UBI, Will it be the last Subsim made

[corvette k225]

For the folks that have SH5.Will this be the last Subsim that will be made by UBI ? I will not vote because I donnot have SH5. Just thinking what the sales are going to be like.

[CCIP]

Why would WE know that? That's up to Ubi. And it's too early to talk about it, they're still not done with its development/patching cycle. That's not something that will be known for months or years ahead. And anyone who says otherwise is full of baloney.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Why would WE know that? That's up to Ubi. And it's too early to talk about it, they're still not done with its development/patching cycle. That's not something that will be known for months or years ahead. And anyone who says otherwise is full of baloney.

:yep:

Have gone through SH4 from 1.0-1.5 I agree, the process is far from over. Is it a shame that the game was released unfinished, yes, but I would not right it off yet.

[SteamWake]

SH4 was the last subsim made.

This is a FPS submarine game not really a simulator.

[Sailor Steve]

Well, if it turns out it can't be modded as much as they say, and it can't be fixed, then it just might kill the franchise.

On the other hand, if it turns out to be as moddable as it looks like it might be, there might not be a need for another one.

But CCIP is correct: There is no way to answer that question, so yet again I didn't vote.

[pythos]

Seeing the slew of mean, thoughtless, and downright wrong statements made by people that don't even have the product...I wonder why Ubi kept developing the game. I was surprised the idea of a fifth was even ventured follwing the debacle known as Silent Hunter 4.

I hope it is not the last subsim from Ubi, but I would not be surprised if it is.

[Sailor Steve]

SH4 was the last subsim made.

This is a FPS submarine game not really a simulator.
Yer a mean one, Mr Grinch!:rotfl2:

[Nordmann]

Seeing the slew of mean, thoughtless, and downright wrong statements made by people that don't even have the product...I wonder why Ubi kept developing the game. I was surprised the idea of a fifth was even ventured follwing the debacle known as Silent Hunter 4.

I hope it is not the last subsim from Ubi, but I would not be surprised if it is.

If you release unfinished and problematic software, expect the community to venture forth a harsh response. They have no one but themselves to blame, and if they decide not follow up with further releases, oh well, at least we have SH3, 4 and now 5 (assuming it's fixable). That's more than most niche markets usually get, and to be fair, any lack of success is purely down to their business practices.

Personally, I don't think we've seen the last of Silent Hunter, but what form it now takes is still very much the question.

[gutted]

We're only mean and critical because of our love for the series.

If it was released in this state without much fuss.. it would be a signal that no-one cared and the genre was indeed dead.

Back when i used to play WW2OL, i always said that the day people stopped bitching about a new point release was the day it would die.

[Kresge]

It seems that it's time for another publisher to take over the series or start anew. This team has not really improved upon what they started with and, in fact, appear to be drifting away from most of the aspects we enjoy in a sub sim. :cry:

[Gunnodayak]

SteamWake (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/member.php?u=215050) is right, the question raised in the poll is not correct, this is not a submarine simulation game, so there can't be some relevant answers. In fact, even SH3 and SH4 weren't simulators completely, but at least, they had around 20-30% simulator odour. And really, the graphics are not so great, except the water, maybe ... The people look like zombies, the perspective is somehow like in fist HalfLife of the series and so on. It's strange, a lot of people are talking about how amazing are the graphics, but they really aren't, so even in the shooter/RPG area the game is a failure. I've really tried to play it, but everything is so unintuitive and bizarre.

[Iron Budokan]

Frankly, if this is the direction they think submarine simulations need to go, a Frankenstein's monster pastiche of RPG/Console/Arcade/Unlockable Content, then I hope this is the last time Ubi will ever try to make one.

But, like aways, sales will determine that. Given what I've read so far, however....

Seriously. I have NEVER seen as much anger, bitterness and frustration over a Silent Hunter game as I have seen in the last twenty-four hours from gamers. Ubi totally screwed the pooch on this one. They took a fantastic franchise that was flying at 10.000 feet with SH3 and augured it right into the ground.

It's time some other company had a chance at this, imo. Ubi...well, let's face facts. We've come to know what to expect from Ubi, haven't we? No one should be surprised. As far as sub sims go SH3 was their zenith. SH5 is on the fast track to being their nadir.

I'm sorry for the people who bought the game and aren't happy. But, boy, am I ever glad I saved my hard-earned money.

[Gunnodayak]

I'm sorry for the people who bought the game and aren't happy. But, boy, am I ever glad I saved my hard-earned money.
You know, I am already at the point called "Forget about the money...". Really, it's not about money anymore for me, it's about all that I've dreamt this game will be capable to offer us, and the big nothing, emptiness that hit me. I am speaking for myself, for other this may be a great game. I was pretty angry to elaniba and the dev team, but now I am starting to feel some empathy, some kind of pity. I am starting to realize that this is their level of capabilities, it's not about the UBI suits direction. I was angry because I've thought that they can do a lot better, but they are not allowed, by time constraints, by UBI marketing decisions, by the mood phases, but now I begin to understand. And it's sad.
I've really swallowed my anger. And I am willing to help them in any way that I can, they woke up mercy feelings in me. We had higher expectation than the level they are able to achieve. They are not to blame, we are. All those details that made SH3 and SH4 playable and enjoyable were added by modders. The devs just put us on the plate a raw material, without an artistic or aesthetic form. The modders were the Michelangelos, the devs were just the ones that brought the raw stone to the moders workshop and throw it on the ground, cleaning themselves of the sweat and dirt after that. And of the responsibilities as well. The history is just repeating in some way, but the worst possible one till now.

[Jeevz]

Seriously. I have NEVER seen as much anger, bitterness and frustration over a Silent Hunter game as I have seen in the last twenty-four hours from gamers.

I have, right after SH4 and SH3 were each released. Especially 4.

[FIREWALL]

I don't need a poll, this is a No Brainer.

If it doesn't sell, I hope you all didn't throw away your SH3\SH4 discs.

But... Since it hasn't even been delivered to some countries AND... hasn't been fully Patched yet AND... Our modders haven't had that much time with it. Then and only THEN...

TIME WILL TELL. The rest is just BS and Sour Grapes.

[Iliaz]

Having the game stop at '43 stinks like Add-On three miles downwind...

Somethings coming up, I'm sure and it'll be just as lazy of an approach.

[Gunnodayak]

Having the game stop at '43 stinks like Add-On three miles downwind...

Somethings coming up, I'm sure and it'll be just as lazy of an approach.
The sad thing is that I am not so sure the add-on will "look" or "feel" much better ... "We didn't have the time, blah, blah, so we gave you just the first half because you were so anxious ... but now we are giving you the full plate!" It's obvious, twice the money, it's a psychological marketing trick ... and the suckers like me are supposed to empty their pockets once again.

[Iridium]

Yes, it'll be the last. The combination of the DRM fiasco and the extraordinary amount of bugs being discovered are going to kill PC sales. Ubisoft will blame piracy for the low sales and will continue moving all of their games to the console where it is "less easily" (much more easily) pirated. Consoles, generally not well adapted to hardcore sims like the SH series used to be, won't be a proper platform for the genre and SH will die out.

edit- That is to say, this will occur unless they decide to move in the direction that EA seems to want to go and just use a subscription payment method where most of the game data is hosted in the cloud.

[goldorak]

Yes, it'll be the last. The combination of the DRM fiasco and the extraordinary amount of bugs being discovered are going to kill PC sales. Ubisoft will blame piracy for the low sales and will continue moving all of their games to the console where it is "less easily" (much more easily) pirated. Consoles, generally not well adapted to hardcore sims like the SH series used to be, won't be a proper platform for the genre and SH will die out.

edit- That is to say, this will occur unless they decide to move in the direction that EA seems to want to go and just use a subscription payment method where most of the game data is hosted in the cloud.

How is Ubsisoft going to blame the pirates since the new DRM scheme was specifically designed to counter that threat ? Oh you mean the DRM is ineffective and was designed only to piss your customers ? :har:

[Iliaz]

Big companys are pretty good at farting out warped visions of piracy to explain there shortcomings. Not that one of their desicions ever where faulty.

[Iridium]

How is Ubsisoft going to blame the pirates since the new DRM scheme was specifically designed to counter that threat ? Oh you mean the DRM is ineffective and was designed only to piss your customers ? :har:

Heh, yeah, that's pretty much it, though "we blame piracy" has become so commonplace an excuse for poor game sales that if nothing else they'd blame pirates out of habit.

I'm genuinely starting to wonder if the DRM is a deliberate attempt not to thwart piracy so much but to drive PC gamers away and provide an excuse to close PC operations.

But that's just the tinfoil hatter in me.

[Nordmann]

Big companys are pretty good at farting out warped visions of piracy to explain there shortcomings. Not that one of their desicions ever where faulty.

Yeah, if I had a pound for every time I've heard a developer/publisher blame piracy for their mistakes, then I'd be a very rich man indeed! Never mind the fact that they don't give a damn about their customers, the very people keeping their company afloat, the war against piracy takes precedence over releasing a quality product. Brilliant!

[pythos]

I am gonna ignore the last set of stupid posts and jump to one that popped my eyes open.

"I only hope no one has thrown out their sh3 and sh4 disks"

Let me say, I very rarely throw out disks. I still have my FS 98 disk, as well as my Sh2 disk. Heck I think somewhere there is my Silent Service floppy disk :)

I don't think some of you have the game yet. I would like you to post some screen shots (not ones from the net, but in fact from your machine). Otherwise I and I hope others here will take your posts and throw them in the bin.

all I have seen from some of you is you saying how you hate the game, how it is a complete failure, not even a simulator, and so on. You were doing this BEFORE the game came out legally.

I understand the frustrations with incomplete games and crummy copy protection schemes. But just ripping into a game with statements that clearly show you do not posses the game, does nothing for the community.

Golden Rivet has done the first of what I hope will be a bunch of fair and critical reviews that Ubi devs will look at and apply to the next set of patches.

[JamesT73J]

Seriously. I have NEVER seen as much anger, bitterness and frustration over a Silent Hunter game as I have seen in the last twenty-four hours from gamers. Ubi totally screwed the pooch on this one. They took a fantastic franchise that was flying at 10.000 feet with SH3 and augured it right into the ground.



Erm, were you around when SH2/3/4 were released? Really, it was just like this.

[Gammelpreusse]

Erm, were you around when SH2/3/4 were released? Really, it was just like this.

nah, it was was not. I have been around when SH 3 and 4 were released, I also have been lurking here during these times, and at UBI.

I would have agreed to you up until around 2 days ago, there was the usual stuff about the game beeing broken (which it is not, in many parts thanks to the already released mods) and some voices of reason.

But what happens right now with all that DRM stuff is a novelty. There are only very, very few people here able to stick with their positive outlook, Neal beeing a prime example. There have been columns in german news mags enteirely dedicated to this issue by UBIsoft, it really is a big deal this time around, not anymore the usual heat. I personally try hard to see the good sides, but this time around even I get emotional, which means something, as my patience for bugs and glitches usually is quite high as long its not about potential game killers.

I am also losing hope this game gets the same quality mod attention SH III and SH IV got. Maybe I am spoiled...well scratch that, I AM spoiled. But getting back to basics is hard and I am not sure a mere stock Silent Hunter with a couple visual and control mods is worth all that fuss and frustration connected to the DRM now.

Though I fear the publishers will try to see it the way you do.

[JamesT73J]

Though I fear the publishers will try to see it the way you do.

I'll make a couple of predictions, and in time, we'll see what happens.

i) The series will be patched. DRM will be stabilised, and it is here to stay.

ii) The community will continue their open source efforts to improve the game.

There is absolutely no evidence that this release qualititively is poorer than previous versions, likewise there is no evidence that it does not have as promising a future as previous versions. It is far, far to early to tell.

I know you've seen the Independent article (http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/bestselling-pc-download-games-of-the-week-purchasers-unperturbed-by-protective-measures-1918550.html) so I suspect it is unlikely that the collectivist teeth-grinding on Subsim will make much difference.

I'm cross about DRM, but as I've written elsewhere it is a difficult response to a difficult problem, and I fear - like piracy - it is here to stay.


J

[Gammelpreusse]

I'll make a couple of predictions, and in time, we'll see what happens.

i) The series will be patched. DRM will be stabilised, and it is here to stay.

ii) The community will continue their open source efforts to improve the game.

There is absolutely no evidence that this release qualititively is poorer than previous versions, likewise there is no evidence that it does not have as promising a future as previous versions. It is far, far to early to tell.

I know you've seen the Independent article (http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/bestselling-pc-download-games-of-the-week-purchasers-unperturbed-by-protective-measures-1918550.html) so I suspect it is unlikely that the collectivist teeth-grinding on Subsim will make much difference.

I'm cross about DRM, but as I've written elsewhere it is a difficult response to a difficult problem, and I fear - like piracy - it is here to stay.


J


I am not saying Silent Hunter V is worse, I actually consider it more fun then SHIV stock when it came out, I even love the new GUI and all the ideas coming with it; no, I am saying that the "mood" and "perception" is worse.
Much worse, actually. DRM got a first impression that can be rightfully called as as bad as it can get. You just can't ignore this anymore. The innocense is gone. This DRM issue now hangs over each gamer like a damokles sword, never giving the same feeling of safety and "my game" as before. You come home to fire up your machine and blast enemy convoys, but now you have to make sure your internet is active, runs stable, and even if that is the case there always may be a cut out which is not even your fault. This may be a non issue for folks who grow up with this kind of software, but to those that actually stuck with the development of games since pre home computer times, this new development is hardly a pleasant expirience.
This DRM, I said this before, simply adds a new stress layer and insecureness to an expirience that's mostly there to forget about stress, for having a good time of fun and achievement in a serious environment. This is not a given anymore. The whole outlook of the franchise is simply too unpredictable and I doubt UBI spends the money in hard- und software capable enough to negate any threat to connection stability. They certainly did not yet.

And when you live in an area with a wobbly internet connection anyways, which usually only causes occasional lags in games but here stops it completly, then SH V does not offer lots of perspective. What makes it even worse is that UBI a) completlely ignored their customers in their obsession to fight piracy and b) ignores much more successful methods already employed by other companies based on reward, not punishment.

Sorry, I simpy can't afford the symphathy to UBI here, despite my understanding for their situation. And their unwillingness to communicate during these times also lets me doubt their commitment to customer satisfaction and calming the waves.

[Commie]

Still have SH III and SH IV so no problem if UBI doesn't make any more sub sims. Sooner or later someone else will anyway.

[Iron Budokan]

Erm, were you around when SH2/3/4 were released? Really, it was just like this.

I was around, and no, it wasn't at this level.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Will this be the last Subsim that Ubisoft will make?
I certainly hope so! :yeah:
I bought and enjoyed SH3, I bought and edured SH4, I will not keep propping up this series with my cash. Too little simulation, too many bugs and far too much reliance on the players to fix this broken ****.

Give it a decade of no Silent Hunter and somebody else will spot the gap in the market and step in with their own subsim.
I can wait a decade.

[alexradu89]

UBI isn't the only company that has to make sub sims, one day someone will make a Cold-War era subsim (maybe start out as indies), or a modern era subsim with US vs Russia (that kind of stuff, we don't want to get too sci-fi) typhoons vs virginia class (etc.) ;)

[FIREWALL]

If the franchise ends it won't be because of the consumers.

To many preordered or bought before release to show good faith.

If there's any money in WWII SubSims somebody else will give it a shot.

I remember posts here "Why isn't there a good WWI Flight sim ?" Then a small group did RoF !!! And even they wised up. :yep:

While I doubt Ubisoft will go under anytime soon. In this case THEY are the Losers. Not Me !!! :nope:

I have enough Sims to keep me happy. :yep:

[karamazovnew]

I certainly hope so! :yeah:
I bought and enjoyed SH3, I bought and edured SH4, I will not keep propping up this series with my cash. Too little simulation, too many bugs and far too much reliance on the players to fix this broken ****.

Give it a decade of no Silent Hunter and somebody else will spot the gap in the market and step in with their own subsim.
I can wait a decade.

:salute: You've expressed everything I've been feeling for the last 4 days.