Romanian merchant heading into Dutch port?

[Paul Riley]

Tonight I spotted a ship heading east through AN87 into Zeebrugge it seems.Upon closer inspection it was confirmed as a Romanian large merchant,easily a juicy 7 and a half thousand tonner too.Now with Romania being allied to Germany for most of the war would it seem normal for Romanian shipping to operate in waters so close to Britain and France? I was lucky I didnt attack in the end,at first I thought it was a French vessel but moved in closer until I could JUST pick out yellow on the flag in the darkness,so much for having lights on ships,why don't they bloody use them? :nope:

[Gilbou]

Some neutral ships are known to go all lights off if submarines are known to be in the area. Better travel all lights off and not become a mistake :ping:

[Sailor Steve]

In the stock game no ships are lighted. In GWX some neutrals are lighted, but not all.

[Jimbuna]

As above....the only exception being, if it is lit it is a neutral.

[vergol]

I once spotted a non-lit Norwegian merchant in formation with a British convoy, in 1939. I hesitated to attack it, though I'm pretty sure it was fair game historically.

If my memory serves, any and all ships that were part of an armed/escorted enemy convoy were treated as hostile.

[Jimbuna]

I once spotted a non-lit Norwegian merchant in formation with a British convoy, in 1939. I hesitated to attack it, though I'm pretty sure it was fair game historically.

If my memory serves, any and all ships that were part of an armed/escorted enemy convoy were treated as hostile.

The game is different....no semblence with RL in that respect.

[vergol]

The game is different....no semblence with RL in that respect.

So are you saying I was right not to attack the non-lit Norwegian in 1939? The game would've held it against me?

[Jimbuna]

So are you saying I was right not to attack the non-lit Norwegian in 1939? The game would've held it against me?


Yes...if the ship is a neutral at the time of sinking you will receive a negative renown hit and every ship from that country will consider you an enemy for the following 24 hours.

[vergol]

That's what I thought. No matter though; we celebrated Christmas a few weeks ago; it is now 1940. A few more months and the Norwegians will regret this treachery.

[Jimbuna]

SINK EM ALL!! http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[Wulfmann]

I changed neutral to count the same as enemy for rewards but I have a strict policy regarding attacking them.

They must be near an enemy port headed in that direction. If they are headed away that is not good enough.
On my latest Pauchenschlag patrol their was a Venezuelan convoy of tankers in the Florida straits headed for Port Canaveral. The were about 50 miles from the port so i took out the big one as it was obviously delivering oil to the Amerikaneren Schweinen!!!

Because there are known war zones where attacking a neutral was acceptable if one can abide by those rules it makes no sense for game's sake to not attack a ship that would have been a fair target.

At least IMO

Wulfmann

[Snestorm]

I changed neutral to count the same as enemy for rewards but I have a strict policy regarding attacking them.

They must be near an enemy port headed in that direction. If they are headed away that is not good enough.
On my latest Pauchenschlag patrol their was a Venezuelan convoy of tankers in the Florida straits headed for Port Canaveral. The were about 50 miles from the port so i took out the big one as it was obviously delivering oil to the Amerikaneren Schweinen!!!

Because there are known war zones where attacking a neutral was acceptable if one can abide by those rules it makes no sense for game's sake to not attack a ship that would have been a fair target.

At least IMO

Wulfmann

Agreed.
I'm set up the same way, with the same rules.

[vergol]

Is this special set of rules part of some mod? Or did you have to tweak some text files to enable it?

[Snestorm]

Is this special set of rules part of some mod? Or did you have to tweak some text files to enable it?

Neither. It's just plain old self control.

F.eks.: In 1939, it's OK to target a norwegian ship outside of, and on a course to Hartlepool, UK.
It's not OK to sink that very same ship outside of Oslo, Norway.

A US flagged ship in an english convoy is fair game.
A US flagged ship, sailing alone, Mid Atlantic, is hands off.

In other words you can get + renown for sinking neutrals that would be historicaly acceptable targets, but you should excercise some self control in NOT sinking neutrals that are historicaly unacceptable targets.

[vergol]

In other words you can get + renown for sinking neutrals that would be historicaly acceptable targets, but you should excercise some self control in NOT sinking neutrals that are historicaly unacceptable targets.

