeah, SH5 is a real multiplayer game yeah:doh:
I have never played any of the SH series in multiplayer mode and I think I'm hardly the only one.
Just imagine what a fun multiplayer it could have been if they made the destroyers driveable with droppable depth charges. All by a simple UI with sonar.
Silent Hunter II vs Destroyer Command. Played both sides, loved it. On the other hand SH3, 4 and 5 won't get me, as I don't like co-op play.
Other than spectacular Blizzard-style collector's editions, I don't know anyone that buys a boxed game over digital download anymore.
Me. Steam thinks I live somewhere outside the US, in a foreign country called Utah. It doesn't matter, though, because I won't buy anything I can't actually hold in my greedy little hands.
Bilge_Rat
03-16-10, 10:12 AM
The problem is, AC2 has consoles to fall on. AC2 has sold ~700,000 copies more than AC1 had in 16 weeks on consoles. That is 700,000 players they can "sacrifice" to the DRM on PC. You think there will be even half of that number who will boycott the DRM? :hmmm: I don't.
The problem is publishers don't rely on the PC market anymore. CoD:MW2 was a hit on consoles, but only sold 270,000+ legal copies for the PC while there were 4,100,000+ illegal PC pirate copies.
SH5 may be holding up well simply because there is no console version.
John Channing
03-16-10, 10:49 AM
The problem is publishers don't rely on the PC market anymore. CoD:MW2 was a hit on consoles, but only sold 270,000+ legal copies for the PC while there were 4,100,000+ illegal PC pirate copies.
Yeah, but assuming those figures are accurate those 4 million people would not have bought the game anyway and have already discarded it.
:roll:
JCC
All these numbers, console vs PC and the fact that I was in EB games yesterday seriously had hard time finding the little nook of a shelf for PC games just lends credit to my opinion. Pretty much any PC game is niche when compared to console games these days... Money is in the consoles and the stupid crackberry iphone games, hell I bet the latter makes a company a fortune for little investment.
Sad for an old PC gamer like myself... :down:
Yeah, but assuming those figures are accurate those 4 million people would not have bought the game anyway and have already discarded it.
JCC
That is a serious point. (a), How many of that number of downloads are really finished and ended up being played? (b) how many of those ended up being player twice, i.e. were not used to simply test in case of doubts regarding the game? (c) How many of those left now would have bought the game in first place if it was not hacked? (d) How many bought it after testing the cracked version because it turned out to be good?
I would hypothesize that less only a small 1-digit percentage of those 4 Mio would have bought it if it was never cracked. And those now include the ones would bought it after playing the crack.
However, 4 Mio is a seriously big number though. I wonder how it is measured, and what the errorbar of that measurement is? 10%? 30%? 50%? As a scientist I would guess it is amongst the latter.
John Channing
03-16-10, 11:31 AM
One way they are measured by the actual sales (a know number), compared to illegal downloads (as reported by torrent sites) and compared to the on-line players (also a know number).
If 4 million are consistently playing the pc version on-line vs. 270,000 paid purchases you pretty much have your facts there.
As I recall this is what happened with IL-2 by Maddox games.
JCC
Safe-Keeper
03-16-10, 11:58 AM
One month ago: "Damn Ubi, let's boycott the game! No way am I buying this! When their product gathers dust on shelves, they'll see the errors of their ways and repent!"
Today:
Header: SH5 overtakes Assasins Creed 2 in Steam Charts!!!'
Excerpt: "Silent Hunter 5, on the other hand, is likely to fare better since it has an established following who are more willing to put up with the DRM's requirements"
No amount of ROTFL smileys is sufficient to describe the hilarity of the situation, so just pretend there's a couple thousand of them:
:rotfl2:
Coldcall
03-16-10, 12:04 PM
Okay i repent my weakness!!! I gave in and bought the damn game. How many hail marys? :-)
But seriously i do feel a bit dirty for it but cant be helped.
Sonarman
03-16-10, 12:20 PM
All these numbers, console vs PC and the fact that I was in EB games yesterday seriously had hard time finding the little nook of a shelf for PC games just lends credit to my opinion.
Sad for an old PC gamer like myself... :down:
Couldn't agree more it is the same in the UK where the main retailer GAME seems to be giving less and less space to the PC, I think these "bricks and mortar" retailers are determined to kill PC Gaming off entirely. I spoke to an assistant in the shop and she said the company were mainly only stocking the highest profile AAA PC titles like Call of Duty etc now, a sad state of affairs indeed.
Couldn't agree more it is the same in the UK where the main retailer GAME seems to be giving less and less space to the PC, I think these "bricks and mortar" retailers are determined to kill PC Gaming off entirely. I spoke to an assistant in the shop and she said the company were mainly only stocking the highest profile AAA PC titles like Call of Duty etc now, a sad state of affairs indeed.
Im not sure they're determined to kill PC gaming, its just most of their sales come from the younger crowd, which usually means consoles. Thats just the reality of the market, its sales driven and sales are in console games. Add in the digital downloads and shelf space for PC games is going to be gone entirely in the near future.
I did chuckle when I saw AC2 and SH5 on display, along with NTW. That was all the front (cover) facing shelf space they gave PC games, the rest were stacked like books in a library so you get a sore neck looking for a title... I swear I have more PC games on my shelf then they did!
Bilge_Rat
03-16-10, 01:17 PM
One way they are measured by the actual sales (a know number), compared to illegal downloads (as reported by torrent sites) and compared to the on-line players (also a know number).
If 4 million are consistently playing the pc version on-line vs. 270,000 paid purchases you pretty much have your facts there.
As I recall this is what happened with IL-2 by Maddox games.
JCC
yes, its pretty bad when you look at it. Those figures are pretty easy to find on the internet:
http://kotaku.com/5435876/report-the-most-pirated-games-of-2009
http://kotaku.com/5426474/report-modern-warfare-2-pc-us-retail-sales-about-170000-in-november
http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2009/12/modern-warfare-2-pc-sales/
170,000 was november sales. Apparently, another 100,000 was sold through Steam. Total sales may be higher, but even if you double sales to say 500,000 and reduce piracy to 2,000,000, it is easy to see why piracy is killing the PC games market.
All these figures are a crock. The fact that The Witcher sold over 1.3 million copies despite being a single player PC only game from a small Polish developer, and easily pirated, and ultimately with a no DRM patch released shows that blaming piracy for lack of sales is just bull. If you sell crap then don't whine when it doesn't sell.
Check out torrent sites and see the traffic on those pirated games. You'll rarely find a game that has been downloaded more that a couple of hundred times, only the big so called AAA titles get into the thousands. Times that by 10 to get the majority of popular private and public game torrent sites and you still couldn't get anywhere near the ridiculous figure for piracy the companies quote.
Tired of all the PC gamer defeatism around here and other places. I mean who cares if the PC scene is 'dying' when most of the big games are pretty crap or just popcorn style entertainment? If I want to play I'll just get an eksbawks or pleystasiun! If EA, UBI and the rest leave for the consoles, it will just mean the the marginalised, innovative and interesting games released and ignored these days by small developers will come to the fore again. I'm sure Eastern European, German etc. developers will relish at the chance to be able to sell their games without being squeezed to the margins by the big boys. These are the regions that try to do things a little differently these days.
The PC will NEVER DIE! It will just be reclaimed by those that want serious, quality games.
Sonarman
03-16-10, 01:48 PM
It is pretty bad even for the smaller games like maritime business "Ports of call" it's creator Rolf Dieter Klein recently wrote on his forum....
"We have around 60% piracy of the platinum version and estimated 1000% of the boxed version (POC deluxe) - this killed the development for the boxed version as the distributor didn't get enough money out of the project."
yes, its pretty bad when you look at it. Those figures are pretty easy to find on the internet:
http://kotaku.com/5435876/report-the-most-pirated-games-of-2009
http://kotaku.com/5426474/report-modern-warfare-2-pc-us-retail-sales-about-170000-in-november
http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2009/12/modern-warfare-2-pc-sales/
170,000 was november sales. Apparently, another 100,000 was sold through Steam. Total sales may be higher, but even if you double sales to say 500,000 and reduce piracy to 2,000,000, it is easy to see why piracy is killing the PC games market.
JC, I agree that there are apparent gaps. Even if only 100.000 (5%) or 200.000 (10%) of those piracy download would have converted into sales if customers where honest, or the pirating didn't happen, than this is a 20-40% sales lost based on the 270.000 to ca 500.000 total sales estimate. That number does sound pretty reasonable. It, however, is based on a number of assumptions that all need testing. I don't expect companies to have a much better estimate, since that would strengthen their claims the public.
My opinion on piracy is that it is a symptom, not a root cause. Companies have to work on customer moral, loyality and binding through service, open ears and support. They need to start selling customers what the want to buy, and not selling what the want to sell. And they need to get away from the "patch me if you can on the release date" strategy, but do more thorough testing before. I would assume people are less and less willing to pay since it lacks quality, novelty, is not predominandly what they look for, or that as a pirate you are simply better off than as a paying customer. As a customer, you don't have any added-value. They are also less willing to pay for additional content that should have been part of the original release as it was intrinsic part of previous releases already. I would say for a customer, this whole strategy does not quite add up. But that's just my two cents, and future will test that argument no matter what.
And the PC market was said to be dead already many times, BTW. And as long as there is demand, it won't die. But maybe we'll see changes, maybe back to smaller developer studios with less running costs and more specialized content. Like Madminute games, or Matrix. Maybe the consolidation strategy of major publishers just was the wrong approach for such a diverse and split up market. But who would anyway have expected that many products such as a submarine simulation would ever be of real attraction to the majority of casual gamers? I'd be surprised...
It is pretty bad even for the smaller games like maritime business "Ports of call" it's creator Rolf Dieter Klein recently wrote on his forum....
"We have around 60% piracy of the platinum version and estimated 1000% of the boxed version (POC deluxe) - this killed the development for the boxed version as the distributor didn't get enough money out of the project."
There is a new version of POC? I loved that game on the Amiga, I would absolutely buy a version with updated graphics that would run under Win7!
Rip
Sonarman
03-16-10, 01:57 PM
There is a new version of POC? I loved that game on the Amiga, I would absolutely buy a version with updated graphics that would run under Win7!
Rip
Check it out here (http://www.portsofcall.de/) They even have adapted the old Amiga/PC POC to the iphone.
John Channing
03-16-10, 02:04 PM
Check out torrent sites and see the traffic on those pirated games. You'll rarely find a game that has been downloaded more that a couple of hundred times, only the big so called AAA titles get into the thousands. Times that by 10 to get the majority of popular private and public game torrent sites and you still couldn't get anywhere near the ridiculous figure for piracy the companies quote.
Not to burst your bubble, and heaven forbid that we let facts intrude on your opinion, but you do realize those numbers that have been quoted are from the torrent sites, and not the publishers, right?
Modern Warfare 2 on PC, for example, may have disappointed at the register (http://kotaku.com/5426474/report-modern-warfare-2-pc-us-retail-sales-about-170000-in-november), but according to TorrentFreak's figures it's been downloaded 4.1 million times.
JCC
Not to burst your bubble, and heaven forbid that we let facts intrude on your opinion, but you do realize those numbers that have been quoted are from the torrent sites, and not the publishers, right?
What figures? The 4,000,000,0000,0000, pirated versions of MW2?
If they are indeed from pirate sites then why are you all getting in a lather about them? They are as believable as company PR!
Oh and I checked the torrent sites, and the total number of downloads for MW2 are far, far lower than the quoted 4,000,000 figures. Even if I doubled them, they wouldn't come up to anything even half what has been said. So your statistics are flawed old chap.
But hey, why let facts get in the way of promoting the old 'Pirate Bogey Man' right? Maybe you'll next quote 'Pirat34evah' from www.Ipirateeverything.com (http://www.Ipirateeverything.com) who says that SH5 has been pirated 11,000,000 times and that's why Ubi needed this DRM?
It is pretty bad even for the smaller games like maritime business "Ports of call" it's creator Rolf Dieter Klein recently wrote on his forum....
"We have around 60% piracy of the platinum version and estimated 1000% of the boxed version (POC deluxe) - this killed the development for the boxed version as the distributor didn't get enough money out of the project."
Port of Call is ****house anyway, Data Becker quality, so old Rolf is just blaming a lack of talent on the bogeyman. Doubt that even a single pirate of that game (all 20 of them) would have bought it anyway. Wonder he didn't blame the 'J' word. Mount and Blade has also been massively pirated yet they are doing fine. Why is that?
John Channing
03-16-10, 02:20 PM
What figures? The 4,000,000,0000,0000, pirated versions of MW2?
If they are indeed from pirate sites then why are you all getting in a lather about them? They are as believable as company PR!
Oh and I checked the torrent sites, and the total number of downloads for MW2 are far, far lower than the quoted 4,000,000 figures. Even if I doubled them, they wouldn't come up to anything even half what has been said. So your statistics are flawed old chap.
But hey, why let facts get in the way of promoting the old 'Pirate Bogey Man' right? Maybe you'll next quote 'Pirat34evah' from www.Ipirateeverything.com (http://www.Ipirateeverything.com) who says that SH5 has been pirated 11,000,000 times and that's why Ubi needed this DRM?
Port of Call is ****house anyway, Data Becker quality, so old Rolf is just blaming a lack of talent on the bogeyman. Doubt that even a single pirate of that game (all 20 of them) would have bought it anyway. Wonder he didn't blame the 'J' word. Mount and Blade has also been massively pirated yet they are doing fine. Why is that?
Lovely chatting with you.
JCC
Lovely chatting with you.
JCC
Oops, sorry about that John, didn't see your caveat. Teach me to read all the posts next time. Sorry.
"Silent Hunter 5, on the other hand, is likely to fare better since it has an established following who are more willing to put up with the DRM's requirements"
Pretty accurate statement if you ask me.
If it was any other game, i wouldn't have bought it. As much as i'd like to play AC2.. its just not worth it. It will eventually be bargain-bin. I'll check it out then.
Bilge_Rat
03-16-10, 03:07 PM
But hey, why let facts get in the way of promoting the old 'Pirate Bogey Man' right?
exactly, why let pesky, easily verifiable facts get in the way, especially when they prove what a huge problem piracy is.
much easier to just make up your own, right? :rolleyes:
exactly, why let pesky, easily verifiable facts get in the way, especially when they prove what a huge problem piracy is.
much easier to just make up your own, right? :rolleyes:
Where's the easily verifiable facts? From Torrentfreak?
I see you decided to ignore my VERIFIABLE facts about The Witcher game sales and those I posted recently about Galactic Civilizations II. Seems that the anti-piracy brigade likes to make up things and ignores reality themselves, right? :rolleyes:
I like how you also ignore the fact that supposedly much more pirated games like Battlefield, Warhammer, Supreme Commander etc. STILL top the Steam charts! Funny that, I would have thought that since they are supposedly massively pirated then why are they topping the sales charts?
Funny how the anti-piracy brigade forgets verifiable facts when they don't suit their false thesis. Better to just blame mythical pirates and not poor quality, buggy, repetitive, poorly supported, often sloppily ported games for the PC's decline! :YAWN:
Bilge_Rat
03-16-10, 04:04 PM
Where's the easily verifiable facts? From Torrentfreak?
I see you decided to ignore my VERIFIABLE facts about The Witcher game sales and those I posted recently about Galactic Civilizations II. Seems that the anti-piracy brigade likes to make up things and ignores reality themselves, right? :rolleyes:
I like how you also ignore the fact that supposedly much more pirated games like Battlefield, Warhammer, Supreme Commander etc. STILL top the Steam charts! Funny that, I would have thought that since they are supposedly massively pirated then why are they topping the sales charts?
Funny how the anti-piracy brigade forgets verifiable facts when they don't suit their false thesis. Better to just blame mythical pirates and not poor quality, buggy, repetitive, poorly supported, often sloppily ported games for the PC's decline! :YAWN:
my figures are quoted a bit farther up from several well known sites which all say the same thing. You can also do your own Google search and find several more articles that all say the same thing about CoD:MW2.
If you have any figures to back up your claims, post them and we will be glad to verify your backup. Otherwise, all I see is a lot of hot air.
Nisgeis
03-16-10, 04:12 PM
Wasn't the PC implementation of MW2 a complete mess and not what the fans wanted - the multiplayer was just broken, as you couldn't play against your mates, which is what everyone wants to do on a PC - none of this play random people you don't know stuff. But the game story itself had been massively hyped up? That's a recipe for piracy - a game that doesn't deliver what the fans want and isn't a worthy successor, but that you've been convinced that you must play no matter what by the hype.
Still, this isn't on topic.
my figures are quoted a bit farther up from several well known sites which all say the same thing. You can also do your own Google search and find several more articles that all say the same thing about CoD:MW2.
If you have any figures to back up your claims, post them and we will be glad to verify your backup. Otherwise, all I see is a lot of hot air.
Kotaku is hardly a reliable source, especially as they base their figures on TorrentFreak, which then bases its figures on Bittorrent etc. The figures from Bittorrent include partial downloads as well, fake torrents
Even so you keep going back to MW2 a game which had a lot of issues regarding it's multiplayer content, and THIS is what has been hurting PC sales rather than piracy. Funny how you take some dubious figures and take them out of context.
Finally there is no proven correlation between piracy and sales figures. As I've said, The Witcher has sold over a million copies and was heavily pirated, which for a less well known product should have been far more damaging than your supposed figures for MW2. Funny that Spore, sold many many copies despite being pirated mercilessly according to the same source, as was Fallout 3, as was Dragon Age.
Could it be that poor PC sales were due to the lack of dedicated servers and no moddability for MW2 which meant that people were reluctant to pay top dollar for a 4 hour long game just as Nisgeis has said? It would be worth following that up.
I see your figures as ambiguous, especially when you compare the amount of piracy versus games sold of other titles.
Maybe I was too dismissive of piracy, but the weird figures one sees when comparing different titles makes me skeptical about it being a major cause of MW2 supposedly lackluster PC sales.
For me piracy is just an excuse for making shoddy games. Companies now justify lack of manuals, supplementary materials, QA by blaming it all on pirates. That's a crock and as a sim player like you obviously are, you should be treating that with the contempt it deserves knowing that sims were being abandoned long before the current 'piracy' trend. It's all about profit maximization and companies justify all their actions by saying 'were it not for pirates' we'd do this or that.
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