SH5: The good, the bad, and the ugly

[Ducimus]

Well, ive been mulling over this for the last week, so here's my "review" of Sh5, off the cuff with no rough draft or other formal writing procedures one would follow to write a genuine article, just Duci shooting straight from the hip!


The Good...
Maestro, cue the music! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hYV-JSjpyU)

Graphics
Lets get this one out of the way. This game has eye candy in spades, which is no surprise, but it has impressed me.


Campaign
This is one of the biggest strong points of SH5. I like how the campaign missions have continuity and you feel like your contributing to a larger effort.
It's not just "go here, patrol this long, and come home" anymore. I found myself thinking about the larger stategic picture. In the past, it has been said by one (if i remember his words right) that you can have all the technical details right, but if the campaign isn't good, it doesn't really amount to much. SH5 delivers a knock out punch here.

On a side note I was particuarlly impressed when 6 destroyers shows up off the eastern britsh coast when i cut loose with a deck gun on a target that couldn't see me.


Crew Management
This is also one of SH5's stronger points. The developers have definintly learned from their previous games. Crew management in SH3 was a tedious exercise of moving widgets around the boat. in Sh4 it was pretty much a hands off affair and which had the side effect of keeping you at distance. In Sh5, your directly involved in a way that draws you in and creates a situation where you have to make decisions, and plan things out a little, in a way that i did not find tedious. Infact, i felt rather engaged with it.


The Interior
I have to admit, in the past, i didn't see much point in it. I wanted it, but could go without it if i had to. It is well done, and i do find myself feeling like im really on a submarine. I've always felt that feeling immersed, (not at the expense of functionality) is a large portion of a submarine sim, and SH5 has this in spades.



The "minimalist" UI
Say what you want, but i like the minimalist themeof the UI. There is something to be said about a UI that gives you information in a non intrusive way. I find it a welcome departure from the same ole same ole.

Note: I said theme of the UI, i'll take more about the UI further down.


Small improvements sneaking through the cracks
There are small things that are really great, but their minute that most will probably miss. Things like the Travel mode button (this is a godsend!), Rec manual filter (another god send, i hate flipping through umpteen pages), and a leaderboard, which is unfortunatly tied with DRM.

The leaderboard is great because you can see other "captains" at sea and how their doing. Gives me the impression, "hey, im not the only one out here, and look how So and So is doing!" If you recognize some of the names, it kinda develops more community i think.

Another small thing that escapes attention, but got the attention of LukeFF, was that guns, and conning towers, cause drag now. This is sim stuff here!! But its under the vaneer where you can't see it. Other improvements were increased use of compressed air. I love that! In sh3 and Sh4, compressed air may as well not have existed, but it is noticeable in a small degree in SH5. I also like the new captains log in how it keeps track of all occurrences instead of just ships sunk.

One more item is adjustments to the AI settings. Never before have you been able to establish a minmal visual threshold for night time seperate from the day time. It was always a fixed percentage. Now you can adjust it THIS IS HUGE.. Everyones always complained on why you can't just get right in with the convoys at night on the surface and be wtihin the close distances described in firsthand accounts... now you can!


Modablity
It has improved from previous titles. This is undeniable, and has to be mentioned.

The overall concept
The overall concept of this game, isn't a submarine simulation. It's changed from previous games. It is now a submarine captain simulation, as opposed to a strict technical simulation. This is not to say that the tactical, and technical elements are no longer there, they are, and have improved a little in detail under the hood of the game (as mentioned above).

One philopshy ive always had, particuarlly in my moddings, is that the player, as the captain, should be forced to make decisions. Your decisions mean life, or death, failure or victory for your boat and your crew. This game delivers that in a way i really like.


Overall potential
It's huge. Very huge, but it will take alot of time, and a whole new generation of modders. I might be mistaken, but i think alot of the "old guard" is worn out. I know i am.


