[TEC] Basic manual TDC tutorial

[Bilge_Rat]

Bilge Rat’s basic manual TDC tutorial



This is a simple tutorial showing how to use manual TDC with map updates “on” using only the in game info and tools. Having map updates on provides you with the position, course and speed of the target ship and simplifies the process of learning manual TDC.

1. Here I have locked on to a target and my XO gives me an estimated solution (ship ID, bearing, range, speed, AOB). We now have to refine the numbers to come up with the “right” solution. The bearing is usually correct and does not have to be changed.

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/7656/manualtdc0002.jpg


2. Let’s now switch to the TAI map view and start getting some info on our target. When you click on the target, you see that it is a merchant moving at a speed of 7 knots.

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/9559/manualtdc0003.jpg


3. when you zoom in closer on the map, we can see it is moving due east and by using the ruler to measure the distance, you can see that it will come within 600 meters of our sub, which simplifies our task.

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/2781/manualtdc0004.jpg


4. It is still too far away to finalize all the numbers, but there are some preliminary things you should do early in the process. I have decided to fire 2 torpedoes so I set the speed of both tubes (I and II) to “fast” and the pistol to “impact”.

5. We are now ready to start perfecting the solution. First, since we know the correct speed, we will set it in the TDC. Click on speed in the solution which will bring you to the following menu. Click on the number shown and then use the right or left arrows to increase or decrease speed in 2 knot increments or, simply type in the correct speed. Click on “Back” directly below which brings you back to the solution. The other numbers in the solution can be modified in a similar manner.

http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/3088/manualtdc0005.jpg


6. Next we will identify the ship.


http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/7545/manualtdc0006.jpg



7. when the target is at the point where you want to launch the torpedoes, PAUSE the game and we will plug in the missing numbers.

8. to get the range, press TAB to expand the TAI map. You can then use the ruler to measure the distance from the center of your sub to the center of the target. This gives us a result of 950 meters. You can doublecheck this against the map which shows a distance of 961 meters. This small discrepancy will not have an impact considering the close range.

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/9464/manualtdc0007.jpg



9. to get the AOB, use the protactor to measure from your sub to the target and out following the course of the target. This gives us a AOB of 43 degrees.

http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/3712/manualtdc0008.jpg


10. while keeping the game paused, go back to your scope and plug in the “range” and “AOB” in the solution. You may have to unpause briefly and repause to get the AOB to update. Check to make sure the AOB is on the correct side, starboard if the target is going left to right across your screen and port if it is moving right to left.

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8348/manualtdc0009.jpg




11. As you can see, our solution now shows all the correct info: ship ID, bearing, range, speed, AOB. Now that the correct solution has been entered, you can aim and fire at specific parts of the ship.

12. unpause and fire. Here I aimed the first torpedo just before the island and the second right after. Remember that when the correct solution is entered, you are aiming where the torpedoes will be when they intersect the course of the ship and not where the ship is now. To be safe or if using only one torpedo, aim at the center of the ship.

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/3504/manualtdc0010.jpg


13. result: two torpedo hits and one more allied freighter heading to Davey Jone’s locker.

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/6456/manualtdc0011.jpg


In a second, more advanced tutorial, we will see how to determine the position, course and speed of a target with map updates “off”.

Good hunting!

link to PDF file

http://www.filefront.com/15797153/TDC_tutorial.rar/

[Furia]

Nicely explained.
I have not thought about using the proctator to calculate the AOB. Nice stuff!.
Thanks :up:

[nikulin]

Waiting for second tutorial.
How to get range when stadimeter lies:)

[Maltro]

Intersting thread for beginners to SH5. Thanks for them. I am interesting by manual targeting with contacts off.
As nikullin tell us, stadimeter give me strange results... Maybe we should look at the distance beetween floating line and top of the chimney and not at the top of the mast as we were habituated to do.
This measure looks right when I compared it to the distance the ruler gives me. I remember in SH4, there was a mod which tell us to do like this (and to don't take care about the top of the mast. In this way, results were ok as if the target is not at 90 degrees as the sub).

What are you thinking about?

