Im at a loss for words

[GoldenRivet]

INTRODUCTION TO THE GAME / TRAINING MISSION

Great introduction to the game.

however the "training mission" if that is what you dare call it is FAR too arcade like. i seriously felt like i was playing this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8NImpI_lBU), only with ships.

let me summarize the opening scene

"Hey you.. wake up.. captain wants to see you on the bridge."

you go to the bridge

"well... looks like we are finally at war, oh well."

"SHIP SPOTTED! right there... holy sh*t i swear it is right there it just appeared out of nowhere... i could break wind on it from here it is so close!"

"Quick... get to the periscope and sink at least 2 of them"

done!

"congrats... you are now a U-boat commander W00+!"

the end :rock:

The game really needs a whole series of playable training missions.

the interface, options, crew interactions, skill sets etc are FAR too complicated for even the EXPERT SUBSIMMER to pickup quickly thus the need for about a dozen training missions.

because there is no printed manual, there is no ability to read the damned thing WHILE PLAYING as a reference. you have to write down any questions or curiosities you have then reference the included "manual" later on.

==========================================

CREW INTERACTION / RPG ELEMENTS

at first i thought "COOL!" i asked the 1WO about his family, and got a whole speech about his kids and wife etc. Awesome

I asked the radio guy about his brother aboard the bismark, the chief about his apparently ill wife and so on and so on.

about an hour later... about 2 hours later, about 3 hours later... NONE of these men's dialogue options ever changed. so... i have to ask... if it is always the same, whats the point.

the only unique thing i encountered during trying out dialogue was that EVENTUALLY the "pirate" started bitching aloud, in the middle of the command room about how the crew doesnt respect him and he wants me to do something about it.

ummmmm ok? i'll go have a talk with this dude about his wife... will that help?

As far as mission briefings... there is a naval officer who's sole job in life is to stand in the u-boat pen, next to your boat and wait for you to be ready for a mission. when you interact with him he tells you to "come in" and you fade out to a map screen.

=========================================

WATCH CREW

I order the crew to man the deck gun... i assume this would mean ATTACK A SHIP... but there is no obvious way to make them do this.

furthermore, once they are on the deck gun, there is no known way to get them off of it.:06: they just stay put through the whole campaign if i dont submerge.

same goes for the flak gun.

The watch crew - dare i call them that - is a disgrace. They are blind, deaf, and apparently hallucinating.

The watch crew is on a continuous loop of pointing at random, non-existent objects that apparently only they can see in their hallucinogenic world.

however, i sailed to within 800 meters of a large british merchant ship... not one watch crew ever called it out or even hinted to the fact that we were about to collide with the enemy. they just sat there... in there LSD induced stupidity pointing at the invisible flying unicorn people.

======================================

ENEMY AI

on more than one occasion I closed to within pissing distance of a DD which was apparently either abandoned... or the entire crew was experimenting with the same hallucinogenic drugs that my crew was by now completely stoned out of their skulls with.

because the enemy DD didnt even turn its guns, maneuver, shake a fist... react AT ALL. For the love of God at least fart in my general direction!!!

=======================================

CREW CAPABILITY / SKILLS / SPECIAL POWERS WHATEVER

Im not sold on this crew ability thing... how do you use the abilities? when do you use them? why have them anyhow?

i received a contact report of a convoy (you dont so much receive them as they appear on the map so you have to watch for it) and set up and intercept.

told the torpedo man "Warm up the weapons"

"CANNOT COMPLY"

ummmmmm... ok? perhaps you didnt understand me... we are about to go shoot these torpedoes at the enemy stop standing there playing pocket pool and get the gadamned weapons ready. :stare:

same situation with the "sound guy" i select "Reveal hidden enemies" when trying to make sound contact with a convoy that must surely be nearby... "I CANT DO THIS RIGHT NOW"

Ummmmmm ok:06: you want me to come back in 10 minutes? cause we can totally put the war on hold until you get your turds in a pile.

==================================

PLAYABILITY

If you have been following the silent hunter series from day one... prepare to get mind f*cked here... because everything you have known for the past 14 years is going to get turned on its head.

Interface, key strokes... the whole works... it has been completely - and i mean COMPLETELY overhauled... to the point that it is not even recognizable as a member of the silent hunter franchise.

the GUI leaves a LOT to be desired and provides the player with almost NO instantaneous access to important... nay... VITAL game information.

the "ahead slow" "ahead flank" "ahead standard" that is pretty much been the staple of the subsim franchise is GONE to be replaced with. "Extreme speed ahead"

wait?

extreme speed ahead?

he says... Extreme speed ahead.

ever heard that order given on a ship? I havn't... until now.

=======================================

THE GOOD STUFF

there are a few things i like in the game that i would have really loved to see expanded.

the role playing element... though new to a submarine simulation adds an interesting dynamic.

I understand that it would take 5 years to come up with enough dialogue for the characters to have something new to say every day or every few days... but we really need more than 5 weeks at sea asking "number two" about his family... or asking the radio guy about his brother.

=============================

SUMMARY

Silent hunter 5 was just released and is already standing at a fork in the road.

the road to the left... far less traveled...

the road to the right... trodden down... a beaten and familiar path to video games

If silent hunter 5 takes the road to the left - through heavy patching, mods etc (like always - thanks for nothing Ubi) it could go down in history as a trend setting masterpiece.

If SH5 takes the road to the right... it will fade into obscurity as a game that had a lot of neat concepts and ideas... but that ultimately failed.

[CCIP]

Great overview, I agree with much of what you've said. Ultimately, the clock is ticking on the developers to do something about the frustrating issues and turn this into what it should be.

[Capt.Warner]

I agree as well,this game isn't even nearly finished.

[Herr Graf]

Great review and could not agree more.

[Flopper]

Loss for words? :haha:

I've been sitting on the fence, and actually had started looking at machines today contemplating a purchase. After reading this, I think I'll relax for a while longer and see what develops, as the only reason I'd consider getting a new computer at this point would be for SH5.

Thanks a lot for the info. Loss for words, he says! :rotfl2:

[Sunfighter]

Golden, about the crew abilities, They will say they wont/cant do them but they still do them anyways. At least my guys do. As long as you have those world of warcraft style buffs showing. The sonar guys skill is very uh..strong....especially if you have map updates enabled...you can basically track everything nearby for a VERY long time as if you had your scope up down to watching them manouver on the map.

[Agustus]

You pretty much nailed it, Golden. In fact, I think you were generous.

I'm almost beginning to wonder whether they deliberately released this early - WAY too early - in order to test the "always on" DRM before their golden child Prince of Persia was released with the same DRM.

Ubisoft used to be known for its quality games. What we're experiencing here is ridiculous.

[Gato76]

Don't forget the TDC,instead of dials now we have this links u suppose to click on then in the same order all over and over and over again,boring, btw where is the ship draft in the recognition manual ? :hmmm:

[GoldenRivet]

Speaking of recognition manual.

WHAT RECOGNITION MANUAL???

you have little pop ups that you scroll through.

doesnt even look like a book... no data on the ships, length, beam, draft, mast height.

NOTHING

[GoldenRivet]

I have to applaud the voice talent.

very nice job i think!:yeah:

and to the dev team... programming this thing couldnt have been a simple task... even to get it to its current state.

i think you guys really needed about another year:yep:

[Steeltrap]

Golden, that was classic. Had me laughing at a few points.

Makes me feel like I'm not missing anything at all through maintaining my DRM stance.

Can't say I'm surprised, either. Companies push out all sorts of crap because they know the gameplaying public will purchase them like a bunch of Pavlovian crack addicts. SH is no exception. Hell, they even put a turd on the plate they served and called it OSP, and still people lap it up.

We deserve every dreadful, buggy, poorly thought out, shabbily coded and overpriced piece of sheisse we get because we continue to consume them every single time. It's like we're Charlie Brown and developers/publishers are Lucy.

"C'mon, THIS time you can kick a goal - we PROMISE we'll deliver the ball right where you want it"

Of course, poor old Charlie ends up on his arse every time.

*sigh*

Bring back MicroProse etc etc, the devs/publishers who couldn't rely on patches so had to release their games in a fit state, and when machines didn't have the god-like graphics of today that are used as a smokescreen to hide how poorly finished the games behind them are.

Rant over....:D

[Turbografx]

We deserve every dreadful, buggy, poorly thought out, shabbily coded and overpriced piece of sheisse we get because we continue to consume them every single time.

Bring back MicroProse etc etc, the devs/publishers who couldn't rely on patches so had to release their games in a fit state, and when machines didn't have the god-like graphics of today that are used as a smokescreen to hide how poorly finished the games behind them are.




Amen. I sure do miss me some of them who really cared about a quality product that THEY would be proud of and would play (SSI, Microprose, Dyanmix, Troika etc etc etc). Seems though that to stay in business you need to either:

A. Appeal to the common denominator.

B. Charge $60 plus for your product.

Of course today the trend is to combine both...

[Gato76]

Speaking of recognition manual.

WHAT RECOGNITION MANUAL???

you have little pop ups that you scroll through.

doesnt even look like a book... no data on the ships, length, beam, draft, mast height.

NOTHING
How are we suppose to use the torpedo magnetic settings if there is no way to know the ship draft ? maybe we get it as an upgrade after 1943 :down: this game is unfinish

[CCIP]

The draft shows on your depth dial for the torpedo after you lock and identify a target. Not exactly obvious...