The bad...
Maestro, cue the music! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLXQltR7vUQ)

The usual bugs & unfiinished state
I have to say this is no surprise to me. I've set the bar pretty low for Ubisoft, but this bears mentioning anyway. This is bad, but not UGLY because the game is in far better condition then SH4 was when it was launched. Some things should not have to be fixed by mod, but i will degress one point, that in working on a supermod, i have come to understand why some of these bugs get through. The things that bug me the most, are animation related.


World of Subcraft
Crew skills. Some of them are atrociously gamey and placed in the wrong place. A navigator that can increase my crush depth? Thankfully half of them make sense, but the other half deserve negative marks.


Post 43 Type 9
No, that isn't some piece of equipment. I understand that much attention to deliver what was delivered in the level of detail aspired, but the lack of at least a Type9B and Type9C is a negative in my book, and the war did not end in 43. Even though post 43 for the Kreigsmarine was tantamount to pissing in the wind, it should be there. I also put this as a negative, as it's a great "work around" from a developers point of view from having to work out all the technical upgrades and the campaign with a deadline looming large. In other words, I see what you did there ubi!



Game performance

Granted this is variable by end user machines, but im really bummed those shadows slow my machine to a crawl. Very pretty, but the overhead is massive. Other then that, some slowdowns, but nothing major.


The ugly...
Maestro, cue the music! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILB0yIn6jBg)

Missing functionality, a tale of the runaway deck gun.
While the minamlist theme UI is great, the lack of functionality is one of the.. no. it's THE biggest c**kblocker from enjoying this game. The lack of access to underlying functionality makes the game teeth gnashing obtuse.

So there i was, ghosting in for a night surface attack on a destroyer. Switching between UZO and biinoculars. Meaning to "lock" onto the destroyer, i pressed the space bar. Unfortunatly i did this while looking in the binoculars and not the UZO. The deck gun immediately started opening fire. Try as i might, i could not get them to cease fire by any means available to me except diving. Speeding away at maximum speed, the deck gun crew kept shooting. Eventually i noticed 5 other destroyers coming into the area. Thankfully, the "target" hadn't zeroed in on me yet. I had to shut this deck gun crew up soon, or else i would be spotted very shortly. The only option i had left was to dive. It was the only way to stop this.
Ugly.. pure ugly.


Unresolved base level bugs from SH4
Not gonna get into this too much, except that a couple huge bugs from SH4 that i would think would be the very first thing to do before bulding any new game on top of it didn't get fixed. Such as:

- The soundman not reporting "Depth charges in the water" doesn't appear to be working, (edited for clarity)

- depth keeping (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1307506&postcount=25) is still an issue.

- crew not switching to wet weather gear in high winds regardless of what you put in the cfg files. Rain only, rough seas, no. This also effects being able to man guns in heavy seas. They ALWAYS will because the limiting variable that says "seas too rough" is broken.

Insane, and Draconian Digital Rights Management.

'nuff said. This what is ultimatly dragging this game into the toilet.



I offer no final verdict, only what i see as good, bad, and ugly.

[Iliaz]

Maybe the most honest review (if you wanna call it that) on Silent Hunter 5 yet.

I said it before: I like it, but I see why people may dislike it. It really depends on the player this time, I think.

[Jeevz]

Pretty much sums up my thoughts, good post.

[Ablemaster]

Sums it up pretty well there, reading between the lines as to cut a long story short, Nice graphics, plenty of potential far too many bugs and DRM well nuf said. Nice review.

[Bilge_Rat]

very fair and balanced review. I would pretty much agree with it as is.

Another improvement I would mention is the fact that you can now see how the AI sensors operate with map updates "on". This makes it much easier to see what the AI sees as well as tweak it and mod it. It should make the process of making the AI more aggressive without being un-realistic much more accurate than was ever possible before.

[U56]

Bravo Ducimus, you have written exactly how I feel about this game. Well thought out synopsis!

Regards.

[Sailor Steve]

Good explanation. Thanks for that.

[alexradu89]

:yeah: for the songs!

[OneToughHerring]

Ducimus wrote that your actions influence the 'grander scheme of things', how does this actually work?

This is something that interests me, and sort of keeps me from fully going back to the ol' reliable SH3. Would be nice to have a realistic and dynamic world, and a kind of randomness that didn't really exist in SH3. Every sunken ship would have cargo and that would effect the transports etc.

Edit. Good review, and also thanks to Ducimus for modding SH3.

[kylania]

Excellent review

[Powerthighs]

Thanks for the review.

All in all, this is exciting. I'm holding off on buying the game until it is more polished, more mods are out, and (hopefully) the DRM is removed. But I will buy it.

The stuff you list in the Good section is great stuff that I'm really glad to hear is in there. It sounds like if they can clean up the other issues it will be a really solid product.

[Jimbuna]

Interesting reading...I must admit to not knowing what to expect when I opened the thread http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[JamesT73J]

Best review yet. Exactly what I'd expect from a top community chap. The funny thing is, I can see through all the jaded cynicism that, tired or not, you're going to keep going.

[Carotio]

You should have mentioned more bad elements. The song theme was too long, so it still played when I was finished reading about the bad parts... :03::D

Otherwise it seems balanced. I don't have the game yet, so it's nice to read.

[vonce1]

good review, many valid points

[Weather-guesser]

WOW Ducimus. That was outstanding. I honestly thought you were going to rip the game to shreds...well balanced and honest review IMO :yeah:

[Platapus]

Great review. Pretty straight forward and unemotional. I do have two questions I would like answered

Things like the Travel mode button (this is a godsend!)

What is this mode and what does it do?

- The soundman not reporting "Depth charges in the water" doesn't appear to be working, (edited for clarity)

This makes my brain stem hurt. Could you edit this for a bit more clarity for the slow kids in the back of the room?

Thanks for taking the time to write a pretty good balanced review of SHV. I have bought it but have not installed it yet.

[coronas]

Excellent reading.
Excellent OST.
:salute:

[drtechno]

How is that a good review in any sense of the word?
Graphics are expected to be better given the time separation from SH4.
Crew interaction is going to get VERY old when you are clicking through the same stupid 4 dialogue options your 10th time through the campaign. I dont see how people think this is a cool feature. Maybe the first 2 times through the game. Do you really care what happened to his brother if you have read the same dialogue 24 times before? Its just going to be a gamey/artificial, go here, click talk to this guy, rapidly click through all the tedious conversation, just to get your morale bonus and then go back to actually playing the game. 0 morale bug. Nuff said. Destroyers that artificially 'lock' onto your position and maintain that relative location no matter if you stop, go slow, turn or go fast... even if there is an island in their way. If I stop, they should try to close for the kill. Nuff said. What about sinking 5 (or was it 7) Brit carriers in one patrol? What the hell is that? How many do they have? :06:

The only thing that I agree (again, improved graphics are to be expected) is that the campaign seems more engaging. Seems pretty sad that this is the only positive this game has going for it.

The remainder is rife with bugs and crazy design decisions that just make my jaw drop.

[Bilge_Rat]

Platapus, travel mode is a new feature that allows you to keep a hi-TC without being dropped out whenever you receive a new radio message/contact report. Great when you want to cross the Atlantic.


One of the great things about SH5 is the many improvements under the hood that are not immediately apparent, for example improvements to the mission editor and the campaign engine, some of them are discused here:


http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=163364

[janh]

One of the great things about SH5 is the many improvements under the hood that are not immediately apparent, for example improvements to the mission editor and the campaign engine, ...


It would be too good if the developers could describe a few of them, because they probably real selling points to the SH community. How can you know the true potential of SHV if the new features remain hidden? Maybe someone should make a sticky thread and list all new features and changes with respect to SHIII (IV)? And maybe the devs could add to that, too?

[sergei]

(Travel Mode) What is this mode and what does it do?

Also very useful when entering or leaving home port. Does not drop you out of TC whenever you spot a friendly unit, which was mucho annoying in 3 and 4.

As for the depth charge warning: in SH3 when a destroyer close to you dropped charges you would get an audio warning "Wasserbomb", letting you know charges were being dropped close enough to you to potentially damage your sub. Very useful.
This audio warning never made it into SH4, and seems not to be in SH5. Pity, twas a cool and useful feature.

[Iron Budokan]

A very good and honest review that should be read by both camps. I've ripped this game (and Ubi), but you pointed out, quite rightly, that there are good things about it as well. Thanks for reminding me of that. :salute:

[Platapus]

Platapus, travel mode is a new feature that allows you to keep a hi-TC without being dropped out whenever you receive a new radio message/contact report. Great when you want to cross the Atlantic.


Also very useful when entering or leaving home port. Does not drop you out of TC whenever you spot a friendly unit, which was mucho annoying in 3 and 4.

That is a great feature! :yeah:

[tracker]

A very good review ,the good points are keeping me playing it ,i think the game needs to find a balance beetween moving around the sub and a direct link for the captain even if this a shouted request and answer type .
to all at subsim and moders:salute::salute::salute::salute:

[Ducimus]

Interesting reading...I must admit to not knowing what to expect when I opened the thread http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

Keeping ya guessing ain't i? What's this, Duci can put aside his own preferences and look at things objectively?! The hell you say! :haha:

You should have mentioned more bad elements.

Your right. I did not expand on the lack of functionality nowhere NEAR enough. From lack of TDC functions on spread, to being able to toggle off "fire at will" the lack of function access is FUGLY. I didn't harp on it nowhere near as much as it deserves.

WOW Ducimus. That was outstanding. I honestly thought you were going to rip the game to shreds...well balanced and honest review IMO :yeah:

I thought i would be too. :rotfl2:

How is that a good review in any sense of the word?


I never pretended to be a journalist, and i put review in quotations. My view comes from having dealt with this series for awhile, so im used to seeing a certain level of buggetry. Only the real crippeling issues, or things that can't be fixed by mod really grab my attention.

[sharkbit]

Nice review! :yeah:

Doesn't make me want to run out right now and buy it but it sounds like there is still hope for the diamond in the rough to be polished up.

:)

[Buddahaid]

I thought you weren't going to buy it Ducimus? Can't keep your hands out of the cookie jar anymore than I can. :D

[Ducimus]

Technically speaking i didn't buy it. My Girlfriend did. I am however, guilty of pointing it out on the shelf at best buy. :D

[Sailor Steve]

Ah, the horrible truth slowly leaks out.:rotfl2:

[mookiemookie]

My view comes from having dealt with this series for awhile, so im used to seeing a certain level of buggetry. Only the real crippeling issues, or things that can't be fixed by mod really grab my attention.

Great review. And I'm on board with this line of thinking too. In its current state, it's kind of frustrating for me to get into this game. But I'm going to bet the most egregious stuff (morale, phantom shadowing DDs, suicide ships in ports) gets either patched or modded to the point where it won't bother me anymore. So many people get so outraged over the bugs - and yes, rightly so - but I don't think people are seeing the big, long-term picture. Down the line, I think we're going to have a real charmer on our hands.

[Keelbuster]

Ducimus,

glad you're still here and give a damn even if you are exhausted by the unfinished crap that UBI has been passing off as sub sims since SH3. I just hope you and the other heavy modders aren't too tired to give it a chance on SH5. I liked your review and found it informative. It's too early to tell, I guess, but I'm wondering what your gut feeling is:

SH3+GWX,
SH4+TM(or whatever mod combo - i still haven't embraced SH4)
or SH5 + ???

IYHO, what will be the best overall sim by the standards of hardcore kaleuns?

[Ducimus]

IYHO, what will be the best overall sim by the standards of hardcore kaleuns?

I shouldn't answer this question, but i'll pull out the crystal ball of conjecture and stick my neck on the chopping block anyway......


It all depends if the DRM issues are squared away, and a decent mod team forms.. :hmmm: If that happens, I want to say that in a couple years, SH3 and GWX will probably only be thought of when some random person is waxing nostalgia, and SH4 + whatever mod of your choice will only be mentioned by PTO fans because it's the only game they have available to them. So i guess that kinda narrows it down to Sh5.

[Cptn_Enth]

I'm hoping that the same level of TLC that SH 3 received from the GWX team will be bestowed on SH 5 by the modding community.

After a little over a week, seeing the work that has been already done by the Modders, I feel very at ease that most, if not all, of the problems and missing functionality within the game will be resolved in short order...and that like Falcon IV, the game will hit it's stride only after we as a community roll up our sleeves, get up to our digital elbows in code and shape the game in our own image.

Thanks to Ubi for giving us the diesel/electric engines to power our boat...they just gotta get rid of the tether line (that is the DRM) which keeps us from putting to sea. I see that happening too, someday SOON(tm)...

Regards,

Enth

[Keelbuster]

I shouldn't answer this question, but i'll pull out the crystal ball of conjecture and stick my neck on the chopping block anyway......


It all depends if the DRM issues are squared away, and a decent mod team forms.. :hmmm: If that happens, I want to say that in a couple years, SH3 and GWX will probably only be thought of when some random person is waxing nostalgia, and SH4 + whatever mod of your choice will only be mentioned by PTO fans because it's the only game they have available to them. So i guess that kinda narrows it down to Sh5.

Ok..right on - thanks for the crystal ball work:).

Follow-up Q: tomorrow I'm going to pick up my new ASUS G73JH-A1 laptop. It will be the first upgrade I've had in 5 years so I will be able to play SH3 again, and god willing, SH4 and SH5. I had planned to pick up SH4 + uboat upgrade, plus mod it with the lastest supermod available for SH4 (though I haven't a clue what the 'best' is for sH4).

So question: IYHO, should I grab SH4 + uboat mod first, or should I shuffle into the world of SH5?

[Bosje]

proper review, kudos

tilting towards 'buy' now

[Jan Kyster]

Thanks for the review! :up:

SH5 would so much be in the collection if not for the DRM thing. Could easily live with the other minute "details", but not that...

So question: IYHO, should I grab SH4 + uboat mod first, or should I shuffle into the world of SH5?Will this purchase really overstretch your budget?? Can only recommend it, btw.

[Keelbuster]

Thanks for the review! :up:

SH5 would so much be in the collection if not for the DRM thing. Could easily live with the other minute "details", but not that...

Will this purchase really overstretch your budget?? Can only recommend it, btw.

It's a question of time commitment mostly. But given that I haven't upgraded my rig in 5 years (though sadly, I did buy a PS3), you might imagine that it _will_ stretch my budget. Not that my money is 'hard-earned' in the salt-mine sense, but at the same time i don't have a lot of it. Mostly I'm thinking about what will i focus my meager spare time on - a semi-working 'modern' sub sim, or a broken sim that might be seaworthy next year. I've been starved for tonnage, and with this upgrade just hours away, I need to know what is the best boat to board (maxing sea refs here eh).

[Ducimus]

Mostly I'm thinking about what will i focus my meager spare time on - a semi-working 'modern' sub sim, or a broken sim that might be seaworthy next year.

Since you put it that way, i'd get Sh4 with UBM (or SH4 gold)

- It's already polished (see mods)
- you have more choices available to you (PTO or ATO), almost like having two sims in one.
- no DRM, means you can play it anywhere, you don't need a constant network connection.

Depends on how much your willing to put up with as SH5 goes.

[Keelbuster]

Since you put it that way, i'd get Sh4 with UBM (or SH4 gold)

- It's already polished (see mods)
- you have more choices available to you (PTO or ATO), almost like having two sims in one.
- no DRM, means you can play it anywhere, you don't need a constant network connection.

Depends on how much your willing to put up with as SH5 goes.

Thanks dude - I want to have the sH4 experience anyway so I'll get it (with uboat addon). I've been interested in SH4, but my sys was ancient - even SH3 challenged it. I have been waiting to get back in the water, so I will certainly try SH4 before reinstalling sH3/gwx. Sometimes I wonder if SH5 was a ploy to get us to buy SH4...maybe UBI will publish an even more questionable SH6 to encourage interest in SH5...it could be weird like that.

This is OT, and I should probably ask in the mod forum, but I know you're the guy to ask and i have your local attention so:

what mod should I install over SH4 + uboat addon? Your enthusiasm for SH4 was large you're taste in sub mods is solid so...

And sorry for the OT guys. Har..latent burn on SH5..:)

KB

[Ducimus]

For ATO, your choice is limited, but the works are solid. If i was to play the ATO in SH4, these are the first two things id look into:
Operation Monsun (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=134922)
KiUB Kriegsmarine Interface for UBM (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=152590)

For the PTO you have two supermods:
Real fleet boat (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=159709)
Trigger Maru Overhauled (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=132330)

And one major campaign mod. Required for RFB, optional for TMO.
Run silent run deep (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=123467)


Now that all said, Im a fleet boat fan, and pefer the PTO, and have spent the last few years busting my balls to improve Sh4.. and yet here i sit wanting to play SH5. That must say something about it. Although, SH4 is just work to me, stopped being fun awhile ago. I recieve no joy playing it anymore because i ive spent too long modding it. *shrug* So take that last minute endorsement of SH5 with a grain of salt.

[Rockin Robbins]

From my standpoint it doesn't matter what good SH5 contains. The DRM is an absolute deal breaker. Since I already own SH3 and SH4 I'm not motivated at all to bow to a truly draconian punishment of legitimate purchasers.

Unfortunately, if you pay for the game, you give up your right to ask for a change. Your money has already spoken for you. It said,

"It's just fine for Ubi to produce a game "honoring" men in the military who are shunned: unable to play because on their ships, in their tents, they have no Internet connection. Let them play Frogger.

"It's just fine for Ubi to produce a game that counts all laptop owners with metered Internet connections as non-customers, as it would cost them too much money to play. If they can't afford it they can play Dig Dug.

"It's just fine for Ubi to produce a game that unnecessarily (and should be illegally) interferes with your ownership rights of your computer and your fair use rights for that game you "bought." You should EXPECT not to be able to resell the game. You should EXPECT to be punished for being stupid enough to purchase this debacle.

"Here's the money endorsing your decision to do all of the above. The game is so cool that none of that matters. In fact, you should use this cash to produce more and more draconian acmes of customer abuse. Let's see just how much the consumers of the world will tolerate! This is gonna be fun!:D"

This is where it would be appropriate for governments to become involved and bring this house of cards down. Any rights we have buying a book should also be enjoyed when purchasing a piece of software, including but not limited to: the right to resell, the right to lend, the right to use it without connection to the Internet, freedom from undue interference with our other sovereign property.

Piracy of my computer is NOT a proper solution for piracy of a game.

Some game companies have it right. Here is Stardock's Gamers' Bill of Rights:

1. Gamers shall have the right to return games that are incompatible or do not function at a reasonable level of performance for a full refund within a reasonable amount of time.

2. Gamers shall have the right that games they purchase shall function as designed without defects that would materially affect the player experience.

3. Gamers shall have the right that games will receive updates that address minor defects as well as improves game play based on player feedback within reason.

4. Gamers shall have the right to have their games not require a third-party download manager installed in order for the game to function.

5. Gamers shall have the right to have their games perform adequately if their hardware meets the posted minimum requirements.

6. Gamers shall have the right not to have any of their games install hidden drivers.

7. Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest version of the games they purchase.

8. Gamers have the right to use their games without being inconvenienced due to copy protection or digital rights management.

9. Gamers shall have the right to play single player games without having to have an Internet connection.

10. Gamers shall have the right to sell or transfer the ownership of a physical copy of a game they own to another person Amen brothers! Just think how successful Ubi could be if they quit beating on us who have spent and are willing to spend our money on their games so long as we are treated like valuable honest human beings.

[Ducimus]

Who can argue with that? I know i can't. That DRM has pissed me more then i care to admit. The only reason i have SH5, is because of a moment of shear, utter, weakness on my part when at the store.

[KiwiVenge]

Who can argue with that? I know i can't.

+1 here

By the way, lol @ your sig link Ducimus :)

[vonce1]

for a single reason I have a negative feeling about SH4 (in comparison to SH5); my few campaign(s) always ended with CO2 bug = crew being suffocated on the surface.

SH5 has good potential (I'm on 6th patrol and no co2 bug), just look what a few modders did to it within the first week, it's 1000% difference already from vanilla 1.0 release. Now UBI needs to get rid of DRM and fix thousand of bugs that are hard-coded, those that modders can't fix easily. But I think UBI doesn't give much crap what we want or not..so we'll see in upcomming weeks if thay care or not. I have a feeling that they don't care too much...

[Keelbuster]

For ATO, your choice is limited, but the works are solid. If i was to play the ATO in SH4, these are the first two things id look into:
Operation Monsun (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=134922)
KiUB Kriegsmarine Interface for UBM (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=152590)

For the PTO you have two supermods:
Real fleet boat (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=159709)
Trigger Maru Overhauled (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=132330)

And one major campaign mod. Required for RFB, optional for TMO.
Run silent run deep (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=123467)


Now that all said, Im a fleet boat fan, and pefer the PTO, and have spent the last few years busting my balls to improve Sh4.. and yet here i sit wanting to play SH5. That must say something about it. Although, SH4 is just work to me, stopped being fun awhile ago. I recieve no joy playing it anymore because i ive spent too long modding it. *shrug* So take that last minute endorsement of SH5 with a grain of salt.

_word_ - will check this s.t out asap..after i have the religious ceremony of bringing a new and wonderful computer system to life:)

KB

[CCIP]

I will definitely vouch for SHIV being super-recommendable at this point for people who hadn't played it yet or have only played it a long time ago. Great thing IMO to occupy your time while SHV hopefully gets much-needed fixing-up.

I did a full-war playthrough of OM leading up to SHV's release and I couldn't be happier.

As for Ducimius' review, :salute:

Actually that was more generous towards it than I'd expected from you, but all in all, I can't emphasize enough that under the unfortunately-obvious layer of unfinished-ness and crap that attracts too much attention in the game, there is a goldmine of extremely good stuff.

[JScones]

Nice. Thanks Ducimus. :up:

[THE_MASK]

I just bought SH5 . Cost me 90 bbbbbbbbbbbucks. Actually it seems to run better on my old laptop than SH4 . No shadows and no AA .

[EAF274 Johan]

I wasn't too worried about DRM before I got the game, but it soon became an annoyance: lost saved games, pop-up wiindows telling me that the saved games are being synchronized even when I turned this option off, and of course the dreaded "you are disconnected" even though my internet connection was working perfectly (strangely enough I could play on without problems after pressing Esc).

But even without DRM I would rate SH5 as poor. While some new features are nice (travel mode TC) or even good (minimap allowing you to check your solution without having to change to map view), there are so many things that are missing! I'm not talking about wishlist items, but basic stuff like Depth under keel, Follow sound contact, map coordinates. Then there are the things that were in SH3/SH4 but gone in SH5: animations for crew under stress or when repairing, flavour radio traffic, gramophone and radio, populated harbors and life boats, the list is endless. The new walk-around feature doesn't make up for that, IMO, and the RPG element is very linear (it doesn't seem that your choices have any impact on the storyline).

These things need to be fixed. I'm not too confident that it will happen through official patches, so it will be up to the modding community. SH V's saving grace is that it appears to be very moddable, but "of course there is a limit somewhere"' :03: Let's hope that the important stuff isn't hard coded.

I haven't mentioned realism yet. Even without the special crew abilities, you'll find your sub dives very fast, runs very fast, your crew reloads very fast. AI usually seems to be deaf and blind, and so does your crew. But right now, since so much basic stuff is broken, I would call these things of secondary importance only. I would implore the devs to fix the game, and let the modders take care of the realism.

I don't know of the English version, but the German localisation is full of errors, such as typos in map labels, reversed terminology (heading - bearing) and broken speech messages. Knowing from my experience as a translator, this should never have passed quality control. While this doesn't break functionality, it does make one suspicious: "if they can't even get this right, who knows what else is broken?".

BTW I'm not sure if I like the new campaign system. Will I have to start in September 39 every time?

[FIREWALL]

This is another reason I don't purchase a game thru a download.

I took mine back to BestBuy where I bought it on the weekend before preorders were delivered. :haha:

I took it back today for full refund.

No questions asked.

[Rockin Robbins]

for a single reason I have a negative feeling about SH4 (in comparison to SH5); my few campaign(s) always ended with CO2 bug = crew being suffocated on the surface.

SH5 has good potential (I'm on 6th patrol and no co2 bug), just look what a few modders did to it within the first week, it's 1000% difference already from vanilla 1.0 release. Now UBI needs to get rid of DRM and fix thousand of bugs that are hard-coded, those that modders can't fix easily. But I think UBI doesn't give much crap what we want or not..so we'll see in upcomming weeks if thay care or not. I have a feeling that they don't care too much...

Nor should they care about what you think. You paid them not to. People always do exactly what they are paid to do. Smooth move there.:down:

Millions for defense, not one penny for tribute.

[vonce1]

Nor should they care about what you think. You paid them not to. People always do exactly what they are paid to do. Smooth move there.:down:

Millions for defense, not one penny for tribute.

you're most likely right; UBI may give us one more patch and then they'll be over with this masterpiece - they have our $$$ in their pocket already

[Rockin Robbins]

Yes, I'm tired of being played for a chump by Ubi. Now they've taken away my right to buy a used game. Fortunately since suicide is part of their central business plan I will be able to pick up discarded games for free in the garbage after their demise. Typically the most unflattering stereotype of what it is to be French! But in this case, the stereotype fits like a glove. Idiots....:down:

[pythos]

Okay, enough of the BS.

Back to this even handed and well done review.

This review had most of the problems in it I have experienced.

In my opinion SH4 is a POS. Do people not understand that the watch crew should not have to be manually moved into the sub during a crash dive from a plane? I have lost so many crew that way. That to me is a game killer.

Something to OP left out is the screwy engine sounds. They increase and decrease in volume, not frequency. A bug Sh4 had, and was soon done away with.

The missing "follow sound contact" feature is one of many that Ubi did away with, for no apparent reason. But I think the patches may bring those back, or the modders will fix the problem.

I do like the crew interaction thing, I however would like the loafers in the quarters to actually move about the boat. But this may be a limitation in the way the rooms are laid out, can't be sure of that though. As far as the crew interaction and results, I am hoping this is stuff that can be made better by the modders, and myself, if I can get a hang of this Goblin thing.

I would like the navigator to get navigator abilities opposed to chief engineer duties.

and for the love of God....FLANK speed ahead or aft, NOT EXTREME, we are out of the 90s UBI!!!

The ship Id should be available whether using auto, or manual TDC, I like to know what I am shooting, even when being lazy with the auto. :)

This is the skeletal frame work of a submarine captain simulator, that I have faith is going to turn out to be a masterpiece.

DRM must die. It was wrong, and is ineffective. No one likes it in the community, and I wish Ubi would see this.

Alot of work went into this sim, A LOT. I am sick of seeing people dis the game and contribute not one bit of constructive criticism. Those who have returned the sim, are quitters. If you care about the franchise, get the damn thing back, and help.

[Méo]

Indeed, great review Ducimus.

It's refreshing to see, it differs a lot from subjective polarized opinions.

I particularly like this:

Keeping ya guessing ain't i? What's this, Duci can put aside his own preferences and look at things objectively?! The hell you say! :haha:

I never pretended to be a journalist, and i put review in quotations. My view comes from having dealt with this series for awhile, so im used to seeing a certain level of buggetry. Only the real crippeling issues, or things that can't be fixed by mod really grab my attention.