...once upon a time in Nazi occupied France...

[Bilge_Rat]

Kpt. Wagner is asked to attend a meeting with Admiral Donitz.


Donitz: good news, Wagner, based on your performance with the SH3 type VII-A, I am giving you command of the brand new SH5 type VII-C.

Wagner: herr admiral, I must respectfully decline.

Donitz: why?

Wagner: the SH5 sub is not realistic. For example, I am expected to walk inside the sub from station to station. I am expected to leave the bridge before the boat will dive. I preferred my SH3 boat where I could magically teleport from station to station, like in Star Trek. That was much more "realistic".

Donitz: anything else?

Wagner: yes, I also do not like the periscope station. I am expected to be able to tell the XO the proposed solution while being able to rotate the scope to keep an eye on pesky escorts. I much preferred my SH3 sub where my scope was locked on the target and I was expected to manually input data into the TDC, while the rest of the crew just stands by and looks.

Donitz: I see.

Wagner: And another thing. I am expected to actually look at the dials in the conning tower, as a real captain would, to see my speed, depth, rudder angle, engine rpm, etc. I much preferred my old SH3 sub where dials would float in the air like the HUD on a modern fighter. It was much more "realistic".

Donitz: most disturbing.

Wagner: one additional point, herr admiral, in Sh5, I am expected to only deal with the officers and senior petty officers, as a real skipper does, instead of micromanaging each and every crew member as I had to do in SH3.

Donitz: I understand all your concerns, Wagner, but is'nt the whole point of a submarine simulation to put you in the same situation as a real life captain on a real life U-boat?

Wagner: With respect, herr admiral, the whole point of a submarine simulation is to be "realistic", not to simulate real life...

[sergei]

Made me laugh :DL

[robbo180265]

10/10 - very funny :rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

[Méo]

+1 :haha:

:yeah::salute:

[kptn_kaiserhof]

i must second that

[Gammelpreusse]

lol, great post, with lots of truth to it :yep:

[gmccabe01]

Excelllent!

[Will-Rommel]

:03:;)

[coronas]

My respects , Kpt. Wagner! :salute:

[Sailor Steve]

:rotfl2::rock:

[Jimbuna]

Nice one :DL

[krupp_88mm]

nice socratic method, if only debate was allowed in ubisoft occupied territories

[Jimbuna]

nice socratic method, if only debate was allowed in ubisoft occupied territories

Oh but they are...provided you toe the line expected :DL

[Iliaz]

:har:

[Deadcell]

Lol, very good read!

[Nordmann]

Heh, very good, and quite true.

[derblaueClaus]

:har::up:

[John Channing]

Who knew the "A" in Type VIIA stood for "Arcade"!

JCC

[Vreith]

Sheer awesomeness, :salute:

[Georg_Unterberg]

:har:

I needed this laugh while waiting for Ubi server to return....

[molotof]

the whole point of a submarine simulation is to be "realistic", not to simulate real lifejust epic :D

[flymar]

Funny one but I do not agree with the conclusion.

[CaptainHaplo]

OK - having spent a couple of hours playing SH5 this weekend, let me rebut this one.

Kapitan: Herr Admiral - I cannot accept a Sh5 class sub.

Donitz: Why not, Kapitan?

Kapitan: Admiral, in real life I can speak to my crew while I perform specific functions. In a SH3 class sub, some control liberties were taken that allow me to replicate the same thing. For example, I am running at periscope depth with a destroyer heading it, bearing 240 degrees. My course is currently dead north. In SH3, I can order a heading change to 60 degrees, while ordering a dive to 60 meter and still keep an eye on my target until we pass below 16 meters. In SH5, no such ability exists. I can dive, but I must play the role of Chief, watching and ordering a leveling off at the depth desired.

Donitz: I see, it would be inappropriate for you to take on the tasks of an enlisted sailor.

Kapitan: Forgive me Admiral, but that is not all. I must also take over the helm, because a real captain can order a specific heading, but in an SH5 sub, this cannot be done unless I use the scope to point out the desired course. Given the need to use the scope for combat observation and awareness, the need to "drive" the sub with it is hardly realistic. Nor do I have any desire to manually steer the boat itself, having to watch among everything else, the ships heading. After all, in real life, as in SH3 class vessels, the helmsman understood a compass heading.