[danizzz]

Maybe im a noob but when i fire the torpedo i dont get that torpedo camera on the left side of the screen (i think the event camera....).
What do i have to activate for that camera?
Thanks!:rock:

[ERPP8]

No offense but it's more like "Cheater's guide to manual TDC"

[JamesT73J]

Intersting thread for beginners to SH5. Thanks for them. I am interesting by manual targeting with contacts off.
As nikullin tell us, stadimeter give me strange results... Maybe we should look at the distance beetween floating line and top of the chimney and not at the top of the mast as we were habituated to do.
This measure looks right when I compared it to the distance the ruler gives me. I remember in SH4, there was a mod which tell us to do like this (and to don't take care about the top of the mast. In this way, results were ok as if the target is not at 90 degrees as the sub).

What are you thinking about?

I think 'contacts off' in the SH games is pretty hard work, and I come from Dangerous Waters / Sub Command :D Too many deficiencies in the usability of plotting tools, for a start. Simply being able to mark targets from the scope/UZO ("bearing...THAT..range...THAT" etc, without going to the map view and drawing them yourself) would make such a massive difference. Then there is the issue of continued observation; once you id and range a target the plot should really update automatically (you'd have a man / team doing this in reality) In SC/DW when you have a contact, you give it speed/heading attributes and it plots itself until you update it. I'm quite happy leaving updates on in the case of the SH games, it is a lot for one dude to do.

The stadimeter seems procedurally easier than SH3's, but gives pretty inconsistent results.

[Maltro]

Danniz, if you put the event camera on, realism % will dicrease and you won't have as much reward point at the end of a patrol as if you would turn it off.

Stadimeter seems to bug. I am going to verify my theorie about top of chimney and will tell you. In real life, what are we supposed to do ? Choose the top of the mast or the top of chimney? I have a doubt now...

[Bilge_Rat]

Thanks for all the comments. It is important to pool and disseminate this info since the game manual is so sparse on these essential details.

There have been many threads on whether map contacts "on" or "off" is more realistic, since one gives you too much info and the other too little. Since it is a single player game, I view this as being simply a matter of personal taste.

The most that can be said is that map contacts "off" is more work, more difficult, but ultimately more satisfying when you get a kill.

The only obstacle in using map contacts "off" in the present state of the game is the lack of info on how to properly use the stadimeter. Measuring from the waterline to the top of the mast as in stock SH4 gives you the wrong range in SH5. In some cases, the top of the funnel gives you the correct range, sometimes its the bridge deck. Hopefully, this issue will be resolved soon.

Ultimately, as we become more familiar with the game, we can do as the real Kaleuns did and shoot by "eye". :up:

[Maltro]

The only obstacle in using map contacts "off" in the present state of the game is the lack of info on how to properly use the stadimeter. Measuring from the waterline to the top of the mast as in stock SH4 gives you the wrong range in SH5. In some cases, the top of the funnel gives you the correct range, sometimes its the bridge deck. Hopefully, this issue will be resolved soon.
:up:

Agree whit you. It s a shame. You looks optimist about next fix. How do you know it will be fix?

[Bilge_Rat]

I'm not, but the fact that none of the devs have popped in to explain how it works leads me to think there may be a bug which will hopefully be fixed.

A functional stadimeter is pretty much essential in a sub sim.

[Maltro]

Yes... I Hope too.
I don't understand how they can sold out a sub game without this function works. It's like a car sim without accelerator pedal...
I believe there was a similar bug in sh4 during the first month the game was out. Stadimeter doesn't work at all or something like this...

[Indietro]

Hello, i was wondering is there any way to measure ship speed while playing on 100% realism ?

[Maltro]

If you Can find the exact position of your target 2 times, you can know speed of this ship by a simple method but the problem is... Stadimeter isn't precise enough at this time to know the distance beetween you and your target. Need a fix.

So without this patch, it is very hard to have a valid firing solution at this time. So I have chosen to turn on the setting : update map contact to find the distance using the ruler.

[Indietro]

If you Can find the exact position of your target 2 times, you can know speed of this ship by a simple method but the problem is... Stadimeter isn't precise enough at this time to know the distance beetween you and your target. Need a fix.

So without this patch, it is very hard to have a valid firing solution at this time. So I have chosen to turn on the setting : update map contact to find the distance using the ruler.

Yeah I know stadimeter is for range, it might be innacure I don't know, but at least it is there, now I want to know how on earth to get the speed with no contact updates or ship icons on the map ?

