Sad times if you're a sub simmer

[TDK1044]

I posted this on 01/27.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1247913&postcount=1

I stand by every word of it. The only thing that makes anyone here defend Ubisoft in any way at all is the fact that they are the only Publisher currently producing a sub sim.

But is Silent Hunter 5 really a sub sim? Or is it an Arcade Game that can be modded to add more realism?

We have gone from this Publisher throwing buggy, unfinished games onto the market, to the same Publisher throwing a buggy, unfinished, inaccessible DRM arcade game onto the market.

How hard does Ubisoft have to laugh in our faces before we walk away? This game is not targeted at anyone connected to this Forum or any Forum like this one.

I think that anyone who paid $49 for this game is out of his mind. The writing was on the wall months ago. An arcade game is worth about $10, and this one will be found in bargain bins for that amount in about 6 months time.

I hope Ubisoft continues to patch it, but they might just walk away from it. I hope the modders continue to attempt to mod it. Somehow, I doubt it.

Sad times if you're a sub simmer.

[mookiemookie]

Thanks for the cheery start to my day! :rotfl2:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_q8kKvvkY0Kg/Rj6W8lqp2NI/AAAAAAAAAH0/nsnt317d118/s320/gun.jpg

[rsslcs]

Anti-DRM rants FTW! Very therapeutic. (if that's how you spell it.) Head to twcenter.net if you want even MORE ranting related to the Total War series of games! :haha:

[TDK1044]

Sorry, Mookie. :) At the end of the day, it's only a game. :DL

[Dowly]

The game is only arcade if you choose it to be arcade. :know:

[himlaviz]

Choose your game. Choose arcade . . . But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose arcade: I chose something else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got simulation?

[Commie]

Don't worry so much OP. Just ask yourself this: does SH5 represent something a lot better than SH3 and GWX? If not then why worry that it's DRMed, buggy, half-finished? I haven't seen a WW2 or any combat sim better than Il-2 and so I don't mind that companies aren't exactly rushing them out the door at the moment because I know they'd be crap.

UBI just has a captive audience because only they have the clout to really promote the franchise and this is what is limiting others from making sub sims as not only is it a small group(lets be honest) but with UBI cornering the market it leaves little room for others. It's not the 'SH' brand name as who cares?

If UBI leaves the sub genre then somebody will come along to fill it, don't you worry. Sub games were never plentiful even in the heyday of the mid-late 90's and with all the troubles we've still received one every few years(biggest break between SH2 and SH3). Maybe Akella would step in? They already started to get experience with PT Boats, so wouldn't be a stretch to think that they could make a sub sim worthy of the genre(and for those eye candy whores, PT boats looks a lot better than SH5).

[Safe-Keeper]

I didn't pay $50, I paid 349 Norwegian crowns:up:. Normally games in this country cost 500+.

Face it, people, it was very likely either this or no Silent Hunter 5 at all. Ubisoft is a company as much as your local barbershop, and they have the right to cater to the group they want, be it hardcore sim fans or Modern Warfare kiddies with thirty second attention spans.

I don't like the arcadeish and bug-ridden nature of the game myself (seriously, "Radioguy"? "Extreme speed"?), and I'm sorry for being such a fan boy, but I'm not judging Ubi too harshly until I know for sure I've got reason to.

Oh, and I did my part against harsh anti-piracy measures yesterday, when I purchased a one-month subscription to Spotify. Dislike overly strict anti-piracy measures? Stop pirating games and they'll go away:up:.

[mookiemookie]

Maybe Akella would step in? They already started to get experience with PT Boats, so wouldn't be a stretch to think that they could make a sub sim worthy of the genre(and for those eye candy whores, PT boats looks a lot better than SH5).
Akella? You want a subsim that's the level of quality of KNOTS?

[stabiz]

Nobody wants that.

[AVGWarhawk]

The game is only arcade if you choose it to be arcade. :know:


I would go with this assessment. Dowly is having a blast with it. 1X play with enigma coding thread.

I was playing last night(no mods) and started my second patrol. I gave some experience points to my hydrophone man. He now will listen for ships. Before he would just say, "I can not do that right now." So, yeah, working your crew does help.

Bugs? Can not say any have ruined my day. DRM has not ruined any of my days yet! Knocks on wood...:shifty:. Personally, straight out of the box the game is very cool and enjoyable. :up:

[Turbografx]

Call Norm Koger at Storm Eagle Studios. Or the guys at Eagle Dynamics.

Mmm, mmm, Fidelity!

[Blood_splat]

I feel like Ubisoft mugged me in the street with a gun, and stole my wallet with 50 bucks inside it.:wah:

[CCIP]

You make some valid criticisms, but I think the word "arcade" that you and some other people throw around is complete nonsense. It's exactly the kind of attitude that is killing simulation games as much as DRM and bad publishers are killing simulation games. Let's not be snobs, shall we?

Besides, that is a pretty unfair assessment of SH5 - flawed it is, "arcade" is a completely nonsense term for it. It's about as valid a description and as gross an exaggaration as the infamous backlash of fans of SHIII against SHIV against the PTO because supposedly American submarines are crap and the US sub campaign was boring.

[Commie]

Akella? You want a subsim that's the level of quality of KNOTS?

Akella was just a suggestion, and really if it's to be something like SH5 or PT boats, I'd pick PT boats. Akella are awful with their bugginess, but the SH series is untouchable in that regard. Eagle Dynamics (buggy as well) or 1C Maddox are my preferred choices, but they are busy with flight sims ATM.

Funny mentioning the guru of war games Norm Kroger. Would be great to have a strategic campaign overlay on the SH campaign, where you can actually win the war for the Germans, by directing submarines to various areas and being able to take over any of them if you want.

[Bilge_Rat]

Call Norm Koger at Storm Eagle Studios. Or the guys at Eagle Dynamics.

Mmm, mmm, Fidelity!

no market for sub sims, if there was, other companies would be producing them.

Sonalyst produced very realistic sub sims, "Sub Command" and "Dangerous Waters", no one bought them.




TDK1044, thank you for the post, had a good laugh over that one..:rotfl2::rotfl2::har::har:

[Jeevz]

Choose your game. Choose arcade . . . But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose arcade: I chose something else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got simulation?

:har: Brilliant!

Try to stay out of the Worst Toilet in Deutschland when you're back from patrol.

[himlaviz]

I see SH5 as a long time investment, I hope for some patch to get the core game (as designed) to get fixed and bit polished by the devs and hope for a mod like GWX/NYGM to take SH5 even further when it comes to historical and realistic aspect of the game where the devs can't dig as deep due to a timescheduale and limited resources.

Sure maybe the patches wont fix the game, maybe there is no more patches (but I don't think so), either way I have lost $75 (d2d US site + VAT) for far less return value back on other happenings/things/stuff then what I already have had with Silent Hunter 5.

For the time being I am enjoying the stuff that works and learn how to play the game as it's designed and not SH3 v2.0.

Also have an idea for a mod for more interaction with the crew to talk to them for feedback of things that I feel is missing, like depth, do a full sweep, follow nearest contact and so on. Keep in the spirit of SH5 with interacting with the crew instead of or as a complement to key commands.

Like standing next to the sonar crewman and listen and asking him of updates while slowly trying to sneak away from a destroyer.

[Iron Budokan]

I was playing last night(no mods) and started my second patrol. I gave some experience points to my hydrophone man. He now will listen for ships. Before he would just say, "I can not do that right now." So, yeah, working your crew does help.



He will now listen for ships.

*Sigh* :shifty:

[Drifter]

SH5 is quickly becoming less and less arcadish. Check out my recent mod that removes all crew 'superpower' abilities. :|\\

http://174.123.69.202/~subsimc/radioroom/showthread.php?t=164391 (http://174.123.69.202/%7Esubsimc/radioroom/showthread.php?t=164391)

[Commie]

no market for sub sims, if there was, other companies would be producing them.

Sonalyst produced very realistic sub sims, "Sub Command" and "Dangerous Waters", no one bought them.




Sonalysts make military grade sims, so marketing for mass exposure isn't really their thing, just as with eSIM games and their Steel Beasts. What you don't realise is that these games didn't seem to threaten the existance of the company, so they weren't a wasted investment. They sold enough to cover costs and make a bit. This is what i'm talking about: Sonalysts and eSIM didn't have a big publisher to promote their wares. UBI CAN promote SH, so even a half finished SH can be sold off as the greatest thing since sliced bread because there's no room for anyone else at the moment. If UBI buggers off to the console market, you'll see a new WW2 sub sim come cautiously into the light within a year or two.