[Gato76]

The draft shows on your depth dial for the torpedo after you lock and identify a target. Not exactly obvious...
Thanks, i totally miss that

[Alfred Keitzer]

Thanks for that great overview. On crew interaction, I had commented several weeks ago over at WaW that this was likely to be a flop --

" ... The interaction and experience of U-Boat life might be interesting at first, but I would think that it will get "old hat" very quickly being cooped up with the same people, hearing the same stories, day after day. UbiSoft may very well have spent their time simulating the boring part of U-Boat life -- the part we like to zip through at 256x time compression."


By the way, "Extreme speed ahead" -- is that anything like "Helmsman, take us to plad" from Spaceballs?

[Mad_Mark]

Extreme speed ahead only works if you raise your landing gear first!
Is there an upgrade in late in the game that the Nazi's secretly developed a flying Sub?
I missed that in my WWII history lessons.

[Laffertytig]

some of that review had me in stitches:D But all joking aside, some of the point you made are extremenly worrying, extreme speed ahead for eg. what were they thinking replacing full speed ahead with this new term? that one fore sure will be modded out though.

to be honest, it sounds like one of the dev team is a world of warcraft fanboy and had decided to infest SH5 with as much of its features as possible:down:

[GoldenRivet]

Extreme speed ahead only works if you raise your landing gear first!
Is there an upgrade in late in the game that the Nazi's secretly developed a flying Sub?
I missed that in my WWII history lessons.

there is actually a key command for "Gear up" and "gear down"

can anyone explain to me what the **** that means

[ichso]

Why do we need the possibility to talk with the crew about their families anyway ? That can hardly be done in a satisfying way. In typical RPGs you cross ways with other people only a couple of times and it may not be that obvious that each person has only a single story to tell. But the same 27 (?) guys in one place all the time ? That's when it gets obvious that they have not much to say.
I always thought that with RPG-element they only meant the combat related stuff. Like crew members actually walking up to stations they're gonna be using and so on. So it's "lets see what the devs will do with that feature in the future" and "lets see what the community does with it", I guess.

Ah yes, and don't complain about missing AI too much. We can now script anything we like !
[/sarcasm]

Thanks for the insights GR ;)

[thruster]

ichso wrote:Why do we need the possibility to talk with the crew about their families anyway ? That can hardly be done in a satisfying way.


the interaction with the crew shouldnt have been too difficult. heres why:
-your the captain, not their best buddy. they say "hello sir", "yes sir" and bitch about the food, pay and no leave behind your back. therefore its the ambient conversational noise amongst themselves that adds the atmosphere; not you talking to them. the level of that conversational ambient noise varies, loudest when on the surface, hushed when submerged and the odd cough and fart when under attack.
its what they do not what they say thats the key to this. its simple animations responding to battlestations, change of watch, going in and out of the hatch, damage repair, or playing cards or reading in their bunks etc etc. other than move aside for you or look at you nothing else is needed.

[Jail]

there is actually a key command for "Gear up" and "gear down"

can anyone explain to me what the **** that means

Gear up could it be a command for people to put on equipment for a spesific task, watch,gunner,repair or flak gunner ?
But I expect a person on duty to know what to bring and wear

Gear down off duty time ?

or
gear up = get a grip we are now attacking
gear down = danger over you can now relax

Jsut my toughts

[Kretschmer the IV]

Hi,

very very good @Golden. Thats the point!

Yesterday afternoon i bought this game. I was at work til 5 pm and could not wait to install.

Though i read that the german speech output of the sonar guy is bugged i decided to install it on german. UBI said they

fixed this "Sonar ain't saying ****" bug with the 1.1 update which was released yesterday.



1st Impressions

The DRM stuff went smoother than i thought. Starting SH5 i hear music and a black screen. OK i said, nothing new, decrease AA in the NVIDIA settings and it works again. OK. Restarting game.

Menu looks okay, nice addition with the bunker (but no AA in the background movie?).

Anyway, checking realism settings, starting campaign, wait... I can't change the realism settings??? then i thought they will be applied from the main options screen... Didnt.. (Changing the Gameplayconfig in the configfolder is doing the trick). Okay start campaign. Nice intro, very very low FPS?!? Got control, wanted to bridge, holy **** is this unsmooth.. Then i disabled the shadows, ok went smoother but still not fluid like it should. (had to put low textures on :( with Nvidia 8800GT)

Going to bridge, captain talking some nonsense. And then i laughed my ****** ass off. Contact sighted, holy **** the ship was 300 m infront... Pretty stupid UBI i mean, whats that about?!

Finishing mission, tender, buying upgrades, thats pretty cool. Besides... the ghost clickspots in the tender? The mousecursor turns to hand, when i roll over the wall? hmm...

Starting mission, checking the crew dialogues... Like mentioned => pretty stupid, allways the same 2 phrases.

Going on 40m depth, i see sonar contacts on the map, switching to command room. Watching the sonar guy, he aint reporting **** man. Only watching my direction, saying NOTHING. I was pretty pissed off. (With english Version reinstalled, i had no speech output att all ?!)

Attacking merchant, first torp hit. (Still can't familiarize with this TDC :( ). Merchant stops, surface to sink with deck gun. Then i searched for the "aim for waterline".. No chance. NOT ONE OPTION available for the deckgun? WTF? Locking the merc with binoculars hitting space, the gun attacks. Lousy animated, the OP MONSUN has better animated deck gun crew :(
Only two guys, no officer with binocular nor a reloading guy => crappy.

I wont mention the watchcrew either. Like said, 10 seconds animationloop repeating and repeating without binoculars WTF!?

Marching along the coast, nice graphics, watchcrew says, "Smoke on horizon!". I am running to the bridge, watching along, merchant about 1500 on starboard... LOL horizon?

After sinking, marching... Several plane contacts, they flew right over me, no attack? 1. WO, man the FLAK GUN... MANNING THE FLAK GUN... nothing happens. Waited a minute or so, still nothing happend. Again, nothing! WTF?
ALSO NO *****G options for the flak gun? WTF?

Decided to sneak in harbour. Sank a freighter, got attacked by 4 destroyers. That was ok, still AI ain't that bad like the plane AI...
They rammed me several times (very shallow water). Got heavy flooding. 100% flooding in central. The waterlevel in the central did not went over the first edge of the bulkhead, so the devs didnt needed to develop a "water is breaching to neighbor compartment"-simulation.. Clever...
The Animation of my crew.. nothing.. No fear nothing. in the quarters they are reading books lol..
Damage management sucks. Only 4 modules per section? Whats that? SH3 or 4 had dozens of modules which could be damaged.

Doing manual course corrections, ok.. Do it 1 degree or full rudder thats odd too... Going back to course? how?
On map you got a popup which says; Doubleclick for going back to course => no function.

There is so much more which is just crappy developed, i should make a list. :(

UBISOFT what the hell have you done with this? I mean, it's pretty embarassing.

Not only that it's buggy (which i could understand), you changed the whole damn SH series. Removed critical gameplay contents which were in SH3 and SH4. For what? I mean it was already developed, you had only to take it and implement it.

I cant understand why this is happening. Making the game so ohfu**ingmoddable just to escape the deadly critics? Hoping the community will fix it anyway. Thats pretty sad!

The day after i got SH5, i just dont want to play this game today after work. Im so dissappointed i can't tell you :(

[h.sie]

glad that I did not purchase sh5. i have seen a very, very realistic great simulator. was not for submarine but for tanks and used for the education of soldiers.

price: more than 1 million euros, if I remember correct.

maybe for 42 euros we cannot expect more than crap?

[jwilliams]

maybe for 42 euros we cannot expect more than crap?

LOL

But all they really had to do was add new graphics and 1st person camera to Silent Hunter 3.
Improve the AI and Physics.
and add alittle more content (eg more ships and planes etc.).

I would've been very happy if thats what they had done....

[Danevang]

Have you played after the patch?

INTRODUCTION TO THE GAME / TRAINING MISSION

Great introduction to the game.

however the "training mission" if that is what you dare call it is FAR too arcade like. i seriously felt like i was playing this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8NImpI_lBU), only with ships.

let me summarize the opening scene

"Hey you.. wake up.. captain wants to see you on the bridge."

you go to the bridge

"well... looks like we are finally at war, oh well."

"SHIP SPOTTED! right there... holy sh*t i swear it is right there it just appeared out of nowhere... i could break wind on it from here it is so close!"

"Quick... get to the periscope and sink at least 2 of them"

done!

"congrats... you are now a U-boat commander W00+!"

the end :rock:

The game really needs a whole series of playable training missions.

the interface, options, crew interactions, skill sets etc are FAR too complicated for even the EXPERT SUBSIMMER to pickup quickly thus the need for about a dozen training missions.

because there is no printed manual, there is no ability to read the damned thing WHILE PLAYING as a reference. you have to write down any questions or curiosities you have then reference the included "manual" later on.

The training isn't very good, I agree, but to be fair, it never was in the previous games either.



CREW INTERACTION / RPG ELEMENTS

at first i thought "COOL!" i asked the 1WO about his family, and got a whole speech about his kids and wife etc. Awesome

I asked the radio guy about his brother aboard the bismark, the chief about his apparently ill wife and so on and so on.

about an hour later... about 2 hours later, about 3 hours later... NONE of these men's dialogue options ever changed. so... i have to ask... if it is always the same, whats the point.

the only unique thing i encountered during trying out dialogue was that EVENTUALLY the "pirate" started bitching aloud, in the middle of the command room about how the crew doesnt respect him and he wants me to do something about it.

ummmmm ok? i'll go have a talk with this dude about his wife... will that help?

As far as mission briefings... there is a naval officer who's sole job in life is to stand in the u-boat pen, next to your boat and wait for you to be ready for a mission. when you interact with him he tells you to "come in" and you fade out to a map screen.


The conversation needs more variety, I agree, but the eye patch guy complaining will lead to more conversation with other crewmates, you'll have decisions to answer various things to them etc.

The conversations you've already have just shouldn't be available again, that's all they should change.

The mission guy shows you which missions you can undertake now, at this time in the war, i.e. attack british coastal shipping, attack the blockade of Germany etc. I find it quite nice, compared to SH 3 & 4, you have much more control over which missions you get, and they actually have an impact on how the game proceeds.


WATCH CREW

I order the crew to man the deck gun... i assume this would mean ATTACK A SHIP... but there is no obvious way to make them do this.

furthermore, once they are on the deck gun, there is no known way to get them off of it.:06: they just stay put through the whole campaign if i dont submerge.

same goes for the flak gun.

The watch crew - dare i call them that - is a disgrace. They are blind, deaf, and apparently hallucinating.

The watch crew is on a continuous loop of pointing at random, non-existent objects that apparently only they can see in their hallucinogenic world.

however, i sailed to within 800 meters of a large british merchant ship... not one watch crew ever called it out or even hinted to the fact that we were about to collide with the enemy. they just sat there... in there LSD induced stupidity pointing at the invisible flying unicorn people.


The watch crew constantly pointing annoys me too...but...how long have you been playing the game, and is it patched to 1.1.5, or whatever?

I get lots of contancts spotted, hydrophone contacts etc.

The deck gun works as in the other games, you make the crew man the gun, and select the target through your binoculars. I've had my guncrew destroy several merchants in this way. Also, some people have been complaining that there are no deckgun sights/binoculars. There's a button for that in the upper left corner. :DL


ENEMY AI

on more than one occasion I closed to within pissing distance of a DD which was apparently either abandoned... or the entire crew was experimenting with the same hallucinogenic drugs that my crew was by now completely stoned out of their skulls with.

because the enemy DD didnt even turn its guns, maneuver, shake a fist... react AT ALL. For the love of God at least fart in my general direction!!!


I've been pinged, shot at and depthcharged by any DD I got within seeing/hearing/sonar range. Hell, I even got pounded by a huge British battleship north of Scapa Flow (I wanted to see how much damage I could do with the deckgun...not much, seems I was slightly out gunned) :DL Is your game patched?



CREW CAPABILITY / SKILLS / SPECIAL POWERS WHATEVER

Im not sold on this crew ability thing... how do you use the abilities? when do you use them? why have them anyhow?

i received a contact report of a convoy (you dont so much receive them as they appear on the map so you have to watch for it) and set up and intercept.

told the torpedo man "Warm up the weapons"

"CANNOT COMPLY"

ummmmmm... ok? perhaps you didnt understand me... we are about to go shoot these torpedoes at the enemy stop standing there playing pocket pool and get the gadamned weapons ready. :stare:

same situation with the "sound guy" i select "Reveal hidden enemies" when trying to make sound contact with a convoy that must surely be nearby... "I CANT DO THIS RIGHT NOW"

Ummmmmm ok:06: you want me to come back in 10 minutes? cause we can totally put the war on hold until you get your turds in a pile.


Yes, the morale system need some changing (abilities should not require at least one morale point). But the many options for upgrading your crew is very nice, in my oppinion. You can really customize your crew, getting a very fast boat, a very silent one, just an all round one, and so on.


PLAYABILITY

If you have been following the silent hunter series from day one... prepare to get mind f*cked here... because everything you have known for the past 14 years is going to get turned on its head.

Interface, key strokes... the whole works... it has been completely - and i mean COMPLETELY overhauled... to the point that it is not even recognizable as a member of the silent hunter franchise.

the GUI leaves a LOT to be desired and provides the player with almost NO instantaneous access to important... nay... VITAL game information.

the "ahead slow" "ahead flank" "ahead standard" that is pretty much been the staple of the subsim franchise is GONE to be replaced with. "Extreme speed ahead"

wait?

extreme speed ahead?

he says... Extreme speed ahead.

ever heard that order given on a ship? I havn't... until now.


I've been playing every game in the SH series, and I actually like many of the new features and changes. One just needs to play arround a bit, and learn it all...as with all new games. New features like the "Travel" mode, which doesn't stop time compression for anything, is nice. Now you can get through the Kiel canal in no time. Oh, and the Kiel canal is there, a plus too. :smug:

NO instantaneous access to important... nay... VITAL game information.

What info is that? I can get everything I need to know with a few clicks. Have you installed the Command Keys mod? It takes one sec, and enables the "Depth under keel" command (the only one that reeeally should have been in the game as released).

All in all I think that people should play the game some more, before complaining about the things that ARE in the game, but they just haven't figured out. (Deckgun i.e. which works as the in the other games) :03:

The training mission has some features missing, not to confuse you I guess, but it only confuses you even more. As of your first mission, all features are there.

As far as I can tell, all the features of the old games are there, some of them have just been changed a bit, many for the better.

I've had some very interesting patrols already, and the game hasn't been out for very long, give it some time, play arround with the game mechanics, and I think (hope) that you will find many of the things you thought were gone, I know that I did. :) I have been a great fan of the SH series since the first one, was sceptical with regards to SH5, but can only say that I have been plesantly surprised. All one needs is an open mind, and a bit of patience (isn't this the model approach to all new simulators?)

PS: (F1 for help, which shows you the keyboard with all the buttons, and what they do. For example, hold Ctrl+ down, and you can finetune your speed, depth etc.)

[Kaleu_Mihoo]

glad that I did not purchase sh5. i have seen a very, very realistic great simulator. was not for submarine but for tanks and used for the education of soldiers.

price: more than 1 million euros, if I remember correct.

maybe for 42 euros we cannot expect more than crap?

But still, there should be 23809,52 people all over the world who would purchase it :haha: so we should expect much more than the recent state of the game I think

[GREY WOLF 3]

What a great review, I'm glad i did not rush out and by it.
My grandchildren where going to buy me this in 2 weeks time,for my 60th birthday,Ive now got to be cruel and tell them not to:cry: wait to I'm 65 then it might be alright.

UBISOFT:nope::nope::nope: there will be 11 unhappy faces when i tell them this:wah:

[piri_reis]

I got sold on the screenshots, big mistake...

If they released a demo of this, so many people would hold back on purchasing it. Nevermind their poor design and killing the functionality of old series, it's in a state that is almost gamma version level. Oh Ubi :nope:

[IanC]

It's funny (sad) how PC games that come out unfinished and buggy, like SH5, have become so common, that it is accepted by many gamers. Accepted yes, because they either rush out and buy it or even pre-order it!
"Patchs and mods will fix it, don't worry." :roll:

[ryanwigginton]

The watch crew is on a continuous loop of pointing at random, non-existent objects that apparently only they can see in their hallucinogenic world.

however, i sailed to within 800 meters of a large british merchant ship... not one watch crew ever called it out or even hinted to the fact that we were about to collide with the enemy. they just sat there... in there LSD induced stupidity pointing at the invisible flying unicorn people.

======================================

ENEMY AI

on more than one occasion I closed to within pissing distance of a DD which was apparently either abandoned... or the entire crew was experimenting with the same hallucinogenic drugs that my crew was by now completely stoned out of their skulls with.

ROFL :har:

Great review. I didn't expect any less from Ubi.

[j_o_nn_y]

Ive bought this game, it has not been shipped yet and now seen this review. I feel like cancelling but it says I cant. Well I feel like not even installing it now and just leaving it on my shelf until it is fixed.

[Steeltrap]

Yes, the morale system need some changing (abilities should not require at least one morale point). But the many options for upgrading your crew is very nice, in my oppinion. You can really customize your crew, getting a very fast boat, a very silent one, just an all round one, and so on.

I'm sorry, I figured I'd have a type VII A, or B or C, not the "magic kingdom" version depending on what energies my crew happen to be channelling.

If you think this is OK, then that's your right.

I'd prefer anything that alters the performance of relatively fixed hardware by a significant margin, when such alteration is not supported by fact, to stay the hell away from anything pretending to be a simulation.

Oh, wait, this isn't a sim, it's an action/adventure/rpg according to UbiSoftinthehead.

Sheesh......

[Nordmann]

Hilarious review, I laughed the whole way through it! You made some good points, and I have to say, it's put me off buying it (DRM issue aside) until such things are thoroughly fixed (if ever). A pity really, so much could have been done with this title, but it seems that they went for flashy graphics and gimmick, rather than substance and playability.

[TarJak]

Still glad my $100 is still in my pocket. Looks like there is a bit to do to make this worth buying aside from the removal of OSP.

Has anyone tried to start a campaign in 1940 or 1941? Is that possible or is there only one starting point?

[Therion_Prime]

IMO the game is pretty good as it is.

BUT some vital things simply have to be implemented/changed like

- access to the "talents" of the officers/stations through a gui (not having to walk up to them - they had "speaking tubes" in the subs after all)
- Bring back the orders from SH3 (deck-/flakgun orders, WO orders, hydrophone orders and so on)
- replace some unrealistic skills with realistic ones (The skills of the cook for example are somehow believable, but more damaging torpedos - WTF?)

I really feel cripled in my abilities as a Kaleun the way it is now.

[Skybird]

It seems SH5 turns out to be what I feared it would be. Buggy, uncomplete, and pretty much tuned towards arcade. Add to this that unacceptable DRM crap and gameing content being downloaded from the web. After American amazon has started to collect 1 star reviews yesterday, today I saw that German Amazon reviewers also have started to shredder the game. Feedback on two German sites I visited, was not one inch better.

Well, I did not hold my breath for this, and it seems I'm not going to miss something when shutting down my little interest into it completely, so: cheerio, chaps, see you in GT. :salute:

Cheerio UBI as well, I wish you the worst damage you can get from your new "experiment". :yeah:

[Iron Budokan]

Great overview.

This is sounding more and more like pure arcade. A Tinker Toy SubPG dumbed down for drooling clowns. Not a proper subsim at all. Oh, well, it's not like we didn't see this coming.

Shame, really. Ubi had a fantastic opportunity here to carve a new direction in simulations. Instead they took the easy way out and went World of Subcraft. And even there they dropped the ball.

I'm sorry for those people who bought this game and are unhappy. But, boy, from what I'm hearing so far I'm sure glad I saved my money.... :rock:

[Samu*]

It seems SH5 turns out to be what I feared it would be. Buggy, uncomplete, and pretty much turned towards arcade. Add to this this unacceptable DRM crap and gameing content being downloaded from the web. After american amazon has started to collect 1 star reviews, today I saw that German Amazon reviewrs also have started to shredder the game.


Yeah, this is some utter BS after three (3) nicely working games, ie. SH I, III and especially IV. I'm still playing IV without any mods and I have nothing to complain, I didnt even read the manual, it was so simple.

But the V ... well I cant put my initial feelings to words, not nice ones anyway. They took out every clever or familiar from UI and replaced it either with arcade type of BS (basic torp attack, TDC) or didnt replace it at all (commands, rudder, etc etc).

I would have been soo happy if they just would have redone SH IV with few tweaks and some enviroment improvements and put it to the Atlantic. Like take all the eye candy from enviroment and inside of the sub from SH V and marry it with the UI and other familiar stuff from SH IV or even from SH III -> perfect game.

[Decoman]

There were some things I found annoying and really awkward:

• Having chosen German voices but with English text, the world map is still labeled in German, and I think the best solution here would be offer an option to select either the English or the German map labels.

• I really disliked the impossibility of accessing all of the functionality with the menus, when the game started. I am left to worry that things are going to magically appear later on in the game.

• About the character point system. I have nothing nice to say about this. Really.

• I noticed the night/dusk sky showed a banding issue at some point. Could it perhaps be due to a technical issue?

• I use an Ati Radeon 5850 and I enabled antialising with the slider to about 60%. Why omit the details on the antialiasing quality? Otherwise I want to say that the game seem to run great on my computer.

• I liked the interior of the sub, and even the notion of talking to the crew members. Just the notion, the current dialogue options are worthless.

• The music felt intrusive, so I turned it off.

• I could make a complete list, but I don't want to be a downer, as I imagine that the devs will probably work on the game onwards.

[Wintahs]

Guess I'm staying with good ol' SH3 afterall :D

[Rickenbacker]

extreme speed ahead?

he says... Extreme speed ahead.

ever heard that order given on a ship? I havn't... until now.


I prefer SH3:s "Insane speed ahead" :).

[vergol]

Ludicrous speed!

[Mash]

Great review. I believe that the developers were and are on some kind of hallucinogenics if they think this is how a WWII sim should look like. Did they even pick-up a book or watch WWII sub movie???

To me they are taken iphone concepts and web interface designs to try to appeal to the IM generation. At some point, these simulations should create an atmosphere of being in the era and perhaps even teach you about what it felt to be there. Not re-create or re-write history with a modern look and end the war in 1943.

It is like having a WWII flight sim with modern avionics in the cockpit.

[Bilge_Rat]

Based on Goldenrivet's comments, I am wondering if there is a problem with the campaign.

I have not tried the campaign yet, just single missions so far and a lot of the problems mentioned here and elsewhere, such as extreme RPG elements, loss of morale on reloads, brain dead enemy AI are not found in the single missions.

[mookiemookie]

Has anyone tried to start a campaign in 1940 or 1941? Is that possible or is there only one starting point?

I never made it through my first patrol - but it appears that you need to run through the game once, start to finish, before you can choose a later start point than Sept '39.

[codmander]

look at the bright side....................well maybe some sh5 files will inhance sh3

[Yak]

"Extreme Speed Ahead" isn't in fact a command as reported in the initial review, rather a report from the watch crew that they've spotted a cigarette boat, 12 o'clock, running amphetamines to Florida, and that it's carrying some pretty high grade sh*t! :|\\

there is actually a key command for "Gear up" and "gear down"

can anyone explain to me what the **** that means

It means that the DEA or a Coast Guard cutter has spotted you, and your watch crew have to flush all their stash down the toilet ASAP!

[Galanti]

I never made it through my first patrol - but it appears that you need to run through the game once, start to finish, before you can choose a later start point than Sept '39.


Ah, the marvellous console concept of "unlocks".

[Onkel Neal]

In my fourth patrol and running strong. Plenty of bugs that need fixing, stuff that needs tweaking (damage control for one), but getting some enjoyment out of it.

[scrapser]

I don't have the game and likely never will. I just want to add I could see a lot of the issues pointed out here coming as soon as I learned about the interactive crew. The whole interior "living environment" is a great idea but really is not essential to a wartime U-boat simulation. It belongs in a "sim" series game like "The Real Housewives of Submarine Captains" or something similar. It's also in its infancy so there's no surprise the crew behave like animitronic characters.

I seriously doubt anyone involved in producing this "sim" was concerned about the legacy it is supposedly associated with. Right now it appears to be in name only. Too bad. I think the sun is setting on submarine simulations. Hopefully another company will pick up the torch.

[wetwarev7]

Thanks for the review! That was probably the most informative one I've read so far.

:up:

[mookiemookie]

Ah, the marvellous console concept of "unlocks".

Well this is a decision I can kind of understand - there's a storyline to the game. They want to present it as intended and chronologically once before you can skip ahead.

[SteamWake]

"SHIP SPOTTED! right there... holy sh*t i swear it is right there it just appeared out of nowhere... i could break wind on it from here it is so close!"

"Quick... get to the periscope and sink at least 2 of them"



Haha... at that point I was like "Oberservation scope? WTH the damn thing is right there I could throw a rock at it why not just use the uzo?"

I finally got to play it last night for a few hours and I must admit while running about the sub was cool the novelity runs out as soon as you realize you spend 90% of your time at the 2d map anyhow.

and the interface... oi... dont get me started took me 10 minutes to figure out how to get down on the deck..

Speaking of 'on deck' what is with the deck gun if I man it I cant 'zoom' so I cant really aim so I have to leave it to the crew... what a waste of ammo.

I think my biggest gripe is how in the hell do you order a course change? 1 degree right rudder... really??? Look just come right to course 240. We can only do that if you use the map or a turn to heading control. Why in the hell cant I just click a compass rose or give an order anything other than having to bring up the gd map in the middle of an attack.

[Gabucino]

Thanks for all the reviews. Negative critics are much more useful than polcorrectly worded reviews. Not to mention also being more funny :D

This is just like Hearts of Iron 3 all over again.

[COWBOY10]

Great job Goldenrivet, after spending quite a few hrs in only a few days trying to get to grips with this "sim" , I was at a loss at how I could give me concerns over to the forum, without sounding to negitive, You sir, have managed to do it. Great read and every point very valid indeed, Im glad im not the only one who has found these issues, Ok I know at first I complained along with the rest about DRM, I decided to bite the bullet and try it anyway after seeing the amazing vids from Neal. While DRM hasnt caused me any hassles, apart from the saving screen popping up at the worst moments, normally when im in a middle of a attack, I've had no issues with it, even on my slow connection.

However the more I dug into the program the more issues I found and was uncomfy with. Don't get me wrong, I love what they have tried to do with SHV, I mean 1st person walkrounds and a fully 3d sub is great, The graphics are bloody stunning, the weather effects again are great, Though I do wish my crew would wrap up in November storms in the north Sea, and not be hard men in shirts with sleeves rolled up when it should be bloody freezing.

I am sure that it has amazing potential for modding, and could be something amazing, Though I also get the feeling the devs were maybe rushed into letting us have it early to give UBI some profits, Dont worry the community and modders will sort out all the issues. Problem with that is although we have already got some great mods, Our very very talented Modders in this community have their own lives, While we have all benefited greatly from their genarosity, You cant count on that to sort out the game. As fair as im aware, I think most of them arnt even getting the sim cause of DRM issues anyway.

I dont want to sound negitive and I really want to enjoy this "sim" BUT there are too many issues at mo for me to recomend it to anyone or even for that matter to unistall SH3 and GWX from my system. Yes it is a different approch to SH3, as that was a sub sim, and this should be a captain Sim.

BUT as Captain, I'm sorry but I still need the basic info to make my choices, I need to control the rudder and direction quickly, I need my crew to do what I tell them without question, and I need info about stores and state of boat at my fingertips, NOT having to go searching for the info, I need my crew to answer and use the voice tubes as well, When im on attack, I dont have time to go running through boat to ask my torp guy to prep the fish, and I really dont care if my watch officer is proud cause his sons are a chip of the old block.

AT end of day, SH5 DOES have the protential to be more than just amazing graphics, It has the potential to be the amazing sim we want and dream of, However at the mo, It needs to go back to dry dock for a another Year of work.

Im not giving up on it, BUT I will be heading back to SH3 for a while longer, Who knows what the future may bring, and IF the devs are reading this and taking notes, then YOU guys still have a chance at saving this, The programing from what I understand is still here, its just hidden or not activated at mo. Treat this as a beta relese, listen to the simmers, cause believe it or not, we DO NOT want this project to fail or end like this.


Oh sorry bout spelling guys, Hey what can I say, Im a dum Git ;)

[ryanwigginton]

"Extreme Speed Ahead" isn't in fact a command as reported in the initial review, rather a report from the watch crew that they've spotted a cigarette boat, 12 o'clock, running amphetamines to Florida, and that it's carrying some pretty high grade sh*t! :|\\



It means that the DEA or a Coast Guard cutter has spotted you, and your watch crew have to flush all their stash down the toilet ASAP!

