What combo of skills for officers

[RConch]

I am always looking for an edge in this simulation.
I set up my officers this way:
"Outside" officers are watchmen, machinist, and flak\gunner as the three skills.
"Inside" officers are helm, torpedo, repair as the three skills.
What other combos do you guys use if any?

[Paul Riley]

I tend to use this setup.

1st Watch Officer - Watch + Flak Gunner + Medic

Chief Engineer - Machinist + Helmsman + Repair (even though the helmsman skill is minimal !)

Navigator - Helmsman + Machinist (helps with the Chief's jobs when Chief is away doing repairs) 3rd space free for whatever I see fit at the time.

Torpedo Officer - Torpedoman + deck gun + FREE SLOT

*When the space is available I will also recruit a 5th officer who shall act as a dedicated engine officer,who works in either the diesel or electrics compartment.He will have skills as Machinist + Repair + FREE SLOT *

NOTE - My setup can change at any time depending on my immediate situation and current priorities.

[RConch]

I use a PO for the medic and also the leader of my gun crew.
Is there any increased value in an officer as a medic?

[Paul Riley]

Interesting point.I asked someone the same thing ages ago about the helmsman skill,because I used to appoint the WO in the control room as a helmsman (I wanted to max out the helmsmen available to try to decrease dive times when under air attack!),but was later told that the extra skills in helmsman are not taken into account,therefore rendered useless.He would probably be better suited as a medic or torpedoman in that case.
Stick around,someone will clarify this for you.

[Jimbuna]

I use a PO for the medic and also the leader of my gun crew.
Is there any increased value in an officer as a medic?

many debates have ensued regarding the usefulness of having a medic at all considering the crew are killed far more often than simply wounded/injured.

There are supporters to both positive and negative medic attributes.

Personally I don't believe there is any benefit in carrying a medic, similarly a helmsman.

[maillemaker]

I thought medics helped with crew fatigue in the compartment where they are?

[Snestorm]

I thought medics helped with crew fatigue in the compartment where they are?

Sorry.
He does not help the crew sleep "more productively".

[Paul Riley]

I play at 92% realism I think,just have map contacts on,and also have 'no fatigue' enabled in Commander,I personally hate micromanaging crew shift patterns all the time,distracts me from more important events that may be happening ;)
Cant imagine this would be seen as cheating?

Shame about the helmsman skills,I would have thought having say,the chief,the guy on the pumps,and maybe an officer in the engine room possessing helmsman skill improving dive times,reaction times in emergencies,levelling off underwater etc .In my opinion it would adequately reflect their skill and knowledge of all the UBoat's systems improving its performance :nope:

Later on in the war as air attacks become lethal I decided it would be prudent to give the watch officer 'medic' skills as in previous patrols I have had some of the watch crew either severely injured or even killed.Would this protect the watch somewhat for a time,as I scrambled to get them below?by being able to stem heavy bleeding as panic breaks out? "here,stick this towel to his stomach!!,his guts are hanging out!"

[frau kaleun]

The only thing I remember hearing that the medic was good for, was if you have a wounded man and then put the medic in the same compartment with him (I assume bow or stern quarters would be best), he is more likely to recover and/or recover more quickly and/or get back up to a higher "Health" status than he would have without "medical attention."

Since I've never had wounded crew during a patrol I've never been able to see if it makes any difference having a medic sit with them in their quarters to recuperate.

If I have a medic, he's a PO, and I prefer to have medic as his primary qualification, if he's otherwise qualified then it's only in something I'm already covered for by other crewmembers and the medic has it as a backup in case those guys are lost/unavailable.

I wouldn't have a WO who doubled as my medic, if I do have wounded I wouldn't want to have to send a WO to their quarters until they get better, lol. He can't be nursing wounded crew and function as a WO as well.

Edit: And no I certainly wouldn't consider using the No Fatigue model as cheating, in fact IMO it's completely unrealistic to expect a commanding officer to be personally responsible for seeing to crew "shift changes," that's just ridiculous. Ideally you'd be able to configure your crew into the necessary watches and then have them rotate on their own unless you specifically made a change to something during the patrol for whatever reason. THAT would be realistic. Unfortunately SH3 doesn't work that way, so the "No Fatigue" model removes it as an issue entirely.