[Bilge_Rat]

Yeah I know stadimeter is for range, it might be innacure I don't know, but at least it is there, now I want to know how on earth to get the speed with no contact updates or ship icons on the map ?

there are many different methods, I would suggest using as many as you can to cross-check:

1. your soundman will call out a speed when he reports on a contact, i.e. slow speed, medium speed. There are some threads in the SH3/4 forum which explain what this works out to in game terms, I believe "slow" works out to 6-9 knots. This gives you a range of possible speeds;

2. take two separate range and bearing on your target, at least 5 seconds apart (the longer the better), click on the"estimated speed from range observations "line (see screenshot above in step #5) and the XO will give you a speed estimation. Be careful with this though, it is often way off if your range estimation was incorrect;

3. measure from the map as follows:

a) take a first bearing and range reading of the target and plot it on the map (point #a);

b) wait 3 min 15 seconds (use the stopwatch);

c) take a second bearing and range reading of the target and plot it on the map (point #b);

d) measure the distance from point #a to point #b on the map, remove the last two digits from the distance measured in meters, this gives you the speed in knots (i.e., a ship moving at 10 knots will travel 1,003 meters in 3 min 15 seconds).

If the speed in 1,2 and 3 matches, that is the correct speed.

[Flyguybc]

I am pretty sure stadmeter measures from the top of the stack. Not the mast. If you measure it that way your numbers are much closer to that of the ruler. The challenge for me is getting the correct "waterline" as you can move the scope up and down

[Frederf]

The stadimeter's expected height varies from ship to ship with no understandable pattern. Sometimes it's the mast, sometimes it's the funnel, sometimes it's something else.

The scope being able to move shouldn't matter. The horizontal center line (aim) on the scope has no connection to using the stadimeter which operates strictly on the angular difference between two images.

[jaxa]

Could you upload this tutorial somewhere in pdf file?

[Turm]

Waiting for second tutorial.
How to get range when stadimeter lies:)

Same here :DL

From the tutorial mission alone, I found that one ship required me to use the top of the funnels, and another to use the top of the masts. And one ship was somewhat inaccurate no matter what reference point I used... (like a 200m error when it was only 1km away).

As has been said, the position of the horizontal marking on the scope doesn't matter as it did in SH3. You could be in the heaviest of seas and still use the stadimeter with good accuracy - if only it worked as it should. I've been waiting for this feature since SH3! (Didn't get SH4) Still waiting :shifty:

Speaking of manual calculations, I need to find myself a nomograph to print out. Easier than adding one to the SH5 map. Anybody have any links to hand? I'll go pay Google a visit in the mean time.

[Bilge_Rat]

Could you upload this tutorial somewhere in pdf file?

done, edited the first post to add a link to the pdf file.

[jdbecka]

I have followed this to the T and my torps still miss my target by a long shot, not even remotely close

fixed
Seems I was inputing the angle wrong, and was putting it as 45 degrees instead of -45 etc

[Seefer]

Regarding the talk of stadimeter problems, just how much error are we talking about? Are the errors grossly inaccurate compared to the accuracy achieveable with the real-world instruments? If so then yes, this is an example of a ludicrous bug that is probably the result of lazy design and shoddy quality control and should be fixed immediately consdiering the importance of range-finding in a submarine simulator.

However are we sure that the errors in the stadimeter are in fact representative of the error bars you'd see in the real world. After all, an optical range finder is not like a laser designator :)

I'm just curious to know the severity of this alleged stadimeter problem from others with more knowledge of SH5 than I have so I can add my voice to the calls for it being fixed pronto.

[kylania]

Regarding the talk of stadimeter problems, just how much error are we talking about? Are the errors grossly inaccurate compared to the accuracy achieveable with the real-world instruments?

I'm just curious to know the severity of this alleged stadimeter problem from others with more knowledge of SH5 than I have so I can add my voice to the calls for it being fixed pronto.

It's a bug. Mast Height is stuck at 20 for all ships in stock. This problem has been fixed (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1393822&postcount=2150) with TheDarkWraith's NewUI + TDC mod which now pulls the correct mast height from the config files when you ID a ship and fixes the standimeter.

[Rob1986]

Hi, I'm new to this forum and the game, and wanted to firstly say thanks for the tutorial, trying to get into manual targetting since the old days of easy SH3 firing are long gone! Prob a noob snag,but when i enter the angle on the bow according to your calculation it always resets to zero, or defaults to whatever my watch officer thinks. this means my eels always head for the ship now rather than where it will be.am i just being a fail?
thanks

[voss]

Hi, I'm new to this forum and the game, and wanted to firstly say thanks for the tutorial, trying to get into manual targetting since the old days of easy SH3 firing are long gone! Prob a noob snag,but when i enter the angle on the bow according to your calculation it always resets to zero, or defaults to whatever my watch officer thinks. this means my eels always head for the ship now rather than where it will be.am i just being a fail?
thanks
Not your fail. This is a known issue. I believe the AOB is reset every time you update the other information in the TDC. It needs to be the last bit of data you enter.

