Update me on DRM

[Skybird]

I have not bought any brandnew released games since very long time, I hardly buy any games at all these days, and if so, very rarely and second hand only, so I am out of touch with the current "scene".

I just returned from the SH5 forum and see the game - or sim - has been released. I also understood not before today that UBI has implemented a DRM scheme that makes it mandatory to connect to the internet not only for registration, but to stay online for all the time you play offline. Something like that I only associated with Steam so far.

Is this the dawning of the new copy protection ways? I mean is this the way things are heading, or is it just another single experiment by UBI? Update me please, I really don't know. I just was stunned to read it in the SH5 forum.

Some days ago I read about that soldier complaining about copy protections like this. But I walked away from that text with the impression that it is only a minor phenomenon, affecting only some games.

[CaptainHaplo]

The first game I know of to try it was Rise of Flight - and they have since gotten rid of it via patch. UBI is the first major company to do the "online all the time is a requirement" so far. Other companies are surely looking at what happens with it.

Right now - it seems to be a mixed bag - but many folks are not buying it due to privacy issues. I personally see it as more a marketing driven decision - this gives the UBI marketing people ALL kinds of info - like who and how many people play what and for how long - so they know where the "money makers" are - which drives the decisions of what to develop next. Ubi admits this also has to do with controlling the resale of games more than actual pirating/copy protection. Of course - they haven't said a word about the marketing data created - but instead are focusing on how this "service" will supposedly be a great benefit to the customer. So far, the posted experiences have not demonstrated that to be true.

[Oberon]

http://www.pets-warehouse.com/pic-s/SZMZM42.jpg

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/02/17/you-maniacs/

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/01/27/new-ubisoft-games-must-always-be-online/

http://support.uk.ubi.com/online-services-platform/

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=162029

[NeonSamurai]

Their new system failed, so this is probably going end up being a public relations disaster. As Neal said elsewhere, its a win for the pirates, a loss for the end users (i would say a loss for ubi as well, but he gave ubi a 0). I expect Ubi will back away from it pretty quick (maybe after trying to make it work a few times).

Anyhow I don't want this thread (or any others in general) turning into a discussion about it, as I don't want the can pictured above opened any more then it is.

[Wolfehunter]

I love how they blame the pirates.. With all the money and energy in trying to fight the pirates there forgetting how to make great games. They should use those resources to make better games and focus on those loyal fans who will spend hard earned cash.

But logic has escaped them and greed has moved in to a new level. No company will take control of my rig unless I say ok.. I don't send my personal data to these idiots. I don't use there malwares to run and steal my data too..

SHV isn't a game but an experiment from UBI to see how you will react. How much your willing to give up of yourself... :nope:

[Reece]

and it's been cracked already!:o Didn't take long!:D

[antikristuseke]

all copy protection is useless for exactly that reason, pirates get a better experience than paying customers and everything will be cracked easily.

[CaptainHaplo]

Fellow Subsimmers - take Neon's kind words (he is an admin after all - giving everyone a bit of wisdom) - and don't talk about things on this site that are against the rules.

Its likely ok to discuss DRM in general and its impact on PLAYERS who legally have the game. Some people are having no problems with OSP - others are having some issues. That is fine to discuss. Your also probably fine to discuss concerns about the DRM, such as privacy, marketing data, etc.

But do NOT - I repeat - DO NOT - discuss things that are off limits in this forum. Every member agrees to certain constraints upon joining - and are expected to follow the rules here.

A few threads have already been closed because people said things they shouldn't. Folks also have gotten themselves into hot water by stating things that violate subsim rules. Neal and the crew work hard to make sure this community stays the best it can be - help out by keeping discussions away from areas that they shouldn't go.

[Reece]

What we are talking about is ok! We haven't mentioned cracks or where to get them etc, we are only talking news!:yep:

[Semtex]

now we know. this DRM is a epic fail :rotfl2:

[Skybird]

So if I should ever consider to buy a brandnew game again, while this DRM procedure is not the rule, and is unlikely (really? Something tells me the opposite...) to become one, I nevertheless have to watch out for titles eventually featuring it. Needless to say I don't like it one bit, and don'T tolerate it.

Haplo, you meant with that part on controlling second hand selling that this is not possible anymore?

[goldorak]

So if I should ever consider to buy a brandnew game again, while this DRM procedure is not the rule, and is unlikely (really? Something tells me the opposite...) to become one, I nevertheless have to watch out for titles eventually featuring it. Needless to say I don't like it one bit, and don'T tolerate it.


I already abandoned years ago the sinking ship of DRM infested games even if it meant not buying some titles I would haved loved to play. In the end its my money, and I don't throw it away to have headaches, to have my computer filled with incompatible DRM crap.
To let somebody dicated when, how and if I can play the game.
I prefer to buy games that give me no problem.

So this is what I do :


Buy classic games on GOG.com (drm free)
Buy second hand games on the amazon.co.uk marketplace (for those classic games that aren't in GOG.com and that have no internet DRM, so titles up to early 2000).
Wait for an official patch to strip out DRM from games, eg : Arma II, Egosoft's titles, and so on...


Outside of these 3 points, the videogame industry get my middle finger.


Haplo, you meant with that part on controlling second hand selling that this is not possible anymore?

If you "buy" a game that requires registration/activation you can 100% kiss goodbye to being able to resell it later. Did you know that some new games even have certain parts that can be unlocked only when you install it for the first time.

I mean why do you have to support an industry that doesn't give a damn about its clients ?
For me in the end it worked, I stopped buying games outside of the policy I outlined above.

[MothBalls]

For me the bottom line is this.

The people who download the pirated software were never going to buy it in the first place, and they never will anyway. The DRM only creates headaches for the honest people who would buy the game. In the end, all they are doing is shooting themselves in the foot.

One decision like this could seriously make a difference in that entire companies future. As soon as the competition sees this, they'll exploit it and use it to their advantage, only making the situation worse for UBI.

With the economy the way it is, my guess would be they'll cut the last patch in 6-8 months, and it will end up removing the DRM. This whole thing was a bad idea from the get go.

[Letum]

Imandatory to connect to the internet not only for registration, but to stay online for all the time you play offline. Something like that I only associated with Steam so far.

I think someone should defend Steam on this point.

Steam does not require constant internet connection.
Steam runs fine in an offline mode.

[Wolfehunter]

I already abandoned years ago the sinking ship of DRM infested games even if it meant not buying some titles I would haved loved to play. In the end its my money, and I don't throw it away to have headaches, to have my computer filled with incompatible DRM crap.
To let somebody dicated when, how and if I can play the game.
I prefer to buy games that give me no problem.

So this is what I do :


Buy classic games on GOG.com (drm free)
Buy second hand games on the amazon.co.uk marketplace (for those classic games that aren't in GOG.com and that have no internet DRM, so titles up to early 2000).
Wait for an official patch to strip out DRM from games, eg : Arma II, Egosoft's titles, and so on...


Outside of these 3 points, the videogame industry get my middle finger.



If you "buy" a game that requires registration/activation you can 100% kiss goodbye to being able to resell it later. Did you know that some new games even have certain parts that can be unlocked only when you install it for the first time.

I mean why do you have to support an industry that doesn't give a damn about its clients ?
For me in the end it worked, I stopped buying games outside of the policy I outlined above.Skybird.. Goldorak is right. I'm doing similar system. Many publishers are draconic with there game releases. Few companies like egosoft remove there drm's after a period of time. Thats why I support ego. There the last few good PC games out.

[NeonSamurai]

I think someone should defend Steam on this point.

Steam does not require constant internet connection.
Steam runs fine in an offline mode.

There are however a lot of things that steam does that people should be wary about. Steam is absolutely forbidden on my system for several of those reasons I am not going to get in to right now.

I have to say I don't have major issues with most current forms of DRM, though I do like it when they strip the DRM out after a few months. I also do my research and don't buy games with online verification, install limits, or anything which would limit my playing the game down the road (I buy games with staying power, not 10 hours of entertainment that then collects dust).

The conjecture that pirates wouldn't have bought the game is false, just as false as the opposite idea that every game pirated is a lost sale. The reality is somewhere in the middle, where many pirated games (particularly in western markets) do represent lost sales. Piracy is also starting to reach epidemic levels now with it being so easy to do (any idiot with an internet connection can get what ever they want very easily now).


Anyhow I am going to lock this thread. Not because it is getting out of hand or anyone did anything wrong, but there have been far to many of these piracy/drm threads of late on the Subsim forums, and these threads tend to go bad.

Sky if you have any more questions about current DRM feel free to send me a pm. I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have, and if there are specific games you are interested in I can look up the DRM they come with.