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View Full Version : Much too long review of SH5...


ParaB
03-04-10, 09:50 AM
Yep, I have it. The missus (god bless her) surprised me yesterday with a pristine copy of Silent Hunter 5.

"Eh, something wrong, honey?"
"No, ah...that's totally sweet, my dear. It's just that..."
"Did I buy the wrong game?"
"No..uh... see, there's this personal boycott thing because of that online DRM and the need to stand up against what those greedy publishers throw at us honest gamers, the future of PC gaming and PC simming and..."

*cue weird look from she-who-must-be-obeyed*

"So, you don't want it?"
"Err...no! It's just that, ah... it's how those publishers treat us and it's wrong and..."
"I can take it back. Just wanted to be nice. With all your U-boat books and that ugly ship (the Revell VIIc modell isn't UGLY!), that looong boring movie we watched last week and those other U-boat games (they're SIMS!) you're playing and...
"No, no! It's fine, really, my dear, thank you!"

*cue deep sigh and yet another strange look from s.w.m.b.o.*

***********************

Ok. I couldn't give it back. Just couldn't. Not with that DVD smiling seductively at me...

So, might as well write how I feel about Silent Hunter 5.
Installation was hassle-free, as was setting up an account with UBISofts's Uplay online platform. I won't write much about UBI's DRM scheme, everything that needs to be said has already been said here. Just for the record: IMO tying an offline-game to an online account with the need to be connected to said account all the time while playing an offline! game is a slap in the face of honest consumers. Wrote an Email to UBI customer support on that issue. Won't help much, I know...

1st impressions are actually quite favourable. Grafics are absolutely stunning and provide for some scenes that rival the beauty of naval paintings. Especially the lighting/shadows and new water/foam effects are incredibly well done.

FPS on my system (Core2DuoE6750, GTX260, 2Gigs RAM, WinXP) range from low 20s in the sub to 60+ outside. Once I switched shadows to medium and set FSAA in the drivers software to 'application preference' (set to 2x) FPS improved quite a bit and 'lags' disappeard.

The sub interior is beautifully rendered too, although quite some details are missing. Still, the ability to finally walk through the whole boat is something this old skipper has been dreaming of since Silent Service.

The initial favourable impressions fade rather quickly though once you step deeper into the game. The crew is a mixed bag. Models and textures are OK, but animations are FAR too few and quite often when interacting with a crew member it will 'beam' to a new position, sometimes directly behind you. :hmmm:

There's a concept called the "uncanny valley", which basically means the more "real" a model becomes the more the subtle differences to the "real world" become glaringly apparent and distracting. This is very much true for SH5. When in Aces of the Deep I ordered a crash dive, I heard the alarm bell, followed by shouting and the sound of trampling feet while staring at a 2d-screen. But in your head you saw the scene from Das Boot, so it worked. In SH5 now you have this awesome interior and a real 3d-crew, but when you order a crash dive nothing happens. Same in other situations, including being under attack oder performing repairs where the visual feedback just isn't enough to convey the atmosphere. Add to that the problem that especially the forward torpedo room feels terribly empty (in reality this was the 'home' for most crewmen), the general lack of crew moving around the boat and soon you get the feeling that while surely nice to look at there's simply quite a bit missing here.

Crew interaction:

Well... after 3 patrols I have to say this is a mixed bag, too. The general idea with a morale system, "upgrades" and special abilities isn't bad per se, the problem is that at the moment the whole system seems totally borked and bugged. Some things just don't work, some vital orders simply are missing and when your officers in the middle of combat reply to you with a smug "Sorry, can't do, Herr Kaleun." you want to go for your Luger right there...
You can talk to your crew (at least some of them) to boost morale, which is again a nice idea, but when on the 3rd patrol you still see the same "talk options" like on the 1st, this feature quickly falls into the ever-increasing category of things that are basically nice but don't work in SH5.

Still with me?