:har::wah::haha:

[Faamecanic]

Makes me sad when I see LONG time forum members that I respect, that through the last few versions have said 'give it a chance" are coming out in severe disappointment with SH5.

I guess I will wait to buy until modders have had thier way. But I DID buy SH4 hopping modders would eventually turn it into a GWX...sadly it never was (some came close ..but never as far).

:wah: :nope: :wah:

[Piggy]

Thats exactly how I felt when I saw his name under that post...:cry:

I really dont get why they felt they needed to re-invent the wheel with this one. Why change what was good and simple, like commands to turn the ship and non maritime names for speeds?

Sad to say I will not be buying this untill I start to see a lot more positive posts here about the simple things being changed back to the way they were and/or a great mod team like GWX overhuals it to what it should have been. Its just becoming all to common for game companies to release things in states like this and having the community fix it for free. It will only cost them in the future.

Its too bad, I was really looking forward to the Atlantic with awesome graphics... its just too bad they couldnt do this while leaving everything else alone.

If it aint broke dont fix it!

[FIREWALL]

Still glad my $100 is still in my pocket. Looks like there is a bit to do to make this worth buying aside from the removal of OSP.

Has anyone tried to start a campaign in 1940 or 1941? Is that possible or is there only one starting point?

You have to earn your way thru. :yep:

[SteamWake]

You have to earn your way thru. :yep:

Oh... kind of like level grinding in MMO's ... :doh: :stare:

[Sailor Steve]

And that's totally bogus for someone who plays the way I do. If my career ends I start a new one at the same place, so that leaves me hanging.

I'm sure it can and will be modded out, though.

[CCIP]

No, I think once you get to a certain point in your first career, you can restart from there anytime.

[Sailor Steve]

I certainly hope so, since my other bad habit is to run simultaneous careers, one from each available flotilla.

[ReallyDedPoet]

No, I think once you get to a certain point in your first career, you can restart from there anytime.

:yep: Yes that is my understanding as well.

[Boyarpunk]

"Extreme speed ahead". :o

Please tell me this is a SUBSIM joke or exaggeration and not really in the game (don't have SHV yet).

If this is true, it just screams "marketing focus group". I can picture some high-up marketing execs at Ubi sitting in a boardroom discussing how to make the latest entry of their sub sim series "more user-friendly to today's hip, young, gamer demographic". Uggh.

Next you will tell me that SHV features gnarley boat upgrades like hull flame decals and a rear spoiler; some semi-famous snowboarder or BMXer doing the (English) tutorial voiceover ("Like, you're the Cap'n, cuz!"); the galley is stocked with blatant quantities of Mountain Dew and Red Bull; bags of Doritos (Xtreme Nacho Cheese flavor, natch) hang in the Control Room and when you get a torp hit, there's a cinematic of your crew high-fiving, pointing, winking and bellowing "Awwww yeah" and "You KNOW it!".

:nope::arrgh!:

[evan82]

look at the bright side....................well maybe some sh5 files will inhance sh3
:haha:

[GoldenRivet]

"Extreme speed ahead". :o

Please tell me this is a SUBSIM joke or exaggeration and not really in the game (don't have SHV yet).

mommy told me monsters dont exist...

... but they do.

No... this is not a joke, nor is anything else in the page 1 overview.

[Iron Budokan]

Oh... kind of like level grinding in MMO's ... :doh: :stare:

And unlockable content just like in any other console game....

It's like Ubi decided to give customers the worst of both worlds.

[weeksatsea]

I'm still DOGY - Don't own Game Yet - but "extreme speed" tells me all I need to know.

"Full speed ahead" is a nautical term that makes me feel a bit like a Captain . Extreme speed makes me feel like I downloaded a video game.

Thanks for the review, it is very insightful

[Sailor Steve]

On "Extreme speed ahead": Is that what he says when you hit "Ahead Flank"? If so, it might be a literal translation from the German term.

Only our German-speakers can tell us for sure.

[Boyarpunk]

mommy told me monsters dont exist...

... but they do.

No... this is not a joke, nor is anything else in the page 1 overview.

Aye aye. Thank you for the insightful and informative overview. :salute:

Sadly, it would appear my beloved SH series is not what it used to be. :dead:

[bybyx]

What the...., holy @#&!! now Ubisoft just invented a new type of game: RPG SIM.

[ReM]

I think 'extreme speed ahead' is just a poor English translation for 'Äußerste Fahrt voraus ' which is correct German. (and modelled in SHIII if I am not mistaken) It might even be historic but I would have to look that up.

[brett25]

but it looks so purty......

[ParaB]

On "Extreme speed ahead": Is that what he says when you hit "Ahead Flank"? If so, it might be a literal translation from the German term.

Only our German-speakers can tell us for sure.

It is indeed. In german the expression is "äußerste Fahrt vorraus", which SH5 uses.

But don't worry, we have to put up with wrong names on the map. "Nordmeer" instead of "Nordsee", "Deutche Bucht" instead of "Deutsche Bucht", it's just sad...

[Greif8]

Rem has correctly identified the problem. Like english, where a word may have several meanings, depending on the context the word is used, many german words can have several different meanings. The word Äußerste can mean "extreme", "ultimate" or another word if translated directly. To get the correct translation, in this case for us "All ahead flank!" the german phrase must be translated indirectly as there is no exact literal tranlation for the phrase. Having said the above however, it should not have been difficult to get the coreect phrase as both the german and english phrases have common usage. And that concludes your translation class for the day - for the two of you still reading the mind numbing explanation I have written that is!:)

I think 'extreme speed ahead' is just a poor English translation for 'Äußerste Fahrt voraus ' which is correct German. (and modelled in SHIII if I am not mistaken) It might even be historic but I would have to look that up.

[Greif8]

Ouch, and I just bought the game at MediaMarkt today.

It is indeed. In german the expression is "äußerste Fahrt vorraus", which SH5 uses.

But don't worry, we have to put up with wrong names on the map. "Nordmeer" instead of "Nordsee", "Deutche Bucht" instead of "Deutsche Bucht", it's just sad...

[Will-Rommel]

The watch crew is on a continuous loop of pointing at random, non-existent objects that apparently only they can see in their hallucinogenic world.

they just sat there... in there LSD induced stupidity pointing at the invisible flying unicorn people.
======================================

OMG this is brilliant. Made my day :har:

(And its a good thing because i'm really pissed at the game right now, lost my save game.)

[McHibbins]

Just one word : crap

[KiwiVenge]

mommy told me monsters dont exist...

... but they do.

No... this is not a joke, nor is anything else in the page 1 overview.

Thanks for the review! I don't own SH5 and was trying to get an overall feel for the game before buying. You have summed up just about all the posts I have read so far in a complete manner in one post.
Thanks again!
Oh, by the way, if you happen to know and/or see Blitzpig_Rivet around say "Hello" for me :)

[Egan]

Just one word : crap

Lol....you know, certain people around here might not take that as either constructive or objective criticism. :DL

[kapitan_zur_see]

WATCH CREW

The watch crew is on a continuous loop of pointing at random, non-existent objects that apparently only they can see in their hallucinogenic world.
... in there LSD induced stupidity pointing at the invisible flying unicorn people.


:o

:haha::haha::har::har::har::rotfl2::rotfl2:

just LOVE your overviews!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :yeah:

[kapitan_zur_see]

ichso wrote:

the interaction with the crew shouldnt have been too difficult. heres why:
-your the captain, not their best buddy. they say "hello sir", "yes sir" and bitch about the food, pay and no leave behind your back. therefore its the ambient conversational noise amongst themselves that adds the atmosphere; not you talking to them. the level of that conversational ambient noise varies, loudest when on the surface, hushed when submerged and the odd cough and fart when under attack.
its what they do not what they say thats the key to this. its simple animations responding to battlestations, change of watch, going in and out of the hatch, damage repair, or playing cards or reading in their bunks etc etc. other than move aside for you or look at you nothing else is needed.

someone who understands...
DO you live in Romania? Else I would have recommend you to apply for a lead game designer at UBI there for SH6 :DL

[Rickenbacker]

I think 'extreme speed ahead' is just a poor English translation for 'Äußerste Fahrt voraus ' which is correct German. (and modelled in SHIII if I am not mistaken) It might even be historic but I would have to look that up.

I think it was patched into SH3, but unless my memory fails me, the unpatched vanilla version had "vahnsinnige fahrt foraus" (sp?). Which was kind of fun, actually, but not very realistic :).

[Hartmann]

:o

:haha::haha::har::har::har::rotfl2::rotfl2:

just LOVE your overviews!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :yeah:

Now we know more about the famous soup :har:

Dev team forgot one important thing with the FPS perspective, in a real world a captain can receive information and give orders to the crew speaking, while in shV the captain is mute.

It´s the funtion of the old sh3 sh4 interface, interact and know vital parameters of the boat and give orders very fast.

[jlederer]

Thanks for the very funny review, I laughed aloud at several points reading it.

I just have to agree that it was very confusing in the beginning - when I start any PC game for the first time, before I start playing it, I always go to the Options screen and set up everything the way I want it especially for example display resolution and graphics settings.

In this case, first, I found myself with an AA "slider" where everyone else shows you discrete choices e.g. 2x, 4x, etc. - who came up with that?

But secondly, after I set up all these realism options etc., they throw me into a tutorial and OVERRIDE all the settings I just made *without telling me*. That was confusing, let me tell you. Plus they could have told me "this is a tutorial - do exactly what we tell you, don't press extra buttons" (or better yet locking-out any functions I wasn't supposed to use like good tutorials do) - I started wandering the ship, put down the observation scope (because I'm on the surface, why the heck is the scope up) and then next thing you know they want me using the scope?

[Dimitrius07]

I have a strange feeling, every time i start the game i think about drugs in UBI hq. Wonder why :shifty:

[frau kaleun]

I think it was patched into SH3, but unless my memory fails me, the unpatched vanilla version had "vahnsinnige fahrt foraus" (sp?). Which was kind of fun, actually, but not very realistic :).

That's what I hear when I order ahead flank, using GWX3. "Wahnsinnige fahrt voraus." My G-E dictionary tells me "wahnsinnige" translates to "lunatic, mad, insane."

Whether this was the actual term used in German naval lingo is something I'm curious to know. I always expected to hear "AK voraus."

Now that I know I'm ordering "lunatic speed," though, it kinda makes me grin every time I do it. :O:

[codmander]

OMG this is brilliant. Made my day :har:

(And its a good thing because i'm really pissed at the game right now, lost my save game.)
:rotfl2::rotfl2:

[McHibbins]

Lol....you know, certain people around here might not take that as either constructive or objective criticism. :DL

You´re right and I will apologize for that post but i was so f....ng angry/dissapointed after the first two hours of playing.....
To read about all those problems is still quite different than to live with them :oops:

[jhelix70]

Now that I know I'm ordering "lunatic speed," though, it kind makes me grin every time I do it.

Maybe they were watching "Spaceballs" too much and mean "ludicrous speed"...

[ParaB]

That's what I hear when I order ahead flank, using GWX3. "Wahnsinnige fahrt voraus." My G-E dictionary tells me "wahnsinnige" translates to "lunatic, mad, insane."

Whether this was the actual term used in German naval lingo is something I'm curious to know. I always expected to hear "AK voraus."

Now that I know I'm ordering "lunatic speed," though, it kinda makes me grin every time I do it. :O:

It's from Das Boot. During the attack in the straits of Gibralter the skipper orders "Maschinen drei mal Wahnsinnige!", which, AFAIK means both diesels AND the electric motor flank spead ahead and is supposed to be german navy slang.

The devs probably meant well with that one, but the usage of that term for "normal" flank speed was, of course wrong.

[Turbografx]

The "correct" order would be: "Drei mal äußerste fahrt voraus."

[frau kaleun]

It's from Das Boot. During the attack in the straits of Gibralter the skipper orders "Maschinen drei mal Wahnsinnige!", which, AFAIK means both diesels AND the electric motor flank spead ahead and is supposed to be german navy slang.

The devs probably meant well with that one, but the usage of that term for "normal" flank speed was, of course wrong.

Thanks... now I have a reason to watch Das Boot again, just to pick that out of the dialogue. (Like I needed a reason. :O:)

I can see where that would be navy slang, I mean if you need to move like crazy to get out of something... kinda makes sense.

[Seafireliv]

Now kids, goldenrivet knows how to complain!

GoldenRivet, you wrote a very entertaining thread post there. I was laughing at the drug induced comments. I was tempted to buy the game just to ogle the `hallucinating crew`as youd described it.

Of course, I was only tempted. Not worth the 24\7 DRM, that`s for sure.

But thanks for the enjoyable review anyway.

Wish I had the talent to complain about real faults and make it funny at the same time.:up:

[jerm138]

about an hour later... about 2 hours later, about 3 hours later... NONE of these men's dialogue options ever changed. so... i have to ask... if it is always the same, whats the point.If it's any consolation... that's pretty much the most realistic thing I've heard about this game yet. You hear the same story so many times, you start telling it yourself because you begin to honestly think that it happened to you. I'm sure that a lot of my best sea stories are actually someone else's.

[TarJak]

I never made it through my first patrol - but it appears that you need to run through the game once, start to finish, before you can choose a later start point than Sept '39.
Thanks. That is what I was afraid of. It would appear that whilst the campaign itself is "dynamic" there are some restrictions on how it can be used.

That's a disappointment.

[Skybird]

Just an update, since I now follow the thing not so much with interest anymore, but amusement. Two days ago I read one post referring to those two or three American amazon.com reviews they had back then, giving it just one star.

Currently, while writing this, there are 19 (18x 1 star, 1x4 star).

But German Amazon reviewers are realling shreddering the game, making both the beta-state of the game and the DRM responsible for their anger. After just one and a half day, there are 49 smoking reviews. 3x 5 stars, 4x 2 stars, and 42x 1 star.

German gaming sites that I checked on the fly are also massacring the game, not the editors (as usual they are very forgiving), but the audience.

Whatever UBI has done, they did it the wrong way.

I cannot remember that any of the titles I ever took some interest in, has been suffering such a desasterous start with the targetted audience. Almost all complain on the DRM, but very many also complain on the buggy, unfinished state of the game. It gets called a Beta quite often.

They must have known there are problems with this title. And it is unexcusable to knowingly release a product in such a damaged state. At the time of release, there should be no known problems left. Releasing it although one knows it is broken or heavily damaged, is betrayal as long as customers are not made fully aware of the condition the product is in.

[jerm138]

Just an update, since I now follow the thing not so much with interest anymore, but amusement. Two days ago I read one post referring to those two or three American amazon.com reviews they had back then, giving it just one star.

Currently, while writing this, there are 19 (18x 1 star, 1x4 star).

But German Amazon reviewers are realling shreddering the game, making both the beta-state of the game and the DRM responsible for their anger. After just one and a half day, there are 49 smoking reviews. 3x 5 stars, 4x 2 stars, and 42x 1 star.

German gaming sites that I checked on the fly are also massacring the game, not the editors (as usual they are very forgiving), but the audience.

Whatever UBI has done, they did it the wrong way.

I cannot remember that any of the titles I ever took some interest in, has been suffering such a desasterous start with the targetted audience. Almost all complain on the DRM, but very many also complain on the buggy, unfinished state of the game. It gets called a Beta quite often.

They must have known there are problems with this title. And it is unexcusable to knowingly release a product in such a damaged state. At the time of release, there should be no known problems left. Releasing it although one knows it is broken or heavily damaged, is betrayal as long as customers are not made fully aware of the condition the product is in.

Unfortunately, some (probably most) of the one-star scathing amazon reviews are written by people who don't even own the game.

From one of the reviews:
I won't be buying this (and I really wanted to) because I just can't see spending the money only to get angery at a disconnect and loss of progress in a hunt.

Why pay anybody knowing you will get livid... count on it.. it will happen.. and thats a shame too. It looks like a great game and one I WOUL buy if it was not set for internet 24/7 to play. I can understand people being upset, but this is just plain dirty.... to give a bad rating to something that you don't even own and don't know anything about besides what others say. It makes me question the validity of all the other reviews too (most of which are just more DRM complaints, and not actual reviews.)

This whole affair is beginning to make subsimmers look like a bunch of crybabies.

[frau kaleun]

Unfortunately, some (probably most) of the one-star scathing amazon reviews are written by people who don't even own the game.

From one of the reviews:
I can understand people being upset, but this is just plain dirty.... to give a bad rating to something that you don't even own and don't know anything about besides what others say. It makes me question the validity of all the other reviews too (most of which are just more DRM complaints, and not actual reviews.)

Unfortunately, the OSP/DRM that requires a 24/7 internet connection IS part of the game as it exists right now. Obviously it's enough to make it unplayable or not worth the going price for some people. IMO they're just as entitled to give the game a low rating based on that single aspect as anyone else is based on some bug they find after installing and playing that for them is also a gamebreaker.

As long as they're stating that the OSP/DRM is the sole or main reason for the low rating and/or refusal to purchase, I don't see a problem with it - they're still being honest about their reasons.

[Skybird]

Unfortunately, some (probably most) of the one-star scathing amazon reviews are written by people who don't even own the game.

From one of the reviews:
I can understand people being upset, but this is just plain dirty.... to give a bad rating to something that you don't even own and don't know anything about besides what others say. It makes me question the validity of all the other reviews too (most of which are just more DRM complaints, and not actual reviews.)

This whole affair is beginning to make subsimmers look like a bunch of crybabies.

But that is always the argument to not vote with the wallet and not to "cry" about broken games, right? What you say is that people have no right to criticise a product that they known and that is confirmed to be broken, damaged or having DRM as long as they nevertheless have wasted their money on it. That is a hilarious argument. It would make sense only if people not knowing the game complain about a bug that they do not expereince at first hand and others also do not note.

Here is where the responsibility of review magazines come in. And most often , they fail, and nicetalk things, and are tame on critical findings - not to cloud their relations to the publisher.

Spending money on somethign one knows to be briken, unfinsihed or featuring an unwanted feature, is nothing that is clever, nor is it something that is mandatory for forming an opinion of not wanting that thing.

People not tolerating this DRM method, now have a warnign available to them when visiting the Amazon site. And for that, many people who else would have lost their money, will be thankful.

Or is that just me behaving like a "crybaby"? ;)

If consumers would not buy such things, either due to the buggy condition or due to the DRM, then it would hurt the company. the more money they lose, the greater the chance they learn from it. the more they do, the greater the chance that the people get better games in the future, released in a better state and condition.

Seen that way, SH5 is exactly in that state and condition that many people deserve.

Wjhat I do not like is Amazon reviews of games to be released, and people writing how nice and well it will be, if only it would be released. That is crap getting posted. But people saying why they do not buy a certain product, is perfectly okay, featuring an information that might be of interest for others considering to buy it eventually. If I considered to buy a game in the past, I searched forums and game sites as well to find out whether or not it is thoroughly patched, features starforce or not, etc. If people would not post such ino, I would not have been able to find them - and learn the bitter lessons myself by buying crap, or missing a good title on which I passed for no reason.

[Skybird]

Unfortunately, the OSP/DRM that requires a 24/7 internet connection IS part of the game as it exists right now. Obviously it's enough to make it unplayable or not worth the going price for some people. IMO they're just as entitled to give the game a low rating based on that single aspect as anyone else is based on some bug they find after installing and playing that for them is also a gamebreaker.

As long as they're stating that the OSP/DRM is the sole or main reason for the low rating and/or refusal to purchase, I don't see a problem with it - they're still being honest about their reasons.

However, I want to point oiut that quite some people also refer to the bad state the game is in when they gave it a bad ranking.

more adult players eventually can nod away the loss of money. But teens who were wishing the title from their parents, or are limited in their financial options, suffer a much greater, relative loss.

[frau kaleun]

However, I want to point oiut that quite some people also refer to the bad state the game is in when they gave it a bad ranking.


Oh, no doubt. People who decide the game as it is now is unplayable, for whatever reason, are going to give it a low rating, whether they bought it or not. For some people the online requirement is a known aspect of the game that for them makes it unplayable or at least not worth the current price. They don't have to buy it to know that.

And really, if those people who didn't buy the game and still gave it a low rating because of the OSP/DRM actually had bought the game and THEN complained about it, they'd probably just get slammed for not having done their research ahead of time.

[SteamWake]

AFAIK means both diesels AND the electric motor flank spead ahead and is supposed to be german navy slang.

Dont know about the slang but running diesels and elco's at the same time would be impossible.

[jerm138]

Wjhat I do not like is Amazon reviews of games to be released, and people writing how nice and well it will beHow do you not see how similar these two situations are?

On the one hand, you have a person who hasn't played a game (because it hasn't been released yet) but gives a good review based on screenshots, things he's read about it, and maybe it has some new feature that he really wants the game to have.

On the other hand, you have a person who hasn't played a game (because he hasn't bought it) but gives a bad review based on ... screenshots, things he's read about it, and it has a new "feature" that he really doesn't want the game to have.

Perhaps a good solution would be if amazon and similar sites gave you the ability to write comments about a product without rating it.

I'm pretty sure you took some creative license with what I said. I'm not saying that people don't have a right to "criticize" or "form an opinion"... I just think that somebody who hasn't used a product is not qualified to write a review of that product and give it a bad rating. The same as people not being qualified to write a good review of a product that hasn't been released yet.

[Drednots]

Ever since my experiences with SoE (Sony) and a few others I have learned never to buy a brand new game. My past experience taught me most games these days are released bug ridden and incomplete. I will wait until I hear things have improved and modders have a few rounds with it until I buy. I am having too much fun with SH4 with all the mods right now anyway.

[Iron Budokan]

Of course, for the Ubi apologists any bad review would by neccessity have to be invalidated for one reason or another....

I swear, the lulz just get better and better. :haha:

[Iron Budokan]

As long as they're stating that the OSP/DRM is the sole or main reason for the low rating and/or refusal to purchase, I don't see a problem with it - they're still being honest about their reasons.

^^This.

[jerm138]

Of course, for the Ubi apologists any bad review would by neccessity have to be invalidated for one reason or another....

I swear, the lulz just get better and better. :haha:

Not sure if you're talking about me here...

But rest assured, I'm not an UBI apologist.
I despise the DRM scheme and will not buy the game (in its current state)... MOSTLY for that reason, but for other reasons as well.

I just have the capacity to recognize unfairness, even if it benefits my wishes.

[Skybird]

How do you not see how similar these two situations are?


Because they are not similiar.

One person prematurely writes (and you have such postings very often at Amazon): "I have waited long time for this game, and it will be great. I am so excited, and I can't stand the wait. This will become the new benchmark in the genre. If opnly it would already be released!"

The other person writes on another title: "Since this game comes with this feature XYZ, I refuse to buy it, since I do not like XYZ for this and that reason. That so many people also confirm/report to have this and that problem with it, also stops me from buying. Those bugs are what kills it for me."

The first writes about wishful expectations for a future he does not know a thing about, so it is his very personal fantasy. the game is unknown, there is no feedback available that is basing on the game itself.

The second bases on confirmed features of an already released game.

And if this still does not make sense to you, ask yourself why only so very few Amazon customers - who actually have bought the game already - have something more positive to say, when there are plenty of examples for good titles that got all the credit they deserved.

Anyhow, I already have spend more time here and on this issue, than I originally planned. My money stays with me, and UBI will not get it. File closed.

[ERPP8]

OH MY GOD!!!, SOMEBODY PUT A FORK IN THE ROAD!
QUICK TURN LEFT BEFORE IT PUNCTURES OUR PRESSURE HULL!!!!
If we're driving how are we in a submarine?
:haha::har::rotfl2::haha::har::rotfl2::haha::har:: rotfl2::haha::har::rotfl2::haha::har::rotfl2::haha ::har:

[SteamWake]

They do call it 'driving' the boat you know.. but maybe I missed something.

[Nisgeis]

Wjhat I do not like is Amazon reviews of games to be released, and people writing how nice and well it will be, if only it would be released. That is crap getting posted.

Amazon no longer allows reviews of products that have not reached their release date yet, so you cannot review a product before its release date, even if, as in the SH5 fiasco, you do actually own a legitimate copy.

[Skybird]

Amazon no longer allows reviews of products that have not reached their release date yet, so you cannot review a product before its release date, even if, as in the SH5 fiasco, you do actually own a legitimate copy.

I checked German Amazon, and find confirmed what you say. A review button for announced titles that are not yet released, is no longer there. :yeah:

That was about time. It took them just some years to get that fixed! :DL

[jerm138]

ask yourself why only so very few Amazon customers - who actually have bought the game already - have something more positive to say, when there are plenty of examples for good titles that got all the credit they deserved
Because the game is probably crappy. I'm not trying to argue that point. I just don't need people to copy/paste the bad reviews to magnify them in an attempt to hurt the company who made the product. That's dirty. It drowns out the few positive things people might have to say about it and skews the percentages. I want to hear opinions of people who have actually played the game instead of people who are just upset that they can't get the game that they feel that somebody OWES them (this sense of entitlement and subsequent whining is what I was referring to when I mentioned "crybabies," and I've seen a lot of it here and elsewhere.)

Obviously we're not going to agree on this issue. At least it has taught me to not put so much stock in user reviews now that I know people feel this way. :nope: Sorry for polluting the thread with my arguing... I just considered it an issue worth talking about.

To get it back on-topic...
I really did like the review, GoldenRivet. It was very informative and entertaining at the same time. It's good to hear something besides the usual complaint.

[Skybird]

Because the game is probably crappy. I'm not trying to argue that point. I just don't need people to copy/paste the bad reviews to magnify them in an attempt to hurt the company who made the product. That's dirty.
Is it? I say dirty is the company releasing a product knowginly in this condition (and it is fair to say that UBI has a strong reputation of doing like this time and again). Campaigning against them and making people boycotting it so that the financial damage is such that in the future the company maybe thinks twice before repeating this offence and betrayal of it's customers, is perfectly okay. And if more people would have done so in the past instead of being too forgiving, then we would not be where we are today. Because either UBI would release better games in a better condition - or they already would be gone, and would not have been able to buy up so many game studios. It's called voting with your wallets.

It drowns out the few positive things people might have to say about it and skews the percentages.
Feedback and Review are two different things. A good review does what you want, it mentions both the shade and the light, in one piece. At least it should - most reviews in print magazines for example do not like this if they are commercial releases - they are very forgiving on the shady side of things, and remain silent about disadvanatges quite often. they fall into the producer'S line of policies and demands how the market should behave, and that is: uncritically. But feedback sites like that at Amazon should give a feedback on numerical relations of people's satisfaction and dissatisfaction as well, that's why they combine it in a star ranking. Additionally people can comment on their reasons why they give this or that rating. there must not be a balance between good and bad ratings and arguments, that is against the nature and reason of such a ranking system. It is wanted to be not objective, but subjective. That's why it is there. To tell interested potential customers how many people liked the title/company, and how many do not.

I want to hear opinions of people who have actually played the game instead of people who are just upset that they can't get the game that they feel that somebody OWES them (this sense of entitlement and subsequent whining is what I was referring to when I mentioned "crybabies," and I've seen a lot of it here and elsewhere.)
You think it is a question of opinions of whether or not it has this DRM procedure or not? You think it is open for discussion whether or not the game is an a broken/buggy/unfinished state? That is like discussing whether or not the traffic lights are red or green. But that is not to be discussed. It is either red, or green. that is not a question of personal belief or interpretation. the signal light currently shows red, or green. Full Stop.

I agree though on that part of yours saying that people complain about what they think that company owed them to deliver in features and content and what they expected it to be. that is very childish. No company owes to you to design their product right like you want it as long as you have not given them the contract to design in by your order. Although, again, delivering a product in not a too buggy state and without such a crappy DRM is something any company owes to it'S customers indeed - as long as it demands to be payed with money for that delivery.

And if you read a bit at all Amazon sites there are, you'll see that now after it is being released, there are most people complaining now about the buggy state, and it being unfinished, saying that DRM is what additionally kills it for them. Obviously there are plenty of people now who comment on the basis of their own bad experience, and wish they could get their money back. there is no comment being made in advance of the release dates (since it has been pointed out that Amazon no longer allows that, which is very good and additionally takes some wind out of your sail).

