I'm sad I bought SHIV

[ERPP8]

I got it for Christmas and I had fun.
But after a few weeks I noticed the following things:

1. The campaigns suck
1.1 You get the same mission over and over
1.2 All merchants are armed
1.3 I know RSRDC fixes that but other things stopped it from making a difference

2. I got really bad mod soup
2.1 The Ohio SSBN changed it so the only available torps are the MK-48(great but inaccurate) and the anti ship missile(which sucked)

3. The U-Boat mission expansion sucked
3.1 You always end up patroling an area for ever
3.2 Ops Monsoon fixed that but the planes could see you when your 500 ft down

4. There's no interior except the conning tower, command room and bridge


All this made it painful to play:nope:

[capthelm]

sounds to me your wasting your money buying sub simulation games.

[Gilbou]

I got both SH3 and SH4.

I play german side on both. SH4 has some added things like, doing circles in map is more precise, better graphics, better ocean floor, and so on.

On SH3 I use SH3 + GWX

On SH4 I am trying :

RSRDC + Op Monsun + Omegu

What mods have you combined and tried with SH4 ?

If you like to play Uboats, SH3 with GWX would perhaps be a better experience for you.

[ETR3(SS)]

1. The campaigns suck
1.1 You get the same mission over and over
1.2 All merchants are armed
1.3 I know RSRDC fixes that but other things stopped it from making a differenceStock out of the box, yep the game isn't that great.That's what all the mods are for. And to think, the game was worse when it first came out!


2. I got really bad mod soup Can't blame that one on the game.

2.1 The Ohio SSBN changed it so the only available torps are the MK-48(great but inaccurate) and the anti ship missile(which sucked)If I recall correctly it only did that for the Ohio. Sure the Mk48 and TASM replaced a couple of torpedoes, but it still left you at least three to choose from for other boats.


3. The U-Boat mission expansion sucked
3.1 You always end up patroling an area for ever
3.2 Ops Monsoon fixed that but the planes could see you when your 500 ft down Can't speak much to that. If I wanted to play U boats, I played SH3, not SH4+U boat missions.


4. There's no interior except the conning tower, command room and bridge I have the feeling that this opinion is brought forward by SH5. That's a part of progressing the series.

[d@rk51d3]

If you have 1.5 Give OM, and OMEGU, a shot. :yeah:

I also use a couple of sound mods too.........Poul's and EAX. While it does mix some US and German, it's still fun to use.



..........I'm slowly weaning off of SH3 with these.

[ERPP8]

Stock out of the box, yep the game isn't that great.That's what all the mods are for. And to think, the game was worse when it first came out!

Can't blame that one on the game.

If I recall correctly it only did that for the Ohio. Sure the Mk48 and TASM replaced a couple of torpedoes, but it still left you at least three to choose from for other boats.

Can't speak much to that. If I wanted to play U boats, I played SH3, not SH4+U boat missions.

I have the feeling that this opinion is brought forward by SH5. That's a part of progressing the series.
It's not meant to be "Why SHIV sucks" it's why I don't like SHIV

[AVGWarhawk]

Uninstall it and reintall fresh. Just go for the German things Lurker has created. It will prevent mod soup. I have uninstalled and reinstalled numerous times when my game acts funny.

[SloppyMk27]

You may not agree with me, but my opinion is, SHIV is probably the best sub simulator out there. It's the happy medium between SHIII and SHV. SHIII had grainy graphics, much more functionality and they seemed to pay closer attention to historical details. In SHIV the graphics got better, I can't say much for the campaigns (go patrol this area, sink ships and come home. and repeat). Some functionality was gained while some functionality was lost. I'll agree the U-Boat Missions Expansion for SHIV was a band-aid for the game to add U-Boats to it. Then we have SHV. You got the interior you asked for, and they took away everything else. My hope for SHV solely rests with the modders here in Subsim. Some modders are working on some fantastic mods for this train wreck. There are a lot of mods out for SH4, and I believe if you go through some of the modding tutorials you may be able to make SH4 how you want it to be. SH4 from my experiences seems to be the most flexible for modding. The file structure is better laid out than SHIII and you can use S3d instead of being forced to use SHV's "Goblin Editor" which I believe is also a train wreck for modding SHV.
Anyway I hope this sheds some positive light on SHIV. Knowing and learning how to fix and change the game makes things better, as does alcohol:D

[Armistead]

You get out of it what you're willing to learn to put in it...and yes it takes a combo of right mods for each.

I just ran into one large convoy of 40 ships and as I escaped it here comes another...almost did me in...Went for a quick refit at Guam and sat in the Sibuyan Sea for battle of Leyte and watched 100 US planes attack Kurita's Center Force...I'm tracking ahead waiting until damage is done and I'll go in for some easier kills. Sure hope they get lots of bombs in the Yamato.

Here's a couple recent battles.
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6421019045/m/7951006058
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6421019045/m/5031017848

[Scurvy]

I love SHIV and I don't even have any mods installed.

Actually, a while back, before my hard drive crashed, I attempted a few mods and they didn't work very well for me and I gave up on them.

Not that I'm a computer noob, but I just don't have the time to tinker with things like I used to (I'm a dispatcher for 9-1-1 and have a wife and child and three ferrets, aging parents, a father that's a WWII veteran with early stages of Alzheimer's and an AR-15 and Glock 23 and Bersa .380 and other guns to shoot at the range and bushcraft skills to perfect in the wilderness and simply don't have the time to devote to tweaking one of the only simulators on my PC that I can find time to enjoy).

One of these days, probably next winter, when my outdoor hobbies are finished for the season, I'll seriously check out the mods.

Until then, I'm completely satisfied with vanilla SHIV. It's the only sim that I can find happiness, employing survival skills to successfully destroy enemy ships and then leisurely spending hours to park my boat in dock at Pearl Harbor, while enjoying the sight-seeing aspect of it all. There's something magical about that that no other game or simulator has ever provided me.

Edit: And, with this post, now I'msk Popeye! More surprises, at every turn!

:D

[Gibus]

Until then, I'm completely satisfied with vanilla SHIV.

Can you explain the word "vanilla". In French, this correspond to a spice and I d'not understand the relationship with SHIV.
Thanks.

[BillBam]

Can you explain the word "vanilla". In French, this correspond to a spice and I d'not understand the relationship with SHIV.
Thanks.

Vanilla is without added flavors, SH4 vanilla is without MODS.

[Gibus]

OK.:DL
So I play with pepper !

[Harmsway!]

That's right if you are not happy with the plate put in front of you spice it up. You may find its not that bad after all.

[orangehat44]

Read the mod threads and read me's every one ive come across is pretty straight forward on what its compatable with and what its not. Mod soup is noones fault but laziness. SH 3 and 4 are poor with out at least game fixes mods. and the super mods and enviornment mods turn them into jems. I have 2 versions of SH4 installed so I can play TMO on one comp and OM on the other.


And Im not trying to be an ass. but whats the point of putting up a thread saying the game sucks in your opinion in a forum for that game. Either ask a specific question that might alieviate your problems, or dont bother posting. With all the hard work that the modders have pored into the game doesnt justify posts saying it "sucks". Most of the people, modders and simmers alike are very eager to help people get the most out of these games. And Id have already ignored the games as crap had I not found this forum.


Most of your "points" of why the game sucks are "this sucks that sucks" talk about using the word in the definition. Yes we know the stock campaigns are alittle poor, hence the super mods. The game is a world war 2 sub simulation. What other orders did you expect to recieve as a uboat captain other than go sink ships with the ocasional recon. "all the merchants are armed" its a war..... and after a certain date yea most of them will be armed. would you captain a merchant ship in know areas of uboat operation and do so unarmed.

If you have any interest in the game rework your reasons for it sucking to questions on how to improve and you'll prob get alot of us to offer you help. But sounds your not interested in this kinda game.


One final note that to me just makes it all sound like a troll is you say "Your sorry you bought SHIV" But in the first line you state it was given to you for christmas.

So you shouldnt have anything to be sorry about.

[Platapus]

One final note that to me just makes it all sound like a troll is you say "Your sorry you bought SHIV" But in the first line you state it was given to you for christmas.