:D

Great. Next stop, the simulation:

I play with manual targetting, and for once I have to say that getting a firing solution and sinking ships in SH5 is fun. Yep, I said it: fun. And SH5 in the same sentence. I actually prefer the manual targetting in SH5 to that in SH3. The 'targetting dialogue' works well, and most importantly, efficient. Of course, not everything's fine (who would've thought it?), since the stadimeter works kind of erratically (sometimes you have to measure up to the smokestacks, sometimes to the top of the masts to get the correct distance to a target) and the new recognition manual, while providing a nice 'filter' option really lacks in detail and, at least at 1680x1050 resolution, is too small.

As nice as manual targetting works so utterly rubbish is the actual interaction with the boat. Course changes, depth changes, due to the inane GUI this all is much more a nuissance than prodecures that are easily performed.

Torpedoes suffer almost no duds so far, out of 50+ fired eels I've yet to see one not work perfectly...

Diving times seem FAR to quick and overall the boat seems a tad too maneuverable, same with (de-)acceleration.

The world:

Here Sh5 has clearly improved. Harbours and coastlines are far more detailed than before, very nice. Lots of traffic, too. Big improvement compared to, for example, stock SH3. Some things are a bit weird though, like constant air patrols by pairs of Hurricanes off the coast of England. In the middle of the night. :o

The AI:

Mixed bag, like so much in SH5. While your boat is on the surface the AI seems pretty decent, and gunfire will seriously damage your boat in short time. No deck-gunning destroyers anymore. Surface night attacks so far work rather well. I've also seen much less "confused herd of cows"-behaviour with convoys. And so far (knock on wood) none of the total-AI-shutdowns I've seen in stock SHIV. As far as ASuW is concerned, the AI is (so far) not exactly deadly, but I have seen them depth-charge me with fair accuracy. Could be better though, but so far it's not a serious issue for me. I wonder how the AI 'scales' with the boat/crew improvements like more silent engine etc...

The GUI:

*takes a deep breath*

I hate it.

Simple as that. Whoever devised that interface should be hang, drawn and quartered. Then forced to watch a "best of"video of 40 years of Eurovision Song Contest. Then beat with a wet towel.

No compass. In a UBoat-sim. This best describes all what's wrong with it.

And no, I don't think having the interface of my WW2-sub looking like an Iphone-app is a great idea, no matter what your market analysis says, dear UBI.

:stare:

Saving grace is the manual targetting dialogue as mentioned earlier, which at least works.

The campaign:

Well, so far it's been fun. Really. I was sceptical when I heard about the new campaign system but so far I like it. A lot, actually. The "missions" provide a decent 'background' to your ship-hunting adventures and actually improve the "WW2 feel". You're still free to go roaming around but now your actions have a more defined goal.

The manual:

It's one of the worst, most useless manuals I've ever seen for a complex game in 25 years of gaming. Every word wasted on this...thing... is one too much. Shame on you, UBI!


******

Conclusion:

Terrible, eh?

Actually, not. Despite all the problems, bugs and questionable design choices I still enjoy Silent Hunter 5. Kind of. It certainly isn't the subsim turd some people are claiming it to be. It's not an arcade shooter-thingie. It's not the end of the world.

But is it a great game? No. Not in its current state. If I'd have to rate the game (V1.1) I'd give it a 7/10. Silent Hunter 5 needs some serious work by the developers. Some is simply bug-fixing (deck gun crew bug, morale loss bug, etc...), some is implementing missing basic game elements (depth under keel, compass, etc...).

And: this game needs modding. It needs it more than SH3 and SH4. Fortunately, SH5 seems very open to modding, including even scripting this time. This means that over time Sh5 might indeed become a great sim.


Cheers, and sorry for the long read...

:arrgh!:

Onkel Neal
03-04-10, 09:54 AM
Well done, enjoyed the review. :shucks:

Sonarman
03-04-10, 09:55 AM
Me too, and it was just the right length or depth!

mookiemookie
03-04-10, 10:01 AM
It appears that you and I are of the exact same mind on this. I agree with most every point you made - except for the stadimeter. It's necessary to be confident in the readings you get from it in order to set up a reliable torpedo attack. I had to mod the old "Watch officer estimates range" command into the game in order to get around having a wrong stadimeter.