Donitz: But you get to talk to your crew now.

Kapitan: Yes sir, I do, but I am out here to fight a war, not worry about banjo strings or whatever for the cook. Nor do I even want to consider his "special soup". Would you want any of his soup, herr Admiral?

Donitz: I shall reconsider the assignment. Once SH5 class vessels allow a captain to realistically simulate a combat uboat as they should, with situational awareness taking priority over "sit here and do the helmsman and planesman's job" - we will discuss this again.

Kapitan: Jahowl, Admiral!

[coronas]

Another good reading:
If real life were like SH5 Pt1 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1121062387/m/5511054148)

:03:

[Commie]

Captain Haplo is right. The OP misses the point especially with the 'warping to stations' thing. Is this a submarine combat simulation or Discovery channel exhibit?

[Gammelpreusse]

Captain Haplo is right. The OP misses the point especially with the 'warping to stations' thing. Is this a submarine combat simulation or Discovery channel exhibit?

How about scratching the combat and making it a submarine simulation with combat included, eh?

There is more to immerse oneself in a boat but mere fighting =)

[Juliano]

How about scratching the combat and making it a submarine simulation with combat included, eh?

There is more to immerse oneself in a boat but mere fighting =)

Yeah, like smoking a cigarrete at the bridge while watching the waves and the sunrise/sunset
oh whait, I did that in SH3 and 4 also
nevermind :oops:

[Bilge_Rat]

For example, I am running at periscope depth with a destroyer heading it, bearing 240 degrees. My course is currently dead north. In SH3, I can order a heading change to 60 degrees, while ordering a dive to 60 meter and still keep an eye on my target until we pass below 16 meters. In SH5, no such ability exists. I can dive, but I must play the role of Chief, watching and ordering a leveling off at the depth desired.

Kapitan: Forgive me Admiral, but that is not all. I must also take over the helm, because a real captain can order a specific heading, but in an SH5 sub, this cannot be done unless I use the scope to point out the desired course. Given the need to use the scope for combat observation and awareness, the need to "drive" the sub with it is hardly realistic. Nor do I have any desire to manually steer the boat itself, having to watch among everything else, the ships heading. After all, in real life, as in SH3 class vessels, the helmsman understood a compass heading.

In SH5, you can order a course change from any station by bringing up the TAImap and entering a new course or dragging an existing waypoint to the desired course. In SH3, you click on a dial at the bottom of the screen.

In the same way, to set depth, you click on the bar at the bottom left of the screen. In SH3, you click a dial on the bottom right of the screen.

Is one more realistic than another? You can do everything with the SH5 interface that you can do with the SH3 interface.

my original point is that you see many threads where posters are lambasting SH5 as being dumbed down or "arkadey". From where I am sitting, most of these criticisms boil down to the fact that they do not like the SH5 interface, but that is matter of personal preference, not a matter of "realism".

[Jimbuna]

Who knew the "A" in Type VIIA stood for "Arcade"!

JCC

Does that mean the "B" in Type VIIB stands for "Beta"?

[OakGroove]

Wagner recently was wondering whether Dönitz is unaware of the existence or purpose of speaking tubes and concept of order relaying, and was seen joking at the bar about SH5 being a realistic bipedal simulation. From Wagners perspective Doenitz assessment is somewhat flawed, when stating the purpose of a U-Boat simulation is to highlight the skippers biomechanical activities.

Wagner agrees that the "human touch" could be a nice addition, if low profile, optional, and first and foremost working (~ making sense), not unnecessarily encumbering the game. Wagner doesn't like, nor understand, the concept of "powerups"; connecting boat and weapon specifications to crew morale and distributed "Skillpoints". Wagner thinks that's a feature commonly found in action titles. Instead of allocating time& money to the implementation of these, he would have rather seen those resources go into engine optimisation and increased system depth. When asked what he expects from a serious game, a submarine simulation, he refers to subject books, i.e.:
http://www.amazon.com/Submarine-design-Ulrich-Gabler/dp/3763701249

In his opinion, the purpose of a U-Boat simulation is to simulate the U-Boat, its equiment and the virtual environment it is operating in and interacting with. He thinks good graphics and crew interaction do help realism, but are no substitute for simulation.

[pythos]

You know, the OP nailed the gripes some people are having.

What the heck does simulation mean to some of you?

Were you the same people that bitched and moaned about flight sim aircraft gaining virtual cockpits? "oh, that's too much eye candy, and it blocks my view."

In SH5 you can give orders for the boat from ANY location, even outside the boat....JUST LIKE SH2,3, and 4!!!

The only issue I have is closing the hatch with the crew on bridge, that is really un-realistic.

As far as the commander needing to look at the gauges to gain situational awareness, is technically not right. When in an attack scenario the commander was at the periscope, and the 1wo was up in the conning tower with him. The captain made observations, and the WO put that data into the torpedo computer, also in the tower.

Sh5, does not model this, and I am sure if it did, it would be one more gripe for those that want a sim to not be a sim.

[Faamecanic]

Kpt. Wagner is asked to attend a meeting with Admiral Donitz.


Donitz: good news, Wagner, based on your performance with the SH3 type VII-A, I am giving you command of the brand new SH5 type VII-C.

Wagner: herr admiral, I must respectfully decline.

Donitz: why?

Wagner: the SH5 sub is not realistic. For example, I am expected to walk inside the sub from station to station. I am expected to leave the bridge before the boat will dive. I preferred my SH3 boat where I could magically teleport from station to station, like in Star Trek. That was much more "realistic".

Donitz: anything else?

Wagner: yes, I also do not like the periscope station. I am expected to be able to tell the XO the proposed solution while being able to rotate the scope to keep an eye on pesky escorts. I much preferred my SH3 sub where my scope was locked on the target and I was expected to manually input data into the TDC, while the rest of the crew just stands by and looks.

Donitz: I see.

Wagner: And another thing. I am expected to actually look at the dials in the conning tower, as a real captain would, to see my speed, depth, rudder angle, engine rpm, etc. I much preferred my old SH3 sub where dials would float in the air like the HUD on a modern fighter. It was much more "realistic".

Donitz: most disturbing.

Wagner: one additional point, herr admiral, in Sh5, I am expected to only deal with the officers and senior petty officers, as a real skipper does, instead of micromanaging each and every crew member as I had to do in SH3.

Donitz: I understand all your concerns, Wagner, but is'nt the whole point of a submarine simulation to put you in the same situation as a real life captain on a real life U-boat?

Wagner: With respect, herr admiral, the whole point of a submarine simulation is to be "realistic", not to simulate real life...


Realistic....

Wagner: I also love my Radar unit so I can spot those Liberty Class Cargo ships...they have so much more tonnage than the average ship!

Donitz: What...what Radar....we are researching such technology now..but it is years from coming about. And what is this...Liberty? ship?.....

Wagner: Nevermind...I forgot...its only 1939 and I shouldnt have radar yet and Liberty ships arent being built yet.

Ahh..well so much for realism.

[Faamecanic]

ROFL.... cross posting and QFT http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1121062387/m/5511054148

and a snippet

"WO, man the deck gun."

"MAN THE DECK GUN," the WO bellowed.

I ordered the deck gun crew to fire on the closest ships. After a few solid hits it began to sink. My first kill!

Without orders the deck gun crew began to fire on a 2nd merchant. "Whoa!" I shouted. "WO, secure the deck gun."

"MAN THE DECK GUN"

"No, secure it!"

"MAN THE DECK GUN

"Sailor! I order you to cease fire!"

"MAN THE DECK GUN"

"Christ! Nav officer, prepare to dive. What's our depth under keel!"

The Nav Officer again just stared at me. "Hello?" I said over the com. "Ah, forget it. Dive! All hands below, Secure the deck gun! Dive!"

"MAN THE DECK GUN"

Yeah, you stay here and take care of that

[pythos]

This is the serious bug that needs to go. I want commands added to the watch officer to not only man the guns but have control over targeting, and firing...ala, sh2 sh3 and sh4. Why they removed such functions is quite beyond my comprehension.

[GDFTigerTank]

You know, the OP nailed the gripes some people are having.

What the heck does simulation mean to some of you?

In SH5 you can give orders for the boat from ANY location, even outside the boat....JUST LIKE SH2,3, and 4!!!

The only issue I have is closing the hatch with the crew on bridge, that is really un-realistic.


You've obviously not been caught on the surface with a saved game file where a destroyer pops up 1500 yards -in broad daylight with not a cloud in the sky- from you because your crew morale is bugged to 0 and then it won't let you order a dive because you're standing on deck and so futilely make a run for the conn and then get to watch helplessly as you get rammed or gunned down :hmmm:

Or had your entire surprise night attack on a convoy blown because your deck gun randomly decides to open fire and/or won't cease firing. :hmmm:

Or tried to order your crew to rig for silent running and "red alert" and then be told that your entire crew refuses to comply because the XO is hurt. :hmmm:


Yes you're right, we're completely hypocritical in our desire for realism when we ask for these things and other things like that to be changed. :up:

/sarcasm off

[conus00]

:har:

[flymar]

@Captain Haplo

And your post is exactly what I had in mind. Certain unrealistic interface is just a handicap of real information flow. I wish it all was voice commanded but it isn't.
I must say that after a while I beginning to like this whole 'running' things. There's not so much of it. Deck, control room and periscope station, sometimes hydrophone. What I don't like about it that it's just halfway done. over 50 man on the boat and how many models.. 15? When I order crash dive I would want to see watch dropping down the ladders and some quick moves around the boat. I miss the old SH3 damage screen with little pump icons. I don't like the specific crew characters. I rather prefer to 'make my own story' and not stick with Hans, Franz and whatever-his-name.

[Ducimus]

Post title ..once upon a time in Nazi occupied France. reminds me of this:

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1808404206/video/11988602/standardformat/

:D

[Bilge_Rat]

Post title ..once upon a time in Nazi occupied France. reminds me of this:

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1808404206/video/11988602/standardformat/

:D

that was intentional...:arrgh!:

[Juliano]

@Captain Haplo
I don't like the specific crew characters. I rather prefer to 'make my own story' and not stick with Hans, Franz and whatever-his-name.

Yeah
I really miss the "randomness" of the previous games :cry:
Hope the modders are working on a new campaign modell like the old style one, that would be just great!

[col_Kurtz]

Does that mean the "B" in Type VIIB stands for "Beta"?
VIIA VIIB Absolute Beginners... What about type C?:hmmm: Casual?

[John Channing]

Does that mean the "B" in Type VIIB stands for "Beta"?

:D:D:D

[Piggy]

Funny, but I thought I would edit it on behalf of the people who can't play the game....

Kpt. Wagner is asked to attend a meeting with Admiral Donitz.


Donitz: good news, Wagner, based on your performance with the SH3 type VII-A, I am giving you command of the brand new SH5 type VII-C.

Wagner: herr admiral, I must respectfully decline.

Donitz: why?



Wagner: Im unable to connect to Berlin to verify I am Capt. Wagner, must be that fat slob churchhill's new secret weapon.

[Bilge_Rat]

You've obviously not been caught on the surface with a saved game file where a destroyer pops up 1500 yards -in broad daylight with not a cloud in the sky- from you because your crew morale is bugged to 0 and then it won't let you order a dive because you're standing on deck and so futilely make a run for the conn and then get to watch helplessly as you get rammed or gunned down :hmmm:

Or had your entire surprise night attack on a convoy blown because your deck gun randomly decides to open fire and/or won't cease firing. :hmmm:

Or tried to order your crew to rig for silent running and "red alert" and then be told that your entire crew refuses to comply because the XO is hurt. :hmmm:


Yes you're right, we're completely hypocritical in our desire for realism when we ask for these things and other things like that to be changed. :up:

/sarcasm off

quite correct, but these are bugs which will be dealt with by the developpers in patches or by modders.

SH3 also had its share of bugs, like the crew fatigue bug, the super deck gun, the infaillible WO (the target is at 1234 meters, travelling at 4.79 knots, AOB of 62.5 degrees..:o), the laser Auto TDC, the infamous red triangle :/\\k:,etc, etc.

And of course, there are some traditions to uphold whenever any new subsim is launched:

the "this game is no good" thread:

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB_archive1/viewtopic.php?t=30683

the "Ubi is going down the drain" thread:

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB_archive1/viewtopic.php?t=30701&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

the "the reason I wont buy this sim" thread:

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB_archive1/viewtopic.php?t=30700

the "the AI has a problem" thread:

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB_archive1/viewtopic.php?t=31195


It's déjà vu all over again! :arrgh!:

[Safe-Keeper]

"Captain!", cried Number One, "enemy destroyer dead ahead!". Gott im Himmel, I thought as I staggered out of my captain's bunk. "I thought you had our radio guy call up our spy sats to reveal all targets in our immediate 2000 km radius!". "We did", came the reply at once, "but apparently this one spawned after that!". "Very well", I replied, and wanting to ensure I had a full overview of the tactical situation at hand, I made sure to add, "how is your family?". "Oh, my kids are rascals", he told me, gaining a point of morale, "and I'm so proud of them, members of the old stock!". I hesitated to ask him what the hell "members of the old stock" meant, but that'd probably just cause me to lose even more Leadership Points, so I declined. "All right, then", I said instead", "Number One, take us to 20m and engage the Mk. III Silent Running cloaking device! Oh, and sonar dude, I need a bearing to target and the latest gossip on the new lieutenant!"

"Engaging cloaking device. Sonar dude reports destroyer is at 23 degrees and closing fast, and that the lieutenant is an stuck-up twat!". I breathed a sigh of relief -- employing Silent Running protected our subs from hydrophones, eyeballs and scanners through the use of state-of-the-art technology from our Klingon allies in the Mediterranean. Sure enough, the Destroyer passed above, only a few metres from us, realized the hopelessness of further scanning, and turned to leave. Now to counter-attack before she went to Ridiculous Speed. Taking the sub to 10 metres, I got a lock on the Destroyer, and its data was calculated by our advanced targeting computer (which was handled by the same mainframe that generated the endless food supply the chef had at his disposal with advanced nano technology). In a second, I knew just how to fire the torps to hit, and hit we did -- two massive fireball shot out of the hulls, and the ship was engulfed in flames!

"Direct hits", our android weapon officer cried. "But she's still moving as if nothing had happened", I protested. "She must've seen our torpedoes coming and raised her deflection shields!", Number One replied. "Worse yet, she seems to have an all-android crew", I added, "they're walking around on deck as if the flames weren't even there!". Damnit, damnit, damnit, this was not good. What would they throw at us next, armed patrol planes?

"Wait a minute, captain", came a voice from the torpedo room, and I jogged over there to see what was going on. It was the weapons dude. "I could try to reroute the currents from the torpedoes' fusion power plants. This will destabilize their Thomsen fields, causing heavy sub-ionic radiation and rendering them highly likely to hyper-atomic breakdown or premature detonation -- but it will increase their fire-power tremendously, and they should work just fine at close range!". Make it so", I replied curtly, and noted that the poor guy lost two morale points from my rude demeanour. Scheizze, I thought, it's just not fair, why does Kommandant Picard get away with being such an arrogant dog's ****?

Nevertheless, ten seconds later we were at Awesome Speed Forward, getting the destroyer back into view. We fired the torps, which overpowered the ship's shields and blew her up spectacularly, and that is how we came to sink our first Federation destroyer. Commanding a u-boat is a pain at times, but for all of its flaws, I must say I love WWII technology. Next I'll tell you all about our laser-guided HE rounds, which allow us to bombard targets from four kilometres away:up:.

--Captain's log, date five seventeen, one nine four one, off the coast of England.

Grew tired of the stupid trolls, and wanted to bitch about the game in a more advanced way than spamming "SH5 sux" threads and derailing unrelated threads with one-liners.

