View Full Version : The Frozen Baltic
In a situation not seen since the mid 1980's, about 50 ships are frozen in the Baltic Sea due to icy conditions.
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/50-ships-stuck-in-ice-20100305-pmbi.html
frau kaleun
03-04-10, 09:14 PM
In before "global warming" snarkage! :O:
The poles will melt and the tropics will freeze. Equatorial glaciers will become so thick they slow down the earths rotation enough to add a couple of hours to the day. The mosquito count at my cabin will remain unchanged.
frau kaleun
03-04-10, 10:39 PM
Mass hysteria, dogs and cats living together...
Snestorm
03-04-10, 11:48 PM
No. No. They aren't realy iced in.
It's just everyone's imagination.
Just ask the Global WARMING "experts".
Same goes for all this "imaginary" snow.
Now. Let me watch the Global WARMING "experts" drive as though it's summer.
(But please, don't do it near me).
OneToughHerring
03-05-10, 12:39 AM
Three of those ships collided with each other when they were trying to break through the ice/get loose from the ice. They told the passengers to move to the right side of the boat and the collision was on the left side. Pretty amateurish stuff.
I guess there is no threat of sinking though. Boring. :)
Check west of the Gulf of Finland.
http://marinetraffic.com/ais/
bookworm_020
03-05-10, 04:26 AM
There not iced in, they just got carried away with snow cone production!
No. No. They aren't realy iced in.
It's just everyone's imagination.
Just ask the Global WARMING "experts".
Same goes for all this "imaginary" snow.
Now. Let me watch the Global WARMING "experts" drive as though it's summer.
(But please, don't do it near me).
*facepalm*
im ashamed to live in the same country as you
Highbury
03-05-10, 05:24 AM
I can't help but think someone put that Google ad at the top on purpose... :shifty:
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/2760/captureglp.jpg
Schroeder
03-05-10, 06:24 AM
No. No. They aren't realy iced in.
It's just everyone's imagination.
Just ask the Global WARMING "experts".
Same goes for all this "imaginary" snow.
Now. Let me watch the Global WARMING "experts" drive as though it's summer.
(But please, don't do it near me).
Are you serious?
Oh come on no one ever said that global warming will drive out winter entirely. We are talking about a global AVERAGE temperature raising of just a few degrees Celsius. The weather is going to become more extreme in both directions. Or in simple words: If your summer is three degrees hotter than normal then your winter can be two degrees colder than normal and you still have a raised AVERAGE temperature.
Are you serious?
Oh come on no one ever said that global warming will drive out winter entirely. We are talking about a global AVERAGE temperature raising of just a few degrees Celsius. The weather is going to become more extreme in both directions. Or in simple words: If your summer is three degrees hotter than normal then your winter can be two degrees colder than normal and you still have a raised AVERAGE temperature.
I know, people are always jumping to conclusions, just because it's a bit cold in their part of the world.
In the meantime, I still wait to see the official temperature statistics for my region.
We're used to very cold and very snowy winters and since the beginning of the year, it has been exceptionally hot, we're almost one month ahead for the summer and that's no kidding.
Bubblehead Nuke
03-05-10, 10:42 AM
Are you serious?
Oh come on no one ever said that global warming will drive out winter entirely. We are talking about a global AVERAGE temperature raising of just a few degrees Celsius. The weather is going to become more extreme in both directions. Or in simple words: If your summer is three degrees hotter than normal then your winter can be two degrees colder than normal and you still have a raised AVERAGE temperature.
I normally do not wade into politics and other BS, but that was not how the whole 'Global Warming' thing was sold to the world at large.
I see this type of statement used more and more to explain what is going on. It is not 'global warming', it is now 'climate change'. There is always a new improved slogan to justify someone elses opinion. Every hear the phrase 'If you don't like the weather wait a day (or a few hours)"? This is the weather and climate on a grand million year scale.
It seems like the revisionism of people gets more and more extreme when they find that their pet cause has become increasingly difficult to justify.
I used to have a link of a webpage that did NOTHING but link stories about global warming. It was HILARIOUS. They would have link stories published within DAYS of each other. One would directly contradict the other. I wish I could find it again just to spread the humor.
Now before you go all enviromentalist on me, I DO believe that there is Global Warming, Climate Change, or whatever you want to call it. I see the Earth as a large thermodynamic engine driven by the sun. If you look at weather as nothing more than the transfer of heat and energy from one location to another things make a lot more sense. You have the same amount of energy that is being distributed in different proportions(<- not the right word but it will do) based on many many variables. Unfortunately, you have people who do not know, understand, or refuse to acknowledge some of these variables.
The Earth will survive, of that I am certain. However, just like the millions of other species that once inhabited this globe, humanity just may become extinct due to changes in the enviroment that we could not adapt to.
To think that mankind can CHANGE the enviroment in any meaningful way considering the size and energy of the system is pure hubris.
Using this concern to influence and control people based on the lie that they have to do something about it is pure evil.
Torvald Von Mansee
03-05-10, 10:52 AM
*facepalm*
im ashamed to live in the same country as you
Imagine what it's like to be an American, than!!!!
Spoon 11th
03-05-10, 11:13 AM
Even though the temperature has been below freezing constantly since beginning of december, it took a long time this year until the northern Baltic froze, since the water escaped through Danish channels due to wind direction and air pressure. Water level is one meter lower than usual, but when that movement stopped, ice accumulated very quickly.
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/
About snow coverage then:
http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/2000_decade_snow.png
One would assume, that global warming, if it existed in any statistically significant way, would result the rain coming down in a water state of matter, not snow.
antikristuseke
03-05-10, 11:26 AM
I normally do not wade into politics and other BS, but that was not how the whole 'Global Warming' thing was sold to the world at large.
how many times must this be said before people listen?
Do not get your information about science from the media or alarmist mouthpieces, go read peer reviewed journals to see what scientists actually say.
I see this type of statement used more and more to explain what is going on. It is not 'global warming', it is now 'climate change'. There is always a new improved slogan to justify someone elses opinion. Every hear the phrase 'If you don't like the weather wait a day (or a few hours)"? This is the weather and climate on a grand million year scale.
It seems like the revisionism of people gets more and more extreme when they find that their pet cause has become increasingly difficult to justify.
I used to have a link of a webpage that did NOTHING but link stories about global warming. It was HILARIOUS. They would have link stories published within DAYS of each other. One would directly contradict the other. I wish I could find it again just to spread the humor.
Now before you go all enviromentalist on me, I DO believe that there is Global Warming, Climate Change, or whatever you want to call it. I see the Earth as a large thermodynamic engine driven by the sun. If you look at weather as nothing more than the transfer of heat and energy from one location to another things make a lot more sense. You have the same amount of energy that is being distributed in different proportions(<- not the right word but it will do) based on many many variables. Unfortunately, you have people who do not know, understand, or refuse to acknowledge some of these variables.
The Earth will survive, of that I am certain. However, just like the millions of other species that once inhabited this globe, humanity just may become extinct due to changes in the enviroment that we could not adapt to.
To think that mankind can CHANGE the enviroment in any meaningful way considering the size and energy of the system is pure hubris.
Using this concern to influence and control people based on the lie that they have to do something about it is pure evil.
While I don't really disagree with the majority of what you say, to assume that mankind has not affected the climate is naive at best. Yes, theclmate on earth was not static before humans, but we are having an effect on it.
Yes, the climate on earth was not static before humans, but we are having an effect on it.
That may be but unless we're willing to kill off 3-4 billion of us we're not going to change it one bit.
Schroeder
03-05-10, 12:08 PM
I used to have a link of a webpage that did NOTHING but link stories about global warming. It was HILARIOUS. They would have link stories published within DAYS of each other. One would directly contradict the other. I wish I could find it again just to spread the humor.
You can find the same amount of garbage on sites of the "No global warming" faction. I don't care about rubbish on the net, there are plenty of people talking who have no clue of what they say on both sides. Scientist however (and I mean real scientist and not nutrition guys and ex presidential candidates who talk about thinks they don't understand) see things a little different.
To think that mankind can CHANGE the environment in any meaningful way considering the size and energy of the system is pure hubris.
What makes our climate? I'm afraid it's a bit more than just the sun. The forests for example also play a big role in it and so far mankind is pretty good at reducing forests... so you think that has no effect whatsoever on the climate? CO2 in greenhouses does increase the temperature but in the open atmosphere it all of a sudden loses this ability? Strange....:hmm2:
antikristuseke
03-05-10, 12:10 PM
That may be but unless we're willing to kill off 3-4 billion of us we're not going to change it one bit.
The best wecan hope for is damage control, still, better than nothing.
HunterICX
03-05-10, 12:25 PM
The best wecan hope for is damage control, still, better than nothing.
Forget it, as long there's greed in us humans we don't give a sh!t what would happen to the next of our kin or that of others.
if we actually cared we would stop driving cars this instant, close the factories and everything else that polutes the climate.
and if you ask me how I look at humanity, if the climate will wipe us out...well it ain't a loss.
I do pitty the ones that will get stuck in that event...
I like how the media spreads fear on the climate topic, world in danger etc....ha..full of BS as usual...you don't need to be a scientist to know that the climate is always changing and that we don't effect it much then perhaps slighty speed it up....but ones its about to change drasticly the road to that big change is going faster and faster...and there aint a damn thing on this planet thats going to stop it.
HunterICX
Bubblehead Nuke
03-05-10, 05:03 PM
You can find the same amount of garbage on sites of the "No global warming" faction. I don't care about rubbish on the net, there are plenty of people talking who have no clue of what they say on both sides. Scientist however (and I mean real scientist and not nutrition guys and ex presidential candidates who talk about thinks they don't understand) see things a little different.
I do not follow the mainstream media, I do not follow the inane ramblings of politicians both ex and current who have an agenda or product to sell. I look at the data. I look in the published journals and i look at the DATA and not the evaluation of that data. Data can be a funny thing. It can be manipulated to say anything you want it to.
I do find it amazing that those WITH the raw data refuse to release it. they claim that we will not be able to interpret it without their very learn brains doing it for us.
What makes our climate? I'm afraid it's a bit more than just the sun. The forests for example also play a big role in it and so far mankind is pretty good at reducing forests... so you think that has no effect whatsoever on the climate? CO2 in greenhouses does increase the temperature but in the open atmosphere it all of a sudden loses this ability? Strange....:hmm2:
I did not say that the sun = our climate. What I said was:
"I see the Earth as a large thermodynamic engine driven by the sun"
Maybe I should have been more careful and said POWERED instead of driven.
Our climate is self regulating. It has so be to have survived for millions of years and handled AT LEAST ONE major planet killer that wiped out most of the life on the planet.
With that said, We cut down trees and there will be a corrective action driven by the climate. Too much CO2 and you get algae blooms and such. The remaining flora derives more energy due to an increased CO2 content and thus growth rates increase. Once the CO2 comes down the growth rate will decrease back to norms.
For any and all imbalances in the climate, there is a resulting corrective action. If we heated up, the Earth will cool back down. The larger the temp increase, the larger and farther the cooldown will be.
Is it right for mankind to dirty things up? No, it is not. But again, can we AFFECT the climate in any large and profound ways? No, not unless we start detonating nuclear weapons in large numbers. But by then we will have other concerns to worry about.
if we actually cared we would stop driving cars this instant, close the factories and everything else that polutes the climate.
You mean if we actually cared we'd just kill ourselves all off which is exactly what you are advocating here.
HunterICX
03-05-10, 06:47 PM
You mean if we actually cared we'd just kill ourselves all off which is exactly what you are advocating here.
Well, we don't kill ourselves...we kill others to survive as nature alone is not able to support what we need to live as we are with too many.
HunterICX
Well, we don't kill ourselves...we kill others to survive as nature alone is not able to support what we need to live as we are with too many.
HunterICX
Ah, I see. Of course we'd have to kill them without polluting the climate somehow. After all 5 billion corpses is gonna be a really big mess. :dead:
Ahh took longer than I thought it would to get around to global warming/cooling debates. The OP was purely around the seafaring aspect not about the average temp over several years. Thanks for your contributions though.:D
Jimbuna
03-06-10, 12:19 PM
You'd cause a bloody riot in a convent :O:
Who me gov? You've got nothing on me.:O:
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