"The Pacific"

[Torvald Von Mansee]

It finally premieres tomorrow night at 2100, -5 GMT. Anyone psyched?

[Safe-Keeper]

Incredibly. Saw a short trailer somewhere, and it had (hold on tight) US marines running onto a beach from landing craft under artillery fire! And there was a shot of the ramp going down, seen from the marines' point of view, just as some officer yelled something cool!

I mean, who's ever seen any of that before:yeah:?!

[SgtPotato]

[deleted]

I'm not trying to "advertise" about torrenting. I'm just saying that I don't have HBO

[Morts]

you sure you want to advertise with that SgtPotato ?

[August]

Incredibly. Saw a short trailer somewhere, and it had (hold on tight) US marines running onto a beach from landing craft under artillery fire! And there was a shot of the ramp going down, seen from the marines' point of view, just as some officer yelled something cool!

I mean, who's ever seen any of that before:yeah:?!

Yeah a landing craft scene in a Pacific war movie. What cheek!

[Safe-Keeper]

Isn't advertising that you're using cracks or illegally downloaded films/games ground for a permaban here?

[Oberon]

Spud, I'd retract that if I were you.

In other news, IIRC it's only on Sky Movies over here which is annoying, but if I encounter it on normal Sky then damn, you bet I'm going to watch it. :rock:

[Freiwillige]

Yea I would love to see it but dont have HBO and am not going to get financially raped to watch it. Ill see it when it gets released on DVD.

[Jimbuna]

Really looking forward to it :yeah:

[kiwi_2005]

Hell yeah this is one ive been waiting for since i first seen the ad on TV. Its going to be aired in NZ in about a month's time. Cunning they air the Band of Brothers series atm to get us in the mood while during commercials breaks they tease us with The Pacific ads. 3rd time round ive seen Band of Brothers and never get sick of it. We have this new thing called onDemand where we can go online connect to TVNZ site and watch the series all over again if we want. Any series already shown on TV.

[August]

This is a pretty good Naval website by itself but it also has a good plot synopsis for the first two Pacific episodes:

http://www.usni.org/thepacific/

BTW check out the books being advertised. I may have to fire up the Credit Card...

[bookworm_020]

Looking forward to when it airs here in Australia!:yeah:

[TarJak]

Same here April release down under so not so long to wait. Nice to see it on free to air as well! Channel 7 had something to do with the production.

http://au.tv.yahoo.com/news/article/-/article/6828454/epic-new-series-the-pacific/

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Looking forward to when it airs here in Australia!:yeah:

Same here April release down under so not so long to wait. Nice to see it on free to air as well! Channel 7 had something to do with the production.

http://au.tv.yahoo.com/news/article/-/article/6828454/epic-new-series-the-pacific/

It was originally supposed to air in Australia first, in December. I guess it got delayed because they didn't want pirated versions floating around before it aired, elsewhere.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

I think it would be cool if the same team which made BoB/TP would do the same thing w/a different country.

[XabbaRus]

I'll have to wait till it is out on DVD as I refise to get sky.

I pay enough for a normal TV licence why would I want to pay more to sky for a ton of channels I won't watch.

Shame as it looks good. The BBC should have got into that one like they did with BoB. (Band of Brothers)

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Anyone in the D.C. area? Hugh Ambrose (I guess the son of Stephen) will be at the Tyson's Corner Barnes & Noble (the one you can see in the mall as you pass on the Beltway) at 7 pm on Wedsday to talk about "The Pacific" and sign the companion book to it.

It was fairly good, btw. I need to see more.

[August]

Well just watched the first episode. Not bad but character development was kind of skimpy. I would have liked to see a Camp Toccoa type episode like in Band of Brothers.

[nikimcbee]

Well just watched the first episode. Not bad but character development was kind of skimpy. I would have liked to see a Camp Toccoa type episode like in Band of Brothers.
I agree. So far, I'd say BoB 1, Pacific 0. Hopefully all of the next episode is about guadalcanal, or I'll be pretty dissapointed. I'd give it a 7 out of 10.:-? They need more interview's with vets that were there. 9 episodes to go.

[mookiemookie]

It was a bit jarring to be in America, then all of a sudden everyone's at Guadalcanal. No boot camp scene hurt in this regard.

Still, well done. I agree with niki - BoB 1, P 0

[Torvald Von Mansee]

It was a bit jarring to be in America, then all of a sudden everyone's at Guadalcanal. No boot camp scene hurt in this regard.

Still, well done. I agree with niki - BoB 1, P 0

Weren't pretty much all the Marines on Guadalcanal already in the regular USMC, and their boot camp would have been well in the past?

Still, I see your point.

[nikimcbee]

It was a bit jarring to be in America, then all of a sudden everyone's at Guadalcanal. No boot camp scene hurt in this regard.

Still, well done. I agree with niki - BoB 1, P 0

It's not bad, but the story needs waaay more development. You'd think they could find more (real, living) marines to follow their lives, as they did in BoB. Plus, I wonder who's idea it was to play target practice with the Jap soldier?:down: Seemed silly to me. The after battle scene was good with the bodies out in the sand, just like Ichiki's attack and the real photos of the battle. I'll probably nit-pick the guadalcanal stuff to pieces, as that is my favorite WW2 battle.

[August]

Weren't pretty much all the Marines on Guadalcanal already in the regular USMC, and their boot camp would have been well in the past?

Still, I see your point.

Guadalcanal was fought mostly by those who volunteered right after Pearl Harbor.

[Camaero]

Guadalcanal was fought mostly by those who volunteered right after Pearl Harbor.

That would have been interesting to see boot camp from their perspective yeah? Too bad. Oh well... it still looks like it will be good, though maybe it wont beat BoB.

[nikimcbee]

That would have been interesting to see boot camp from their perspective yeah? Too bad. Oh well... it still looks like it will be good, though maybe it wont beat BoB.

@camaero: long time, no see: good to have you back.:up:

[Camaero]

@camaero: long time, no see: good to have you back.:up:

Thanks mate! ;)

I doubt I could ever stay away for *too* long.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Guadalcanal was fought mostly by those who volunteered right after Pearl Harbor.

Ah, I see it commenced in August of '42. I suppose that's enough time to get guys through the pipeline.

[sharkbit]

Ah, I see it commenced in August of '42. I suppose that's enough time to get guys through the pipeline.

Robert Leckie, who I guess is represented in the series and wrote a book about his experiences (Helmet for My Pillow), joined after Pearl Harbor and was involved in the Guadalcanal campaign, New Britain(??? can't remember for sure-it's been a while since I read the book), and Pelileu.

His book is excellent and worth the read. He does detail his boot camp experiences quite well.

Eugene Sledge is represented in the series too. He came after Guadalcanal.
His book(With the Old Breed) is very good. He took part in the Pelileu and Okinawa campaigns.
His descriptions of the conditions on Okinawa will remove any thoughts that someone might have about there being "glory in war".

[ReFaN]

6 months until it airs in sweden. DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOH!

[Penguin]

about 749 years till it airs in Germany - not even announced yet.
You Swedes are lucky to have non-dubbed shows! :up:
ReFaN look here: http://thepacific.se/the-pacific-till-canal-och-svt/ - it will air next month on pay-tv (canal+)

So doesn't the series follow real characters? I thought it is based on the memoirs of two marines.

thanks for the recommendation, sharkbit, i will definitely take a look into the book by Eugene Sledge, it's only 5,60 Euros here - sounds like a good buy!

[sharkbit]

So doesn't the series follow real characters? I thought it is based on the memoirs of two marines.

thanks for the recommendation, sharkbit, i will definitely take a look into the book by Eugene Sledge, it's only 5,60 Euros here - sounds like a good buy!

I haven't seen any of the series(don't have HBO), but, from what I've read about the series, I thought it was supposed to be based on the experiences of Leckie, Sledge, and Basilone.
Hollywoodized, of course.

:)

[OneToughHerring]

I wonder if there is a Japanese version of "Pacific", a tv-series or something. Not one that would praise the emperor etc. but show the human side of the war from the perspective of a Japanese foot soldier.

[mookiemookie]

I haven't seen any of the series(don't have HBO), but, from what I've read about the series, I thought it was supposed to be based on the experiences of Leckie, Sledge, and Basilone.
Hollywoodized, of course.

:)

HBO was offering a free 3 month deal through my cable provider. Might be worth a call to see if they're doing that in your area as well.

And you can watch episode 1 of The Pacific for free on www.hbo.com (http://www.hbo.com) :up:

[August]

I wonder if there is a Japanese version of "Pacific", a tv-series or something. Not one that would praise the emperor etc. but show the human side of the war from the perspective of a Japanese foot soldier.

It's a movie not a TV series but try "Letters from Iwo Jima" It's very good.

[frau kaleun]

I wonder if there is a Japanese version of "Pacific", a tv-series or something. Not one that would praise the emperor etc. but show the human side of the war from the perspective of a Japanese foot soldier.

Not new by any means, and I haven't seen it yet (it's somewhere in my Netflix queue), but Masaki Kobayashi's 1959 trilogy The Human Condition (http://www.criterion.com/films/2106-the-human-condition) comes highly recommended.


Masaki Kobayashi’s mammoth humanist drama is one of the most staggering achievements of Japanese cinema. Originally filmed and released in three parts, the nine-and-a-half-hour The Human Condition (Ningen no joken), adapted from Junpei Gomikawa’s six-volume novel, tells of the journey of the well-intentioned yet naive Kaji (handsome Japanese superstar Tatsuya Nakadai) from labor camp supervisor to Imperial Army soldier to Soviet POW. Constantly trying to rise above a corrupt system, Kaji time and again finds his morals an impediment rather than an advantage. A raw indictment of its nation’s wartime mentality as well as a personal existential tragedy, Kobayashi’s riveting, gorgeously filmed epic is novelistic cinema at its best.


And Letters From Iwo Jima is also worth checking out, as August suggested. Companion piece to Eastwood's Flags of Our Fathers, done from the point of view of the Japanese soldiers.

[OneToughHerring]

Oh yes, the Eastwood film about the Iwo Jima - battle. I've heard that it's pretty good. I saw the part about Americans, it was good.

I've actually heard about the Human Condition - trilogy, if I understood correctly it's a kind of a anti-socialism/Soviet Union - type of film. Not very surprising coming from the post-war (or before war) Japanese.

A recommendation of my own, I've read a book and seen a film called Fires on the plains (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fires_on_the_Plain_%28film%29). Really hard hitting stuff, takes place in the Phillippines. Cannibalism etc. Although it's written by Shohei Ooka who was a soldier in the war it doesn't spare the Japanese at all.

[August]

A recommendation of my own, I've read a book and seen a film called Fires on the plains (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fires_on_the_Plain_%28film%29). Really hard hitting stuff, takes place in the Phillippines. Cannibalism etc. Although it's written by Shohei Ooka who was a soldier in the war it doesn't spare the Japanese at all.

I have that on dvd. What a sad story.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

It's a movie not a TV series but try "Letters from Iwo Jima" It's very good.

It was # 1 at the box office in Japan for five weeks. I guess they liked it.

[sharkbit]

It's a movie not a TV series but try "Letters from Iwo Jima" It's very good.

Good movie and a very good book.
The book is titled "So Sad to Fall in Battle". It is based on the letters from General Kuribayashi, commanding general on Iwo Jima, to his wife and kids.
Really puts a human face on the whole ordeal.

I always thought that the movie and book did a good job showing the Japanese soldier as a human being and not as some fanatical automaton willing to die for the Emperor.

:)

[Torvald Von Mansee]

6 months until it airs in sweden. DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOH!

If only there were some other way to acquire it!! :arrgh!:

[Hans Schultz]

second episode is on tonight! I'm looking forward to the series but after the first episode I have some reservations..

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Well, what's happening in the episode RIGHT NOW is pretty intense.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Well, what's happening in the episode RIGHT NOW is pretty intense.

OK, I think this where Basilone gets the MOH

[bookworm_020]

They are running teaser trailers here in Australia, just saying it's "comming soon"! Might be quicker to buy it and ship it from the states!:hmmm:

[Bubblehead1980]

great show so far, the ending of episode 1 cracked me up(when they were singing happy birthday to sid phillips) lol Episode 2's battle scenes were very well done and very intense, A+ so far.

[Bubblehead1980]

boot camp will be in around episode 3 or 4 I believe when Eugene Sledge enlists, read an episode guide somewhere.This show isnt band of brothers and I like that(even though I loved BOB), it's fresh and well done and the battle scenes so far are much more intense.Different war in the PTO than ETO.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

great show so far, the ending of episode 1 cracked me up(when they were singing happy birthday to sid phillips) lol Episode 2's battle scenes were very well done and very intense, A+ so far.

I thought that scene was more intense than anything in BoB (though nothing beats the first half hour of Saving Private Ryan)

[Bubblehead1980]

I agree the battle scenes were more intense than BOB and not taking anything from the ETO(great grandfather served there as officer in Army, went ashore on D-Day, still alive and turns 91 soon) but the PTO was a different type of war in every way, different enemy.The Japanese fought different than the Germans.Saving Private Ryan's battle scenes, esp the D-Day part was very intense.My grandfather said it was the most realistic depiction he has seen on film, loved BOB also and likes The Pacific so far.

I am thinking when they get to Peleliu, Iwo Jima and Okinawa, The Pacific battle scenes may even surpass Saving Private Ryan, will have to see.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

I agree the battle scenes were more intense than BOB and not taking anything from the ETO(great grandfather served there as officer in Army, went ashore on D-Day, still alive and turns 91 soon) but the PTO was a different type of war in every way, different enemy.The Japanese fought different than the Germans.Saving Private Ryan's battle scenes, esp the D-Day part was very intense.My grandfather said it was the most realistic depiction he has seen on film, loved BOB also and likes The Pacific so far.

I am thinking when they get to Peleliu, Iwo Jima and Okinawa, The Pacific battle scenes may even surpass Saving Private Ryan, will have to see.

For some weird reason, I always thought the PTO was more interesting than the ETO.

Strange thing I saw, today: a Chemistry.com commercial w/the actor who plays Basilone. Weird.

[nikimcbee]

I enjoyed episode 2 much more. The parts that I liked: The marines pillaging the army supplies during the air raid:haha:. The air battles and naval bombardment, and stepping up the fighting.

On a side note, I'm surprised how much swearing (F-word) there is. I'm curious if marines back then had such foul mouths? I only bring this up, because two of the vets from BoB said that was the biggest inaccuracy in BoB was all the swearing. He said they didn't swear that much (compared to now) I kinda think its just HBO and our times.:doh: But the racial language is a different story:haha:. You stoopid Mick, I hope you got your luger.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

I enjoyed episode 2 much more. The parts that I liked: The marines pillaging the army supplies during the air raid:haha:. The air battles and naval bombardment, and stepping up the fighting.

On a side note, I'm surprised how much swearing (F-word) there is. I'm curious if marines back then had such foul mouths? I only bring this up, because two of the vets from BoB said that was the biggest inaccuracy in BoB was all the swearing. He said they didn't swear that much (compared to now) I kinda think its just HBO and our times.:doh: But the racial language is a different story:haha:. You stoopid Mick, I hope you got your luger.

I remember the scene where they broke open the crate and saw all the M1s and then whine about their obsolete weaponry. I think a Marine w/a Springfield would be far more effective on the battlefield than an Army grunt w/a Garand.

[August]

I remember the scene where they broke open the crate and saw all the M1s and then whine about their obsolete weaponry. I think a Marine w/a Springfield would be far more effective on the battlefield than an Army grunt w/a Garand.

Now what makes you think that?

[Torvald Von Mansee]

now what makes you think that?

practice practice practice!!!!!

[August]

practice practice practice!!!!!

:)

Seriously though I wonder how useful they would actually have been in the hands of a Marine. I mean at the time they had no experience with the Garand at all. No training in its operation or maintenance or even any practice firing it. Nor did they have more than a very limited supply of the 8 round clips required to feed the Garand even if they could figure out how to make it work.

You saw that night battle. That was no place to be with an unfamiliar weapon!

[Torvald Von Mansee]

:)

Seriously though I wonder how useful they would actually have been in the hands of a Marine. I mean at the time they had no experience with the Garand at all. No training in its operation or maintenance or even any practice firing it. Nor did they have more than a very limited supply of the 8 round clips required to feed the Garand even if they could figure out how to make it work.

You saw that night battle. That was no place to be with an unfamiliar weapon!

Well...I'd think in a night battle you'd require volume of fire over all else. You can't aim at something you can't see!!! But there is still the problem of a finite ammo supply (something Basilone had a hand in ameliorating).

I think the next time I'm at Arlington National Cemetery, I'm going to leave something at Basilone's grave. Flowers don't seem appropriate. Maybe a rock. A huge rock. Maybe a couple of them!! :D

[Weiss Pinguin]

Yeah, I'm loving the series so far. The bit with Peaches and Old Faithful has to be my favorite part of the series yet. :rotfl2:

Dunno about ep. 3 though, but I guess I'll see.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

There was a lot of thrusting into foreign territory this past episode.

[August]

There was a lot of thrusting into foreign territory this past episode.

Hollywood just can't make a picture without a love interest. :nope:

Unless the rest of the episodes are literally spectacular The Pacific will not approach the excellence of Band of Brothers in my opinion.

[Weiss Pinguin]

Well, BoB had a quick scene, but then again they didn't have a whole episode dedicated to it. :88) Can't wait to get on to the next one.

[tater]

I'm liking it, even the episode in Australia, actually.

First thing I noticed at some point was a Marine with a Thompson, and I was thinking they'd not be all that accurate, then next episode, the Tommy gun was rare, and the rest had proper Marine SMGs (the Reising).

Other than the lack of Marine artillery (and the envelopment) Alligator Creek was OK, too.

I was also sad that they paid no attention to the Marine and Navy pilots that played no small role in saving the day at Guadalcanal. Minus those F4Fs, SBDs, and a smattering of other types like Army P-400s, the situation would have been VASTLY different. The IJN was there, but only at night due to fear of air attack.

[Egan]

I enjoyed episode 2 much more. The parts that I liked: The marines pillaging the army supplies during the air raid:haha:. The air battles and naval bombardment, and stepping up the fighting.

On a side note, I'm surprised how much swearing (F-word) there is. I'm curious if marines back then had such foul mouths? I only bring this up, because two of the vets from BoB said that was the biggest inaccuracy in BoB was all the swearing. He said they didn't swear that much (compared to now) I kinda think its just HBO and our times.:doh: But the racial language is a different story:haha:. You stoopid Mick, I hope you got your luger.


In a defence of his war memoirs following critisism by Clive James, Spike Milligan said that he had added quite a bit of dialogue to what really happened because otherwise there would be very little other than swearing. Mind you, he was in a battery of mostly working class boys from London. If I was an old vet I might not want my grand kids and great grandkids thinking I swore like a trooper....'Swear like a trooper' - I wonder where that came from?

Yeah, I think there was quite a lot. Good for them, too; a good burst of fiery Ango-Saxon just what the Doctor ordered on many, many occasions. :salute:

[Sailor Steve]

Well, when I was in we swore like...sailors! But never around ladies or children, or in any kind of polite society. You kept it separate. It was considered a badge of sailorhood to be able to string whole sentences of nothing but swear words.

I'm amazed at how casual it is these days.

[Jimbuna]

Well, when I was in we swore like...sailors! But never around ladies or children, or in any kind of polite society. You kept it separate. It was considered a badge of sailorhood to be able to string whole sentences of nothing but swear words.

I'm amazed at how casual it is these days.

Could never imagine you swearing profusely Steve :hmmm:

Now us coppers :DL

[nikimcbee]

Hollywood just can't make a picture without a love interest. :nope:

Unless the rest of the episodes are literally spectacular The Pacific will not approach the excellence of Band of Brothers in my opinion.

Episode 3: This sums up the whole episode:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxvdvoQgAy8

:O: I think Dowly would approve. :)

[Weiss Pinguin]

Episode 3: This sums up the whole episode:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxvdvoQgAy8

:O: I think Dowly would approve. :)
:rotfl2:

[Jimbuna]

LMAO :rotfl2:

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Episode 3: This sums up the whole episode:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxvdvoQgAy8

:O: I think Dowly would approve. :)

That pretty much sums it up!!!

[Bubblehead1980]

I'm liking it, even the episode in Australia, actually.

First thing I noticed at some point was a Marine with a Thompson, and I was thinking they'd not be all that accurate, then next episode, the Tommy gun was rare, and the rest had proper Marine SMGs (the Reising).

Other than the lack of Marine artillery (and the envelopment) Alligator Creek was OK, too.

I was also sad that they paid no attention to the Marine and Navy pilots that played no small role in saving the day at Guadalcanal. Minus those F4Fs, SBDs, and a smattering of other types like Army P-400s, the situation would have been VASTLY different. The IJN was there, but only at night due to fear of air attack.


Are you saying the Marines did not use the thompson submachine gun? pretty sure that is wrong, read several books including Eugene Sledge's with the Old Breed recently, which The Pacific is partially based on, he mentions carrying a Thompson many times.

[Bubblehead1980]

Episode 3: This sums up the whole episode:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxvdvoQgAy8

:O: I think Dowly would approve. :)

haha nice one, love that movie! RIP Rodney

[Bubblehead1980]

Just figured I would throw this out there for some people.The Pacific is NOT supposed to be Band of Brothers.BOB was a great show but was about a different war(yes WW II but ETO and PTO were very different), branch of service and unit.Thus far the show has covered Guadalcanal, but not only the fighting but how they had to live on very little for a while on a hot, miserable south pacific island.Episode 3 was not my favorite but they showed something that was very common during the war, US Marines, Sailors, Soldiers etc meeting Aussie women and having affairs, relationships etc Some stayed after the war, some took their brides home, some just had their fun since the war was on.The Pacific is showing this side of the war via Leckie, same reason they show the drinking etc This is part of the story.I think they overdid the sex scenes a bit but it is hollywood.Still a great show so far and believe the next ones will be even better.Episode 4 is where Sledge comes in, he goes to boot camp.Some of the major battles are still to come and I anticipate they will be some great battle scenes, Guadalcanal battle scenes were great and must say, were more intense than BOB but again it was a different war.Cape Gloucester/New Britain, Peleliu, Iwo Jima and Okinawa are still to come and maybe some others the episode guide I read did not mention.

Bottom line, The Pacific is not BOB and is not supposed to do.Have to watch the show with an open mind.Hopefully, if they do another WW II type series, they will do US subs in PTO, would great, esp with the great memoirs out there.

[August]

The Pacific is NOT supposed to be Band of Brothers.

It was billed as the sequel to BoB for years.

But I think the main problem with the series is not about differing locations or even over doing the love interest side plot. It's about the lack of character development and the disjointed story line making it difficult to get into it.

BoB had a flow to it. The viewer was taken along with the characters on a journey that had a beginning, a middle and an end.

So far in the Pacific we have main characters yet to leave home, those that are going home and those that are on leave waiting for the next battle. There is no rhythm to engage the viewer.

[Weiss Pinguin]

Are you saying the Marines did not use the thompson submachine gun? pretty sure that is wrong, read several books including Eugene Sledge's with the Old Breed recently, which The Pacific is partially based on, he mentions carrying a Thompson many times.
Until the Thompson submachine gun and M1 carbine became more plentiful, Marines were issued the M50 Reising. You can see John Basilone carrying one at the beginning of Part 2.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Until the Thompson submachine gun and M1 carbine became more plentiful, Marines were issued the M50 Reising. You can see John Basilone carrying one at the beginning of Part 2.

My favorite American weapon of ww2: the m3 grease gun.

[August]

My favorite American weapon of ww2: the m3 grease gun.

I carried one for awhile back in the late 1970's. It looked cool but it was heavy, uncomfortable to carry for long periods and difficult to control even for just a three round burst.

[nikimcbee]

After 3 episodes, my opinion is that the whole thing seemed rushed. No real time to develope the characters.

[Weiss Pinguin]

I think it's just that they try to keep up with too many characters, most of whom aren't together most of the time. Band of Brothers was focused on one company, and generally every episode was focused on a couple of soldiers instead of keeping track of several people from different units.

Just my thoughts anyways. I'm still liking the show, though, and I'd much rather have this than most of the other junk floating around TV for most of the day ;)

[tater]

Are you saying the Marines did not use the thompson submachine gun? pretty sure that is wrong, read several books including Eugene Sledge's with the Old Breed recently, which The Pacific is partially based on, he mentions carrying a Thompson many times.

No, some did carry the Thompson, particularly later in the war. The Reising was more common, however, particularly early in the war (just like the Marines started the war with the A3 03.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

I carried one for awhile back in the late 1970's. It looked cool but it was heavy, uncomfortable to carry for long periods and difficult to control even for just a three round burst.

I have heard from others that loading up the magazines was murder on your thumb unless you had a certain loading thingie.

What WOULD be the best personal small arm of WW2? The StG/MP 44? Though I think the Ppsh was also pretty damn awesome.

I found this amusing image of a Ppsh w/a scope:

http://www.ppsh41.com/Ppsh-ir.jpg

[August]

I have heard from others that loading up the magazines was murder on your thumb unless you had a certain loading thingie.