So you shouldnt have anything to be sorry about.


The defense rests, your Honour. :yeah:

[tomoose]

......what exactly did you think a subsim would entail regarding its missions? The odd recon/drop off yup, save the odd downed pilot yup, but these were the exceptions rather than the rule.

Sink ships, specifically merchant ships was their primary mission, aka: interdict enemy shipping whereever it is found.

Yes, the stock version of the game "sucked" and can be frustrating. Conversely adding a mish-mash of mods can also be frustrating if not done correctly.

[AVGWarhawk]

Gents, this is an old thread. Resurrecting the dead here. :hmmm:

[orangehat44]

well only a month and a half old thread, but yea i guess. Some times I forget to read the forum dates, I havent come across too many necroed threads here on subsim.

[tomoose]

Me too, didn't look at the date.
(cue Stooges voice) "why I oughta.....":03:

[CaptBackasswards]

Well, sorry you feel that way. With the right mods, it's the best subsim going right now.

[kiwi_2005]

dont be sad just wait it out, that's what im doing.. meanwhile its back to silent hunter 4 trying some mods out one i just added and am about to take the 'Soviet nuclear Typhoon class' sub out on patrol. :rock: Beat that ubisoft! :DL

Edit Wrong thread thought it meant SH5:damn:

[WarlordATF]

Could have been worse, you could have bought SHV. :yeah:

[Platapus]

Could have been worse, you could have bought SHV. :yeah:

He thinks SH5 is the greatest game ever.

[Admiral8Q]

It could have been much worse...:o
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/5562/artic01.png

[WarlordATF]

He thinks SH5 is the greatest game ever.

ouch, its hopeless then. :o

I'll admit SH4 has its problems, but most of them can be solved by either using mods or modding the game yourself. dispite any flaws Sh4 may have i'd gladly take that over being forced to be tied to Ubisofts servers just to play a game.

[HMCS]

With OM it beats the pants off of SH3. The fatigue model and the constantly having to monkey about with your crew drove me batty.

I tried GWX but the incessant radio messages also made me nuts.

I've switched from the USN to the Kriegsmarine and it's like having a new game all over.

[Admiral8Q]

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/1033/vhat1a.png

[tater]

I got it for Christmas and I had fun.
But after a few weeks I noticed the following things:

1. The campaigns suck
1.1 You get the same mission over and over
1.2 All merchants are armed
1.3 I know RSRDC fixes that but other things stopped it from making a difference


Most jap merchants WERE armed. Around 2/3 were commandeered before the start of the war by either the IJN or IJA. Many if not most of the remaining ships were later armed.

Believe it or not, none of the available SH4 merchies, even modded has nearly the armament of many ships uses even in December, 1941. This actually surprised me, but many had 4x, even 6x what we see on SH4 merchies.

No kidding.

2. I got really bad mod soup

That's your own fault, not SH4's.

2.1 The Ohio SSBN changed it so the only available torps are the MK-48(great but inaccurate) and the anti ship missile(which sucked)

LOL. Just LOL.


3. The U-Boat mission expansion sucked
3.1 You always end up patroling an area for ever
3.2 Ops Monsoon fixed that but the planes could see you when your 500 ft down

You mention the fix, but jeez, you can change the aircraft sensor thing with less effort than typing the OP.

4. There's no interior except the conning tower, command room and bridge

And more interior is useful how, exactly? Lesse, as skipper you need a rack, someplace to eat—wardroom, and an eating simulator? Least that is something the captain would DO inside. How about taking a dump? Skipper does that. Do anything in the engine room? Not so much as eating and using the head. Interiors are a waste of time.

All this made it painful to play:nope:

Glad yer out the cash with that attitude. You can goose-step around a u-boat interior with SH5 though (that improves crew fanaticism I understand, which makes the torpedoes magically faster and more powerful!)

[Bothersome]

Believe it or not, none of the available SH4 merchies, even modded has nearly the armament of many ships uses even in December, 1941. This actually surprised me, but many had 4x, even 6x what we see on SH4 merchies.

No kidding.


I'm not real sure what you mean by "armament" in your statement above. Do you mean offensive power or defensive power?