Not sure I follow. The game subtracts renown if you sink neutral-flagged merchants. But you're telling me I'll get + renown for sinking those same merchants in 'contested' areas.

Do you mean to say I should willingly take a renown hit for staying true to historical accuracy?

[Snestorm]

Not sure I follow. The game subtracts renown if you sink neutral-flagged merchants. But you're telling me I'll get + renown for sinking those same merchants in 'contested' areas.

Do you mean to say I should willingly take a renown hit for staying true to historical accuracy?

No.
Go into the config files.
Under "Renown" you will see "neutral -1".
Just use notepad to edit out that minus sign.

Now you will recieve full credit for sinking neutral ships.

Understand better now?

[vergol]

Yes. I was confused because I specifically asked earlier if you had to tweak some files to accomplish this.

[Paul Riley]

No.
Go into the config files.
Under "Renown" you will see "neutral -1".
Just use notepad to edit out that minus sign.

Now you will recieve full credit for sinking neutral ships.

Understand better now?

Thats great,I never knew you could do that :D

[Paul Riley]

Ultimately,if in doubt I think the best thing we can do when it comes to "should I attack or not" is to consult the flags pullout in GWX3 and verify when that nation becomes hostile.Its really the only way to be sure...I think ;)

[Paul Riley]

Amerikaneren Schweinen!!!



:rotfl2:

[Pisces]

Romanian merchant heading into Dutch port?

Tonight I spotted a ship heading east through AN87 into Zeebrugge it seems.Paul, get your Belgian Waffles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_waffle) while you still can. They are about to declare war on you for what you just said. Or atleast organize a Waffle-blockade. ;)

[Paul Riley]

haha :haha:

[RConch]

Sort of confusing. Now I just leave them alone.
I ran across a darken convoy in the northern North Sea escorted by English A+B destroyers, after having a radio message tell me before it was ok to attack in this situation.
Ran in and fired two torpedos at a large merchant, hit and sank him along with a destroyer.
The large merchant was a Norwegian.
I took a renown hit on that one.:damn:

[Paul Riley]

It can get confusing sometimes.As others have said,if it is part of a British convoy it would seem a valid target,otherwise may be better to leave it alone.

[vergol]

On the other hand...

The tonnage figures after each GWX patrol at max realism are already outrageously high. So by attacking a neutral ship that's part of an enemy convoy you would indulge yourself in the historically-factual mistake making, and get slapped on the wrist by high command as a result.

Call it 110% realism.

[KL-alfman]

Call it 110% realism.


:D
very clever idea!

[Wulfmann]

IMO, and only IMO, it comes down to trying to have a more realistic attitude about neutrals and what commanders did and did not do.
Out side of known war zones I simply do not attack neutrals and even in war zones only if they are headed to an enemy port and the distance away leads to the obvious conclusion they could not be going anywhere but an enemy port thus supplying said enemy.
The -1 means you will allow the neutral to support the enemy where in real life international law made that verified enemy supporting neutral a fair target.
That said I am very strict on attacking neutrals and must say it is very rare that I do so.
Any neutral in an escorted convoy would have been a legal target in WWII and if you keep the -1 you are penalized where you never would have been
If you can not be diligent perhaps the -1 would suit you better.

Wulfmann

[Paul Riley]

I personally don't care about democracy,international rules,regulations or any other restriction for that matter.If I see a neutral in an enemy convoy (why are they there in the first place?) I will waste it,if I see a ship with its lights off (the idiotic fools for not clearly displaying their ID) I will waste it,and if the ship is almost definitely heading to an enemy port (as already mentioned they are aiding the enemy) I will not just waste it I will machine gun the survivors too :salute:
As you can see,I am growing restless for some kills now,and for some tonnage to my name,and the treaty of Versailles can kiss my rosy white ARSE! :woot:
So neutrals,stay away from enemy convoys,put your lights on,and keep away from their ports...or else :arrgh!:
I'll see how long I can keep biting my lip and refraining from attacks without warning against neutrals...not very long I can tell you.

[Sailor Steve]

A long time ago I set my Neutral in that file to '0'. That way I don't get credit for sinking neutrals, but I don't get punished for it either. It keeps me from just succumbing to temptation and sinking every one I see, and I try to avoid them in convoys as well, but if I accidentally hit one I don't have to worry about anything but a lost torpedo.

I also reduced 'Friendly' from -10 to -1, since every friendly-fire incident in the Ubootwaffe resulted from the sunken ship being where it wasn't supposed to be, and the u-boat captain being exonerated.

[Paul Riley]

Sounds good to me SS.
I will be doing a bit of editing after this patrol I think,a little renown boost for starters (the +200 for return to port)

[Sailor Steve]

It's funny, but I've never done that. But then I never seem to use the renown for anything anyway. I've sometimes done an ocassional upgrade (new hydrophones etc) but I never 'buy' crew and I always keep the same boat. Of course running three simultaneous careers in three different boats helps.:D

[Paul Riley]

Its rare for me to also 'buy' crew as you put it,unless of course I have crew members that were killed in which case replacements will be necessary.I will on the other hand not be shy when it comes to 'buying' new equipment or getting a new UBoat.I recall in Iron Coffins towards the end how Werner was quite disgusted that his new Uboat was never fitted with the schnorkel where others had been luckier.I think he managed to get one fitted in the end but after much heated discussion and begging.An engine upgrade is always nice too,certainly makes those arduous overhauls easier.
I love new toys :yeah:

[Jimbuna]

Just for info purposes Paul.....no engine upgrades in GWX3.0 http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4030/winkbigid2zj6.gif

[Paul Riley]

Just for info purposes Paul.....no engine upgrades in GWX3.0 http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4030/winkbigid2zj6.gif

OMG,you're kidding,how come?surely in real life they had improved engines installed? :o

[Jimbuna]

OMG,you're kidding,how come?surely in real life they had improved engines installed? :o

It's a long story but basically the original engines that came with the game were thereabouts in performance with the supercharged ones already supplied.

[Wulfmann]

It's funny, but I've never done that. But then I never seem to use the renown for anything anyway. I've sometimes done an ocassional upgrade (new hydrophones etc) but I never 'buy' crew and I always keep the same boat. Of course running three simultaneous careers in three different boats helps.:D

I agree, renown is almost irrelevant to me as well.
I do switch to a type9c for Pauchenschlag at the end of 41 but I have close to 20K renown at that point.
I have even thought about editing all the renown to be 1 for everything earned and 1 to buy everything. But it is so meaningless I just don't bother.
At this point it is purely the experience and not the score.
I had originally eliminated -1 so long ago it just became part of my set up edits with each load

Wulfmann

[vergol]

if I see a ship with its lights off (the idiotic fools for not clearly displaying their ID) I will waste it

Let's hope that no hospital ship loses power mid-voyage.

I will not just waste it I will machine gun the survivors too

Whoa...

[ryanglavin]

No.
Go into the config files.
Under "Renown" you will see "neutral -1".
Just use notepad to edit out that minus sign.

Now you will recieve full credit for sinking neutral ships.

Understand better now?

Config is the CFG right? I can't find a renown section in it.

[Jimbuna]

Config is the CFG right? I can't find a renown section in it.

Go to: C:\Program Files\Ubisoft\GWX3.0\data\Cfg

Then Basic CFG and you'll see a three sections down:


[RENOWN]
RenownReachGridObjCompleted=0
RenownPatrolGridObjCompleted=0
CompletedPatrol=0
NEUTRAL=-1
ALLIED=1
AXIS=-10
WrongShipSunk=-5000
FirstRankRenown=100
SecondRankRenown=350
EndCampaign=-5000

[ryanglavin]

Go to: C:\Program Files\Ubisoft\GWX3.0\data\Cfg

Then Basic CFG and you'll see a three sections down:


[RENOWN]
RenownReachGridObjCompleted=0
RenownPatrolGridObjCompleted=0
CompletedPatrol=0
NEUTRAL=-1
ALLIED=1
AXIS=-10
WrongShipSunk=-5000
FirstRankRenown=100
SecondRankRenown=350
EndCampaign=-5000

Thanks Jim, I never seem to be able to find the right thing. As, at first, with the original GWX, I had to install at least 10 times before I got it right.

[Paul Riley]

@vergol,

I don't think I will attack a hospital ship,being a non combatant and all,we shall have to wait and see,depending on my mood and how ruthless I feel of course.
And our machine guns are full of water,no need to worry,and we also have a good supply of water bombs too to further scare the survivors thrashing around in the sea :har:
Enter 'the tyrant of the high seas' :arrgh!::03:

[Wulfmann]

Hospital ships are rated differently than other merchants.

The 1 or -1 means X=times the renown given that ship.
So sinking a British merchant with a renown of 200 would be 200 for 1 or for a neutral ship -200 for -1.

The hospital ships renown is a -10,000 so no matter what setting you have in the basic cfg file you get hammered for sinking a hospital ship.

A long time ago I attacked one with the deck gun after not seeing the crosses on a dim night but as I closed I saw them and was aghast at my error.
Fortunately there is no penalty for shooting one up as long as you don't sink it.

Wulfmann

[Paul Riley]

If I see one I will pull up alongside and shout over the megaphone "a boarding party will shortly be boarding your vessel,we have no intention of harming you or your ship,but we do demand you hand over all your sexy nurses,for me and my men havent seen a woman in months and we are close to succumbing to cabin fever" :yeah:

[frau kaleun]

me and my men havent seen a woman in months and we are close to succumbing to cabin fever

Is that what the kids are calling it these days? :O:

[Paul Riley]

oil,grease,vomit,perpetual dampness,BO,scheisse,bad breath,sweaty feet,hair grease,DC attacks,air attacks! argh!,all we need is pretty women on my boat! :wah:

[vergol]

There wouldn't be a "u-boat peril" if Allies packed their hospital ships with sexy nurses and hidden guns.

[ryanglavin]

Is that what the kids are calling it these days? :O:

I call it lack of good companionship.

[Paul Riley]

Go to: C:\Program Files\Ubisoft\GWX3.0\data\Cfg

Then Basic CFG and you'll see a three sections down:


[RENOWN]
RenownReachGridObjCompleted=0
RenownPatrolGridObjCompleted=0
CompletedPatrol=0
NEUTRAL=-1
ALLIED=1
AXIS=-10
WrongShipSunk=-5000
FirstRankRenown=100
SecondRankRenown=350
EndCampaign=-5000

Jim,I am moments away from doing my first cfg edit.I will reset 'neutral' to 0,and for my +200 bonus for bringing the UB back I simply insert 200 into 'completed patrol' ? and lastly,the editing must be done PRE patrol (to take effect in next patrol/s) just like when installing mods?,or can it be done mid patrol?.
Sorry to sound like such a bloody retard here! :nope:
Cheers pal.

[Paul Riley]

Theoretically the renown figures can be set to any desired figure?,eg: as the war becomes even more dangerous from about 1943 onwards one could even double his renown to +2,to simulate the increasing difficulty in actually sinking enemy ships and damaging convoys? This is only an idea,and is probably not very realistic.

[Snestorm]

Theoretically the renown figures can be set to any desired figure?,eg: as the war becomes even more dangerous from about 1943 onwards one could even double his renown to +2,to simulate the increasing difficulty in actually sinking enemy ships and damaging convoys? This is only an idea,and is probably not very realistic.

Corect.

Only make changes while in port.

[Paul Riley]

Corect.

Only make changes while in port.

Thanks for the warning :up:

[Snestorm]

Thanks for the warning :up:

You can get new boats too, without renown.
And you don't even have to play with the cnfg file.
Let me know when your ready for a new ride.

[Paul Riley]

Just fired my game up ready for another session on my fav game,loading bar almost complete,hands becoming sweaty with excitement,game appears,strange explosion/crackling sound is heard,game freezes,annoying message pops up saying 'SH3 has encountered strange brown pellet shaped objects in its pants' ,crash to desktop then ensues.
Problem happened 3 times,no chance of it fixing itself,resorted to beginning patrol again.
I will say though,I was submerged at the time of the save and had JUST sunk a ship as you can still hear underwater explosions,for like 2-3 seconds...was this the problem...I saved it underwater too close to a ship? have I just experienced the infamous 'dont save submerged near ships' bug? :nope::zzz:

[Paul Riley]

DAMN! that previous post should have gone up as a new thread! can someone put it up for me?! my mistake,rushed it! :nope:

[Snestorm]

Both.
You should try to be 50 KM from any contacts or sinkings when saving.
Word is "don't save submerged". This one I never had the guts to try.

Finding a "good" time to save can be a real pain when the bed is calling.

[Paul Riley]

Thats exactly what happened I reckon.So rule of thumb is,ensure at least 50km from a sinking?,or ships in general?,and definitely NO saving submerged.I'll try and remember :nope:
Can you get someone to post my earlier message onto the new threads?I posted it in here by accident.

Cheers.

[Jimbuna]

Thats exactly what happened I reckon.So rule of thumb is,ensure at least 50km from a sinking?,or ships in general?,and definitely NO saving submerged.I'll try and remember :nope:
Can you get someone to post my earlier message onto the new threads?I posted it in here by accident.

Cheers.

Tis good you realise where you went wrong....a wiser Kaleun the next time round http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

[vergol]

Word is "don't save submerged". This one I never had the guts to try.

Yep. The AI can go completely bonkers. If you load while submerged near a convoy, you're likely to notice one or more additional convoys spawn in the vicinity (usually really confusing for your hydrophone guy). In addition, strange ship behavior can occur - like drastically altering course, changing speed, firing at friendlies, spontaneous damage, explosions, and/or sinking of some ships in visual range.

If you're lucky to not witness any of these things, you'll get away with just a CTD.

So yea, don't save submerged. :O:

If you save surfaced near a single ship or convoy, it's not such a big deal if you're at least 5 km from the nearest visual contact. If you're too close to them and save, then load, there's a good chance the nearest ship will put you in its spot light and fire, regardless of whether it saw you before the save/load. So it's generally not recommended.

I tend to think of this not as a bug, but rather a deterrent to 'quicksave'. So there's no "re-do" after failed attacks. I often accept defeat and move on rather than try to load some distant save and waste an additional two hours. It keeps the tonnage historically low and realism pretty high.

Good hunting. :salute:

[Sailor Steve]

OMG,you're kidding,how come?surely in real life they had improved engines installed? :o
I can never make a long story short. In SH3 you get a Type VIIB that makes almost 18 knots without superchargers. If you 'buy' the superchargers you now make over 20 knots.

The reality? The Type VIIA came without superchargers, and made 17 knots. There were no upgrades, because there were only a few of them. The Type VIIB and every model after came with superchargers already installed, so there's nothing to upgrade to. The VIIB made 17.9 knots with them. The heavier VIIC made 17.6 knots. That is what they make in the game, without 'upgrades'.

If you really want to have some fun, try SH5. It has a Chief Engineer with the magical ability to make the boat go 25 knots.:D

[Snestorm]

If you really want to have some fun, try SH5. It has a Chief Engineer with the magical ability to make the boat go 25 knots.:D

Glad I saved my money.
25 Knots?!?!

I love my SH3.

[Tynan]

It keeps the tonnage historically low and realism pretty high.

Good hunting. :salute:

Umm, historically the U-boat was responsible for the sinking of more tonnage than any other naval ship ever built in the history of human seafaring...over 14 million tons in just a few years...:D

[Sailor Steve]

Umm, historically the U-boat was responsible for the sinking of more tonnage than any other naval ship ever built in the history of human seafaring...over 14 million tons in just a few years...:D
True, but he was talking about individual tonnage, which by-and-large was fairly low, with a lot of boats never even seeing enemy merchants.

[Paul Riley]

If you really want to have some fun, try SH5. It has a Chief Engineer with the magical ability to make the boat go 25 knots.

I'll be staying far away from SH5 Steve,until they get rid of the ridiculously oppressive online requirements :o:nope:
What on earth were they thinking?!

[Snestorm]

I'll be staying far away from SH5 Steve,until they get rid of the ridiculously oppressive online requirements :o:nope:
What on earth were they thinking?!

Judging by the end result, it looks like they weren't thinking.
Not very well anyway.

[Sailor Steve]

I'll be staying far away from SH5 Steve,until they get rid of the ridiculously oppressive online requirements :o:nope:
What on earth were they thinking?!
Trust me, I haven't bought it either, and won't until 'IT' is gone. I was describing what I've read in the SH5 threads.:sunny:

[Jimbuna]

Judging by the end result, it looks like they weren't thinking.
Not very well anyway.

I'm reckoning on 6 to 12 months post release....If it is going to happen at all.