What WOULD be the best personal small arm of WW2? The StG/MP 44? Though I think the Ppsh was also pretty damn awesome.

I found this amusing image of a Ppsh w/a scope:

http://www.ppsh41.com/Ppsh-ir.jpg

I had forgotten about loading the mags. Thanks for bringing back the horrible memory! :DL


I'd have to go with the StG/MP 44 because it was billed as the first Assault Weapon. As such it's not really in the same class as SMGs like the Thompson and the Ppsh.

The SMG's, because they use pistol rounds, suffer from a lack of range and power. Also they can also shoot only in full auto which isn't conducive to making aimed shots. The select fire Sturm with it's 7.92x33mm round has none of those problems.

[OneToughHerring]

I have heard from others that loading up the magazines was murder on your thumb unless you had a certain loading thingie.

What WOULD be the best personal small arm of WW2? The StG/MP 44? Though I think the Ppsh was also pretty damn awesome.

I found this amusing image of a Ppsh w/a scope:

http://www.ppsh41.com/Ppsh-ir.jpg

That's actually a night sight. Germans also used night sights. Not sure why you would find that funny. The PPsh-41 was able to shoot single fire so aimed shots were possible. Not that it was the most accurate weapon but in a right place at night time I wouldn't want to be the German who ran across that.

Edit. That's actually a prototype, not necessarily used in the war. The German Vampir - night sight system was even more bulky.

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/articles/images/vampir.jpg

US night sight system. (http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/m1irsnip.htm)

[Torvald Von Mansee]

I had forgotten about loading the mags. Thanks for bringing back the horrible memory! :DL


I'd have to go with the StG/MP 44 because it was billed as the first Assault Weapon. As such it's not really in the same class as SMGs like the Thompson and the Ppsh.

The SMG's, because they use pistol rounds, suffer from a lack of range and power. Also they can also shoot only in full auto which isn't conducive to making aimed shots. The select fire Sturm with it's 7.92x33mm round has none of those problems.

Well, this is what the the Ppsh fires: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62x25mm_Tokarev

Brutal little cartridge.

However, yes: the StG 44 is probably the best personal small arm of WW2.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

That's actually a night sight. Germans also used night sights. Not sure why you would find that funny. The PPsh-41 was able to shoot single fire so aimed shots were possible. Not that it was the most accurate weapon but in a right place at night time I wouldn't want to be the German who ran across that.

Edit. That's actually a prototype, not necessarily used in the war. The German Vampir - night sight system was even more bulky.

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/articles/images/vampir.jpg

US night sight system. (http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/m1irsnip.htm)

Sort of the same way this is funny:

http://blogs.suburbanchicagonews.com/sportsbeacon/homer-simpson-gun.jpg

[OneToughHerring]

I still don't get it.

But to get back on topic, I liked BoB, certainly better then most tv-series. Although to me it serves mainly as a kind of somewhat jingoistic piece of military chest thumping rather then as genuine historical study. The scope is rather limited also in that it, and also Pacific to my knowledge, focuses on a few heroic characters. Also BoB took some licences in historical accuracy that I couldn't really ignore.

[August]

But to get back on topic, I liked BoB, certainly better then most tv-series. Although to me it serves mainly as a kind of somewhat jingoistic piece of military chest thumping rather then as genuine historical study. The scope is rather limited also in that it, and also Pacific to my knowledge, focuses on a few heroic characters. Also BoB took some licences in historical accuracy that I couldn't really ignore.

That's nice...

[OneToughHerring]

That's nice...

Well it is just a tv-series, hope this doesn't come as a shock to you. I did enjoy watching it, especially certain episodes.

[Weiss Pinguin]

While we're talking about paratroopers, I've always thought a series covering the Fallschirmjaegers would be interesting.

/discuss

[Raptor1]

While we're talking about paratroopers, I've always thought a series covering the Fallschirmjaegers would be interesting.

/discuss

Kinda hard to do as Fallschirmjägers hardly participated in airborne operations, the only large-scale one being Crete which was a major catastrophe (And the reason why there weren't others).

[Jimbuna]

While we're talking about paratroopers, I've always thought a series covering the Fallschirmjaegers would be interesting.

/discuss

But would it have a successful outcome/ending? :03:

[Weiss Pinguin]

Nope, but it'd be a war series, not an ABC family movie :lol: Of course, it would probably end up having a pretty depressing tone...

Kinda hard to do as Fallschirmjägers hardly participated in airborne operations, the only large-scale one being Crete which was a major catastrophe (And the reason why there weren't others).
True, but they still had some good fights, Monte Cassino being probably the most famous.

[Raptor1]

Yeah, but there's nothing special about it; it would not be much different from a series about a regular German army unit...

[Weiss Pinguin]

I suppose. But movie companies and writers seem to think elite units make for better viewing. ;)

[August]

I think a movie on the FJ's would be very interesting and that includes Crete.

But it has to be done by Germans. Hollywood would never get it right!

You're wrong about their lack of Airborne ops though. There were several FJ combat jumps in the early part of the war in Belgium, Norway and Denmark.

[tater]

But would it have a successful outcome/ending? :03:

They could all die, speeding the end of nazi aggression and democide. That's pretty successful.

[Bubblehead1980]

The ground war in ETO and PTO has been covered again and again.A show about US silent service would be great.

[stabiz]

They could all die, speeding the end of nazi aggression and democide. That's pretty successful.

Obvious response award.

Seriously, it would be cool to see some war drama thats not about US troops, be it German, Russian, British etc. I hope the Germans will do more WW2 stuff, Das Boot is still excellent.

[Raptor1]

I think a movie on the FJ's would be very interesting and that includes Crete.

But it has to be done by Germans. Hollywood would never get it right!

You're wrong about their lack of Airborne ops though. There were several FJ combat jumps in the early part of the war in Belgium, Norway and Denmark.

A movie about Crete could be awesome if it presented the planning and battle from both sides like Tora! Tora! Tora! did with Pearl Harbor.

And I said there weren't any other large-scale airborne operations, the earlier drops rarely involved more than a company, and those that did usually failed as well (The Hague for example). It was only the smaller raids like Fort Eben-Emael and Operation Eiche that were true successes.

[August]

A movie about Crete could be awesome if it presented the planning and battle from both sides like Tora! Tora! Tora! did with Pearl Harbor.

Oh yeah but again it should be the Germans and/or the British who make it. The last thing i'd want to see is George Clooney or Ben Asshat wearing a Tommy helmet. :)

[Jimbuna]

They could all die, speeding the end of nazi aggression and democide. That's pretty successful.

Yep...something like Cross of Iron (but with German actors).

A movie about Crete could be awesome if it presented the planning and battle from both sides like Tora! Tora! Tora! did with Pearl Harbor.

And I said there weren't any other large-scale airborne operations, the earlier drops rarely involved more than a company, and those that did usually failed as well (The Hague for example). It was only the smaller raids like Fort Eben-Emael and Operation Eiche that were true successes.

I'd like to see a remake of Hunt The Bismarck or The Battle of The River Plate.

[Reaves]

Episode 3 of The pacific sucked even though it was located in the city I live in.

[Egan]

Seriously, it would be cool to see some war drama thats not about US troops, be it German, Russian, British etc. I hope the Germans will do more WW2 stuff, Das Boot is still excellent.

Little known fact: Way back in the nineties the BBC had plans to film an adaptation of a book called 'Battalion' By a guy - an old friend of my father's in fact - called Alaister Borthwick. The book was originally printed as the official wartime history of the 2nd Seaforth Highlanders and details their years as part of the 51st Highland Division through North Africa, Sicilly and the Western front. My understanding is that the project was pretty well underway before the BBC and HBO decided to join forces and dump 'Battalion' and go with 'Band of Brothers' instead.

Personally, although I'm sorry they decided not to go with 'Battalion' i can understand why: it rarely discusses individual soldiers other than in brief anecdotes, and it has a geographical and chronological sweep that makes BoB look like a long weekend on the continent, but I would have loved to see it made. One day perhaps.

I'd love to see something done about the African campaign, perhaps from the point of view of both sides. I think the African campaign occupies a special place in the British national psyche and I would love to see a good show that did justice to the memories of all those who served there.

[Jimbuna]

Little known fact: Way back in the nineties the BBC had plans to film an adaptation of a book called 'Battalion' By a guy - an old friend of my father's in fact - called Alaister Borthwick. The book was originally printed as the official wartime history of the 2nd Seaforth Highlanders and details their years as part of the 51st Highland Division through North Africa, Sicilly and the Western front. My understanding is that the project was pretty well underway before the BBC and HBO decided to join forces and dump 'Battalion' and go with 'Band of Brothers' instead.

Personally, although I'm sorry they decided not to go with 'Battalion' i can understand why: it rarely discusses individual soldiers other than in brief anecdotes, and it has a geographical and chronological sweep that makes BoB look like a long weekend on the continent, but I would have loved to see it made. One day perhaps.

I'd love to see something done about the African campaign, perhaps from the point of view of both sides. I think the African campaign occupies a special place in the British national psyche and I would love to see a good show that did justice to the memories of all those who served there.

Agreed :up:

[Weiss Pinguin]

Well, tonight was still kinda slow, but next week's episode looks like it ought to be exciting.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

The episode just past was the darkest yet, even if the bodycount wasn't quite as high as in episode 2.

I'd make a further comment, here, about something which happened, but I don't want to spoil anything for anyone.

[August]

The episode just past was the darkest yet, even if the bodycount wasn't quite as high as in episode 2.

I'd make a further comment, here, about something which happened, but I don't want to spoil anything for anyone.


Anyone reading this thread ought to expect spoilers. Lay it on us.

[Bubblehead1980]

Episode 4 was slow and left me kind of disappointed by I understand why they did it.War is not all battle and glory.Episode 3 was about R and R in Australia which was a big part of the war in the PTO, but it was not just R and R, it was a refit period for the 1st Marines after months of combat on Guadalcanal.Episode 4 followed Leckie after his transfer to a intel unit that landed on New Britain at Cape Gloucester in late 1943.There was a battle scene but it was more about how the constant rain and awful living conditions destroyed some men mentally and physically.Leckie's time at the rest camp on Banika was slow but interesting.I believe they could have combined episodes 3 and 4 into episode 3 and could have covered it just as well.Anyway, great show still and believe it is about to pick up even more since next week it covers battle of peleliu, which should be intense.Hopefully no more slow episodes.

[Jimbuna]

Episode 4 was slow and left me kind of disappointed by I understand why they did it.War is not all battle and glory.Episode 3 was about R and R in Australia which was a big part of the war in the PTO, but it was not just R and R, it was a refit period for the 1st Marines after months of combat on Guadalcanal.Episode 4 followed Leckie after his transfer to a intel unit that landed on New Britain at Cape Gloucester in late 1943.There was a battle scene but it was more about how the constant rain and awful living conditions destroyed some men mentally and physically.Leckie's time at the rest camp on Banika was slow but interesting.I believe they could have combined episodes 3 and 4 into episode 3 and could have covered it just as well.Anyway, great show still and believe it is about to pick up even more since next week it covers battle of peleliu, which should be intense.Hopefully no more slow episodes.

Agreed....but I honestly hope the series starts to keep pace with the events that were made (in a historical context).

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Anyone reading this thread ought to expect spoilers. Lay it on us.

OK, why did the Marines kill the sick Jap soldiers? Because they might make noise and possibly give away the Marines's position? Seems like they wasted an opportunity to get intel.

[tater]

OK, why did the Marines kill the sick Jap soldiers? Because they might make noise and possibly give away the Marines's position? Seems like they wasted an opportunity to get intel.

Well, partially because of things like suicidal grenade toting guys (as per that one scene on Guadalcanal at Alligator Creek). The Japs asked for and gave no quarter, and there was no shortage of summary execution in the PTO going on.

I read that on either Iwo Jima or Okinawa, the Marines wanted some prisoners, and passed the word tot he guys on the line. None appeared. They passed the word that bringing a prisoner would get the guys ice cream. Nope. Then they tried a pass to be in the rear, off the line. Nope, still no prisoners. When they got to a 3 day pass, AND ice cream, they started getting prisoners. The guys were simply not willing to risk it unless they thought it was worth it, and even if they captured any, they were not willing to walk them all the way back to the beachhead and leave their buddies unless it was worth it.

[August]

OK, why did the Marines kill the sick Jap soldiers? Because they might make noise and possibly give away the Marines's position? Seems like they wasted an opportunity to get intel.

Pretty much like Tater says in the previous post but just to give you an example of how deep such feelings went check out this MoH citation:

...As the perimeter began to be overrun, it became increasingly difficult for Captain Salomon to work on the wounded. He then saw a Japanese soldier bayoneting one of the wounded soldiers lying near the tent. Firing from a squatting position, Captain Salomon quickly killed the enemy soldier. Then, as he turned his attention back to the wounded, two more Japanese soldiers appeared in the front entrance of the tent. As these enemy soldiers were killed, four more crawled under the tent walls. Rushing them, Captain Salomon kicked the knife out of the hand of one, shot another, and bayoneted a third. Captain Salomon butted the fourth enemy soldier in the stomach and a wounded comrade then shot and killed the enemy soldier. Realizing the gravity of the situation, Captain Salomon ordered the wounded to make their way as best they could back to the regimental aid station, while he attempted to hold off the enemy until they were clear. Captain Salomon then grabbed a rifle from one of the wounded and rushed out of the tent.



BTW here is some more info on the recipient of that MoH:
http://formerspook.blogspot.com/2010/03/medal-of-honor-day.html

I find it difficult to judge such men.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Pretty much like Tater says in the previous post but just to give you an example of how deep such feelings went check out this MoH citation:





BTW here is some more info on the recipient of that MoH:
http://formerspook.blogspot.com/2010/03/medal-of-honor-day.html

I find it difficult to judge such men.

Dude, I would have had no problem bayonetting/strangling/etc Japanese soldiers during WW2. They treated their opponents monstrously, and they had it coming. I just bemoaned them not using them for info. Cold pragmatism doesn't always exist in a combat zone, I guess.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Well, partially because of things like suicidal grenade toting guys (as per that one scene on Guadalcanal at Alligator Creek). The Japs asked for and gave no quarter, and there was no shortage of summary execution in the PTO going on.

I read that on either Iwo Jima or Okinawa, the Marines wanted some prisoners, and passed the word tot he guys on the line. None appeared. They passed the word that bringing a prisoner would get the guys ice cream. Nope. Then they tried a pass to be in the rear, off the line. Nope, still no prisoners. When they got to a 3 day pass, AND ice cream, they started getting prisoners. The guys were simply not willing to risk it unless they thought it was worth it, and even if they captured any, they were not willing to walk them all the way back to the beachhead and leave their buddies unless it was worth it.

Well, that DOES make perfect sense. The Japs boobytrapped themselves all the time.

[tater]

Well they intelligence guys absolutely wanted prisoners. Turns out that Japanese prisoners were VERY valuable. Since surrender was abhorrent to them, they were trained to kill themselves rather than surrender, or take the enemy with them (many trying to surrender were gunned down from behind by other Japanese). As a result, when we did get them alive, they had no concept of not talking! They were never trained to give only "name, rank, and serial number" because they were not allowed to surrender in the first place.

So they'd tell ALL. I have a book that talks about a jap prisoner flown over the lines with a US officer, and the jap soldier was pointing out all the strong points, etc.

Nobody wanted to get killed trying to secure one, though.

[bookworm_020]

It was a high risk job taking japanese prisoners in WW2. Many would hide grenades and wait till they were close to allied troops before pulling the pin. I have a series of photos showing the surrender of two japanese soldiers, who when they started to be searched, pulled the pin. It killed them and two american's, and injured four others

[Jimbuna]

Well they intelligence guys absolutely wanted prisoners. Turns out that Japanese prisoners were VERY valuable. Since surrender was abhorrent to them, they were trained to kill themselves rather than surrender, or take the enemy with them (many trying to surrender were gunned down from behind by other Japanese). As a result, when we did get them alive, they had no concept of not talking! They were never trained to give only "name, rank, and serial number" because they were not allowed to surrender in the first place.

So they'd tell ALL. I have a book that talks about a jap prisoner flown over the lines with a US officer, and the jap soldier was pointing out all the strong points, etc.

Nobody wanted to get killed trying to secure one, though.

It was a high risk job taking japanese prisoners in WW2. Many would hide grenades and wait till they were close to allied troops before pulling the pin. I have a series of photos showing the surrender of two japanese soldiers, who when they started to be searched, pulled the pin. It killed them and two american's, and injured four others

All in all it's not suprising nobody, or at least very few were willing to put themselves in harms way knowing the mindset of the Japanese soldier.

I remember quite a years ago the wifes reaction whilst watching a WWII documentary showing US marines blasting and burning any foxhole they came across and the sight of civilians throwing themselves off the cliffs.

I put a DVD in the machine the following evening that showed some of the atrocities committed against civilians and POW's by them and she soon tempered her perceptions and beliefs.

[tater]

True, the Japanese were brutal to the peoples they conquered. It was a major mistake, frankly, aside from the obvious human cost. At the start of the war, they were actually greeted as liberators in some places. Had they acted like liberators, and not used locals as slaves, etc, they might have raised armies of soldiers to aid in what they pitched in propaganda as an anti-colonial war. Instead, they created anti-jap guerrillas.

[August]

True, the Japanese were brutal to the peoples they conquered. It was a major mistake, frankly, aside from the obvious human cost. At the start of the war, they were actually greeted as liberators in some places. Had they acted like liberators, and not used locals as slaves, etc, they might have raised armies of soldiers to aid in what they pitched in propaganda as an anti-colonial war. Instead, they created anti-jap guerrillas.

Yeah the Germans made the same mistake when they invaded the Soviet Union. At first the Ukrainians welcomed them as liberators but they turned out to be worse than the NKVD.

[Jimbuna]

True, the Japanese were brutal to the peoples they conquered. It was a major mistake, frankly, aside from the obvious human cost. At the start of the war, they were actually greeted as liberators in some places. Had they acted like liberators, and not used locals as slaves, etc, they might have raised armies of soldiers to aid in what they pitched in propaganda as an anti-colonial war. Instead, they created anti-jap guerrillas.

Agreed....they chose the methodology of how the war would be fought.

They were the aggressor who cast the first stone and stooped to perhaps arguably all time lows in the treatment meated out to their enemies and fellow human beings (definitley in the 20th century) and ultimately aided the allies in deciding which was the quickest and least costly in terms of potential casualties way of bringing hostilities to an end.

Something I've never agreed with was giving Emperor Hirohito an exemption from the charges of war crimes against humanity....unlike Hitler and Mussolini et al.

[August]

Something I've never agreed with was giving Emperor Hirohito an exemption from the charges of war crimes against humanity....unlike Hitler and Mussolini et al.

I thought that he was seen as a figurehead who didn't have any direct control over the war effort. Tojo was the real power behind the throne.

[tater]

I thought that he was seen as a figurehead who didn't have any direct control over the war effort. Tojo was the real power behind the throne.

That's a myth. The Emperor had plenty of power. He should have been executed.

The reason was partially MacArthur wanting to succeed, and that made it far easier, and partially the cold war—cementing Japan as a useful base in the PTO.

[Jimbuna]

I thought that he was seen as a figurehead who didn't have any direct control over the war effort. Tojo was the real power behind the throne.

The Emperor always had the final say....nothing went passed him or over his head. A bit like our Queen, the Prime Minister needs her royal assent before laws have any power.

I should imagine the power on the side of the Emperor carrying even more weight in those days.

he certainly wasn't just a figurehead.

That's a myth. The Emperor had plenty of power. He should have been executed.

The reason was partially MacArthur wanting to succeed, and that made it far easier, and partially the cold war—cementing Japan as a useful base in the PTO.

Your probably right on the money there. The allies already had deep suspicions re Joes future plans for european domination and probably realised China was a giant simply in a slumber.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Agreed....they chose the methodology of how the war would be fought.

They were the aggressor who cast the first stone and stooped to perhaps arguably all time lows in the treatment meated out to their enemies and fellow human beings (definitley in the 20th century) and ultimately aided the allies in deciding which was the quickest and least costly in terms of potential casualties way of bringing hostilities to an end.

Something I've never agreed with was giving Emperor Hirohito an exemption from the charges of war crimes against humanity....unlike Hitler and Mussolini et al.

Hirohito should have been hanged.

Thank god I live in a country where someone couldn't become leader simply because his father was leader (via undemocratic means), wage aggressive war, then continue his life in luxurious retirement like nothing ever happened.

[August]

The allies already had deep suspicions re Joes future plans for european domination and probably realised China was a giant simply in a slumber.

Well that last second Soviet declaration of war sure was a pretty blatant attempt at eastern expansion.

And BTW does your government really need the permission of the Queen in order to make new laws? I thought you people worked that whole democracy thang out back in Cromwells day. Magna Carta and all that.

[Raptor1]

Well that last second Soviet declaration of war sure was a pretty blatant attempt at eastern expansion.


The Soviet declaration of war preceeding the invasion of Manchuria?

I do believe it was requested by the Allies at Yalta that the Soviets declare war soon after the end of the war in Europe. In fact, some attribute the Soviet invasion as being as big a factor in Japanese surrender as the atomic bombs.

[August]

As for Hirohito maybe he wasn't as out of the command loop as I was taught but I do remember reading that they were afraid that trying and executing the Emperor would have caused a revolt among the Japanese people at a time when we needed peace and stability.

Now while I think the Germans would have easily accepted Hitlers execution had things turned out that way, and we all know what the Italians did to Mussolini when they finally got the chance, I wonder how much truth there is to Hirohitos supposedly strong standing among the Japanese people.

Do you guys think they would have fought to save their emperor? Did keeping him on the throne make the Allies occupation effort go smoother?

[Jimbuna]

As for Hirohito maybe he wasn't as out of the command loop as I was taught but I do remember reading that they were afraid that trying and executing the Emperor would have caused a revolt among the Japanese people at a time when we needed peace and stability.

Now while I think the Germans would have easily accepted Hitlers execution had things turned out that way, and we all know what the Italians did to Mussolini when they finally got the chance, I wonder how much truth there is to Hirohitos supposedly strong standing among the Japanese people.

Do you guys think they would have fought to save their emperor? Did keeping him on the throne make the Allies occupation effort go smoother?

I would simply answer yes to both of your last two questions :yep:

[tater]

There was an implication that we'd allow him to continue in the surrender. On top of that, it would have made the occupation quite difficult. The reality is that the Emperor held a lot of power. Look at the surrender for proof. The military did not want it, it happened anyway (though they attempted a coup of sorts to stop it).

The 2d a-bomb was critical in this calculus, BTW. They started to worry that we'd keep the "rain of ruin" (Truman) going. We actually had a 3d bomb OTW, and our production made about 1 per month from there on. It would have been impossible not to use them. Impossible.

Imagine your son killed in combat when the President had a super weapon, but chose not to use it? Even if ending the war was not certain with the use in that scenario, it would not matter. Failure to use every possible weapon would have been political suicide for Truman—or anyone that might have followed.

[bookworm_020]

Imagine your son killed in combat when the President had a super weapon, but chose not to use it? Even if ending the war was not certain with the use in that scenario, it would not matter. Failure to use every possible weapon would have been political suicide for Truman—or anyone that might have followed.

The projected death toll for the invasion of Japan wasn't good. They are still using the purple heart medals they made for the projected injured today. A lot less people died in both atomic bombings than some of the conventional firestorms that had already happened, let alone the planned invasion.

Back to topic - They are about to start showing the series here in Australia on Sunday!:yeah:

[TarJak]

Bugger! The series starts down here next Wednesday night. The night before I arrive back home from an overseas trip! Bugger!

[August]

Bugger! The series starts down here next Wednesday night. The night before I arrive back home from an overseas trip! Bugger!

I wouldn't be too bummed about it guys. What i've seen from the series so far it might be better to watch them all at once when the DVD comes out.

[Reece]

Without reading the whole thread, is it worth watching?:hmmm:

[August]

Without reading the whole thread, is it worth watching?:hmmm:

Yes. Not as good as Band of Brothers but still worth watching nonetheless.

[Reece]

Thanks!:yeah:

[Weiss Pinguin]

Without reading the whole thread, is it worth watching?:hmmm:
Yes. But if you don't see Ep 3 then don't feel too bummed out.

[Weiss Pinguin]

Well, finally saw the latest episode tonight. This one felt a lot more like something from BoB, with all the action. The landing scene was pretty intense, I can't wait to see the rest of the airfield. Hopefully the rest of the series keeps this kind of pace.

(Also, Anna Torv is haaawt)

[Reece]

First episode here in Adelaide tonight (5 hrs from now), recorder set!:up:

[OneToughHerring]

Thank god I live in a country where someone couldn't become leader simply because his father was leader (via undemocratic means), wage aggressive war, then continue his life in luxurious retirement like nothing ever happened.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g29/rikuana/I-see-what-you-did-there.jpg

:har:

[bookworm_020]

The Pacific finaly aired here in Australia last night. It was ok, but I found the voice over by Tom Hanks to be out of place. It would have been better to have it from one of the cast who were playing a role in the episode.