Happy hunting! :salute:

[TheDarkWraith]

Not your fail. This is a known issue. I believe the AOB is reset every time you update the other information in the TDC. It needs to be the last bit of data you enter.

Happy hunting! :salute:

If using my UIs mod you can prevent that from happening by clicking the red buttons attached to the TDC dials :03:

[Rob1986]

Ok this really will be a fail,where can I get this and how do I install it?thanks

[homsikpanda]

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/7545/manualtdc0006.jpg



how for you bring up this screen? D:

[Bilge_Rat]

Homskipanda, the last screen is the periscope screen. It comes up when you click on the observation or attack periscope.

[Bilge_Rat]

Not your fail. This is a known issue. I believe the AOB is reset every time you update the other information in the TDC. It needs to be the last bit of data you enter.

Happy hunting! :salute:

that is correct, in the stock game, you have to enter AOB last to get an accurate solution.

[Loganrocks7]

Thanks :salute:

[Gaugeforever]

So i infiltrated scapa and missed horridly on two shots which I think came down to my range readings.

On the stadimeter. Do you measure to top of masts(I'm using TDW ui)? If so, you must have to get damn close to make these shots, passed 4km you have no hope of seeing these masts on even a extremely still sea and clear day.

Again, on the stadimeter, does your horizontal line have to be at the bottom of the ship or can it be anywhere?

Also has someone made a practice scenario where they don't shoot back you can just practice aiming and shooting manually?

[Fifi]

On the stadimeter. Do you measure to top of masts(I'm using TDW ui)?

Again, on the stadimeter, does your horizontal line have to be at the bottom of the ship or can it be anywhere?


Yes top masts, and horizontal line on flotation line :)

[Trevally.]

So i infiltrated scapa and missed horridly on two shots which I think came down to my range readings.

On the stadimeter. Do you measure to top of masts(I'm using TDW ui)? If so, you must have to get damn close to make these shots, passed 4km you have no hope of seeing these masts on even a extremely still sea and clear day.

Again, on the stadimeter, does your horizontal line have to be at the bottom of the ship or can it be anywhere?

Also has someone made a practice scenario where they don't shoot back you can just practice aiming and shooting manually?

You could try one of my tutorials - it takes you through this in game:up:

[Gaugeforever]

You could try one of my tutorials - it takes you through this in game:up:

Done, and tried it. Questions.

http://imgur.com/0BUQ7uE

So you can see I am in the stadimeter and have it set to the range (within 10m) of what your tutorial says it is and yet no where near the top of the masts. I tried on several ships and the range of your tutorial was correct, however the stadimeter (even when remotely close to top of masts) was wrong.

Also your AOB in your tutorials is wrong I think. I found AOB to be -46 in that pic (guess) and your tutorial said -134. No clue where that number came from. Anyways my AOB hit dead on center, so might be an issue there. But your range is WAY more accurate than mine. Just as I suspected my range finding is the issue.

How can I get better at this... Where am I supposed to put this stadimeter... it's so confusing.

[Yotaturbo]

thanks to this thread, i've got my first manual kill :D

[Bilge_Rat]

wow, this is a blast from the past. I was going to do a second part on full manual, but never got around to it.

[Fifi]

however the stadimeter (even when remotely close to top of masts) was wrong.


I agree, stadimeter isn't very accurate and even adjusting it very carefully flotation line/top of masts usually give an error +- 100m further 90% of time.

I saw this using boats icons on map and solution line.
Mesuring distance to icon with ruler, and putting manually distance in stadi, the solution line just reach the boat icon...now using only stadimeter, solution line is off by at least 100 m :doh:

As the distance is corrupted further, i usually set the stadi a little more higher than the top mast.

But in RL, was the stadimeters that accurate too?

[Spectre-63]

Question for the more experienced Kaleuns:

In the past, I have always fired from a fixed wire - allowing my target to cross into the scope to the point where I want the torpedo to hit and then fire. Based upon my limited experience (and success) so far, I believe that unlocking the target may be shutting off the TDC and throwing off my shots. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

M

[RustySubmarine]

Link for PDF Tutorial says File not found