[IanC]

Ubisoft is a company as much as your local barbershop, and they have the right to cater to the group they want, be it hardcore sim fans or Modern Warfare kiddies with thirty second attention spans.


It's more like Ubisoft is the only barbershop in town, and he keeps giving me bad, half finished hair cuts. So bad, I have to go home and have my wife fix it a little.
I'm just about ready to tell that barber to kiss my arse.

[JamesT73J]

There's something missing in the Esim / ED argument: Their consumer products are related to their contractor work. Esim don't tend to release vehicles for SB ProPE that nobody is using, because why invest time in something that is not going to benefit their military efforts? ED are the same; the tech is a continuation of their work.

Bohemia Interactive, anyone?

We won't see a u-boat sim from anyone else. UBI are presently the only game in town.

[141st_Alper]

Eagle Dynamics (buggy as well) or 1C Maddox are my preferred choices, but they are busy with flight sims ATM.

Im not looking to positive for eagle dynamics. Yea they can handle a subsim. But un-moddable subsim. At least modding the Lock on Flaming cliffs is a torture chamber for modders. We just can change some 3d model files and textures. Thats all.(no script work, no custom cockpits etc etc..)

[OakGroove]

Sonalysts make military grade sims, so marketing for mass exposure isn't really their thing, just as with eSIM games and their Steel Beasts. What you don't realise is that these games didn't seem to threaten the existance of the company, so they weren't a wasted investment. They sold enough to cover costs and make a bit. This is what i'm talking about: Sonalysts and eSIM didn't have a big publisher to promote their wares. UBI CAN promote SH, so even a half finished SH can be sold off as the greatest thing since sliced bread because there's no room for anyone else at the moment. If UBI buggers off to the console market, you'll see a new WW2 sub sim come cautiously into the light within a year or two.

:up:
This is what i´m hoping for. eSim Games and Bohemia Interactive didn't start out with military contracts, eventually their engines were evaluated and found fit for purpose as mil training tools.

[Jeevz]

What military would be interested in a U-Boat or Fleet Boat training sim?

[IanC]

What military would be interested in a U-Boat or Fleet Boat training sim?

You don't know about the time machine project? It's all about ending the war sooner and... I've said too much already. :shifty:

[OakGroove]

We can exclude the USN showing interest in a WW2 submarine game, that goes without saying. That's not what i was about. It´s about opportunities opening up for smaller companies, that do not have 8 million USD to spent on just producing a game advert.

[Weather-guesser]

Thanks for the cheery start to my day! :rotfl2:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_q8kKvvkY0Kg/Rj6W8lqp2NI/AAAAAAAAAH0/nsnt317d118/s320/gun.jpg

You're too much! :har:

[FIREWALL]

This game has been out only since March 2nd.

While not the biggest hit Worldwide as everyone thought it should or would be.

The best I can makeout on this website is about 50\50.

You either love it or hate it.

One thing that is disturbing is the posts that say " Ubisoft could just walkaway from this game. " is RIDICULOUS.

[redcoat22]

The OP thinks the game isnt worth $49? I would have paid $150 to support the development of genres I enjoy. Please Mr. OP, what sub sim would you pay $49 for? Aces of the Deep? SH3? Did you design your own and sell it for less?

If the price of a nice dinner is too much for you to handle perhaps you should remember what computer games cost in 1987.

Why you are in a forums of a game you won't purchase is beyond me. At least buy it then complain because it doesnt do something you want it to do.

[LiveGoat]

I don't know about arcade. Certainly there are way too many help pop ups and one could argue that the rpg element is arcadey but the core of the game so far feels to me very much like past couple SH games. Short of the knob twiddling of the TDC I can do pretty much everything that I did in 3 and 4.

Are there problems? Sure. The AI is dumber than a bag of turds, there's a limited number of ship models, crew aren't responding like they should and there are historical anomalies but hey, it's Ubi, what's new?

I'm still all for the series being dropped and picked up/rebooted by someone else though. All this "we have to support the genre" doesn't matter. Someone will make a U-boat game somewhere if Ubidongs doesn't. And the DRM will get patched out eventually, one way or another.