ReFaN
03-04-10, 10:01 AM
Agree on most points, a good review :woot:

BlackSpot
03-04-10, 10:01 AM
Nice. Good balanced review :yeah:

Immacolata
03-04-10, 10:06 AM
I am glad this review is up. It gives me enough of an impression on how the game plays that I have decided to buy it once the next patch has hit and they fix the most game breaking problems.

SodyM
03-04-10, 10:14 AM
Thank you for your review..I'm sure, I'll buy SH5 later :x

Will-Rommel
03-04-10, 10:18 AM
This is the review i would have written myself, so good job ! :know:

wetwarev7
03-04-10, 10:19 AM
Thanks for the review!

Bilge_Rat
03-04-10, 10:28 AM
very nice and balanced.

funny coincidence though that so many people who were boycotting the game have been receiving it as a gift from their wives....:rotfl2:

Darkreaver1980
03-04-10, 10:37 AM
Realy nice review, readed every line of it and i agree to 100%.

SH 5 has huge potential, im so glad that i buyed it. SH will be like the best Sim ever with some mods+patches :)

himlaviz
03-04-10, 10:42 AM
Good review :)

While I don't mind the look of the GUI it sure lacks many features, like rudder controls, compass and things like that (maybe half of it is because one is used to many of them from SH3/GWX3). UBI has some work to do here, not as much change the look but to add stuff, more WW2 era lookish UI can be modded if need be I guess.

The Manual, where to begin... I lack words, just like the manual. :O:

I think what made older games feel realistic was the package deal with manuals that had some history, "real world tactics" and good description of the game/sim features. Thinking back at games like Red Storm Rising, Falcon 4.0, Longbow 2 and such.

The "uncanny valley" might have more impact on future gaming/simulations. Read something like if a robot is 50% human we find it charming as it try to be human and forget that its not while a robot that is 98% human we will focus on the missing 2% instead and find faults with it.

Thanks for sharing and god bless your missus who bailed you out this time... :D

Galanti
03-04-10, 10:45 AM
Simple as that. Whoever devised that interface should be hang, drawn and quartered. Then forced to watch a "best of"video of 40 years of Eurovision Song Contest. Then beat with a wet towel.

I would disagree just a little. The interface design is actually quite slick and elegant from a graphic design standpoint. The artist who designed it should be commended. It's whoever decided that it belonged in a WW2 subsim that needs to be hang, drawn and quartered. Absolutely unforgivable IMO.

Work is being done as we speak on retrofitting the HUD GUI elements in the Mods Workshop, but the whole rotten mess from main menu to ship recognition manual as got to go. Has anyone seen the radio message popup yet and compared that to SH4's?

bert8for3
03-04-10, 10:46 AM
Real nice summary of it :rock:

bert8for3
03-04-10, 10:47 AM
... I had to mod the old "Watch officer estimates range" command into the game in order to get around having a wrong stadimeter.

I'd be interested to know how you did that, or is it posted up somewhere?

FIREWALL
03-04-10, 10:55 AM
Fine review Parab :salute:

As far as the virtual manual is concerned...

I use it to level my virtual table. :DL

corvette k225
03-04-10, 11:00 AM
I have not heard anyone say anything about a mission builder like there
is in SH3 and SH4. It is hard for my to beleave there is not one. But mybe
there is not? what a big down fall that will be.:down:

Frnocom
03-04-10, 11:01 AM
Realy nice review, readed every line of it and i agree to 100%.

SH 5 has huge potential, im so glad that i buyed it. SH will be like the best Sim ever with some mods+patches :)

I agree. Great review. But I agree with the second line even more.

I hope the modders out there can adapt one of the great modded SH3 GUI's to this game such as the Magui GUI. I wish we could just use the SH5 platform simply just for the graphical improvements and such, and try to get it back to SH3ish gameplay.

I myself bought SH5 yesterday and have only had minimal game time with it. This is no joke....two minutes into the training level, my graphics card died:damn:. I have a 9800GTX that should have been decent to run this. It is now currently on it's way back to EVGA for an RMA. In the meantime, I had to replace it with my 7800GT that I bought 5 years ago. I had to dial every graphics setting slider down to it's lowest setting, un-check every box in the GFX menu (except windowed mode) and even dial the resolution down to 1024x768...and playing that on my 1920x1080 monitor in windowed mode. Ugh, the game is hardly even playable with a 7800GT. Anyways....I am just going to wait until my RMA comes back....not even worth playing under the circumstances. But I just wanted to say to those who are writing the negative reviews.....wait a year or two.....after the modders sink their teeth into this, it will be the best subsim we have seen and we will never look back.

The General
03-04-10, 11:03 AM
@ParaB,

I think I'm in love with your wife :D What a sweetheart!

ParaB
03-04-10, 11:16 AM
@all: thanks, glad you like my review.

@corvette k225: there certainly is a mission editor, just haven't found the time to fool around with it yet. From 1st looks it seems to be much like the editors in SH3/4.


@ParaB,

I think I'm in love with your wife :D What a sweetheart!

Hands off!
:haha:

I'm apparently one of few guys who are lucky to have girlfriend that actually is interested in computer games. She's a big RPG fan (currently on her 2nd playthrough of Mass Effect 2) and works right next to a games shop, so it's usually her who buys games anyway.

:03:

KL-alfman
03-04-10, 11:47 AM
@all: thanks, glad you like my review.



thx for your contribution to the community.
what do you think of ratings like 3/10 some game-mags did?

Noren
03-04-10, 12:14 PM
Thx for a great review, very informative!

Wow, a girlfriend who plays pc games for her own sake? Ahh, your lying!:rotfl2:

jlederer
03-04-10, 12:30 PM
Lol re: interaction with your wife :-)

I think devs really overlooked immersion with regard to ui design in favor of "ease of use" typical of iphone apps.

Example - from air and CO2 and battery gauges in SH3 to percentage displays? Apparently the concern is that genY is unfamiliar with analog gauges and only knows how to read digital displays. May be true but sux for those of us who love realism.

Anyway I agree it appears there is potential, if community is willing to engage in modding given the DRM.

shawnyp420
03-04-10, 12:31 PM
Not bad. I have to agree with nearly everything. I'd like to emphasize the crappy crew interactions though (or lack of) as being extremely disappointing.

ParaB
03-04-10, 12:47 PM
thx for your contribution to the community.
what do you think of ratings like 3/10 some game-mags did?

I think Mick Schnelle's review on Gamersglobal is a bit too harsh, although I concur with his general sentiment that the game simply feels unfinished. I did my review as an avid subsim fan though, so I'm most probably more lenient than, say, a 'normal' reviewer.

Armistead
03-04-10, 12:53 PM
This another post of someone buying the game that swore they wouldn't and blaming it on their gal so they could talk about how the game plays.....:har:

Sailor Steve
03-04-10, 12:56 PM
For someone who doesn't have it, that was great information. Your take on actually playing it is very close to what I've gathered from reading all the 'opinions', both positive and negative.

I loved your intro as well.
that looong boring movie
:rotfl2:

maerean_m
03-04-10, 12:58 PM
Well said, ParaB, it's so true what you said (and it makes me so proud to have programmed the TDC dialog :woot:).

My opinion is that all that computing power the current video cards have doesn't help developers in creating better (and more fun) games. Most of my favorite games used to run in 320*240 resolution. That is why the consoles are the future of great games, because the hardware is stuck in time and the only way to get your game noticed is to make it fun to play instead of using the extra computing power of the latest video card.

Just so I have a more complete picture, how do you compare SH5 today with SH3 and SH4 at their respective launch dates?

CCIP
03-04-10, 01:04 PM
Personally, I think a lot of things about SH5's release are uncannily similar to SH3 on release. Even some of the bugs (like problems with nvidia or crew management having to be practically disabled to make long-term play possible) are of a very similar nature. It might even be in a somewhat better state than SH3.

The real problem is that SH3 was a revolutionary game when it came out, was loads better than its predecessor just by concept design (dynamic campaign, 3D interior, etc. etc.), and had really very little to compare with. SH5 on the other hand comes on the footsteps of SH3 and 4 which were fixed up and refined, and is really an evolutionary step rather than a truly revolutionary subsim. So I think it was both expected to be more polished, and to compare more favourably with its predecessors in terms of some features.

Sailor Steve
03-04-10, 01:17 PM
So I think it was both expected to be more polished, and to compare more favourably with its predecessors in terms of some features.
That was the real complaint about SH4: Not that it had problems, but that it retained problems from SH3 and broke some things that were alright before.

Still, I like it and feel comfortable in feeling I will like this one.:sunny:

Kresge
03-04-10, 01:23 PM
Thanks! I've been sifting all the garbage on the forum for some real info about how well (or not so well) the game is put together. Good job!

ParaB
03-04-10, 01:31 PM
Well said, ParaB, it's so true what you said Thanks, appreciated.

(and it makes me so proud to have programmed the TDC dialog :woot:)

Really? Nice, as I've said I really like this new version better. :)

Just so I have a more complete picture, how do you compare SH5 today with SH3 and SH4 at their respective launch dates?

When Sh3 was released it was kinda special since it marked a new beginning of the series. Everyone was happy that the "dynamic campaign" had finally made it into Silent Hunter, grafics were great, controls were rather standard and worked well (for the most part, I still remember problems with self-closing tube doors and a few other things) and I don't remember too many serious bugs. I do remember that there were a few problems with my grafics card (persicope/uzo view) initially but they got fixed eventually. And of course the whole gameworld was much more sterile than later in Sh4 and now SH5. Harbours were mostly empty, few friendly traffic, etc... All in all though SH3 was released IMO in a decent state.

With SH4 I had MUCH more problems. Besides a number of technical issues (low FPS, CTDs) I encountered a rather large number of bugs and problems that actually turned me off the game for some time, until patches (and especially mods) improved on that. SH4 IMO was launched in a much worse state than SH3.

I have so far no technical problems with SH5 at all, which is nice, but the gameplay problems/bugs/missing features I've encountered so far are even worse than in SH4, by a large margin.

MaciejK
03-04-10, 01:33 PM
Thank you for your review..I'm sure, I'll buy SH5 later :x

That is what I thought after reading the review. Fingers crossed for the devs and modders.

Gotta wait, it seems.

Sailor Steve
03-04-10, 01:33 PM
Everyone was happy that the "dynamic campaign" had finally made it into Silent Hunter,
Actually SH1 had the identical campaign. Better, actually, than AOTD's, since you could start from any month of the war.

ParaB
03-04-10, 01:38 PM
Actually SH1 had the identical campaign. Better, actually, than AOTD's, since you could start from any month of the war.

Ah, you're right. I blame it on old age. And Whiskey.

:yep:

The General
03-04-10, 02:15 PM
Well, there's no point me writing a review, this one mirrors my thoughts almost exactly :up:

I would like the Devs to use this review as a check-list of what we need in any forthcoming Patches. Can we send it to them (from all of us at Subsim :) )or would that be too cheeky?

JScones
03-05-10, 01:55 AM
Nice informative review, thanks. :up:

COWBOY10
03-05-10, 04:24 AM
Well, there's no point me writing a review, this one mirrors my thoughts almost exactly :up:

I would like the Devs to use this review as a check-list of what we need in any forthcoming Patches. Can we send it to them (from all of us at Subsim :) )or would that be too cheeky?

Naarrr, Hey we have nothing to lose right, Hopefully this is a thread Dan is watching, Hey maybe he will print it off and take it to work with him, Its a great well thought out review, that hits everything on the head. He certainly has stated everything im disappointed about, Well apart from lack of Gramaphone, I miss the tipperary song ;)

Great Job.

Fritz Fraghof
03-05-10, 06:21 AM
Nice review. Thanks.