[CaptainHaplo]

I actually understand the point of the post - and I am not saying the game sux. However - the GUI does leave a lot to be desired. In your example - at the least you have 2-3 clicks to steer to a specified course. With the older gui, its one click done. Which is more realistic - yelling "Steer thataway" where thataway is a specified course heading - or running over to the map, pointing to a position - and saying "take me there" in the heat of battle? With the older interface - both were OPTIONS - and for a player - options are good. With the new gui - they took one option away.

Sure the map waypoint system is great for navigation - but its lousy for combat ops. In combat, every second counts - and an interface that allows for immediate action is great.

Also - same thing on depth control - a single click is equal to "take us to 25 meters" - but to be honest I never did figure out how to specify depth - I had to manually babysit my depth with the current clunky control system.

[Morpheus]

Wanna taste my soup, Herr Admiral? :har:

[Bilge_Rat]

"Captain!", cried Number One, "enemy destroyer dead ahead!". Gott im Himmel, I thought as I staggered out of my captain's bunk. "I thought you had our radio guy call up our spy sats to reveal all targets in our immediate 2000 km radius!". "We did", came the reply at once, "but apparently this one spawned after that!". "Very well", I replied, and wanting to ensure I had a full overview of the tactical situation at hand, I made sure to add, "how is your family?". "Oh, my kids are rascals", he told me, gaining a point of morale, "and I'm so proud of them, members of the old stock!". I hesitated to ask him what the hell "members of the old stock" meant, but that'd probably just cause me to lose even more Leadership Points, so I declined. "All right, then", I said instead", "Number One, take us to 20m and engage the Mk. III Silent Running cloaking device! Oh, and sonar dude, I need a bearing to target and the latest gossip on the new lieutenant!"

"Engaging cloaking device. Sonar dude reports destroyer is at 23 degrees and closing fast, and that the lieutenant is an stuck-up twat!". I breathed a sigh of relief -- employing Silent Running protected our subs from hydrophones, eyeballs and scanners through the use of state-of-the-art technology from our Klingon allies in the Mediterranean. Sure enough, the Destroyer passed above, only a few metres from us, realized the hopelessness of further scanning, and turned to leave. Now to counter-attack before she went to Ridiculous Speed. Taking the sub to 10 metres, I got a lock on the Destroyer, and its data was calculated by our advanced targeting computer (which was handled by the same mainframe that generated the endless food supply the chef had at his disposal with advanced nano technology). In a second, I knew just how to fire the torps to hit, and hit we did -- two massive fireball shot out of the hulls, and the ship was engulfed in flames!

"Direct hits", our android weapon officer cried. "But she's still moving as if nothing had happened", I protested. "She must've seen our torpedoes coming and raised her deflection shields!", Number One replied. "Worse yet, she seems to have an all-android crew", I added, "they're walking around on deck as if the flames weren't even there!". Damnit, damnit, damnit, this was not good. What would they throw at us next, armed patrol planes?

"Wait a minute, captain", came a voice from the torpedo room, and I jogged over there to see what was going on. It was the weapons dude. "I could try to reroute the currents from the torpedoes' fusion power plants. This will destabilize their Thomsen fields, causing heavy sub-ionic radiation and rendering them highly likely to hyper-atomic breakdown or premature detonation -- but it will increase their fire-power tremendously, and they should work just fine at close range!". Make it so", I replied curtly, and noted that the poor guy lost two morale points from my rude demeanour. Scheizze, I thought, it's just not fair, why does Kommandant Picard get away with being such an arrogant dog's ****?

Nevertheless, ten seconds later we were at Awesome Speed Forward, getting the destroyer back into view. We fired the torps, which overpowered the ship's shields and blew her up spectacularly, and that is how we came to sink our first Federation destroyer. Commanding a u-boat is a pain at times, but for all of its flaws, I must say I love WWII technology. Next I'll tell you all about our laser-guided HE rounds, which allow us to bombard targets from four kilometres away:up:.

--Captain's log, date five seventeen, one nine four one, off the coast of England.

Grew tired of the stupid trolls, and wanted to bitch about the game in a more advanced way than spamming "SH5 sux" threads and derailing unrelated threads with one-liners.

good one , but SH3 was not that bad, it had some good points. :arrgh!:

[Faamecanic]

good one , but SH3 was not that bad, it had some good points. :arrgh!:

True.... like you could actually PLAY SH3 when you wanted to?

or the UI was at least somewhat useful during combat?

or there were no Liberty Cargo ships until well after the americans entered the war :nope:

SH5 is full of advanced features (some nice, some not so nice, most of them broke). Its full of stupidity that should have been caught in ALPHA testing (really ....radar in 1939?). And just garbage that should have never made it past Beta (having to reset your difficulty settings everytime you re-enter the game).

Sorry but there has been a steady progression of "how much unfinished poo poo can we release this time" since SH3. It has got worse and worse with each release. IF Ubi ever does a SH6 I would be surprised if half the sub is still in wireframe, and the crew detonates torpedos inside the sub just for giggles.

[Gilbou]

Raise shields !

Increase power to the shields ! (*)

Khaaaaaaannnnnnn !!!!

:salute:

(*) don't you love those realities where any problem can be solved by pumping more power into.. anything ? :rotfl2:

[Commie]

How about scratching the combat and making it a submarine simulation with combat included, eh?

There is more to immerse oneself in a boat but mere fighting =)

Well for you there is Virtual Skipper. For people that play war simulations there should be 'warring'. Alternatively you can lobby for a pre-war submarine simulator where you can accurately in 1:1 time replicate shakedown cruises and training patrols in 1938.

[Baleur]

I agree =) :salute:

[Baleur]

Raise shields !

Increase power to the shields ! (*)

Khaaaaaaannnnnnn !!!!

:salute:

(*) don't you love those realities where any problem can be solved by pumping more power into.. anything ? :rotfl2:

Hah! Yes i love it!
I also love when ANY problem or ANY technical plot hole can be filled by simply inventing some new theories and gadgets nobody can argue with!

"Captain! Our warp drive is offline! We're gonna die!"

"Thats ok! Increase power to the flux capacitors, then reverse polarity of our tractor beam, suck up the energy from the enemy phasers, reroute the power through the kitchen stove to increase the magnitute of the waveform through the subspace strings (with ketchup!).
That ought to get our warp engines back online!"

"O....o.okay...okay captain! Will try!"

Everything has a solution! :yeah:

[Safe-Keeper]

I also love when ANY problem or ANY technical plot hole can be filled by simply inventing some new theories and gadgets nobody can argue with!It's like Gyro Gearloose in the Donald Duck universe: need to go into space? He'll whip up a rocket and spacesuits in five minutes.

Yet for all his genius and apparent ability to build the most wonderful things out of... well, nothing, surprisingly he's not world-famous. You'd think there'd be a mile-long line of people outside his workshop at all times, wanting their own little "light bulb with arms and legs" assistant, space shuttle, time machine, or teleporter.

Nobody understands my genius, he probably thinks every night, as he gets drunk and wonders why he didn't just become a ne'er-do-well like Donald Duck.

[Bilge_Rat]

True.... like you could actually PLAY SH3 when you wanted to?

I have never had any problem logging on and playing when I want to...must lead a charmed life.

or the UI was at least somewhat useful during combat?

as useful as the one in SH3. All the info you need is there.

or there were no Liberty Cargo ships until well after the americans entered the war :nope:

no, they just had friendly escorts engaging in firefights...:rotfl2::rotfl2:

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB_archive1/viewtopic.php?t=31195

etc., etc., etc.

look we could keep up this childish "MY sim is better that YOUR sim!" business going for a long time, the truth is that SH3 had issues when it came out which was addressed by patches and modders, turning it into the fine sim that it now.

There is already a core group of players and modders working on improving SH5 and I have no doubt we will see some patches as well.

I am a hard core subsimmer. I have played every SH from SH1 to SH5, all of them eventually on 100% realism. I have read extensively on WW2 naval warfare and submarine warfare, both in the Pacific and the Atlantic. Do you really think I would be wasting my time on SH5 if it was a "arkady piece of junk"?