complete noob question about firing torpedoes and other things

[yanquis1972]

so i'm on my 2nd patrol after sinking about 45K tonnage. i have no mission, but from what i've read this an acceptable glitch and you're supposed to reach 100k (could someone confirm this please). well after 3 game days of scouting off the costs of england and having no luck i couldn't believe my eyes: 7 troops transports. huge tonnage i'm sure, plus great torp practice (i've been having to use the deck gun which is boringggg unless i'm somehow doing it wrong....it takes 50 shells to sink any ship)

the setup atm is i am undetected and on their flank, idk how many meters or kilometers but surely in firing range, and i'm slightly ahead of them so i can close the gap a bit: i could open fire now, i could attack them from the rear, i could try to sneak right into the thick of t hem and pop out which would be really cool but

a)if i dive i just hit bottom; i can't figure out how to stop diving or set a specific depth
b)much more importantly well three times now i've tried various technique 3 times now firing off all my torpedoes into this convoy, most/all of them at the closest ship. this thing fills up the friggin periscope. and i can't hit it. i turn off TDS, get a green light, fire, i move the mouse a bit to where it's still green, fire, move it in the other direction to where it's still green, fire, all misses. etc. etc. etc.

c)i understand torps are at fore and aft of ship, so i've tried facing, facing way, broadside to broadside (seems to be worst obviously)...what the hell am i doing so seriously wrong. my fwiw my torps are a mix of electric & gas ones.

thanks a LOT for thelp, this seems like a great game but this is ruining it for me. shouldn't i have a guy who charts torpedo path and fires on my command -_-

[Barosx2]

There is a great thread here with some great tips http://www.subsim.com/radioroom//showthread.php?t=164131

Manual or Auto TDC :)

[Juliano]

:o

So, fast 90 technique doesn´t work?
Aw man... That´s it! I´m not buying the game at this current state :stare:
Gonna wait till more patches/mods are out.
I´m going back to SH4+OM :sunny:

EDIT: Oooops, sorry. Didnt see the link. Yet, I´m still not buying the game in its current state =/

[yanquis1972]

:o

So, fast 90 technique doesn´t work?
Aw man... That´s it! I´m not buying the game at this current state :stare:
Gonna wait till more patches/mods are out.
I´m going back to SH4+OM :sunny:

i dont know. i know nothing about subsims, subs, or even this game :) that's why i say 'complete noob'

also if i turn on the electric thing (TDS or whatever) i get no arrows for some reason...so i may be making it even more difficult somehow? i don't know, i just know i have this really awesome setup & i can't seem to do anything with it. i'd like to sink at least 3 of these ships. before i dive and flee like crazy :salute:

[Frederf]

The "no available mission" bug should be solved by starting a new career but skipping the tutorial when asked. The two missions initially are a lesser tonnage requirement on Britain's east coast and a larger tonnage from the SW passage. You'll also see a completed mission near Poland which is your tutorial mission (skipped). It looks like each mission is worth mission points (iron cross icons) and when you get enough in the overall meter you unlock the "success" branch of the overall war campaign.

Deck gun is overpowered in SH5. Realistically you should probably run out of ammo before you sink 1 large ship. The sinking mechanics are in stupid mode in stock where sinking by flooding is nearly impossible so you have to reduce ship HP to 0.

My suggestion is to fall back to where they are just visible, put them on a 090/270 bearing and proceed at flank to get well ahead of them, I mean so AOB is +/-15°, dead ahead. As you win the race they will drift back in bearing, keep turning so they are about at 090/270 bearing. Turn away if you get closer and turn toward if they drift out of sight. This is the "end around" using the "normal approach course," normal meaning at right angles/perpendicular. Once you're in the narrow "dead ahead" cone, turn directly to, slow down, and submerge when you are at risk of being spotted.

a) The preset dive buttons in the lower left are surface (4m, R), periscope (~22m, F), dive (40m, V), and crash dive (100+m). You can also select any depth manually by using the advanced scale. The advanced scale is shown by holding down Ctrl or pressing the little round dot toggle in the lower right corner of that whole speed-depth part of the UI.

b) Make sure you're not inside 400m or so, there's a minimum arming range. Also the "easy targetting" doesn't work the same as SH3/4, it requires more thought. Check the TAI minimap to see where the target is and where the torpedo is going. Depending on settings the torpedo will fire straight ahead or try to follow your periscope bearing. The #1, #2, #3 marks on the map represent future positions of both the target and the torpedo. Lining up the torpedo #2 with the target #2 symbol indicates that if fired immediately the torpedo and target should both occupy that position at the same time (which we like to call a boom).

c) This shouldn't matter as long as you're not trying to shoot something in front of you with an aft torp or vice versa. The torpedo can only turn through about max 135° either way, not 180º.

P.S. So, fast 90 technique doesn´t work?
Aw man... That´s it! I´m not buying the game at this current state

Fast-90 works fine... if you use the real man's targeting. The "easy mode" is severely neutered and trying to do advanced techniques with easy targeting is like trying to do a motorcycle burnout with a pink Huffy ^.^

[yanquis1972]

thanks for the great reply fred, very informative. i don't recall a tutorial option which of course i gladly would've taken, so i may restart but if im also already at 46K & if i handle just this situation right i should be up close to 100K.

i'l try your technique first, falling back, getting ahead, and stalking a bit. i figured being perpindicular was best since it presents the broadest targets.

i tried again btw & managed a grand total of 2 hits. the #s thing confuses me. my range isn't what i consider terribly far but there is no chance the 1 and 2 will ever line up. sometimes the 3s line up perfectly but even then, it's not guaranteed, i sometimes feel i need to set it ahead of what the game tells me.

btw, can anyone explain to me what "TDC" is, & what the point of this TDS is (i think it's just ship detection but why should that matter with torpedo firing)? i am guessing i'm supposed to have it off when firing? (otherwise i get no markers like i said)

[Sailor Steve]

Torpedo Data Computer. It's the machine that takes all the information the captain and crew feed into it and plots the angle the torpedo's gyroscope needs to intercept the target.

[Juliano]

Fast-90 works fine...

Not all hope is lost, i see... :hmmm:
Still, I think I´ll wait till the game is fixed and is more "playable" (I´m afraid to just waste my money and get realy depressed by buying a not even half baked product)
I´ve been reading some creepy stuff here and on UBI foruns...

Guess I just need to be patient and wait:-?

[Frederf]

You can always start a new career to try this out and then go back to your old save game.

Perpendicular (or even a few degrees past if you want to get super mathematically optimal) is good for the attack phase which is after the approach phase. It normally works out (math pun) that if you are in front of the target after the end around and then keep your sub's nose pointed at the target then as he passes to either side you will end up some time at right angles to his course. This also works well to make you a small cross section target vs. escort sonar.

The #s thing is a weird to both of us. I understand how it works but I much prefer doing it the 100% realism way (and even that is pretty arcade compared to reality). But I suppose if you can learn how to hit a target with a straight firing torpedo based on simple "leading" (which is basically what all WWI submarines did) then that's a good beginning to understanding more complicated concepts.

We know that firing when two matching #s overlap should result in a hit, but why is that? Lets look at the torpedo's #-path first. This is the line and #s originate from the bow of the submarine. The line connecting the numbers if the path the torpedo will take. The #s show where the torpedo will be at some future times. #1 might be 30 seconds after firing, #2 might be 60 seconds, #3 might be 120 seconds (I don't know the real times). If you change torpedo speeds to a faster setting you will see the #1 #2 and #3 get farther apart since a faster torpedo travels farther after 30 sec, 60 sec, and 120 sec respectively.

Looking at the target's #s we see that the #1, #2, and #3 are placed along the path the target is going (in front of its bow) with #3 being the most ahead and #1 being just barely in front. Notice closer together than those belonging to the torpedo path since the target ship is going much slower. The #1 represents where the target will be 30 seconds into the future with #2 being 60 sec and #3 120 seconds.

Firing arbitrarily (non hitting) solution we can watch what happens. Hitting the fire button and starting the stop watch. T=0 seconds, everything is in the position it was at launch. T=30 seconds; the ship now occupies the position where the #1 marker used to be at (when T=0). Also the torpedo has reached its #1 marker position. T=60 seconds; the target ship is at the #2 marker position and the torpedo is at its #2 marker. And so on.

To get a hit the torpedo and the target ship have to be at the same place at the same time. You could (for example) accomplish this by lining up the #1s for both paths and firing. The target ship would travel 30 seconds along its path and the torpedo 30 seconds along its path and 30 seconds after firing the two would be in their #1 marker positions (which are the same position) so they are in the same position. Boom.

Now this isn't always possible to line up exactly #1 with #1, #2 with #2, or #3 with #3 but there is hope. You can imagine a "#2.5" for example that is half way between and #2 and #3. If the ship is going to be at its #2 marker in 60 seconds and its #3 marker in 120 seconds then it's going to be half way between markers #2 and #3 half way between 60 and 120 seconds (90 sec). Thus if the target path and the torpedo path lines cross such that the intersection is at this imaginary "#2.5" from the target path and the imaginary "#2.5" from the torpedo path, that is also a solution for a hit. 90 seconds after firing the target will travel "two and a half markers" and the torpedo will travel "two and a half markers" and collide.

Then this concept is extended to any imaginary marker pair. If you line up "#1.3" on the target path with "#1.3" on the torpedo path then you'll get a hit.

TDC is an English word (in German it's called something else VDK or something) in U-boats was just a fancy mechanical calculator that you entered range, AOB, speed, etc on dials and it calculated the setting on the torpedo that controls how much the torpedo turns after it leaves the tube (called the gyro angle because gyroscopes inside the torpedo is how it measures how far it has turned). In SH5 you never get your hands on the actual TDC machine so all most calculations done behind the scenes are just "TDC-like" in behavior.

The game has two major targeting modes. With "TDC off" it assumes you want to "shoot from the hip" and it displays the helper #s. With "TDC On" it assumes you want to do a more calculated, precise targeting and hides the #s. The #s are the "backup" method.