07th March, 10:21 German time:

UK (later release date than Germany and USA)
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/6852/image1th.jpg (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/image1th.jpg/)

US:
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6633/image2ci.jpg (http://img521.imageshack.us/i/image2ci.jpg/)

Germany:
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/1649/image3jr.jpg (http://img13.imageshack.us/i/image3jr.jpg/)

:D :D :D


P.S. I am not so much complaining about SH5, it is off my radar screen anyway. I just debate becasue of this strange opinion of yours which i perceive as saying that a bad product nevertheless should not be brandmarked as "bad" that often by people. Because this attitude is what encourages companies like UBI not to do proper work, but to take the short cut, sack the money nevertheless and hope to get away with it. And most often, they do. I criticise this - both forgiving customers and company behavior - since the times of Sub Command. And that is almost ten (?) years ago.

[IanC]

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/6852/image1th.jpg (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/image1th.jpg/)

US:
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6633/image2ci.jpg (http://img521.imageshack.us/i/image2ci.jpg/)

Germany:
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/1649/image3jr.jpg (http://img13.imageshack.us/i/image3jr.jpg/)


Ouch!

[Onkel Neal]

Bah, nerd rage :zzz:

[IanC]

I don't know, that's a lot of nerds with a lot of rage.

[Skybird]

I don't know, that's a lot of nerds with a lot of rage.
Even worse, plenty of nerds here at subsim, too:

85% of over 1100 members say they will not buy, will/have cancelled their preorders, and/or wait for the future.

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/6200/image4skn.jpg (http://img15.imageshack.us/i/image4skn.jpg/)

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=160783


The only way to get better software in the future, guys, is too punish the producers by boycotting them. There is no alternative to this policy.

[jwilliams]

About the Amazon votes.

A few of comments are from people complaining about OSP (DRM) and haven't even bought the game.

But admitidly alot are from people that did buy. Mostly complaining about the OSP (DRM), and the unfinished state of the game.
Those reviews on amazon are gonna really hurt the sales of this game. Which could mean the end of the series. :wah:
Ubi's own fault for not delaying the release. but its gonna hurt us simmers the most.:damn:

But one positive for me is :- that will mean that EB Games wont be sold out when i go to pick up a copy.:yeah:
(still not available in NZ until 12 March :nope:)

[jwilliams]

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/6200/image4skn.jpg (http://img15.imageshack.us/i/image4skn.jpg/)

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=160783




But alot of people here at SS that voted "Wait for Ubi to remove", have already bought it. Or was it their wife/GF that bought it. :hmmm:

I voted "cancel my preorder and wait" even tho i hadn't pre ordered it...
but there wasn't a wait and see option. So i picked the closest.

[Distress]

Great summary by OP, I couldn't agree more. I bought this game on steam and unfortunately refund isn't in their vocabulary for already released games so I'm stuck with this dud of a game.
Major disappointment.

[Skybird]

but its gonna hurt us simmers the most.:damn:


No it won'T. the damage for those who payed for it and now regret it - is much bigger.

Better no bad sim at all and saving your money, than loosing your money on a bad sim.That way you still have the money to spend it on something better.

It is simpole market mechanisms. People get the quality that they will to pay for. You accept to pay for crappy quality - you will get delivered crappy quality. Because with your buy you make it possible that in the future it happen again - on the basis of your earlier investements.

If this business practice pays off for them - why should they ever change it?

[jwilliams]

No it won'T. the damage for those who payed for it and now regret it - is much bigger.

Better no bad sim at all and saving your money, than loosing your money on a bad sim.That way you still have the money to spend it on something better.

It is simpole market mechanisms. People get the quality that they will to pay for. You accept to pay for crappy quality - you will get delivered crappy quality. Because with your buy you make it possible that in the future it happen again - on the basis of your earlier investements.

If this business practice pays off for them - why should they ever change it?


With the negative feed back from this release, do you think there's gonna be another silent hunter..... my guess is there isn't. I'd imagine this game will have even lower sale than SH4.
Ubi *******ed up big time.
But this SH will be amazing once its been modded...... Im sure modders can turn it into SH3 GWX with those oh... so... beautiful graphics and First person Views.
So for that reason im going to buy it.

[Myxale]

I'm ready to join the ranks of nay-sayers!:dead:

Tested the game a whole night at a friends place and came to a sad conclusion.

SH% Not for me!:nope:

////

First off, the game is pretty as hell. Eyeball popping to the bone. Hell so sweet you almost get wet!:up:

Submodels are very nicely done, even lovely so.


I too started the "training mission" and felt like having a bizarre moment. Ok, your the XO, shoot a few boats that pop up and go home.

Sure the whole thing was strange at best! And unfitting what you might call training!

But i hoped there would be more! In the actual campaign.

I walked around a bit and was happy at my complete sub...only it's not complete!

Standing beside the Navigator, wanting to read the clock, because the symbol in the upper right only shows you the cycle as day, night and dawn/dusk..

And here to my utter surprise and shock the Clock isn't working. It's just a friggin' Bitmap over polygon.
Hell even SH3 had a working clock. Had a working Echolot had a working many things. :stare:
How can you play a WWII sub simulator without a proper clock. clock.

The clock might as wel serve as a synonym for all the missing equipment and stuff in ones sub.

Things like TDC like, Weather Report, with visibility and so on... too much to count.

The RPG element goes nowhere. Ask about the Wife, the Brother and the friggin' Dog and the people are happy and the morale goes up.:88)


We all wanted the possibility to walk around the sub, now we "must".

Being forced to leave your spot at the periscope in the tower just to tell the LI to rig for silent running is ridiculous.

WTH.

What happened to issuing orders down the hatch. And why is the Watchcrew still standing on the tower, while the sub is at 150m.

But seeing how blind and useles the AI on both sides is, i guess there is not real need for sophisticated tools in the sub. The GUI is devoid of all the needed and vital information one needs to work properly as a Kaleun.

Just like the game is devoid of anything Sim!:nope:

On the plus side the script-language is a fair one and the modd-ability is better. But why spending years again into this half-baked Game modding it to something better, when we can spent that time playing SH3. :o

Maybe I'm too used to the real things like GWX/NYGM/WAC/LSH.

Sorry for the rant.

I just needed to vent, but in the end I ended up saying far less than intended.:shifty:

PS. Love the loading screens with nice bits of info!

[sunbeam_cz]

there is actually a key command for "Gear up" and "gear down"

can anyone explain to me what the **** that means


ou golden thx for your comments I have tears in my eyes !

you just made me laught like noone else today.

i can only thx UBIsoft for releasing such a waste so you could pop your great comments..

sadly - everything you wrote here is absolute right...

[sunbeam_cz]

"Extreme Speed Ahead" isn't in fact a command as reported in the initial review, rather a report from the watch crew that they've spotted a cigarette boat, 12 o'clock, running amphetamines to Florida, and that it's carrying some pretty high grade sh*t! :|\\



It means that the DEA or a Coast Guard cutter has spotted you, and your watch crew have to flush all their stash down the toilet ASAP!


loool !!
thx for this crap UBISOFT so you funny people can post such a great comments !:salute:

[SteamWake]

Being forced to leave your spot at the periscope in the tower just to tell the LI to rig for silent running is ridiculous.

I ran accross this last night talk about an immersion killer.

Get up from scope, run down the ladder, talk to the xo to order silent running, run back up the ladder, sit back down at the scope now where were those targets... :doh:

It was such an immersion killer I saved the game and went off to do other things. :oops:

[jerm138]

Feedback and Review are two different things. A good review does what you want, it mentions both the shade and the light, in one piece.

I agree 100%.

And guess what they call it on Amazon.... (hint: it's not called "feedback")

there must not be a balance between good and bad ratings and arguments, that is against the nature and reason of such a ranking systemThat's a straw-man argument. I'm not calling for a "balance between good and bad ratings." Where did you even get that idea? I'm calling for legitimacy in the reviews by being from someone who has FIRST-HAND experience with a product.

You think it is a question of opinions of whether or not it has this DRM procedure or not?Another weak strawman argument. I'm not even sure how to address this one it's so far out there.

You think it is open for discussion whether or not the game is an a broken/buggy/unfinished state? That is like discussing whether or not the traffic lights are red or green. But that is not to be discussed. It is either red, or green. that is not a question of personal belief or interpretation.You're building an army of these guys. :D
I'm not talking about traffic lights, which are not dynamic. They're typically 100% red, green, yellow, or off at any given moment. I'm talking about rating the quality of something... giving an overall impression based on your experience with it. For a person who actually played the game, it usually IS dynamic and not absolute. They typically complain about the bugs but praise the graphics. THIS is what a review is (and I'm pretty sure you agree since you said so yourself.)

It's not much different than a movie. It would be absurd to write a good review of Avatar if you've never seen it just because you read a lot of good things about it. It would be equally absurd to leave a bad review of a movie that you haven't seen because of all the horrible things you heard about it.

Obviously there are plenty of people now who comment on the basis of their own bad experience, and wish they could get their money back.These are the people whose reviews I value. It sucks for them, but that's the risk you take when you are the first to try a product. I feel for the first-time subsimmers, but I have NO sympathy for long-time SH enthusiasts who are unhappy with the buggy state... they can't honestly act surprised considering UBI's track record with this series. I'm not saying they should be happy with it, quite the opposite, but acting surprised and getting all upset about it???:rotfl2:

//and yes... I am a major nerd. No rage though.

[Flopper]

I ran accross this last night talk about an immersion killer.

Get up from scope, run down the ladder, talk to the xo to order silent running, run back up the ladder, sit back down at the scope now where were those targets... :doh:

It was such an immersion killer I saved the game and went off to do other things. :oops:

Wow, that sounds dismal. I hope the modders can fix that for y'all.

[Nisgeis]

Get up from scope, run down the ladder, talk to the xo to order silent running, run back up the ladder, sit back down at the scope now where were those targets... :doh:

The 'Z' key shortcut works for me as a 'rig for silent running' command.