It was my understanding that merchant ships were built to move cargo and not built for surviving battles at sea. If it was ship worthy enough to survive high waves and weather that was expected, it was built to those specifications. So a merchant ship was generally very susceptible to sinking from taking torpedo damages. Mostly because they didn't have crew experienced in damage control from being under attack and they only had enough crew to run the ship, let alone massive damage control. They may know how to put out fires but sealing holes and quick welding of bulkheads and hatches wasn't always in their training duties. Unlike that of a warship in the respected navies.

Basically, the ship may be rusty and in need of some repair and spit and polish. But, if it could haul cargo, then it sails, even if it is only one torpedo away from sinking.

Maybe I heard wrong. Anyone got any actual facts on this?

[tater]

I just told you the facts.

The Imperial Japanese Army commandeered about 1/3 of jap merchant shipping. Guns were placed on most all. The Imperial Japanese Navy commandeered arund 1/3 the the jap merchant marine. Guns were placed as well. The remaining ~1/3 would have had guns placed sort of hit or miss.

Typical IJA transport:
http://ww6.enjoy.ne.jp/~iwashige/miikemarumod.jpg
Look at all the AA. Also a couple short, 3" deck guns.

Another IJA transport, 8 guns:
http://ww6.enjoy.ne.jp/~iwashige/asakasanmarumod.jpg

IJA Nagara Maru—in game with what, 2 guns? Real ship had EIGHT guns (her sisters similarly armed way in excess of SH4 as well). This is how she looked during the initial invasion period in 1942:
http://ww6.enjoy.ne.jp/~iwashige/nagaramarumod2.jpg

IJA ship in 1942—16 guns.
http://ww6.enjoy.ne.jp/~iwashige/sasakomarumod.jpg


Armament means guns, depth charges, etc. Not armor, or damage control. The vast majority of jap ships sank with 1 torpedo hit, though some survived many hits. While most armament in terms of gun counts was AAA, the standard small AA was 13mm (0.50 cal more or less) at the start, and quickly updated to 25mm guns. The other guns were Dual Purpose (DP) guns that could be used vs surfaced subs, OR elevated for AA use. Jap merchant ships also frequently had hydrophones, and depth charges, though the latter were not dropped in any aimed way, just thrown over the side to scare subs, apparently.

IJA ships were typically filled with troops, so small arms would be in vast supply. A surface sub would face withering small arms fire if it was dumb enough to try for a daytime surface engagement, or even use the deck gun at night. Typical night-surface engagements were high speed torpedo boat tactics. Race through while firing as many tubes as possible while NOT shooting deck guns that would give your position away. Jap merchants would blaze away into the darkness.

Many more:
http://ww6.enjoy.ne.jp/~iwashige/modellist.htm

[Randomizer]

... It was my understanding that merchant ships were built to move cargo and not built for surviving battles at sea. If it was ship worthy enough to survive high waves and weather that was expected, it was built to those specifications. So a merchant ship was generally very susceptible to sinking from taking torpedo damages. Basically, the ship may be rusty and in need of some repair and spit and polish. But, if it could haul cargo, then it sails, even if it is only one torpedo away from sinking...
Merchant ships could also prove remarkably tough and some cargos helped keep a damaged ship afloat even as other doomed a torpedo victim to rapid sinking. The vast majority certainly had watertight compartments and in some cases double hulls, double bottom's and hulls reinforced for operations in ice were incorporated into the original design.

The comments about the crews may be generally accurate but also lack context, Navy crews were disciplined and trained to save the ship but merchant seaman were inculcated into saving themselves. When the best chance of the latter coincided with doing the former they were capable of outstanding feats of damage control that are known and probably many that are unknown because they might not have been ultimately successful.

As for defensive guns, many ships, particularly passenger liners built pre-war outside the USA were government subsidized and had areas of the decks strengthened to take guns built into the design for use in the event of war. This was common in the British merchant marine and since much of Japanese maritime practice mirrored that of the UK it is reasonable to infer that they did something similar. Tater's links certainly point that way.

[Admiral8Q]

Cool info Tater! Thanks for that post! :salute: