Yes I do blame Ubisoft

[wetwarev7]

I've seen a few posts that claim that pirates or hackers are to blame for me not being able to play SH5, not Ubisoft, and that I should be mad at them and not Ubisoft.

Well, I totally disagree with you. (Well, ok maybe half...)

For whatever the reason it is that the servers are down, Ubisoft has dropped the ball in not having a contingency plan to ensure the people who paid them money would be able to play the game. MMORPGs have been around long enough that Ubisoft should have known this might be a possibility and should have taken steps to have a backup plan in the event something like this happened.

Saying Ubisoft is not to blame for preventing me from playing SH5, which I paid for in good faith, is just not right. THEY made the decision to go with this setup, THEY chose not to have a backup plan in place.

I pay for my video games. I take pride in that. When my friends or coworkers talk about how they've got a pirated movie or game, or ask me to give them a copy, I give them hell for it! That's about as far as my responsibility goes in fighting pirates, and I resent Ubisoft dragging me into it any further.

Ubisoft has a responsibility to ME, the paying customer, to not interfere with my use of their product. If they have a problem with pirates, they need to take it up with them, and LEAVE ME OUT OF IT. They have no business making fighting pirates or hackers my problem, and yet this is exactly what they have done.

So, yes, I DO blame Ubisoft for me not being able to play what I paid for.

Thanks for reading my rant. I feel much better now.

[tater]

+1
:rock:

[mookiemookie]

I've seen a few posts that claim that pirates or hackers are to blame for me not being able to play SH5, not Ubisoft, and that I should be mad at them and not Ubisoft.

Well, I totally disagree with you. (Well, ok maybe half...)

For whatever the reason it is that the servers are down, Ubisoft has dropped the ball in not having a contingency plan to ensure the people who paid them money would be able to play the game. MMORPGs have been around long enough that Ubisoft should have known this might be a possibility and should have taken steps to have a backup plan in the event something like this happened.

Saying Ubisoft is not to blame for preventing me from playing SH5, which I paid for in good faith, is just not right. THEY made the decision to go with this setup, THEY chose not to have a backup plan in place.

I pay for my video games. I take pride in that. When my friends or coworkers talk about how they've got a pirated movie or game, or ask me to give them a copy, I give them hell for it! That's about as far as my responsibility goes in fighting pirates, and I resent Ubisoft dragging me into it any further.

Ubisoft has a responsibility to ME, the paying customer, to not interfere with my use of their product. If they have a problem with pirates, they need to take it up with them, and LEAVE ME OUT OF IT. They have no business making fighting pirates or hackers my problem, and yet this is exactly what they have done.

So, yes, I DO blame Ubisoft for me not being able to play what I paid for.

Thanks for reading my rant. I feel much better now.

Well let's play a little devil's advocate:

You can woulda/coulda/shoulda all day long, but the bottom line is: does Ubi's DRM scheme work? Yes. I played the game all last week with no problems at all. Until last weekend when the pirates decided to screw paying customers in their self-righteous statement of defiance. Would anything be an issue without the DDoS attacks? No, it wouldn't. So the only variable that's screwing up the works is the folks who've decided to make legitimate users of the game collateral damage in their attacks on Ubi.

Without the pirates and their DDoS attack, there'd be no problem. Therefore, the blame lies with them.

Feel free to flame away: after all, it was an exercise in rhetoric for me.

[tater]

Wrong.

DDOS attacks are commonplace, and to be expected, as are other server problems, or internet problems. Saying OSP works because it does under ideal conditions is meaningless. To go back to vehicle analogies, it's like saying a car is perfect, and if it happens to always wipe out in so much as a drizzle of rain, it's the rain's fault.

Yes, the attackers are responsible, but so is Ubi for not preparing for this OBVIOUS contingency.

PS—has anyone ever played a game where the official game company forums don't go down? Heck, how about ubi forums that frequently make the last few days of SS look responsive? What about game servers? Those ever have problems? Every one I've ever used has had periodic problems, some lengthy. That's just reality.

[razark]

Without the pirates and their DDoS attack, there'd be no problem. Therefore, the blame lies with them.

But do you believe that Ubi holds any responsibility for not having a contingency plan, when they should have foreseen this type of attack?

[ETR3(SS)]

Well let's play a little devil's advocate:

You can woulda/coulda/shoulda all day long, but the bottom line is: does Ubi's DRM scheme work? Yes. I played the game all last week with no problems at all. Until last weekend when the pirates decided to screw paying customers in their self-righteous statement of defiance. Would anything be an issue without the DDoS attacks? No, it wouldn't. So the only variable that's screwing up the works is the folks who've decided to make legitimate users of the game collateral damage in their attacks on Ubi.

Without the pirates and their DDoS attack, there'd be no problem. Therefore, the blame lies with them.

Feel free to flame away: after all, it was an exercise in rhetoric for me.Let us play devils advocate indeed! What evidence is there that pirates are responsible for this attack?

[FIREWALL]

Why clutter this website with the Samo-Samo. :roll:


Post something original. :yep:

[wetwarev7]

Well let's play a little devil's advocate:

You can woulda/coulda/shoulda all day long, but the bottom line is: does Ubi's DRM scheme work? Yes. I played the game all last week with no problems at all. Until last weekend when the pirates decided to screw paying customers in their self-righteous statement of defiance. Would anything be an issue without the DDoS attacks? No, it wouldn't. So the only variable that's screwing up the works is the folks who've decided to make legitimate users of the game collateral damage in their attacks on Ubi.

Without the pirates and their DDoS attack, there'd be no problem. Therefore, the blame lies with them.

Feel free to flame away: after all, it was an exercise in rhetoric for me.

No flame, you are just one of the ones I disagree with.

And without pirates, there would be no DRM. Without customers, there would be no Ubisoft. Round and round we go!

Tanks do a great job of keeping protests peaceful. Walls do a great job keeping people in or out. Censorship does a great job of silencing dissidents.

Not all great ideas are acceptable.

[wetwarev7]

Why clutter this website with the Samo-Samo. :roll:


Post something original. :yep:

Other people get to clutter with their crap, why can't I?

[mookiemookie]

Wrong.

DDOS attacks are commonplace, and to be expected, as are other server problems, or internet problems. Saying OSP works because it does under ideal conditions is meaningless. To go back to vehicle analogies, it's like saying a car is perfect, and if it happens to always wipe out in so much as a drizzle of rain, it's the rain's fault.

Yes, the attackers are responsible, but so is Ubi for not preparing for this OBVIOUS contingency.

PS—has anyone ever played a game where the official game company forums don't go down? Heck, how about ubi forums that frequently make the last few days of SS look responsive? What about game servers? Those ever have problems? Every one I've ever used has had periodic problems, some lengthy. That's just reality.

You've got a great point - Ubi's really screwed if their own forums are going down in this kind of attack. Not sure if they knew what kind of can of worms they were opening here. My personal opinion and my guess is no. Hubris and arrogance towards their own DRM system prevented them from being aware of it. Kind of a Titanic-esque "it can't sink!" kind of thing that kept them from adding enough lifeboats.

But do you believe that Ubi holds any responsibility for not having a contingency plan, when they should have foreseen this type of attack?

Well, i'm not very computer network savvy, so I can't begin to speak on this subject. As I said, it was kind of an exercise in rhetoric, so I was talking out of my ass. But on the surface, I personally agree with you. You don't trot out some new latest and greatest DRM system without planning for the consequences.

Let us play devils advocate indeed! What evidence is there that pirates are responsible for this attack?

Ubi says so, and given the outrage and negative consumer sentiment seen on the internet since their announcement of the system - I'm very inclined to believe them. What a feather that'd be in the cap of a scene group for them to say they took down Ubi's DRM system.

No flame, you are just one of the ones I disagree with. Ah ah - I was playing devil's advocate. So you disagreed with the position I stated - not necessarily me myself. :03:

And without pirates, there would be no DRM. Without customers, there would be no Ubisoft. Round and round we go! A real chicken and egg situation eh? No way to win that.

[jdkbph]

@ wetwarev7.

+1

Some just get it, and some don't... or won't.

I know it's over the top but I can't help thinking that all the arguments from the defenders of UBI's latest brand of DRM are basically employing the same mentality (albeit, in a comparatively trivial context) that resulted in the internment of hundreds of thousands of Japanese-Americans in the US during the WW2.

There were indeed spies and saboteurs out there... but locking up everyone (who fit a certain profile) as a means to defeat them was obviously the wrong answer.

JD

[wetwarev7]

Originally Posted by wetwarev7
No flame, you are just one of the ones I disagree with.


Ah ah - I was playing devil's advocate. So you disagreed with the position I stated - not necessarily me myself. :03:



Well played, Sir, well played. :salute:

[karamazovnew]

Less words, more facts:

DRM:
1. did it affect people who don't have net? YES
2. did it fail to prevent pirating? YES
3. did it affect quality of gameplay by increasing load times? YES
3. did it tickle hackers to flood the server? YES
4. are legitimate customers affected? YES

Conclusion? Poor decision, Ubi shot themselves in the foot with this one.

The game itself:
1. is it bugged? hell YES
2. is the new interface poorly designed (i'm not talking about the modern look)? YES
3. poorly documented (I mean manual and tutorials)? YES
4. is eye-candy the only BIG improvement? YES, and it's well done and it runs smooth.
5. is it moddable? YES

Conclusion? Rushed game, too little testing, too much reliance on modders. Hypocrisy towards newcomers to the series. The game as it is at the moment doesn't open up to newbies, and it actually closes itself to long time fans and avid simmers. Next time, how about they actually hire a few naval experts? How about they go and step on the deck of a ship first? How about they actually TEST and PLAY the game before releasing?

[jwilliams]

Ubi should have seen a DDoS attack coming.

Users of this forum did..
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1277548&postcount=1528

And they shoulc have been prepared...
But you also have to blame the pirates
If it wasnt for pirates, we wouldn't be in this position.:nope:
But Ubi shouldnt fight the pirates at the expence of their paying customers.

So we're now at a stale-mate. Sooner or later Ubi will have to give in, or risk losing their customers.
The pirates have nothing to lose. they will continue to DDoS until they win. unless ubi can put measures in so that a DDos dosn't effect their customers.

[mookiemookie]

Well played, Sir, well played. :salute:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_RhmBRH9oYbM/SqE9hiN0Z5I/AAAAAAAAAWs/oLdhBTUjQk8/s320/take-a-bow-thumb3083579.jpg
I find it fun to have the discussion without the emotion and hyperbole.

[NeonSamurai]

Ubi says so, and given the outrage and negative consumer sentiment seen on the internet since their announcement of the system - I'm very inclined to believe them. What a feather that'd be in the cap of a scene group for them to say they took down Ubi's DRM system.

I very much doubt that it is a scene attack (they are unheard of for one thing). It's not their game and they gain nothing from it. They only care about being the first to take apart and bypass the latest DRM (that's the game that counts as far as they are concerned), not DDoS attacks. I can guess though what group on the net is likely responsible, and it would be exactly the kind of thing they love to do, cause hurt and anger among paying customers. Perfect thing for lulz, and they are well known for using DDoS.

Also the main target for this would be to deny Assassin's Creed 2 players the ability to play.

[CCIP]

I've not had time for SHV in the last couple of days so this hasn't affected me much yet, but all I have to say is - I hope this does cause Ubi to reconsider its DRM stance. I don't think this is some sort of righteous protest at all, and it is indeed completely stupid. However if Ubi doesn't see which way the wind is blowing here, they could only be described as vapidly dumb. Something needs to change.

[ETR3(SS)]

Ubi says so, and given the outrage and negative consumer sentiment seen on the internet since their announcement of the system - I'm very inclined to believe them. What a feather that'd be in the cap of a scene group for them to say they took down Ubi's DRM system.With no one coming forward to claim responsibility, I believe a grain of salt is in order with this news source.:know:

Next time, how about they actually hire a few naval experts? How about they go and step on the deck of a ship first? Couldn't agree more. Taking a tour of a U Boat gives you a good idea of how it looks. But the sea is something that must be experienced in order to relay it's effects.

[Onkel Neal]

Other people get to clutter with their crap, why can't I?
You can and you are welcome to. But there are already threads for this topic. And as you know.... minute 1:28... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9q2jNjOPdk)ahem :O:

[mookiemookie]

I very much doubt that it is a scene attack (they are unheard of for one thing). It's not their game and they gain nothing from it. They only care about being the first to take apart and bypass the latest DRM (that's the game that counts as far as they are concerned), not DDoS attacks. I can guess though what group on the net is likely responsible, and it would be exactly the kind of thing they love to do, cause hurt and anger among paying customers. Perfect thing for lulz, and they are well known for using DDoS.

Also the main target for this would be to deny Assassin's Creed 2 players the ability to play.

Ah yes, you are correct. The Anonymous hackers would love to do this sort of thing. :03:

[Ducimus]

Why clutter this website with the Samo-Samo. :roll:


Post something original. :yep:


Ok here you go:.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGyPuey-1Jw

Still On ubi though. The failure of those servers, regardless of what data is being sent to it, IS on their shoulders.

[karamazovnew]

Couldn't agree more. Taking a tour of a U Boat gives you a good idea of how it looks. But the sea is something that must be experienced in order to relay it's effects.

Indeed it does, but I was thinking more on the lines of "procedures" and not "sea-sickness" :haha:

I've gone through all the possible techniques of shooting a torpedo. In the end I chose one for myself. Simple stuff such as a Maneuvering Board or Attack Disk can go a looong way. Using such tools in the real life can give you an idea of what to put in the sim. I've even went to scratch and reworked the entire attack procedures on paper to see the underlying geometry theory. I created tables for myself, I plotted my attacks on real paper with proper tools. Only to find that the game doesn't actually help me with simple tasks :haha:. Seems weird after reading all those "This is for simulator purposes only, not to be used in real flight operations" warnings on the approach plates of FSX :har: