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JamesT73J
03-09-10, 06:22 AM
Hi all,

It may be because I'm a little older and wiser, and have observed this before with titles past. Or, it may be because I'm a little fed up with the loudest negative voices; I'm not actually sure.

SH5 has been released to huge expectations; arguably greater than any preceeding U-Boat simulation. This is largely due to the after-market open source support - the shine & polish that Silent Hunter 3 & 4 now exhibit thanks to work by a talented modding community. An effort that - in time and therefore monetary terms - the developer cannot hope to compete with. It is literally thousands of man hours. A superb case study on the fruit of organised open source collaboration.

SH5 is a solid base to work from. Fundamentally, it is stable; it has bugs. This is not unprecedented in a simulation release. In fact, it is now an the norm for mainstream niche releases.* As has been iterated before, developers are very likely working to extremely tight deadlines, and they are exercising good discipline (believe it or not) in focusing on what works. I am positive they want more time to complete their schedules, however this costs money, and therefore margin. This means that features are dropped or non-functional, legacy bugs are still not sorted out, because it has likely already been established that investigating those will compromise the deadline. Remember, the goal is to ship the software on the contracted date.

Is this a good thing? Of course not. Am I happy about it? No.

However, these are the conditions in which the Silent Hunter series have come to us. The community prime-movers are already producing content that warms the heart, and in time (I've no doubt UBI are making money on this) the patches will come.

Speculatively, SHV will not be fully fixed by the publisher. None of the predecessors have been. The reasons are outlined above. That is the reality of the situation, and unfortunately, we the consumers have to deal with that.

I've read a post on this forum stating that UBI should drop the SH series, and another publisher should have a go. Who, exactly? I've read posts stating that the game doesn't work. It empirically does work. I've read posts stating that it is inferior to GWX. Of course it is. SHV was never going to compete with five years of development from a huge base of talent.

There have been complaints that only one U-Boat is modelled, and that the war ends in '43. From a development point of view, it does make sense. The boats themselves are way, way more detailed; I expect there simply wasn't scope (time!) to incorporate more than one basic type. As for the finish date, it is possible they're looking at DLC post-'43. Things were very different in '43-45. Chances are they're looking at a development fork to incorporate the tech changes on both sides. FIDO, Hedgehog, Squid, Naxos, Snort masts done properly etc, along with the X-boats, Monsun missions etc.

As for DRM, to borrow a phrase, hard cases make bad law. That's all I'll say on the ethics of it. As for the operation, I'm not surprised it went tits-up. Online resources always do, first time. It is deeply frustrating. I'm sure they'll sort it, not that this is an endorsement of the idea.

Patience, patience.

James




*There are exceptions. DCS/Eagle Dynamics are interesting. Freed from UBI and sustained from freelance work, they produced Black Shark. Stable, impressive, and they take their time. Check them out. Esim (Steel Beasts ProPE) seem to follow the same practice. These are all too rare examples, though.

Feuer Frei!
03-09-10, 06:26 AM
Good post :up:
I concur fully......
sometimes cool heads are needed.

funkster319
03-09-10, 06:37 AM
Agreed

reaper7
03-09-10, 07:08 AM
Well said JamesT73J, couldn't agrre more. I for one am very happy of my purchase. An even more happy each day I log on and find more and more excellent mods being released, and its only been a week.

Immacolata
03-09-10, 07:18 AM
Hi all,

It may be because I'm a little older and wiser, and have observed this before with titles past. Or, it may be because I'm a little fed up with the loudest negative voices; I'm not actually sure.

Concur. Every god damn bilge rat seems it is their holy plight to step up on the soap box and repeat the same inane rubbish.

Preferably with a title that is rich in hyperbole and high on the attentionwhoring scale. "This is the end of SH5" or "A disaster." etc. Sigh.

Are you aware, negative bilge rats, that everytime you spew your vomit here, you mess the deck up for everyone else? We all know it is a storm, so please, don't rock the boat any more ok? Contribute to the MANY whinge threads already instead of launching your own time after time.



However, these are the conditions in which the Silent Hunter series have come to us. The community prime-movers are already producing content that warms the heart, and in time (I've no doubt UBI are making money on this) the patches will come.

Speculatively, SHV will not be fully fixed by the publisher. None of the predecessors have been. The reasons are outlined above. That is the reality of the situation, and unfortunately, we the consumers have to deal with that. And that is sad. It is, however, also a very good track record to know whether to stay away or not from the game. You know ubi does not have the muscle to follow their ambitions, so they leave many flaws left in their product once they move on. I know from SH3, SH4. And that is why I will buy this game first when I can taste on these boards that the mood is positive and major flaws eliminated.

I dont even want to count modders into this. Automatically assume that modders will do any kind of work is a fallacy. The game should be very enjoyable as it is, given proper patching. Once that day is there, and the DRM stable, I am buying.

I've read a post on this forum stating that UBI should drop the SH series, and another publisher should have a go. Who, exactly? I've read posts stating that the game doesn't work. It empirically does work. I've read posts stating that it is inferior to GWX. Of course it is. SHV was never going to compete with five years of development from a huge base of talent.That is what I mean. All this "The sky is falling" bull****.

As for DRM, to borrow a phrase, hard cases make bad law. That's all I'll say on the ethics of it. As for the operation, I'm not surprised it went tits-up. Online resources always do, first time. It is deeply frustrating. I'm sure they'll sort it, not that this is an endorsement of the idea.

Patience, patience.
Yes, the DRM is arguably bad. But if you, dear subsim.com reader, ever in your entire life pirated ONE game for the Windows platform, you are part of the reason why we today have arrived at such drastic measures on the pc platform. Think about that.

BlackSpot
03-09-10, 07:31 AM
Are you aware, negative bilge rats, that everytime you spew your vomit here, you mess the deck up for everyone else? We all know it is a storm, so please, don't rock the boat any more ok? Contribute to the MANY whinge threads already instead of launching your own time after time.

Absolutely! Can we please curb the "ha ha" - it's not constructive. :DL
It reminds of a reply I've seen so often on the web when people have genuine issues with their PC. The reply being "Go buy a Mac"

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/4258/hahasimpsonsg.jpg (http://img203.imageshack.us/i/hahasimpsonsg.jpg/)

Feuer Frei!
03-09-10, 07:59 AM
Concur. Every god damn bilge rat seems it is their holy plight to step up on the soap box and repeat the same inane rubbish.
I reckon half the time it's a case of "gotta get my post count up"
the other half of the time it's "ooops, i didn't realize that had already been posted somewhere else"

Onkel Neal
03-09-10, 09:10 AM
Hi all,

It may be because I'm a little older and wiser, and have observed this before with titles past. Or, it may be because I'm a little fed up with the loudest negative voices; I'm not actually sure.


:sign_yeah: Thanks, James, for the positive and reasoned approach to making a post. Wish we had more of that here. Reminds me of the Old Man in Das Boot, very cool guy while everyone was going crazy at the nightclub around him.

Akula
03-09-10, 09:32 AM
Excellent post indeed,

I have been giving out about the DRM mostly as I still think it is an abomination and dracionian measure to enforce on legitimate paying customers.

Moving on though as I did actually managed to play the game sometime later yesterday after all the troubles.

I have to say that I was in fact rather impressed. I do have SH3 with GWX and SH4 with Op Monsun and RFB.

The base here leads to tons of potential and I know that the modding talent of this community is probably drooling and excited to take it and truly give it wings... or ballast tanks... for the lack of a better expression.

I don't think it was ever said that in complexity it will stand up to previous versions, however this did not bother me.

There are features missing and half finished which scores of fans here have already posted on, so I won't go back into that.

For me the bottom line is, when I started playing, I had that great feeling of playing a timeless sim classic, like European Air War, or Red Baron. I got this RPG story feel which I actually quite like. I loved that you could walk around in the U-Boat pen too.

I am hoping that we do get DLC and perhaps another U-Boat (perhaps long distance bigger IXC or IXD type and the cherry on the cake a XXI, but that is just greedy :) )

I have great hopes for this game and in today's Nintendo climate, I am for one greatful that we still get games like these made. As mentioned above it is not the devs fault for ommiting stuff or bugs that are still around. This is the nature of the beast when it comes to gaming software and publisher deadlines, to the detriment of us all but they cleary they had much love and dedication for the subject matter.

It is just a great pity that the DRM farce is actually overshadowing the diamond in the rough here, the actual game which is actually quite good out of the box, and will become probably the King of the Deep in the not so far future.

ReM
03-09-10, 09:47 AM
Good post and a welcome voice of reason.