If SH5 was a car would you buy it?

[gronbek]

My meaning with this is how can so many quality issues(bugs) pass green-ok status(quality control)?

Don't game companies test their final product before release or are they releasing bad quality to the consumers knowing they do?

I would be ashamed if I was responsible for releasing such a low quality product to the market.

And they don't seem to learn within this company relating to their previous releases.

Something is very wrong in a company when they release pisspoor quality like this.

BR Anders

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

I have not played SH5 just readed about it but if it would be car... I'm sure my insurance company would cancel my health insurance.

And police would propably send me to loonybin! :D

[Catfish]

Hello,
had i known i would not be able to play it for three days due to connection problems (eMail from UBI - "is your cable connected ?"), and known what i know now about UBI's plans for a constant cashflow - hell NO i would not have bought it now !

I would have at least waited until they remove this online requirement. I even refuse to call this online requirement a "DRM" or "digital rights management" model, because it is not about preventing "piracy".
Piracy is an excuse for forcing people to connect to UBIsoft servers.
Piracy is a result of bad service on the part of software companies.

And you do not buy software anymore, you lease it - you do not own it, it is not even a copy you've got, but a license to use it under this and that circumstances. No need to buy a package anymore, you can either download it (on your costs, again) or maybe in the future place a certain cookie in your temp directory, to be allowed to log on the servers and play online browser games, paying for every minute.
:stare::nope:

Greetings,
Catfish

[sav112]

I know what you’re getting at with this analogy, sad thing is the motor industry learned years ago and you just don’t really get poor cars anymore, but some do have faults that’s for sure.

In saying that my friend returned his brand new Peugeot because after a week the electrics started playing up, lights would come on, warning lights and at the time the windows stopped working. Went to the dealers car came back and a week later the doors started opening (ie the child locks ) and he has a young family. So back in again to the dealers although they could not find out what was wrong but had replaced something and coming home a few days later in really heavy rain the electric Windows went down and would not go up. This was on a 20K car!!!!!!:damn:

So he went in raging got his money back and gave the car back saying that was the last Peugeot he would buy.

SHV reminds me of my mates brand new car in the 80s and XR3i. The car had disco lights ( press the brake pedal and all the back lights would flash), The sunroof leaked from new, there was silly panel gap at one of the wings and the rear wiper motor burned out within a month and his boot was always damp. It was a damp squib as we used to call it. Looked nice on the street all the same but would I buy it nope not on your nelly.

[Coldcall]

The comparison does not work. A car cannot be modded in the same way as a software application.

Also cars are necessarily built to higher standards re bugginess because if they get a serious bug/error it could kill the driver and passengers. The bugs and DRM insanity of SH5 wont actually kill anyone.

However the DRM thing is a serious issue in its own right since it deals with restricting the freedom of when and how one can use a particular product. Ubisoft are on very shaky legal footing because technically their product in SH5 contravenes description of trade goods acts in most western nations.

On the package it says you must have an internet connection, not that you must connect to a Ubisoft server. So anyopne can take their game back to the retailer they bought it at and get their money back. Its that simple.

Im holding onto mine because modders have already improved the game tremendously so i reckon it will end up very well modded, and consequently will one day be a great game.

[CCIP]

SH5 is not a car though.

[sav112]

Think the point is more geared toward that SHV as a brand boxed product released was piss poor quality and that the company should be embarrassed and the fact so much was found wrong so quick. :oops:

Like my mate said, he’d not be going back in to that dealers again for the mark of car. As I’ve said I did not plan to buy this till I had my new machine but I’ve moved on to wanting the new Carrier Command. I pop in here to keep an eye on what developing.

SHV ”£5 Bargain Basket” plus a Super Mod will probably be my experience with this game near the end of the year.:yeah:

[Mud]

Toyota Prius anyone ?


Mud

[gutted]

Cars are for sissies. Real men drive trucks. :D

[Faamecanic]

Toyota Prius anyone ?


Mud

^^QFT^^

In a simple word NO.

[Catfish]

" ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mud http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/viewpost.gif (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1310369#post1310369)
Toyota Prius anyone ?


Mud

^^QFT^^

In a simple word NO. ..."


A bit easy, Toyota has the smallest or better most perfect manufacturing tolerances, and their cars are also the most dependable ones when it comes to longevity and bug-free service. No german car comes even close.
The problems with sticking gas pedals derived from supply factories in the US. Toyota's fault obviously was lacking quality control of suppliers, in the USA.

Greetings,
Catfish

[Mud]

Toyota´s lack of quality control is life threatening and simply said SHV is not.

Al though I suspect some peeps here have blood pressure problems the last week :O:

Me included at times lol


Mud

[msxyz]

A MOD is not a panacea for the shortcomings.

Also, if the base software is crap or does not provide enought merits to keep modders hooked, these people will simply find a better development platform.

As it stands now, it's probably easier to bring the few innovation of SH5 to SH4 than bringing SH5 to SH3 and SH4 standards

[gronbek]

Ohoy Captains :)

Yeah, what i am aiming at is a comparisson where a company just pushes out cars to any cost just to try and deliver on time and let quality suffer.

Surely there must be a quality department within the SH team who's responsibility is to secure good quality of the product just as in the car world.

Methinks they got overrun!

BR Anders

[janh]

The comparison does not work. A car cannot be modded in the same way as a software application.

Also cars are necessarily built to higher standards re bugginess because if they get a serious bug/error it could kill the driver and passengers. The bugs and DRM insanity of SH5 wont actually kill anyone.

....


The comparison is a little far fetched, sure, but you can make it work if you think about the bigger picture. You can even replace car, SHV, software respectively with a placeholder, and will still obtain the same result.

(a) SHV should not need to be modded to function as a product. How many customers are really into modding and spent so much time finding and installing mods? Maybe the GWX people could tell us how many time their final release was downloaded, and how that compared to the ~200.000 sold copies?

(b) Further, SHV should have been an almost bug-free release after the experience with SHIV, that apparently never overcame the initial stigma of a broken product with little innovation aside from graphics. Customers did vote with their wallets in that case, see Ubisoft Corporate official sales report.

(c) Cars are more expensive, and higher price of course leads to less "bug tolerance". If it costs a lot, I want it to be perfect.
This holds true for software, too. I work on huge clusters, occupying 100s-1000s of CPUs daily. The software on such clusters needs to be 100% perfect, but there is still (rare) cases of downtime. The cost of any downtime is sizable, and of course the failure is each time investigated in detail. Any company supplying software for such large-scale applications protects itself by making sure that their products are thoroughly tested, very thoroughly. If any of those companies involved in such a project would act like Ubisoft, not provide best quality software solutions, error-free with excellent support, they'd loose a huge business deal.

But now scaling down the product and its price, you keep the underlying quality criteria. If the product doesn't add any significantly novel feature or functionality to your portfolio, why buy it? If it is low quality (buggy), why buy it? If it requires a couple more patches before it truly leaves beta, why buy it now? If the customer service is bad (OSP DRM?), why not switch to a better supplier with a competing product?

Or would you want to mod your car? Of course you can do so, just requires a few tools and some skill! And ooops, you can replace the broken breaks on your Toyota yourself! Maybe not as efficient as a professional mechanic with the original plans, but still. Similarly, modding a game to fix features is always <= effcient as having the developers fix the code correctly. Scripting always is slower than hardcoding things.

[Heretic]

I bought my '66 Mustang for $2300. It was worth $12,000 after I got done with it. I bought it specificly because of it's potential and I enjoyed the process of making it the way I wanted. Plus I could never have afforded one already restored.

I bought SH5 for the same reason. It's got the usual raft of problems, but I don't think it's really that bad and I expect thme to get fixed, just like with SH3. I'm in it for the long haul and I enjoy being in at the beginning, figuring out how things work, where my contributions can actually matter. I've bought dozens of $50 games over the years that I tossed aside after a few hours, never giving them another thought. I have no doubt I'll get my money's worth many time over with this one.

And after all, it is only a game. They way some folks carry on, you'd think Ubi broke into their house and violated their dog or something. :o

[Iron Budokan]

Haha, no I wouldn't buy it if it was a car.

I wouldn't even buy it if it was a roller skate.

[Safe-Keeper]

Cars need to be tested because they'd cause fatalities if they weren't.
Making games, where 50% of your customers don't pay for the product they receive and you're chronically short on time and money, is another venture entirely.


Would I buy SH5 if it was a car? If I saw potential and was into car-tweaking, sure. I'd buy the vehicle, give it some test runs, then have some fun going over it with my buddies until it suited our needs. Which is essentially what we're doing with SH5 -- it's unfinished, lots of stuff doesn't work, and it's painted in a fairly ugly pink, but hey, nothing we can't fix.

[AVGWarhawk]

Yes I would. I bought a Volkswagen Passat! Talk about bugs! :har:

[Méo]

The Question is:

Would you waste your time reading and posting about a pisspoor quality CAR day after day after day day after day after day day after day after day...:nope:

[AVGWarhawk]

The Question is:

Would you waste your time reading and posting about a pisspoor quality CAR day after day after day day after day after day day after day after day...:nope:


Yes, there are forums for that! Every car has a forum of one sort or another. People post on them everyday! :up:

[John Channing]

" If SH5 was a car would you buy it? "

No.

I wouldn't fit in the little black box it came in and even if I could it has no wheels so the ride would be really bumpy.

JCC


I wonder if on the Toyota website someone has posted "If the Prius was a videogame would you buy it?"

[Méo]

Yes, there are forums for that! Every car has a forum of one sort or another. People post on them everyday! :up:

I was talking about pisspoor quality car that you (not really you AVG) never expect to buy.

[Rockin Robbins]

Would I buy a car I had no right to lend, give away or sell? No. Same answer for SH5.

[EgoApocalypse]

Eh................................................ .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..........No. I would want to live

[Mud]

Yes, there are forums for that! Every car has a forum of one sort or another. People post on them everyday! :up:

true story , http://www.problemcar.nl #1 Dutch site about cars with ...erm .. bugs


Mud

[FIREWALL]

The Chevy Vega of PC games. :haha:

[IanC]

SH5 is like a fake Chinese made Farrari.

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/4197/81178793.jpg

[AVGWarhawk]

true story , http://www.problemcar.nl #1 Dutch site about cars with ...erm .. bugs


Mud

try:

myvwlemon.com SUCKERS WANTED!

http://www.myvwlemon.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCookie=true

[Barso]

My wife paid £24000 for a new audi A4TDI SE that has been in the garage 5 times since she bought it 2 years ago for electrical faults, one time she had been stranded at 11 o'clock PM miles from home due to the car stalling at a junction while being 7 months pregnant.
My £14000 new VW caddy van has been in 4 times for electrical and clutch problems since I bought it 12 months ago and has left me 10 tens with no van to work.
Trust me SH5 is nothing compared to the times I could have throttled the pricks that sold me those 2 cars.
They must have been built them on a friday lunchtime, I can just imagine the car builders tightening the engine block with 8 bolts instead of 12 to finish work early.

[Piggy]

SH5 is like a fake Chinese made Farrari.

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/4197/81178793.jpg

Sirent Hunter 5: Battle of the Atrantic... :har:

[badkarma]

I bought my '66 Mustang for $2300. It was worth $12,000 after I got done with it. I bought it specificly because of it's potential and I enjoyed the process of making it the way I wanted. Plus I could never have afforded one already restored.

Except in this case, the '66 Mustang is a 2010 Mustang that cost $12,000 and still needs the same amount of work that your "project" car did to make it worth the $12,000 you just paid for it.
If SH5 cost £4.79 I'd find it hard to disagree with you, or anyone, about the state of it currently.

[Task Force]

NO!!!

If sh5 was a car It would blow up as soon as you put the key in the ignition. BOOM:dead:

[AVGWarhawk]

My wife paid £24000 for a new audi A4TDI SE that has been in the garage 5 times since she bought it 2 years ago for electrical faults, one time she had been stranded at 11 o'clock PM miles from home due to the car stalling at a junction while being 7 months pregnant.
My £14000 new VW caddy van has been in 4 times for electrical and clutch problems since I bought it 12 months ago and has left me 10 tens with no van to work.
Trust me SH5 is nothing compared to the times I could have throttled the pricks that sold me those 2 cars.
They must have been built them on a friday lunchtime, I can just imagine the car builders tightening the engine block with 8 bolts instead of 12 to finish work early.

I feel your pain sir! :yep:

[Nisgeis]

If SH5 was a car would you buy it?

No, because I already have a car. Or did I miss the point of this analogy? :D

[flag4]

i think there are millions of cars like sh5 in the world.

theres is one in the car park here. it hit a telephone post two weeks ago coming down the hill. it awaits a tow truck to remove the wreck - the insurance company has been out to see it.

it is a right-off: gods honest...!!!:har:

[karamazovnew]

If SH5 were a car, then:
- you'd have no steering wheel. Just two buttons to go full left or full right.
- you wouldn't be able to see any traffic lights or other cars
- the Police would pull you over and then drive away without giving you a ticket
- your passengers would refuse to speak to you every time you entered the car
- you'd have to open up the engine cover and apply ignition manually
- if you hit any other car, they'd burst in flames but keep driving

But hey, at least it looks cool:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2305/2487907094_dd6958a03e.jpg

[V.C. Sniper]

hell no i wouldn't buy it

[IanC]

But hey, at least it looks cool:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2305/2487907094_dd6958a03e.jpg

Ummm yeah, cool... :lol:

[shmall]

Hell YES, if i could buy any car that was as much fun as I'm having with SH5 for just £22...its a steal ;)



Simon

[Jimbuna]

My wife paid £24000 for a new audi A4TDI SE that has been in the garage 5 times since she bought it 2 years ago for electrical faults, one time she had been stranded at 11 o'clock PM miles from home due to the car stalling at a junction while being 7 months pregnant.
My £14000 new VW caddy van has been in 4 times for electrical and clutch problems since I bought it 12 months ago and has left me 10 tens with no van to work.
Trust me SH5 is nothing compared to the times I could have throttled the pricks that sold me those 2 cars.
They must have been built them on a friday lunchtime, I can just imagine the car builders tightening the engine block with 8 bolts instead of 12 to finish work early.

Damn disgrace!!

I usually purchase new and can honestly say, if I had a tenth of your misfortune I'd be demanding compensation or my money back.

I've a friend in Trading Standards who once advised me to purchase from only those dealers who offered interest free credit (keep yer dosh in the bank earning a little interest) then after three catastrophic failures/breakdowns you simply return the vehicle, cancel the interest free repayments and cite the fact that the merchandise is of a low quality and not fit for purpose.

I've never had to test his theory yet but I trust him enough to follow his advice.

[Sailor Steve]

If SH5 were a car would I buy it?

I've seen people talk about Audis, BMWs and VWs. For me it's as if I was told I could only drive it on the Nurburgring. Lovely track, but I can't get there.

So no, I wouldn't buy it as a car and I won't buy it as a game either, until they will let me play it.

[AVGWarhawk]

But hey, at least it looks cool:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2305/2487907094_dd6958a03e.jpg

The car does not look bad either. :D

[Nisgeis]

The car does not look bad either. :D

What car?

[JU_88]

My meaning with this is how can so many quality issues(bugs) pass green-ok status(quality control)?

Don't game companies test their final product before release or are they releasing bad quality to the consumers knowing they do?

I would be ashamed if I was responsible for releasing such a low quality product to the market.

And they don't seem to learn within this company relating to their previous releases.

Something is very wrong in a company when they release pisspoor quality like this.

BR Anders


Haha, the two are not really compariable, a badly tested game only poses the risk of frustration - and badly tested automobile poses the risk of physical injury or death. Bigggggg difference.

[IanC]

Haha, the two are not really compariable, a badly tested game only poses the risk of frustration - and badly tested automobile poses the risk of physical injury or death. Bigggggg difference.

Anybody gonna make a 'throwing the computer out the window and hitting a guy on the head' joke or shall I?

[Athlonic]

Of course I would buy a SH 5 car !

So beautiful and immersive ...

But I would never turn her off to be sure nothing's gonna be left out when restarting the engine.

:D

[gronbek]

If a car had comparable out of the factory quality as SH5 has out of the box and knowing about the issues I would certainly not buy it.

I want a car to be problem free and reliable.

I could never imagine to be required to mod my new car just to make it work satisfactory!

BR Anders

[Juliano]

maybe ride a bicicle or something instead?
just kidding, I don´t have the game yet :O:

[danurve]

No.

[Jimbuna]

Anybody gonna make a 'throwing the computer out the window and hitting a guy on the head' joke or shall I?


If your sicere and serious, I'll oblige :DL

[Vikinger]

I allways wanted a VAS LADA

http://www.rene-marc.com/photos/2006/ukefest2006_lada.jpg

The game. The car,,,,,,

[karamazovnew]

Anybody gonna make a 'throwing the computer out the window and hitting a guy on the head' joke or shall I?

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Film/Pix/pictures/2007/04/18/networkmadashell460.jpg

http://www.testandtry.com/wp-content/uploads/computer-out-window.jpg

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/07_02/receives220707_468x401.jpg

:yeah:

[Méo]

Why wouldn't you just throw the CD :06: ...:D

[EAGLE_01]

I haven't bought it yet, and don't plan too untill it's repaired. AS for it being a car, it depends on what kind of car. If it's like the one I just bought, problems and all, then YES


http://i46.tinypic.com/2jb1qtc.jpg


:rock:

[thruster]

interesting question.
are you an arcade player or a true fan of sub sims?
if you are an arcade player, then its all about shoot em ups, cheap thrills and mileage. your the boring practical car driver. you buy for the commute and to load shopping bags and pick up nanna from her podiatrist.
if your a sub sim player, you know your unique. your the unique car driver. your car is as tempermental as an italian pron star, but the ride is just too good to beat. you curse that the damn thing fails but you know youll be back for more. why? cos not only is this genre awesome, but its getting more and more authentic all the time. sure it will take time to perfect, but when theres such a small market, thats what you get.

so, what kind of driver are you? are you fair dinkum?
i love this genre. its the most well represented combat sim i know, and it allows me to command an [in]famous fighting unit in an increasingly authentic way. get this, i cant even play it!!! DRM kills me and excludes me; but i will still support it. i will buy it the first chance i see it cos i dont want it to stop. to me its worth it.

thank god for the mod community! cheers.

[Mr_Johnson]

If it was a car and I had a chance to test drive it first, No I would not buy it ......:stare:

[Armistead]

If SH5 were a woman, would you take it home....these questions could go on forever.

[jason210]

Would you want to buy a car that you can't steer properly, and doesn't have enough gauges to allow you to maintain situational awareness? Where half of your controls have been stripped away in favour of computer controlled automations that don't work properly? A car that's tethered with a long cable to the manufacturer so you never really own it, and they can pull the plug on you when they want? A car that comes with a bunch of crash test dummies in all the passenger seats? A car that sometimes just takes over completely and makes you wait while it does it's own little thing? A car that's designed for someone who is not interested in how it works or how to operate it, but who just wants to sit in it like press three buttons?