Will be interesting to see how they made Melboure back to the 1940's. Wouldn't be that hard:woot:

[Jimbuna]

Will be interesting to see how they made Melboure back to the 1940's. Wouldn't be that hard:woot:

LOL :DL

[Weiss Pinguin]

The Pacific finaly aired here in Australia last night. It was ok, but I found the voice over by Tom Hanks to be out of place. It would have been better to have it from one of the cast who were playing a role in the episode.
For some reason I want to say that they dropped it for the latest episodes. :hmmm: I actually don't remember if they had it for episodes 4 & 5 (Missed very beginning of 5 and jumped in after the recap)

My head might be playing with me though...

[August]

For some reason I want to say that they dropped it for the latest episodes. :hmmm: I actually don't remember if they had it for episodes 4 & 5 (Missed very beginning of 5 and jumped in after the recap)

My head might be playing with me though...

Yeah it was there, just at the beginning though iirc.

[Weiss Pinguin]

Ah, okay. Usually I'm still getting ready to watch, so I guess I just blank that bit out. :lol:

[Dowly]

Have to say I dont like the cast at all. BoB had more colorful cast IMHO. :hmmm:

[OneToughHerring]

I think both BoB and from what I know Pacific focus on the heroes and 'oorah'-moments of the US military. While understandable since it's funded by some US source and they sure don't like to be reminded of their defeats, it still kind of makes these types of series kind of same ol' same ol'.

But as recruitment tools, which they were intended to be, I'm pretty sure they work.

[Weiss Pinguin]

Have to say I dont like the cast at all. BoB had more colorful cast IMHO. :hmmm:
I think BoB just had more 'named' characters. (well, not characters, but you know) The Pacific has really only focused on Leckie and Basilone (and now Sledge) and their immediate buddies; Even though Sledge and Leckie are currently both on Peleliu, they're still in different units, and Basilone is all the way in America. :doh: Even though Band of Brothers also (usually) followed a few guys most episodes, since everyone was in the same unit, you'd basically see the rest of the guys as well throughout the episode.

I still love it though. :up:

[Dowly]

I think BoB just had more 'named' characters. (well, not characters, but you know) The Pacific has really only focused on Leckie and Basilone (and now Sledge) and their immediate buddies; Even though Sledge and Leckie are currently both on Peleliu, they're still in different units, and Basilone is all the way in America. :doh: Even though Band of Brothers also (usually) followed a few guys most episodes, since everyone was in the same unit, you'd basically see the rest of the guys as well throughout the episode.

Ya, well have only seen 3 episodes atm. But what I loved, for example, in BoB how they saw their former trainer in the later episodes, still being out of frontlines and yet the soldiers he trained were now veterans and seen battle. One of my favorite moments of the series. :hmmm::yep:

[tater]

I think both BoB and from what I know Pacific focus on the heroes and 'oorah'-moments of the US military. While understandable since it's funded by some US source and they sure don't like to be reminded of their defeats, it still kind of makes these types of series kind of same ol' same ol'.

But as recruitment tools, which they were intended to be, I'm pretty sure they work.

Wow, clueless.

It's about WW2. IN this case, the PTO. The only losses were really right at the start. The Philippines would have been another possibility, but then after a few months the series becomes a POW series—which is not as typical a PTO experience as island hopping was.

The few defeats in the PTO aside from the Philippines for the US were naval engagements for the most part. From the POV of making a series like this, there is much dead time between combats in naval units, OR, if they suffered a loss, the crews that live go home perhaps, then get transfered to a new ship (USN air units moved around, too, they were not organic to the CV).

Anyway, following the same guys and getting multiple battles in required the Marines as the focus, and they didn't lose.

[Factor]

Have to say I dont like the cast at all. BoB had more colorful cast IMHO. :hmmm:


I think part of that may be that you do not get the "development" time with this cast. BOB was, not counting boot camp, from June 44 till mid 45, and focused on one unit. This series, spans from 42-45, and tells the story of multiple units. At least 3.

A stand out cast member to me so far is, Merriell Snafu Shelton. His performance so far has been very well done.

All in all, i think this series will top BOB. I have read both books that "The Pacific" is based on, and i know the coming battles are going to be very bloody, and very emotional. (Read these books some years ago. My grandfather was KIA in Peleliu, so i have read almost any and every book on the Pacific campaign)

From what i have read from With the Old Breed by Eugene Sledge, Okinawa will be a very powerful and disturbing film work. The book in itself, was very emotional.

[August]

Even though Band of Brothers also (usually) followed a few guys most episodes, since everyone was in the same unit, you'd basically see the rest of the guys as well throughout the episode

This I think pretty much defines the issue with the series.

[nikimcbee]

It seems like thay didn't spend much time developing the characters. I not contected to the Pacific ones at all. They really boke the mold with BoB. This series isn't bad, but it's no BoB, that's for sure.

Other than the shagging episode, have they had any hollywood moments?

[nikimcbee]

Tonights episode any good?

[August]

Tonights episode any good?

One of the best so far imo.

[Weiss Pinguin]

Just got back from seeing Percy Jackson, so this had better be good :p2:

[TarJak]

Caught up with the first two eps last night when Channel 72 replayed them. IMHO BoB definately had more character development, but this seems to be trying to cover larger sections of the entire Pacific campaign so I can understand why it's less unit specific.

All up the quality of the production shows through with good performances, greate FX and all round HBO polish.

I'll be watching this Wednesday to see the next one.

[Weiss Pinguin]

Definitely one of the best episodes so far, I hope the series can keep up this pace. I may have nightmares about the marine they had to put down though - his bit of screaming was pure nightmare fuel :o

[nikimcbee]

One of the best so far imo.

Just watched it: agreed:yeah:

[Weiss Pinguin]

http://knowyourmeme.com/i/19263/original/514_Bump.jpg?1253161298

The Art of the Title Sequence (apparently they look at title sequences ;)) put up an interview with Steve Fuller, who worked on the opening title for the Pacific: http://www.artofthetitle.com/2010/04/26/the-pacific/

Really interesting stuff, I only wish they had put up bigger pictures. The Pacific probably has one of my favorite opening sequences, on par, if not better, with BoB.

[tater]

I like the opening too, but I prefer the BoB music I think.

[August]

Last Sundays episode was the best so far imo. It's taken them most of the series but they've finally developed the supporting characters.

[mookiemookie]

Last Sundays episode was the best so far imo. It's taken them most of the series but they've finally developed the supporting characters.

Indeed. It's been slow to get going but the past two episodes were great.

Definitely one of the best episodes so far, I hope the series can keep up this pace. I may have nightmares about the marine they had to put down though - his bit of screaming was pure nightmare fuel :o

I thought that was horrible. Couldn't they have just dragged him off the line instead of whacking him?

Also...

My gf and I were discussing why the one soldier (never caught his name) was discouraging Sledge from scavenging the gold from the dead Japanese soldier's teeth. We settled on the belief that he believed that Sledge was too innocent and didn't want to see him degrade himself into a scavenger. Anyone else's thoughts?

[tater]

I think that sledge who started out as a noob has become a really good soldier, and an admirable person. I see sledge as that guy's last remaining connection to a world outside the brutality they live in. Not as an innocent, he's seem him kill people, but as something decent in the sh*thole they find themselves in, and he doesn't want that last connection to decency sullied.

[mookiemookie]

I think that sledge who started out as a noob has become a really good soldier, and an admirable person. I see sledge as that guy's last remaining connection to a world outside the brutality they live in. Not as an innocent, he's seem him kill people, but as something decent in the sh*thole they find themselves in, and he doesn't want that last connection to decency sullied.

Exactly what I meant. I guess "innocent" was a bad way to put it.

[Weiss Pinguin]

I think that sledge who started out as a noob has become a really good soldier, and an admirable person. I see sledge as that guy's last remaining connection to a world outside the brutality they live in. Not as an innocent, he's seem him kill people, but as something decent in the sh*thole they find themselves in, and he doesn't want that last connection to decency sullied.
Exactly. Snafu (Who looks like he's been through the worst stuff imaginable) sees Sledge (Who's starting to understand just what his dad was talking about), and decides that he isn't too far gone and that there's some hope of him getting through it all without having 'his soul torn out.'


On a side note, 'Snafu' Shelton is probably my favorite supporting character in the series. IMO the actor portraying him did a great job.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Exactly. Snafu (Who looks like he's been through the worst stuff imaginable) sees Sledge (Who's starting to understand just what his dad was talking about), and decides that he isn't too far gone and that there's some hope of him getting through it all without having 'his soul torn out.'


On a side note, 'Snafu' Shelton is probably my favorite supporting character in the series. IMO the actor portraying him did a great job.

Snafu is my favorite, too. I suspect he survives the war, because the actor playing him seems to portray him in a rather signature manner, which makes me think he had the living guy to learn from (finding out if he was KIA would be pretty straightforward, online). I laughed at the part where he was dropping pebbles into the you-know-where. Was that wrong?

I find it very strange that they spent three episodes on Peleliu. They still have Iwo Jima and Okinawa to go, which were much larger battles.

[Raptor1]

Peleliu was longer than Iwo Jima, I believe...

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Peleliu was longer than Iwo Jima, I believe...

Peleliu: September 15 – November 27, 1944
Iwo Jima: February 19 – March 26, 1945
Okinawa: April 1, 1945 – June 22, 1945

Yep.

I think at 10 episodes, the miniseries is too short.

Here's a question for you all: if you were an Allied fighting man, would you rather fight the Germans or the Japanese? The Germans had a far more developed industrial base, so they had that going for them.

[BadSeed]

Can't say too much about these shows until the end.

But rating a first episode

P-1 , BoB-0

[August]

Here's a question for you all: if you were an Allied fighting man, would you rather fight the Germans or the Japanese? The Germans had a far more developed industrial base, so they had that going for them.

The Germans definitely. I hate the tropics. Too hot, too muggy, too buggy.

[mr chris]

Have watched the first 5 parts now in HD. Got to say the quality is fantastic. Just wish the was a little more group character development.
That said though it is by far the best show on TV at the moment by a country mile.
Just wish it was a 20 / 15 part and not a 10 part mini series.
As for comparing it to BoB i don't think that is fair as this series is set in a different theatre of operations which is much larger in scope than what BoB was set in.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

The Germans definitely. I hate the tropics. Too hot, too muggy, too buggy.

Well, the Germans had a far superior industrial base. Better weapons, better tactics, etc.

I also know that only like 1/10 of U.S. war resources were allocated to the Pacific, so there's that to consider (though I don't know how that would affect things).

[August]

Well, the Germans had a far superior industrial base. Better weapons, better tactics, etc.

I also know that only like 1/10 of U.S. war resources were allocated to the Pacific, so there's that to consider (though I don't know how that would affect things).

Oh, I misunderstood your question. I thought you meant, given that we were already at war with both, which one would I prefer to fight.

Now that I understand i'd still have to say the Germans. They may have had a better industrial base etc but they also had a lot more lined up against them. Like you said, 90% of the US war resources alone.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Oh, I misunderstood your question. I thought you meant, given that we were already at war with both, which one would I prefer to fight.

Now that I understand i'd still have to say the Germans. They may have had a better industrial base etc but they also had a lot more lined up against them. Like you said, 90% of the US war resources alone.

Embarrassing stat of the day: 80% of German resources went towards the Eastern front. Of course, we (i.e., Americans and Brits) gave the Soviets tons of aid, but still..

Sorry if I'm ignoring any of you minor allies.

Now if you had to surrender to the Germans for whatever reason, you'd do better than w/the Japanese. Unless the Germans in question you were surrendering to were SS, or you were a Soviet.

[August]

Now if you had to surrender to the Germans for whatever reason, you'd do better than w/the Japanese. Unless the Germans in question you were surrendering to were SS, or you were a Soviet.

I suppose that is true though I'd be thinking more about the relative ease in getting them to surrender.

[Weiss Pinguin]

Snafu is my favorite, too. I suspect he survives the war, because the actor playing him seems to portray him in a rather signature manner, which makes me think he had the living guy to learn from (finding out if he was KIA would be pretty straightforward, online). I laughed at the part where he was dropping pebbles into the you-know-where. Was that wrong?
Maybe, but it was just so off-the-wall that I had to laugh too. :lol:

Btw here's (http://blog.beliefnet.com/roddreher/2010/03/the-real-snafu-from-the-pacific.html) a small article from a guy who apparently lived next to Shelton so I think it's safe to say he survived.

Have watched the first 5 parts now in HD. Got to say the quality is fantastic. Just wish the was a little more group character development.
Now that I look back at the earlier episodes, I think the first 4-5 episodes were meant to be mainly character development, with bits of action thrown in. If that's the case, though, then they could've done a much better job. Now that the series is starting to pick up, IMO it's a lot more engaging than it was with all the quiet moments they had at the beginning.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

I suppose that is true though I'd be thinking more about the relative ease in getting them to surrender.

In that case, fight the Italians!!! :har:

[August]

In that case, fight the Italians!!! :har:


:DL

Y'know seriously the Italians were good soldiers, they were just terribly led.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

:DL

Y'know seriously the Italians were good soldiers, they were just terribly led.

I know!! It was just a cheap shot!! :D

[Weiss Pinguin]

:DL

Y'know seriously the Italians were good soldiers, they were just terribly led.
Not to mention poorly equipped compared to everyone else. ;)

[Happy Times]

Not to mention poorly equipped compared to everyone else. ;)

Thats no excuse, neither is lack of fighting spirit.
Poor leadership, training, tactics and doctrine i will accept.:DL

[bookworm_020]

Thats no excuse, neither is lack of fighting spirit.
Poor leadership, training, tactics and doctrine i will accept.:DL

They did put up a good fight on occasions, but the high up leadership was lacking

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Well...I found tonight's episode ultimately unfulfilling . For one thing, it looks like Iwo Jima will ultimately only be 10 minutes of the series!!! The previews look like they pick up the series in Okinawa. Also, if you are going to have a love story, etc., it should be a little bit longer than 50 minutes. It just seems everything about it was very rushed and abbreviated and thusly falls flat.

[Weiss Pinguin]

Yeah, seems like the series had just found its pace, and then they changed gears again. Definitely felt rushed, and I was afraid we were gonna have to wait until next week to see the Iwo Jima landings. But that didn't make seeing [SPOILER] Basilone go down any less dramatic, and the landings were probably the most brutal scenes yet.

[August]

Yeah, seems like the series had just found its pace, and then they changed gears again. Definitely felt rushed, and I was afraid we were gonna have to wait until next week to see the Iwo Jima landings. But that didn't make seeing [SPOILER] Basilone go down any less dramatic, and the landings were probably the most brutal scenes yet.

I think they tried to do cover two much for a 10 part series. This could easily have filled 30 parts.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Yeah, seems like the series had just found its pace, and then they changed gears again. Definitely felt rushed, and I was afraid we were gonna have to wait until next week to see the Iwo Jima landings. But that didn't make seeing [SPOILER] Basilone go down any less dramatic, and the landings were probably the most brutal scenes yet.

Apparently, he was killed instantly by a mortar shell. He wasn't shot and had time to look around before dying like in the episode.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

I think they tried to do cover two much for a 10 part series. This could easily have filled 30 parts.

Thirty parts would have been prohibitively expensive for HBO, ofc, but I think they could have stretched it out to 15. I guess they wanted to keep it to 10 parts to be symmetrical with Band of Brothers.

[nikimcbee]

I tuned in right when they were tearing clothes off:doh:. My first thought was:" So the most important part of the war was how the marines got laid when not fighting:shifty:. But then I saw the rerun, so I knew the story in context.:hmmm: Tragic story though.

[nikimcbee]

Apparently, he was killed instantly by a mortar shell. He wasn't shot and had time to look around before dying like in the episode.

Ha, you did the same thing I did. I looked all this up after I saw that episode. And I noticed that fact too. I wonder why they changed that point?

[tater]

They changed a lot regarding basilone, unfortunately.

[August]

Thirty parts would have been prohibitively expensive for HBO, ofc, but I think they could have stretched it out to 15. I guess they wanted to keep it to 10 parts to be symmetrical with Band of Brothers.

Most probably. I just think that Sledges book "With the Old Breed" would have justified a 10 part series on it's own. Yeah, it wouldn't have covered Guadalcanal but the series doesn't cover a lot of the USMCs Pacific battles.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

As it so happens, I had to pick someone up from National Airport in D.C., today. I looked around Arlington National Cemetery, and found Basilone's grave:

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/6751/basilone.jpg

And not too far away, American sub ace Richard O'Kane's:

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/2282/kanej.jpg

Tilt your head to see them upright.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Oops. I guess it became obvious via context that I was waiting in the cemetery.