[Jimbuna]

I thought medics helped with crew fatigue in the compartment where they are?

As already stated by Snestorm...I'm afraid not.

[Dissaray]

Personaly I like to have my chief of the watch have watch, deck gun and flack gun specialties. This gives a very good performance on all aspects on deck. Other than that I don't realy have many combinations. I generaly have one of my command room officers, useualy the navigator, as a repair specialist for those situations when every thing goes sixes and sevens on me.

[Paul Riley]

Good point frau,
I would like to enter the time of the shift patterns before the patrol and let them change shift automatically.But this is just the same as having no fatigue :rotfl2:

[HundertzehnGustav]

VII, 1939
Kaleun: helmsman, watch , radio
WO1: Watch, AAA
LI1: Mechanic, Engine
WO2: Watch
LI2: Mechanic

+4 torps
+4 engine
+2 Radio
+1 Gun
+1 Medic
+2 Mech

[frau kaleun]

WO1: Watch, AAA


AAA (http://www.aaaohio.com/)?

So if my batteries run down somewhere in the North Atlantic, can he come give me a jump?

:O:

[Paul Riley]

...naughty woman :o :arrgh!: :D

[KL-alfman]

...naughty woman :o :arrgh!: :D


:har:

http://p.gzhls.at/299737.jpg

[frau kaleun]

...naughty woman :o :arrgh!: :D

What? It's their new Emergency Waveside Assistance service. :O:

[Paul Riley]

yeah yeah :|\\

[Shiver me timbers]

As already stated by Snestorm...I'm afraid not.
Having been a lurker for more than a year, this is my first post. And while I’m still a pretty wet behind the ears (cough) submariner, I have learned enough to defer to Jimbuna’s expertise on all matters watery. However, this debate sent me scurrying off to retrieve this passage, which I had a vague recollection of, from the wonderful, lovingly produced, GWX manual.
From page 73 :"Crew Quarters: Ahhh, relaxation in the smell of damp... The crew recovers from fatigue here, but more slowly than in stock Silent Hunter III, though a medic in the compartment will increase the recovery rate. Being in the crew quarters will always reduce fatigue regardless of what else is happening in the U-boat‘s environment or inside the U-boat."
Not sure if this is correct, but thought it might prove interesting.
Good hunting all!

[frau kaleun]

OMG, someone actually RTFM! :O:

Welcome aboard, Shiver!

[TarJak]

As already stated by Snestorm...I'm afraid not.
They will certainly help if you have wounded. Put a medic in the compartment with someone wounded and as long as they are not too far gone they will recover over time. Dunno about fatigue, I play with it off. I'm not a nursemaid and the PO's should be doing that job anyway.

Wounds and fatigue are separate values for each crewman.

[Paul Riley]

Dunno about fatigue, I play with it off. I'm not a nursemaid and the PO's should be doing that job anyway.


Amen to that.

[Shiver me timbers]

OMG, someone actually RTFM! :O:

Welcome aboard, Shiver!

Cheers Fra! Now don't be too alarmed by my having RTFM - I don't make a habit of it!!! I'm a man afterall so it's against my nature. Just that one was such a great piece of work and really puts the drivel most companies produce to shame.

[Jimbuna]

many debates have ensued regarding the usefulness of having a medic at all considering the crew are killed far more often than simply wounded/injured.

There are supporters to both positive and negative medic attributes.

Personally I don't believe there is any benefit in carrying a medic, similarly a helmsman.


I'll simply refer back to my original post....and I've certainly never witnessed anyone recovering mid patrol.

Might happen, might not :hmmm:

Welcome aboard Shiver me timbers http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/welcome.gif

[kk20]

They do recover mid patrol. Had 2 on my last patrol - the watch officer and a sailor. Both recovered from 25% to full endurance and the "bandage" icon disappeared. No wound badges were offered as medals. I have a PO medic.

GWX3.0

[Sailor Steve]

N

E

C

R

O

!

:damn:

[Missing Name]

I have a Watch Officer with Watch, FlaK and Deck Gun skills. That way, he can stay on deck and boost all three stations.

The navigator can be a helmsman and medic.

My weapon officer can be a helmsman and torpedoman.

The chief engineer can be a helmsman and mechanic.

One officer is a mechanic and repairman. Comes in handy.

3 radio/sonarmen, so that there is always at least one position filled at all times.
4 torpedomen.
4 mechanics.
1 repairman.
2 FlaK.
1 deckgunner.
1 watch.

And regular sailors.

I'm officer heavy, but it works.

[desirableroasted]

I have a Watch Officer with Watch, FlaK and Deck Gun skills. That way, he can stay on deck and boost all three stations.

The navigator can be a helmsman and medic.

My weapon officer can be a helmsman and torpedoman.

The chief engineer can be a helmsman and mechanic.

One officer is a mechanic and repairman. Comes in handy.


The helmsman qualification doesn't work, so you gain nothing by using it. For "eye-candy/realism", giving the qualification to your Chief of the Boat (senior petty officer) is a nice touch perhaps, but my COB is always a watchman (though stationed in the control space).

I divide my officers into Line and Engineering.

The three line officers draw from the Watch, Deck, Flak, Torpedo, Repair qualification pool.

The two engineering officers draw from the Engineering, Torpedo and Repair pool.

How many qualifications each gets (1 to 3) depends on rank and number of patrols. The third qualification is always Repair, if they have not gotten it already.

[Obltn Strand]

After studying type VII crew rosters I try to make them as realistic as possible within silent hunter III limitations.

LI: Oberleutnant with repair, machinist and helmsman.
IWO: Oberleutnant/leutnant with watchman, torpedoman and if promoted helmsman
IIWO: Oberleutnant/leutnant with watchman, gunner and if promoted flak gunner
Obersteuermann/IIIWO: Oberfähnrich with helmsman

3 POs with machinist
3 POs with repair = engine room POs

1 PO with radioman
1 PO with medic = radio POs

2 POs with helmsman = controlroom mechanics

3 POs with watchman = sailing crew POs

1 PO with torpedoman

I also haul 1 or two nonspecialist POs as officer trainees and sometimes extra officers as LI in training or watchofficer in training.

[U777]

I carry a medic, I imagine that crews get injured by accident and someone needs to pass out the medical alcohol soaked cotton balls in leu of a shower.

[Mittelwaechter]

Running the no fatigue mod I prefer to play with only 2/3 of the crew aboard. 1/3 is on duty, 1/3 is sleeping (and missing aboard), 1/3 is playing cards.

3 of 4 Officers

LI/OLt= Helm - Repair - Medic
1 WO/Lt = Watch and Flak
2 WO/Lt = Torpedo and Deckgun
(Lt can have 2 and OLt can have 3 qualifications)

My NAV stays OFhr = Helm

10 of 16 PO

1 Watch
2 Radio (for best hydophone performance)
1 Flak
1 Deckgun (later 2nd Flak)
1 Machinist
2 Repair
2 Torpedo

20 of 30 Crew

3 Watch
3 Helm
6 Machinist
7 Torpedo
1 Cook ;)

I'm in trouble whenever SH3Cmdr shifts a few guys around.
I don't have to nanny my crew but I have to order some people around to get the tubes reloaded.

[Draka]

For what it is worth:

From "Wolf-Pack - The Story of the Uboat in WWII" by Gordon Williamson, pp. 179-180 we have the following optimized crew roster:

"Commander Kapitänleutnant, usually referred to as 'Herr Kaleu'.
There were a few Korvettenkapitän-ranked commanders
and a number of commanders with the rank of
Oberleutnant zur See, particularly later in the war.
First Officer Typically, an Oberleutnant zur See (or Leutnant zur See
on boats where the commander was an Oberleutnant).
The First Watch Officer was usually referred to as the
IWO.
Second Officer Usually a Leutnant zur See and referred to as the
'Zweiter Wach Offizier'.
U-BOAT CREWS
179
Engineering Officer Generally a Leutnant or Oberleutnant zur See, his title
was 'Leitender Ingenieur' or Leading Engineer and he
was normally referred to as the 'LF.
Third Watch Officer This post was held by a warrant officer grade, typically
the Obersteuermann or Navigator.
Fourth Watch Officer This was a non-commissioned post often held by the
Oberbootsmaat or bosun.
The remainder of the crew would be made up approximately as follows (total
crew numbers could vary from boat to boat):
Stabsobermaschinist Chief Warrant Officer (1) Engine Room
Obermaschinist Senior Warrant Officer (2) Engine Room
Maschinenobermaat Chief Petty Officer (2) Engine Room
Maschinenmaat Petty Officer (5) Engine Room
Maschinenobergefreiter Leading Seaman (11) Engine Room
Maschinengefreiter Able Seaman (5) Engine Room
Funkobermaat Chief Petty Officer (3) Radio Operator
Funkobergefreiter Leading Seaman (1) Radio Operator
Funkgefreiter Able Seaman (2) Radio Operator
Oberbootsmann Senior Warrant Officer (2)
Bootsmann Warrant Officer (1)
Matrosenobergefreiter Leading Seaman (7)
Matrosengefreiter Able Seaman (3)
Obermechaniker Senior Warrant Officer (1) Torpedo Room
Mechanikermaat Petty Officer (2) Torpedo Room
Mechanikerobergefreiter Leading Seaman (1) Torpedo Room
Mechanikergefreiter Able Seaman (1) Torpedo Room
Sanitätsmaat Petty Officer (1) Medical Orderly"

Notice the preponderance of engine-room types - and the "mechaniker" torpedomen were mechanics trained in the maintenance of them - the "matrosen" were the ones who would be loading/unloading, etc - and any other grunt work.

Also, as to the original topic - I also have Line and Engineer Officers, with the latter concentrating on Mechanic and Repair skills, while the Line types are Helmsman, Watch Officer, and combat skills as needed. Because of the way Ubi made the Nav function an Officer one instead of a PO, I have one of the Officers fill in when using those functions - but don't have one permanently assigned as such.

Analysis of actual rosters of boats when lost (from http://www.ubootwaffe.net/ mostly) verifies the above; altho most boats lacked many of the slots shown, the emphasis on engineering and relative "undermanning" of the torpedo rooms as we tend to think of them are accurate.

[Draka]

This was also discussed in another thread, and on page 3 I posted the crew of U45 when lost in SH3 crew_config format:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=173936&page=3&highlight=crew+U45

[Wulfgar44]

I read in the GWX manual that medics do effect the fatigue recovery. Whether true or not I don't know. As for turning off FATIGUE,... I do believe it changes the Sim. I mean when U leave port evryone is fresh, as in RL. Over the course of the Patrol fatigue sets in. In the Sim my men do not recover as fast later in the patrol. To me this adds to it when running the engines, loading eels, or any task. I believe there were times when Capt.'s had to micro manage. Maybe not all the time but the boats were small. It really doesn't bother me. I have men slowly moving up in rank that can carry the load for others. It's nice to see.

[WolfyBrandon]

If you are still looking for advice on qualifications I will give you my own for whatever its worth. I know many people may like to play differently so take whatever I say and adjust accordingly to how you like to play. This setup has served me well on a VIIB for my play style, it has a heavy emphasis on surviving.

What is the most important thing to you on your Uboat? For me personally, its making sure me and my crew return home. I cannot stress enough how important the Repair qualification is especially later in the war, always think ahead. Consider the worse case scenario, what happens when a DC or Mine goes off and you have heavy damage, broken machinery, heavy flooding, possibly multiple crew members dead (maybe one of them was a repair guy), and the ship is sinking fast when you are already at 100+ meters down? oh and maybe that destroyer or one of his friends is coming back around for another DC run at you. It may be overkill in some peoples opinion, but I like to give every main officer the repair qualification as one of his three qualifications, as well as 3 petty officers with the repair qualification. Within my game I have crew fatigue still enabled (a bit toned down though) and I like having the ability when I have damage to be able to throw any of the main officers into the repair station to have him greatly boost its performance. A main officer with the repair qualification along side 3 petty officers with repair will max out the repair performance bar! So there is your repair team for dire situations, and if needed, you can even add other random crew to it.

The next thing on my personal list of importance is what the Uboat is meant to do, Sink Ships. The second qualification for all but 1 main officer is Torpedoman, as well as 4 petty officers with torpedoman qualification. This is nice because when submerged you can toss a main officer and 2 petty officers with the torpedo skill into both the bow and stern torpedo rooms along side other crew, which will really cut down the reloading time of torpedoes. Now what about that one officer that didn't get the torpedo skill? This officer, whom will become your watch officer, will get the Gunner as his secondary qualification, to help improve the performance of the Deck Gun for the times you sink ships with the deck gun. Just him alone, with no crew at the deck gun station will make its performance over half way maxed, and even though he has gunner qualification, he almost maxes out the flak gun station even with no crew at it hehe.

The last qualification for each main officer is a mixed bag to help clean up all of the rest of the stuff that might possibly be needed. Starting with the odd ball dude who already has Gunner, and along side the importance of sinking ships, you first need to find them, so he gets the Watchman qualification. As personal taste, I also like to have 2 petty officers with the Watchman qualification to make sure the ability to see ships is at a max at all times. You can have both or just one on the bridge at a time for the unfortunate case you take damage while on the surface and one of them gets killed you will have an extra. Also, if fatigue plays a roll in your game, you can remove the main officer from the bridge when needed or also to just protect him at times while the two petty officer watchman keep the performance of seeing ships at a max. A situation where I use one or two of the watchman petty officers on the bridge without the main officer would be when I am passing through straights, or in areas with a very likely chance of getting spotted by destroyers or aircraft. The next 3rd qualification for two main officers, (usually I pick depending on the officers voice), is Helm. I think its nice to have two main officers with Helm as 3rd qualification, so that you don't ever run into problems not being able to steer the ship. Having two lets you swap one for the other to let one rest in bunk so they won't get fatigued badly. The next 3rd qualification goes along side having Helm officers, and that is to have one main officer with the Machinist qualification who (if needed) can help run either of the engines in emergency situations. Also have 2 petty officers with the machinist qualification who you will normally keep running the engines. I usually keep one in bunk the other at the engine station along side 4-5 crew members to keep its performance reasonable. Once they get fatigued from long hours, you simply swap all of them out for the same type of crew who are in the stern bunk, and you just keep alternating them throughout your patrol to keep the engines running. The last officer's third qualification I like to set to Medic, as well as having 1 petty officer as medic. I do this because you will normally always have an officer who is in bunk and having the medic qualification helps out the other crew in bunk i believe, then you toss the petty officer with medic into the other bunk. Also if one of your crew gets injured instead of having him die, you can put them in bunk with both the main officer and petty officer with medic, which will hopefully save his life. So that's it for the main officers and most of your petty officers.

To fill out the rest of your petty officers, I like to have 2 Radioman to help with the Radio/Sonar stations. Next, I like to make 1 petty officer Gunner to man the Deck Gun who along side the main officer with gunner will make its performance over max then you have the two extra crew as well who man the gun. I like to put one as Flak to help defend against aircraft, but 99% of the time when I encounter an aircraft I crash dive because I would like to make it to the end of the war if possible. Messing with aircraft is very risky and could end up getting many of your men if not all of them including you killed. The Flak guy is again for emergency situations when I may have low battery or oxygen, or possibly flooding where I have to blow ballast and am required to be on the surface and fight it out, aircraft or not.

These qualifications are not mentioned in order, it was a long process to get to this setup. I added what I needed at the time and ended up with this. Of course, this setup is not bulletproof and can have problems just like any setup. A really bad DC can end your career even with the best crew. In the end It is up to you as captain to make the decisions to keep your boat and its crew both operational and alive.

Hope this may have helped you in deciding what qualifications you decide to pick for your crew... :salute:

WolfyBrandon

[Tessa]

I read in the GWX manual that medics do effect the fatigue recovery. Whether true or not I don't know. As for turning off FATIGUE,... I do believe it changes the Sim. I mean when U leave port evryone is fresh, as in RL. Over the course of the Patrol fatigue sets in. In the Sim my men do not recover as fast later in the patrol. To me this adds to it when running the engines, loading eels, or any task. I believe there were times when Capt.'s had to micro manage. Maybe not all the time but the boats were small. It really doesn't bother me. I have men slowly moving up in rank that can carry the load for others. It's nice to see.

Have never seen a medic (PO or Officer) descrease fatigue. Having had a few wounded people that didn't die when a medic is in the same compartment he does recover health faster. While the healing process is very slow, the medic just makes is slow. For realism's sake there was always a medic on board a u-boat, 1 of my PO will always be a medic despite the 1 in a 1000 chance that I will be in a situation where he could be of any use.

2 of my officers will have the repair skill (the CE and Machinist) and 4 other PO's with it. I put a repairman in both torpedo rooms, the engine room, and one in one of the crew spaces - he's the main guy that I put into the place for repairs.

Helmsman is another skill that I believe has been prove to show no positive gains in any manner; even so I always have 2 people with the skill, the navigator and ce; again for realism's sake. With 5 officers I never find that I'm ever short on skills after a few patrols and get some experienced officers.

[JScones]

Just FYI, SH3Cmdr's "Realistic Crew" option provides a crew complement that is as close to historically accurate as SH3 constraints will allow. It is based on extensive research of actual u-boat crews.

Combine it with the "randomise crew details" option, which provides crew with history (rather than a boat full of all noobs), and you have what is arguably the most realistic crew config that you can have in SH3 (without resorting to replicating actual u-boat crew lists).

[Raptor]

SH3 utterly stinks at crew modelling.

First off, I changed the basic.cfg file to totally eliminate crew fatique. As others have said, the Kapitan has better thing to do than put people to bed and wake them up again. Mütti did not join the Kreigsmarine.

My biggest complaint concerns crew qualifications. Over time, EVERY crewman had to become qualified in at least their own specialty. Accordingly, I modified the basic.cfg file for each SUBMARINE type by increasing the maximum number of petty officers to equal the total enlisted crew complement of each boat type. The minimum number of CREW was also reduced to zero. Max officers was increased to 7 so I can carry a qualified medical officer (on a type IXD2) and unqualified officer cadets, mechanic qualified LI in training, etc. My boats now carry only officers and warrent officers. Over the course of many patrols, I can qualify everyone aboard.

My usual crew configuration for a type VII:

Watch Officer - Watchman, gunner, flak gunner
LI - machinist, repair, torpedo
Navigator - helmsman, repair, watchman (I count him 1 of the 4 warrent officers historically carried)
Weapons officer - Torpedo, repair, flak gunner

3 CSWO (warrent officers): 1@ torpedo, mechanic, watchman/bosun.

12 SWO: (petty officers) 1 radio, 1 gunner, 1 flak gunner, 2 mechanic, 4 torpedo, 2 repair, 1 medic


24 WO: (enlsited crew): 3 gunners, 4 flak gunners, 8 repair, 5 torpedo, 2 mechanic, 2 watchman


That's 43 men + me as kapitan = 44.


I agree with the earlier poster - you can never have too many repairmen, especially later in the war. By having 2 in each compartment except radio, plus all officers repair-qualified as well, I don't need a dedicated repair crew.

Gunners are only useaful until late 1941, when merchants start shooting back - often with devastating results requiring the medic or burial at sea. Flak gunners don't become important until early 1941 - unless you like patrolling the North or St George's Channels. I will start out with 1 gunner, slowly increase that to 4, and then dismiss 2 of them, replacing them with up to 5 flak gunners. Flak gunners have a high mortality rate.




For a type IX, I'll add 13 enlisted men to bring total crew to 57;

5 SWOs : 1 radio, 1 repair, 1 mechanic, 1 torpedo, 1 watchman

8 WOs : 3 torpedo, 2 mechanic, 2 repair, 1 flak gunner

I may also add a Medical officer with no other qualification but Medic