No, I would not want such a car. I'd want look to the second-hand market and buy a good classic car, that might not look as good as the one described above, but if looked after with care and attention will easily outlive it.

I'd buy a Silent Hunter 3, GWX.

http://www.britsattheirbest.com/images/life_morgan_car.jpg
My kind of car :-)

[609_Avatar]

Not the best analogy but I do get your point and no, I wouldn't buy it and this is the first one of the series that I'm not buying it. I posted this elsewhere:

All I can say about all of this is I'm really glad I haven't bought the game. I'm on the fence about some of the choices made for this version and quite happy about others. The over whelming majority of those that say they like it is because of its "potential" and not because of what it is now. Saying that's just the way it is because 3 & 4 were that way does not make it any more palatable at all and is just a sad statement of what we have come to accept. I won't purchase and support the DRM scheme chosen but if this is true (and I have no way of knowing either way and am not calling you in to question about it):

Originally Posted by BlueJ http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/viewpost.gif (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1306025#post1306025)
There already is:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...76&postcount=1 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1305076&postcount=1)that is just incredibly sad. Pirates get to "enjoy" the game when legit buyers can't. Also, imagine the poor sod who is new to this genre, and whom UBI has claimed to focus this release on, when they try to play this game in the state it is in... they have no clue about sites like this or that it can be modded or how to even implement mods. Do you honestly think they will come away with a positive impression of this type of game and this series in general? I don't, and I think that hurts the future of this series more than people like myself who have taken a stand against supporting OSP or even the pirates that hack the game. So in my mind, the only ones that are ultimately at fault for the fate of the game is Ubisoft because they have targeted the game towards the casual player but then give no adequate means of educating them on how to play the game (this all based on the reviews I have read to date and a piss poor manual) and released the game with too many bugs that the casual gamer will just not put up with, unlike the sort of folks who frequent sites like this and can be patient for modders to help fix things. Add to their frustration of having to deal with the OSP issues that are now at hand and you have an extremely negative imagine of the game and the company that released it. Great way to expand the game to the masses... :down: and I see that as the main reason for its' ultimate demise, if that does in fact come to pass.

[jason210]

Also, imagine the poor sod who is new to this genre, and whom UBI has claimed to focus this release on, when they try to play this game in the state it is in... they have no clue about sites like this or that it can be modded or how to even implement mods. Do you honestly think they will come away with a positive impression of this type of game and this series in general? I don't, and I think that hurts the future of this series more than people like myself who have taken a stand against supporting OSP or even the pirates that hack the game. So in my mind, the only ones that are ultimately at fault for the fate of the game is Ubisoft because they have targeted the game towards the casual player but then give no adequate means of educating them on how to play the game (this all based on the reviews I have read to date and a piss poor manual) and released the game with too many bugs that the casual gamer will just not put up with, unlike the sort of folks who frequent sites like this and can be patient for modders to help fix things.

Yes mate. Bloody stupid isn't it? I think this Franchise has been around too long. It would be nice to see something fresh.

[Aniuk]

I'll stick to my Volvo XC90 V8.:woot::woot::woot::woot::woot: The only thing they have in common so far. It's difficult to hit anything with the Volvo (Parking assist and BLIS (blind spot information system) onboard.) and SH V (used to SH IV).

happy hunting.

Aniuk

[oiler]

never :har:

[pythos]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2305/2487907094_dd6958a03e.jpg

I'll take both please :)

Now, about the game. Jason 210 brings up an EXCELLENT point.

I owned Sh2 for a few months before I happened upon Subsim, when I got tired of some stupid behavior of the game.

Ubi really could ruin people's attitude toward them putting out a incomplete product.

Too often I just think of the veterans of Sh, and forget, there could be new budding kaleuns, or skippers.

[Yak]

At least with a Prius the problem is it goes too well, SH5 doesn't go at all! :yeah: