What you need to know about SH5 and cracks.........

[Onkel Neal]

Guys, I know some of you are excited about the possibilty that SH5 has been cracked. (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1291248#post1291248) Big news, yes, got it.

May be true, may be BS, may be a scam, trojan, or some brokeass piece of who knows what (http://www.kotaku.com.au/2009/09/deliberate-glitch-foils-arkham-pc-pirates/).

However, we don't discuss it in this forum. Are some going to crack it or steal it? Whatever, but I'm making this post to let you know this is news you better share somewhere else.

Ubisoft: 0
Pirates: 1
Consumers: -1

[Paajtor]

Consumers: -1


nice 1

[Adriatico]

Is it fair if we buy original - and apply crack to get rid of DRM curse ?

It was similar thing with SH3 when people used "unofficial" exe to achieve higher screen resolutions ?

[CCIP]

Is it fair if we buy original - and apply crack to get rid of DRM curse ?

It was similar thing with SH3 when people used "unofficial" exe to achieve higher screen resolutions ?

As Neal just said, Subsim doesn't care what you do at home. As long as you don't discuss it here.

[Onkel Neal]

Is it fair if we buy original - and apply crack to get rid of DRM curse ?

It was similar thing with SH3 when people used "unofficial" exe to achieve higher screen resolutions ?

Let's go over this again: Who cares what you do--don't discuss it here. You understand English?

Clear? :roll:

[Reece]

Neal doesn't care what you do as long as "cracks" are not discussed here, you would still have to purchase the original game and register otherwise you won't receive the update patches!!:doh:
Whoops posted only to find Neal & CCIP had as well!!:oops:

[Nisgeis]

Let's go over this again: Who cares what you do--don't discuss it here. You understand English?

Clear? :roll:

Now look here Mister! If I find any of my crews eyes 'accidentally' end up in your game, then I won't be happy you know. All 'eyes' are upon you.

[Adriatico]

Neal, I understand English... but this forum deserves a theread "what is sense of DRM now?"

You now what I mean... we had heaps of " what if " topics... and " what now " are less desirable?

[Onkel Neal]

Neal, I understand English... but this forum deserves a theread "what is sense of DRM now?"

You now what I mean... we had heaps of " what if " topics... and " what now " are less desirable?


No, that's what Google is for.

Next, people will be posting "This crack did not work on my "legal" copy of SH5, which other ones should I try?"

[Drifter]

Some people just don't understand subtly. Sometimes they need to be hit over the head with a hammer.

Thanks Neal. :)

[Paajtor]

In my opinion, pirates are cracking a game that isnt worth the craching yet.

But suppose it was, it would still be a disaster for the series.

[Ducimus]

Boy did i call it! (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1255436&postcount=63)

Here's how this works for the uninitiated. We all know about it, but pretend not to, and your never allowed to talk about it or Neal slaps you one with one of my favorite two avatars.

[Onkel Neal]

Boy did i call it! (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1255436&postcount=63)

Here's how this works for the uninitiated. We all know about it, but pretend not to, and your never allowed to talk about it or Neal slaps you one with one of my favorite two avatars.

Wow, you learn fast.

[Adriatico]

No, that's what Google is for.

Next, people will be posting "This crack did not work on my "legal" copy of SH5, which other ones should I try?"

I thought that Ubi politics - was legitimate target in this forum... but if loss of control is real danger -OK.:up:

*** Drifter
"hammer on had" is tool of dumb and barbaric creatures - gentleman at forums easily dicuss the issues... leave it for RPG environment.

[Ducimus]

Old hat Neal. Old hat. :O:

[Onkel Neal]

I thought that Ubi politics - was legitimate target in this forum... but if loss of control is real danger -OK.:up:

*** Drifter
"hammer on had" is tool of dumb and barbaric creatures - gentleman at forums easily dicuss the issues... leave it for RPG environment.


Hate to say it, but it always works that way, man. Give people an inch, they'll walk all over you. :cry:

[Paajtor]

And just a reminder..we are talking about Art here.
Which entertainement is, correct?

What a shame, that it had to come this way.

[FIREWALL]

You can talk about.. Crackin your knuckles. Crackin walnuts or somebodys skull. :haha:

Just not Games. :yep:... :DL

[R-T-B]

Is it fair if we buy original - and apply crack to get rid of DRM curse ?

It was similar thing with SH3 when people used "unofficial" exe to achieve higher screen resolutions ?

Actually the high-res "hack" had no exe distributed, just a totally 3rd party dll.

[reaper7]

You can talk about.. Crackin your knuckles. Crackin walnuts or somebodys skull. :haha:

Just not Games. :yep:... :DL

:har::rotfl2::har:

All I want is some one to Crack.... The Interface.... gimme some dials. :up:

[AVGWarhawk]

Boy did i call it! (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1255436&postcount=63)

Here's how this works for the uninitiated. We all know about it, but pretend not to, and your never allowed to talk about it or Neal slaps you one with one of my favorite two avatars.


If anyone knows those avatars............:har::O:

[Ducimus]

If anyone knows those avatars............:har::O:

I got equity in 'em.

[Adriatico]

Actually the high-res "hack" had no exe distributed, just a totally 3rd party dll.

In the begining it worked much better when applied on hmmm... later was explained advanced method.

[malkuth74]

I don't know if I can say this or not.. But the official word at the UBI forums is that it has not been done yet.

The so called things in question are actually viruses.

[Drifter]

I don't know if I can say this or not.. But the official word at the UBI forums is that it has not been done yet.

The so called things in question are actually viruses.

Lmao. :rotfl2:

[capthelm]

move along now nothing to see here....:timeout:

[Able72]

I understand why you can't talk about it openly. We must protect the Radio Room. Don't want Neal getting into trouble with UBI claiming he 'knowingly supported illegal activity' or some such.

I even get why 4 years later it gets to be ok. The game is no longer worth UBI's time to 'protect'. It would cost them to much money to pursue.

[malkuth74]

Can I post the official response from the UBI forums Neal?

[ETR3(SS)]

I don't know if I can say this or not.. But the official word at the UBI forums is that it has not been done yet.

The so called things in question are actually viruses.

Lmao. :rotfl2:As much as some people here would love for the game to cracked on day one, if for no other reason than to spite Ubi, I gotta say I agree with Ubi at the moment. Any clown can put up a torrent, or crack, or hack of a game, and call it just that. What it truly is, at this stage, is more than likely malware/viruses etc.

[Dowly]

As much as some people here would love for the game to cracked on day one, if for no other reason than to spite Ubi, I gotta say I agree with Ubi at the moment. Any clown can put up a torrent, or crack, or hack of a game, and call it just that. What it truly is, at this stage, is more than likely malware/viruses etc.

No, it is the real deal. It is cracked. It failed. NEEEEXT!

[Onkel Neal]

I understand why you can't talk about it openly. We must protect the Radio Room. Don't want Neal getting into trouble with UBI claiming he 'knowingly supported illegal activity' or some such.


No, no, it's nothing to do with me getting into trouble. There are hundreds of forums where people talk about cracks, game companies don't bother with them. It's because I think it's wrong to download games one doesn't pay for. Period. Especially submarine games, it will kill the hobby. And if we start discussing cracks, it will lead to worse.

I don't want to debate that, it's my opinion, nothing new.

[gutted]

I was going to stay silent on the issue, but since the cat is out of the bag i'll just say this...

It happened.

It's simply a "fixed exe", just like any other NoCD patch for virtually every other game floating around. Cracked and released by the usual suspects that do alot of the cracking.

Do yourself and everyone else here a favor and buy this game so we get more of them. What you do with it afterwards is your own business.

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

Tried something else instead of using this protection scheme. Clearly, they have upset many people by doing it. Both players and a potential audience have been put off by deploying this DRM method. There are other schemes out there that work better and don't include cramping limitations such as being connected to the internet at all times to play. I'm no expert but I'm sure something else could have been done. If these reports that the product has been compromised are correct, clearly they have failed to achieve what they set out to achieve. In one day on top of it? Now that's insulting. I hope it was worth it for Ubisoft to do this in the first place.

[UrPeaceKeeper]

Neal I dont mean to insult your intelligence and I'm sure you knew this already but there is a legitimate use for Cracked exe files for those who collect game disks. Prevents scratches from use in games that "require" a CD/DVD. Cracks themselves are perfectly legally, distributing copies of the game however is NOT. It's bad that cracks are synonomous with illegal activity as there are game collectors out there who depend on cracked .exe files to play games. In our case a CD/DVD is not required to play but an internet connection is.

I imagine that a cracked .exe that does not require the user to be logged in and online is probably in violation of Ubi's fair use policies (or whatever you want to call them) it might be a necessity for people without internet access to play the game they purchased legally and potentially unknowingly that it requires a permanet internet connection to play. Really you can't fault them for wanting a cracked .exe.

I wont bore you with the rest of what I was going to post about how Ubi's U-play is a brilliant ploy for data mining but I thought I'd interject to say that cracking exe files is not illegal, the distribution of the game is however and that there are legal uses for cracked .exe files and that it's bad that people associate cracked .exe's with illegal activities or downloads.

:arrgh!:

[Onkel Neal]

It's not like I haven't heard this before. We all have legal copies of the games, sure.

[longam]

And the point was it s allows other to run the game without purchasing it.

[jerm138]

It's simply a "fixed exe", just like any other NoCD patch for virtually every other game floating around. Cracked and released by the usual suspects that do alot of the cracking.

As tempting as it sounds to buy it now that it has been "fixed" by a 3rd party, I still can't bring myself to do that.

I'll wait for UBI to "fix" it themselves, or at least steal the "fix" from the pirates and re-distribute it like they did with Rainbow Six Vegas 2.

[Kresge]

Neal's been listening to the same banter on this issue for over a decade. I'm sure nobody is going to crack a long standing policy at Subsim.

Find something more productive to bicker about :yawn:

[UrPeaceKeeper]

If you are implying that I dont have a legal copy I'd gladly take a picture of my D2D account page that shows that I did indeed purchase the game.

As much as I hate DRM I wouldnt be here if I didnt purchase my games. I used to when I was younger, do stupid stuff involving downloading games, I have since given up that habbit (as it directly interferes with my goal of becoming a law enforcement officer) and now purchase all of my games... Much to my dismay as it seems modern video games are incapable of being worth the cost... thats another rant for another day.

Longam, my point is that is also allows those of us who collect game disks to play the game without risking damage to our investments (not that I collect game disks). It also allows people without internet to play a game they purchased, potentially without knowing the permanet required internet connection. This is exactly why I said it's a shame that cracking .exe's is associated with illegal activities. Possible, yes, yes it is, illegal, not cracking itself.

I'm going to shut up before I get, as you guys call it, keelhauling? (Banned).

[KiwiVenge]

I'm going to shut up before I get, as you guys call it, keelhauling? (Banned).

That must of been very unpleasant. Dragged around the bottom of a ship by rope over all the barnacles and other assorted sharp objects that have attached themselves to a hull.

[gutted]

I can recite about 10 reasons why i might or might not crack a game.. even if i own a legitamate copy. But at the end of the day, when i install the game and hit yes on the EULA it's still illegal.

So lets respect neal's wishes.

Don't ask.. don't tell.

[jwilliams]

This is exactly why I said it's a shame that cracking .exe's is associated with illegal activities. Possible, yes, yes it is, illegal, not cracking itself.

I'm going to shut up before I get, as you guys call it, keelhauling? (Banned).

Cracking is the circumvention of DRM. Circumventing DRM is illegal. So therefore Cracking is illigal.

Digital rights management systems have received some international legal backing by implementation of the 1996 WIPO Copyright Treaty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WIPO_Copyright_Treaty) (WCT). Article 11 of the Treaty requires nations party to the treaties to enact laws against DRM circumvention.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management

[FIREWALL]

For Christs sake... It's right on the front of the game case.

A permanent internet connection is required to play the game.

If their too ignorant to read that, then their too ignorant to grasp the game.

[NeonSamurai]

I can recite about 10 reasons why i might or might not crack a game.. even if i own a legitamate copy. But at the end of the day, when i install the game and hit yes on the EULA it's still illegal.

So lets respect neal's wishes.

Don't ask.. don't tell.

All I am going to say is that in several countries, much that is within EULAs aren't worth spit legally. In general the legality of those agreements is largely untested. In other areas they try to make you sign away rights that can't actually be signed away, those rights override any agreement. Of course this varies country to country.

Anyhow none of that matters here, at best only US law applies due to server location, and Neal's rules are pretty much law here if you want to keep being a member in good standing.

Again, it is not our problem what you do on your computer, we just don't want to know about it.

[Reece]

No, it is the real deal. It is cracked. It failed. NEEEEXT!Everyone PM Dowly!!:D

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

If these rumors are true, perhaps it will be the start of Ubisoft abandoning this protection scheme. Stranger things have happened. It could be a good thing in the long run. Happier players and possibly a new audience that was previously put off may pick up the game. No one seemingly has embraced this DRM protection method. If anything, I believe it has alienated the developers from their target audience to some extent. At least, that's the way I see if so far. It will be interesting to see how this plays out over time.

[Adlerson]

It took a hacker group 25 hours from the release of the game til it was hacked to bypass the idiotic always-connected DRM from Ubisoft.
We tried to tell Ubi this the entire time; This new scheme will inconvenience loyal, adult customers, and will do nothing to stop the pirates.

Source:
http://www.n4g.com/pc/News-485662.aspx

Worst part is, Ubi won't change course anytime soon, only because it would entail them admitting they were wrong.

Good going Ubi!

[rss0900]

Indeed your right it's out and confirmed now. I'd say haha at Ubi - but I'm the one suffering now and stuck with DRM. Shame on me for buying retail :down:

[malkuth74]

If these rumors are true, perhaps it will be the start of Ubisoft abandoning this protection scheme. Stranger things have happened. It could be a good thing in the long run. Happier players and possibly a new audience that was previously put off may pick up the game. No one seemingly has embraced this DRM protection method. If anything, I believe it has alienated the developers from their target audience to some extent. At least, that's the way I see if so far. It will be interesting to see how this plays out over time.


No they will just come up with something more silly.. Like you have to call a UBI rep everytime you start up your game to get the code to actually start up the game.

Someone they have in the higher ups is either A mole for some other company feeding them this garbage. Or is just a total...... Bad word.

[FIREWALL]

If these rumors are true, perhaps it will be the start of Ubisoft abandoning this protection scheme. Stranger things have happened. It could be a good thing in the long run. Happier players and possibly a new audience that was previously put off may pick up the game. No one seemingly has embraced this DRM protection method. If anything, I believe it has alienated the developers from their target audience to some extent. At least, that's the way I see if so far. It will be interesting to see how this plays out over time.

That's a sensible way of looking at it. :up:

The game hasn't even arrived at all peoples yet. I read somewhere 3-12 for New Zealand.

Our modders are just now for the most part getting their hands on it.
Just imagine a week from now !!!

[frenema]

It took a hacker group 25 hours from the release of the game til it was hacked to bypass the idiotic always-connected DRM from Ubisoft.
We tried to tell Ubi this the entire time; This new scheme will inconvenience loyal, adult customers, and will do nothing to stop the pirates.

Source:
http://www.n4g.com/pc/News-485662.aspx

Worst part is, Ubi won't change course anytime soon, only because it would entail them admitting they were wrong.

Good going Ubi!

Ubisoft screwed up big time...

http://www.kianming.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/epic-fail2.jpg

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

I don't think this protection scheme was thought up by the developers. I'm sure of this. This DRM decision absolutely sounds like a "suit" idea to me. Overall, the software companies seem to be at war. A war of profits. How to keep the profits flowing. How to protect this product from illegal distribution. I think we can understand this ideology even though the execution of the protection scheme was dreadful. We can respect them for trying but I wouldn't laugh at their failure. The truth is, we don't want Ubisoft to fail, if they do this series could be headed for the chopping block along with several others. None of us would be laughing then.

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

No they will just come up with something more silly.. Like you have to call a UBI rep everytime you start up your game to get the code to actually start up the game.

Someone they have in the higher ups is either A mole for some other company feeding them this garbage. Or is just a total...... Bad word.

LOL! Isnt' that the truth! All kidding aside, they could have used a protection scheme like the Grand Theft Auto 4 PC game used. From what I can recall, the system deployed no less than 5 processes that needed to be running in the background at all times in order for the game to run. I don't know if anyone ever circumvented this protection scheme but it seemed to be very effective in the weeks following launch of the product.

[malkuth74]

Still denying it on the Official Forums. I'm not involved in the topic just keeping an eye on it.

*************************
quote:
Originally posted by GakunGak:
Guys, let me congratulate you for buying this game and staying online the whole time while others are playing drm-free...
Also, congratz for supporting this behavior imposed to you by corporate money chasers...
1.1 got bypassed also not too long ago..
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif


As I explained in PT, your apparent evidence was a link to a forum of people complaining they cant get the so called crack to work.

Now as I've said there's nothing to suggest a crack at this time, I've received some file links from others which I've passed on, however I suspect this will turn out to be the same as AC2 earlier in the week.

Until there's firm evidence to the contrary please stop claiming people are playing this game without DRM.

quote:
Originally posted by Shootist:
That wasn't a link


It was information intended to help members find an apparent pirate which is not permitted.

[Reece]

Amazingly quick weren't they!!:har: wake up UBI! your only hurting legitimate owners with this OSP crap!:nope:
Edit: Unless it doesn't actually work, time will tell!!:hmmm:

[tater]

:har:

[frenema]

I don't think this protection scheme was thought up by the developers. I'm sure of this. This DRM decision absolutely sounds like a "suit" idea to me. Overall, the software companies seem to be at war. A war of profits. How to keep the profits flowing. How to protect this product from illegal distribution. I think we can understand this ideology even though the execution of the protection scheme was dreadful. We can respect them for trying but I wouldn't laugh at their failure. The truth is, we don't want Ubisoft to fail, if they do this series could be headed for the chopping block along with several others. None of us would be laughing then.

I'm sorry, but it should have been a known fact to them that the whole thing was ridiculous and impossible from the beginning. A billion dollar company like Ubisoft is not going to 'fail' because of pirates. Why? Because smaller companies like Paradox Interactive thrive despite not having ANY protection on their games (not even serial keys) because they focus on releasing quality games that are affordable rather than developing monstrous copy right protection. So, if Ubisoft ever fails their SH series, it will be because they rush out beta quality games full of bugs, not because of piracy. If anything, we can always go back to SH3 (which, BTW, I bought in case you're wondering). No need to feel obligated to 'support' Ubisoft.

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

I've been tooling around a little online and the number of posts across the web are surfacing regarding this topic. Perhaps Ubisoft will be watching closely to ascertain just how pointless the protection scheme is. (If it truly has been defeated) Let's try and think like a corporate executive for a minute. I think the question they have to be asking is: Is it better to alienate the gamers out there who are willing to pay for your product VS. Trying to take on the world of hackers out there bent on stealing your product? I think you have to pick a side. My personal opinion would side with the gamers. I want my product to end up in the hands of the target audience I had in mind. Those are the folks who are willing to buy the product outright. Simulation gamers are loyal and if you give them a stellar product you can win them over for life. I hope Ubisoft is watching and taking notes here.

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

I'm sorry, but it should have been a known fact to them that the whole thing was ridiculous and impossible from the beginning. A billion dollar company like Ubisoft is not going to 'fail' because of pirates. Why? Because smaller companies like Paradox Interactive thrive despite not having ANY protection on their games (not even serial keys) because they focus on releasing quality games that are affordable rather than developing monstrous copy right protection. So, if Ubisoft ever fails their SH series, it will be because they rush out beta quality games full of bugs, not because of piracy. If anything, we can always go back to SH3 (which, BTW, I bought in case you're wondering). No need to feel obligated to 'support' Ubisoft.

Wait a second.....not fail because of pirates? I have to disagree with you there. You know, if they take a big enough financial beating with their line of PC games, I wouldn't doubt that they will pull out of the PC game market. I mean you need to take into account financials. You ever meet a corporate executive before? Money is the game. No money to be made is the end of the line. If Ubisoft abandons PC gaming, no doubt they will continue with a different line of games for the consoles. That would make more sense financially. Harder to steal outright and almost impossible to crack.

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

I'm sorry, but it should have been a known fact to them that the whole thing was ridiculous and impossible from the beginning. A billion dollar company like Ubisoft is not going to 'fail' because of pirates. Why? Because smaller companies like Paradox Interactive thrive despite not having ANY protection on their games (not even serial keys) because they focus on releasing quality games that are affordable rather than developing monstrous copy right protection. So, if Ubisoft ever fails their SH series, it will be because they rush out beta quality games full of bugs, not because of piracy. If anything, we can always go back to SH3 (which, BTW, I bought in case you're wondering). No need to feel obligated to 'support' Ubisoft.

Ubisoft hasn't been releasing quality games? An entire series of submarine simulators that have been wildly successful. Those weren't quality? I didn't like Assassins Creed personally but it didn't stop them from selling literally millions of copies of the product. One game that may contain some bugs shouldn't be their downfall. So, in that regard, I disagree with you. Ubisoft has released great games and their quality has been top notch as well. Want some proof? How long have you been playing Silent Hunter 3? You seem like a guy who has been playing some time. If the quality and affordability wasn't there, would you still be playing this game now? The title is several years old but it's still fun and if you find it at a bargain bin it's a great value. So, quality and affordability.

[Webster]

Still denying it on the Official Forums.

not surprising lol, they have been systematicly deleting all posts with any hint of concerns about the game. they only want "OMG sh5 rules" threads or they delete them.

[tater]

No one is still playing any SH as they bought it, minus mods they are mediocre.

If the choice is no PC games from Ubi, vs having to buy crap that requires hundreds of hours of my time to fix (plus others), AND useless, annoying DRM schemes into the bargain... I'll play something else, thanks very much.

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

I'm sorry, but it should have been a known fact to them that the whole thing was ridiculous and impossible from the beginning. A billion dollar company like Ubisoft is not going to 'fail' because of pirates. Why? Because smaller companies like Paradox Interactive thrive despite not having ANY protection on their games (not even serial keys) because they focus on releasing quality games that are affordable rather than developing monstrous copy right protection. So, if Ubisoft ever fails their SH series, it will be because they rush out beta quality games full of bugs, not because of piracy. If anything, we can always go back to SH3 (which, BTW, I bought in case you're wondering). No need to feel obligated to 'support' Ubisoft.

Assassins Creed was fun to a point. It was absolutely a quality product and at roughly $60, it was affordable. It had tons of replay value as well if you are an easter egg zombie who hunts down all of the collectibles. I didn't like the game personally but no question it was a well thought out product. Very well done. I'm not on the side of corporate but I do understand to a point how they operate. It's money my friend, money! Show me the money! That's the game they know how to play.

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

No one is still playing any SH as they bought it, minus mods they are mediocre.

If the choice is no PC games from Ubi, vs having to buy crap that requires hundreds of hours of my time to fix (plus others), AND useless, annoying DRM schemes into the bargain... I'll play something else, thanks very much.

I am. I have the retail box version of Silent Hunter 3 installed on my PC. I think most call it the vanilla version. As for bugs, that's to be expected. Remember Silent Hunter 4 crashing to the desktop when you pressed the "A" key? Ouch! They finally fixed it via patches but it was absolutely horrid to be in the retail release. Give them some time, they will work out the issues. I have no doubts that this is the avenue they will pursue. Play something else? Like what? Batman Arkham Asylum? You are addicted to simulators and we all know it. Cool off, fly a few laps with your flight simulator and think about it.

[kiwi_2005]

Please choose 1 solution:

#1 Buy the game. Do what you have to do. Smile and feel the freedom.

#2 Buy the game. Don't do the evil thing. cry and moan and put up anti ubisoft F U threads.

DRM is for pussies.

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1621/originaldn.jpg

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

I'm sorry, but it should have been a known fact to them that the whole thing was ridiculous and impossible from the beginning. A billion dollar company like Ubisoft is not going to 'fail' because of pirates. Why? Because smaller companies like Paradox Interactive thrive despite not having ANY protection on their games (not even serial keys) because they focus on releasing quality games that are affordable rather than developing monstrous copy right protection. So, if Ubisoft ever fails their SH series, it will be because they rush out beta quality games full of bugs, not because of piracy. If anything, we can always go back to SH3 (which, BTW, I bought in case you're wondering). No need to feel obligated to 'support' Ubisoft.

Maybe this was a known fact to them, I don't know. They can't be that inept so they must have at least had a clue. Maybe they decided on this instead of another scheme. I mean, it's really tough to say one way or the other. I can tell you this....there is no way that the product was going to hit the market with no protection scheme at all. That much I know for certain.

[tater]

I am. I have the retail box version of Silent Hunter 3 installed on my PC. I think most call it the vanilla version. As for bugs, that's to be expected. Remember Silent Hunter 4 crashing to the desktop when you pressed the "A" key? Ouch! They finally fixed it via patches but it was absolutely horrid to be in the retail release. Give them some time, they will work out the issues. I have no doubts that this is the avenue they will pursue. Play something else? Like what? Batman Arkham Asylum? You are addicted to simulators and we all know it. Cool off, fly a few laps with your flight simulator and think about it.

It's been a funny constant in the last couple weeks that EVERY shill for ubi/drm/etc has a low post count.

"I play loads of games with online DRM, and I LOVE THEM!"

LOL.

I feel sorry for you if you play stock SH4.

As for simulators, I play (modded, now) Il-2. BTW, vanilla SH3/4/5 are not simulators, unless you consider "not simulating reality or history," "simulation."

[Onkel Neal]

If it fails, I would be calling for Ubisoft to remove the DRM for people who bought the game.

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

It's been a funny constant in the last couple weeks that EVERY shill for ubi/drm/etc has a low post count.

"I play loads of games with online DRM, and I LOVE THEM!"

LOL.

I feel sorry for you if you play stock SH4.

As for simulators, I play (modded, now) Il-2. BTW, vanilla SH3/4/5 are not simulators, unless you consider "not simulating reality or history," "simulation."

Those are the folks that we don't hear from, those that actually play and the DRM is active. Many of the posts are from players who don't even have the game. Why? They are boycotting it! So, they don't really have any idea that the DRM really isn't that bad. It's not something you even notice. I had few DRM games as well and from what I can recall, it really wasn't a big deal.

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

If it fails, I would be calling for Ubisoft to remove the DRM for people who bought the game.

You bet. I mean, why continue to make your target audience suffer? They bought it outright so let them play. No sense in keeping an eye on them anymore.

[tater]

Those are the folks that we don't hear from, those that actually play and the DRM is active. Many of the posts are from players who don't even have the game. Why? They are boycotting it! So, they don't really have any idea that the DRM really isn't that bad. It's not something you even notice. I had few DRM games as well and from what I can recall, it really wasn't a big deal.

I doubt it would be a big deal 99.9999% of the time.

The first time I had an hour to play and the servers were toast, or my ISP had a hiccup, I'd be livid, though.

100% online is simply not needed (demonstrably so NOW) for any reason they've supplied.

Maybe with some decent value added it might be.

[frenema]

Wait a second.....not fail because of pirates? I have to disagree with you there. You know, if they take a big enough financial beating with their line of PC games, I wouldn't doubt that they will pull out of the PC game market. I mean you need to take into account financials. You ever meet a corporate executive before? Money is the game. No money to be made is the end of the line. If Ubisoft abandons PC gaming, no doubt they will continue with a different line of games for the consoles. That would make more sense financially. Harder to steal outright and almost impossible to crack.
Yes, pirates caused the initial problem. But Ubisoft failed with their response.
PC games are not going anywhere. If it was really that serious, they would have all fled to consoles long time ago. Look up Paradox Interactive which I mentioned as a company that is doing well despite not putting up any copy protection.

Ubisoft hasn't been releasing quality games? An entire series of submarine simulators that have been wildly successful. Those weren't quality? I didn't like Assassins Creed personally but it didn't stop them from selling literally millions of copies of the product. One game that may contain some bugs shouldn't be their downfall. So, in that regard, I disagree with you. Ubisoft has released great games and their quality has been top notch as well. Want some proof? How long have you been playing Silent Hunter 3? You seem like a guy who has been playing some time. If the quality and affordability wasn't there, would you still be playing this game now? The title is several years old but it's still fun and if you find it at a bargain bin it's a great value. So, quality and affordability.
It is a known fact that Ubisoft, along with other companies, have adopted the practice of rushing releases and making games more frequently with low quality to boost profits. Silent hunter 3 was the peak of the series, it's been all downhill since. Just compare how much time went into 3 in comparison with 5.

Actually, I haven't played SH3 in a LONG time. I disappeared from this forums for quite some time until SH5 got me excited recently, but looks like I'm not getting the game anyway... And let's not forget that it was the modders who made the game what it is now: a classic.

Assassins Creed was fun to a point. It was absolutely a quality product and at roughly $60, it was affordable. It had tons of replay value as well if you are an easter egg zombie who hunts down all of the collectibles. I didn't like the game personally but no question it was a well thought out product. Very well done. I'm not on the side of corporate but I do understand to a point how they operate. It's money my friend, money! Show me the money! That's the game they know how to play.
It'd be interesting to know how well AC1 did in terms of PC sales. If it sold well, then it should be a proof that quality games sell well despite piracy.

[Engine]

Hi folks... I don't post here often but when Steam notified me that SH5 was released I immediately popped over here to find out the lowdown on the DRM scheme. And I got it; the game's been cracked ridiculously fast.

I still refuse to buy SH5, which is a shame, because I fell in love with SH3 and if this DRM stuff hadn't happened I'd have paid full price on Day 1 for it. But not now. Never will I support an entertainment company that asks me to pay to be screwed.

The sad thing is I think there are no winners. There's no hate on my end for Ubi, just empathy for the devs who wanted to make a great game and had this DRM stuff overshadow their accomplishments and keep people like me from playing the product of their hard work.

I get screwed as a paying customer, Ubi gets screwed because I won't buy their products. They brought it on themselves, and it's just depressing all the way around.

Edit: Wow, I just noticed that this is my first post. After reading hundreds of SH3 threads and downloading many mods, I must have felt like I'd been a part of the community. Well... Hi Subsim! I'm just sorry my first post was about how I wouldn't be buying a new sub sim...

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

Personally, I want to know what went into the decision of DRM. Especially on this title. That really doesn't make sense to me. We are talking about sub simmers, right? I'm thinking about the demographics on that type of audience. Age range between perhaps mid to late twenties up to possibly the mid fifties. These are the people who you think are going to pirate your game? You think there is a large enough audience? I would have loved to be a fly on the wall while that conversation was taking place. Assassins Creed and so forth I can understand the use of DRM technology but a submarine simulator? Really? Sometimes its hard to figure out what corporate may decide. It really does make you scratch your head. I can tell you from my own personal experience, some friends of mine don't like simulators. They are avid gamers but not a game like this. I showed it to them, they enjoyed the torpedo impacts and so forth but didn't like the hunt. It just isn't their cup of tea. I on the other hand, love the hunt and the torpedo hitting a target is icing on the cake. We are a rare breed of gamers. Dedicated and loyal, most gamers aren't that way. They jump from one action game in anticipation of the next and so on and so forth. Not a ton or loyalty there. One rare exception could be the Call of Duty series. There is some loyalty there as well.

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

Yes, pirates caused the initial problem. But Ubisoft failed with their response.
PC games are not going anywhere. If it was really that serious, they would have all fled to consoles long time ago. Look up Paradox Interactive which I mentioned as a company that is doing well despite not putting up any copy protection.


It is a known fact that Ubisoft, along with other companies, have adopted the practice of rushing releases and making games more frequently with low quality to boost profits. Silent hunter 3 was the peak of the series, it's been all downhill since. Just compare how much time went into 3 in comparison with 5.

Actually, I haven't played SH3 in a LONG time. I disappeared from this forums for quite some time until SH5 got me excited recently, but looks like I'm not getting the game anyway... And let's not forget that it was the modders who made the game what it is now: a classic.


It'd be interesting to know how well AC1 did in terms of PC sales. If it sold well, then it should be a proof that quality games sell well despite piracy.


Perhaps the large gap in time between releases has to do with development. We see this often when Microsoft releases a new operating system. Several years apart. Has to be development slowing things down because it can't be about the money. Not at Microsoft, they don't have an issue with money that's for sure.

[Reece]

Welcome to Subsim Engine!:up:

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

Who is Paradox Interactive? Do they even have any titles that hackers would want to rip off?

[frenema]

Personally, I want to know what went into the decision of DRM. Especially on this title. That really doesn't make sense to me. We are talking about sub simmers, right? I'm thinking about the demographics on that type of audience. Age range between perhaps mid to late twenties up to possibly the mid fifties. These are the people who you think are going to pirate your game? You think there is a large enough audience? I would have loved to be a fly on the wall while that conversation was taking place. Assassins Creed and so forth I can understand the use of DRM technology but a submarine simulator? Really? Sometimes its hard to figure out what corporate may decide. It really does make you scratch your head. I can tell you from my own personal experience, some friends of mine don't like simulators. They are avid gamers but not a game like this. I showed it to them, they enjoyed the torpedo impacts and so forth but didn't like the hunt. It just isn't their cup of tea. I on the other hand, love the hunt and the torpedo hitting a target is icing on the cake. We are a rare breed of gamers. Dedicated and loyal, most gamers aren't that way. They jump from one action game in anticipation of the next and so on and so forth. Not a ton or loyalty there. One rare exception could be the Call of Duty series. There is some loyalty there as well.

I guess they thought their OSP was invincible and said "why not"?

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

Yes, pirates caused the initial problem. But Ubisoft failed with their response.
PC games are not going anywhere. If it was really that serious, they would have all fled to consoles long time ago. Look up Paradox Interactive which I mentioned as a company that is doing well despite not putting up any copy protection.

It is a known fact that Ubisoft, along with other companies, have adopted the practice of rushing releases and making games more frequently with low quality to boost profits. Silent hunter 3 was the peak of the series, it's been all downhill since. Just compare how much time went into 3 in comparison with 5.

Actually, I haven't played SH3 in a LONG time. I disappeared from this forums for quite some time until SH5 got me excited recently, but looks like I'm not getting the game anyway... And let's not forget that it was the modders who made the game what it is now: a classic.


It'd be interesting to know how well AC1 did in terms of PC sales. If it sold well, then it should be a proof that quality games sell well despite piracy.

Can you cite any sources? How do you know it's a well known fact? The Silent Hunter series did not go downhill after SH3. I think the reason why Silent Hunter 4 didn't do as well as 3 is wrapped up on the subject matter. IE: Not commanding a German submarine. I think that put some people off a little bit. Ubisoft should have stuck to the German campaign instead of focusing on the war with Japan and the US. The German conflict was far more interesting. On a side note, you do understand that modders wouldn't have had anything to work with if Ubisoft didn't give us the Silent Hunter series. Modders didn't make that game, they improved it. It is a classic even out of the box.

[frenema]

Who is Paradox Interactive? Do they even have any titles that hackers would want to rip off?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_Interactive

They're not as big as Ubisoft, but they have their tight niche market in which they have loyal fans and usually sell millions of copies per titles (that's what they say; I don't have exact figures, but I'm guessing they sell a lot more than SH series).

As mentioned before, they have ZERO copy protection, yet sell very well despite having their games pirated faster than they can put out on the market.

[Feuer Frei!]

It's a well-known thought that SH5 was the "scape goat" or "guinea pig" for DRM...
before the release of AC2...and other games...
actually, i think it's more than a thought, seems pretty much the real motif...
maybe, just maybe, if SH5 is just a trial run for DRM, we may see the removal in future games...
certainly via patch at minimum....
:06:

[tater]

Can you cite any sources? How do you know it's a well known fact? The Silent Hunter series did not go downhill after SH3. I think the reason why Silent Hunter 4 didn't do as well as 3 is wrapped up on the subject matter. IE: Not commanding a German submarine. I think that put some people off a little bit. Ubisoft should have stuck to the German campaign instead of focusing on the war with Japan and the US. The German conflict was far more interesting. On a side note, you do understand that modders wouldn't have had anything to work with if Ubisoft didn't give us the Silent Hunter series. Modders didn't make that game, they improved it. It is a classic even out of the box.

Yeah, 'cause trying to save the 3d Reich isn't off-putting like defeating expansionist, murderous empires is.

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

I guess they thought their OSP was invincible and said "why not"?

Look, these folks at Ubisoft, they are not stupid. I highly doubt they thought this DRM thing was invincible. That would just be complete lunacy. There is no way they believed that. I mean, let's not treat these guys like they can't tie their own shoelaces. They run a multi-billion dollar corporation, the place can't be full of inept idiots. These are tech guys, they know what they are doing and what they are up against. I have no doubts about this.

[tater]

Look, these folks at Ubisoft, they are not stupid. I highly doubt they thought this DRM thing was invincible. That would just be complete lunacy. There is no way they believed that. I mean, let's not treat these guys like they can't tie their own shoelaces. They run a multi-billion dollar corporation, the place can't be full of inept idiots. These are tech guys, they know what they are doing and what they are up against. I have no doubts about this.

ROFLMAO.

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

Yeah, 'cause trying to save the 3d Reich isn't off-putting like defeating expansionist, murderous empires is.

Nah. I think it was more about sticking it to the British. Many countries still have a beef unofficially with the Great Britain. They were imperialistic conquerors and many people are still bitter about it in one way or another. So, being in a German submarine allowed you to even the score a bit. If your beef was with the Americans, you get to target them later on in the campaign and stick it to those greedy, overzealous scumbags as well. Every nation's ships could potentially be sent to Davey Jone's Locker. With Silent Hunter 4, it was really just the Americans and the Japanese.

[frenema]

Can you cite any sources? How do you know it's a well known fact? The Silent Hunter series did not go downhill after SH3. I think the reason why Silent Hunter 4 didn't do as well as 3 is wrapped up on the subject matter. IE: Not commanding a German submarine. I think that put some people off a little bit. Ubisoft should have stuck to the German campaign instead of focusing on the war with Japan and the US. The German conflict was far more interesting. On a side note, you do understand that modders wouldn't have had anything to work with if Ubisoft didn't give us the Silent Hunter series. Modders didn't make that game, they improved it. It is a classic even out of the box.

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/02/15/ubisoft-may-release-franchise-titles-every-12-18-months/

I don't have to cite sources for the quality of the games as it is apparent from when they first came out. Modders should be making different variables and extras in gameplay, not developing the game to what it should have been.

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

ROFLMAO.

You like that huh? Well, I mean it's just unreal the statements people make sometimes. So the DRM fell apart and it's doesn't work. Does that mean the entire company staff and Ubisoft is made up of half wits? Sure, we could have told these balding, suit wearing, pen pushing, eyeglass toting trolls that make these decisions to incorporate the DRM into the software was senseless. I'm sure they knew this in advance and despite the begging, they would have very likely did it anyway.

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/02/15/ubisoft-may-release-franchise-titles-every-12-18-months/

I don't have to cite sources for the quality of the games as it is apparent from when they first came out. Modders should be making different variables and extras in gameplay, not developing the game to what it should have been.

Okay....well....then if you have no sources, don't call them facts. It's not a fact, it's your opinion. Opinions are fine but when they suddenly become facts we have a problem.

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

How are bugs and so forth when a product is first released somehow unacceptable? How can a company or a team of developers improve if nothing is ever wrong with any of their products? You can buy a car and have bugs with it....I mean.....commercial aircraft sometimes have bugs but the companies that built them fix them when this occurs. Why is it not okay when it's a software company?

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

I bought a defective Orek vacuum cleaner last year. Despite sending it back, I still had issues with it. The on and off switch was messed up as well. Who in their right mind sends out a vacuum that can't be turned on and off? Well, eventually, I finally got the bugs worked out and the thing works fine. Was that not the correct course of action? Should I get all nuts and hunt down David Orek and make him feel some pain? The guy is in his 70's, I'm sure he's in enough pain. Ultimately, the guys who built this damn thing helped me out and in the end I was happy. Err...as happy as I can be with a vacuum cleaner. It doesn't provide much entertainment but it does what it was designed to do. Do you doubt that this is not the same course of action Ubisoft is going to take with this product?

[jwilliams]

How are bugs and so forth when a product is first released somehow unacceptable? How can a company or a team of developers improve if nothing is ever wrong with any of their products? You can buy a car and have bugs with it....I mean.....commercial aircraft sometimes have bugs but the companies that built them fix them when this occurs. Why is it not okay when it's a software company?


You wouldnt accept a company to release a car that you couldnt steer. or who's breaks didnt work etc.

a few bugs are fine as long as they dont break the game....

in 25 years of gaming i hve not seen as many bugs in a release. (i may have been lucky. but out of over 300 games, SH series is the most bugged games ive ever bought).

[frenema]

Okay....well....then if you have no sources, don't call them facts. It's not a fact, it's your opinion. Opinions are fine but when they suddenly become facts we have a problem.

I promise I'm not Richard Mitchell who wrote the article I posted with the link. :yep:
If a managing director of the game suggests that they are planning to make games on a frequent and constant basis of 12~16 months, it's not my opinion. And if they make games that frequently in a set time without taking the actual development into account, the quality is bound to suffer. And how the hell am I supposed to cite sources for quality of games? How about you cite me sources first to prove me otherwise?

Look, these folks at Ubisoft, they are not stupid. I highly doubt they thought this DRM thing was invincible. That would just be complete lunacy. There is no way they believed that. I mean, let's not treat these guys like they can't tie their own shoelaces. They run a multi-billion dollar corporation, the place can't be full of inept idiots. These are tech guys, they know what they are doing and what they are up against. I have no doubts about this.
Whoever made the decision was probably someone up in the office concerned with sales, not a 'tech guy'.

So if they knew that it wasn't going to work, what was the logic behind pushing it through despite the obvious community backlash? Where's the logic behind that?

[jwilliams]

I bought a defective Orek vacuum cleaner last year. Despite sending it back, I still had issues with it. The on and off switch was messed up as well. Who in their right mind sends out a vacuum that can't be turned on and off? Well, eventually, I finally got the bugs worked out and the thing works fine. Was that not the correct course of action? Should I get all nuts and hunt down David Orek and make him feel some pain? The guy is in his 70's, I'm sure he's in enough pain. Ultimately, the guys who built this damn thing helped me out and in the end I was happy. Err...as happy as I can be with a vacuum cleaner. It doesn't provide much entertainment but it does what it was designed to do. Do you doubt that this is not the same course of action Ubisoft is going to take with this product?

I would imagine the only a few of that model vacuum cleaner had a doggy switch, not the whole release.

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

You wouldnt accept a company to release a car that you couldnt steer. or who's breaks didnt work etc.

a few bugs are fine as long as they dont break the game....

in 25 years of gaming i hve not seen as many bugs in a release. (i may have been lucky. but out of over 300 games, SH series is the most bugged games ive ever bought).

Really? Have you heard of a company named Toyota? I don't want to bring up current events but they have some real product problems right now. Some of their vehicles have been reported to accelerate to speeds up to and over 100MPH without the driver's consent. Kinda scary when you can't control the thing. Is that not a game breaker? Again, why do we essentially want to execute the game makers but everyone else who builds buggy products get a pass? Some odd double standard at work here.

[tater]

How are bugs and so forth when a product is first released somehow unacceptable? How can a company or a team of developers improve if nothing is ever wrong with any of their products? You can buy a car and have bugs with it....I mean.....commercial aircraft sometimes have bugs but the companies that built them fix them when this occurs. Why is it not okay when it's a software company?

Only in software is knowingly shipping unfinished, broken product acceptable.

Maybe new music should all be released as the first, unedited take in the studio---at some point in the future you MIGHT get a fixed version with all the instruments playing---that or music "modders" can engineer it themselves, and make it sound better!

Take the SH4 campaign out of the box. Abysmal.

A rushed, cut and paste job (trust me, I've been over every single waypoint of it personally).

Or damage models that allow the sub to ram everything to death, etc, ad nauseum.

This is the norm for software now. Thanks microsoft!

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

I would imagine the only a few of that model vacuum cleaner had a doggy switch, not the whole release.

I really have no idea what was wrong with it. I'm glad it all worked out but it really was driving me nuts for awhile. Same with Silent Hunter 5! It's driving me a little nuts but I'm confident the folks who built the thing will give us a hand.

[tater]

Really? Have you heard of a company named Toyota? I don't want to bring up current events but they have some real product problems right now. Some of their vehicles have been reported to accelerate to speeds up to and over 100MPH without the driver's consent. Kinda scary when you can't control the thing. Is that not a game breaker? Again, why do we essentially want to execute the game makers but everyone else who builds buggy products get a pass? Some odd double standard at work here.

Who pays you to type this?

Car companies do this and people DIE, huge difference---and Congressional investigations into the bargain.

This is the NORM for the software industry. It;s not all problems from every person having a unique PC, much is simply SLOPPY stuff the devs have 100% control over (like, for example in SH4 the entire campaign).

[jwilliams]

Really? Have you heard of a company named Toyota? I don't want to bring up current events but they have some real product problems right now. Some of their vehicles have been reported to accelerate to speeds up to and over 100MPH without the driver's consent. Kinda scary when you can't control the thing. Is that not a game breaker? Again, why do we essentially want to execute the game makers but everyone else who builds buggy products get a pass? Some odd double standard at work here.

That was exactly my point.... (you walked right into it).

Now look at toyota and suziki, and the amount of trouble there in.

owner of toyota broke down in tears in an interview.

Ubisoft should be in tears, with the poor quality of SH5

[CCIP]

Ok, guys, time out :timeout:

I think it's safe to say this debate is not going anywhere. Ubi snafu'd the release. That's the reality. Noone's gonna un-release it now. Let's acknowledge that it's unquestionably bad and move on to something else. And wait for the game to get fixed.

[frenema]

*removed because the Mod said stop*

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

Only in software is knowingly shipping unfinished, broken product acceptable.

Maybe new music should all be released as the first, unedited take in the studio---at some point in the future you MIGHT get a fixed version with all the instruments playing---that or music "modders" can engineer it themselves, and make it sound better!

Take the SH4 campaign out of the box. Abysmal.

A rushed, cut and paste job (trust me, I've been over every single waypoint of it personally).

Or damage models that allow the sub to ram everything to death, etc, ad nauseum.

This is the norm for software now. Thanks microsoft!

What you are saying is valid, however, there are things that may or may not have crossed your mind. For example, are you employed in the gaming industry? Can you and your pals whip up a video game in 2 years time with your current financials and support? I mean there is so much we don't know about exactly how these products are developed. These are only men after all, they are not machines over there at Ubisoft. You want Terminator style cybernetic organisms building your games so they will be perfect? How many lines of code do you think are in any of these games? 7 million, ten million, more than that? It's very difficult to think of everything. I like to complain when I need to but let's have some realistic expectations. So it's buggy, and...there is a very short list of products that don't have bugs straight off the line. Rovers we send to Mars are missing most of their software, they upload it while the thing is in route to the Martian surface.

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

He said: "You wouldnt accept a company to release a car that you couldnt steer. or who's breaks didnt work etc." Not whether it is likely to happen or not to other companies.

Toyota is suffering big time as they are forced to recall all their defective models, not to mention the president had to apologize. Does the software company ever have to do this for their buggy releases? No, they just get away with it all the time.

Thanks. I read that wrong. Quick! Look at me, look at me! I work for Ubisoft! I can't read, I can't tie my own shoelaces and I release defective products! I have a ton of traps set for my audience, especially the sub simmers. Take this latest product for example, it's called Silent Hunter 5. Well, we came up with this great idea to make everyone angry so we came up with this genius DRM thing. It gets better, if for some reason they don't get angry, we insure they become furious when they discover all the bugs in it! Ha! Ha! Ha!

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

Ok, guys, time out :timeout:

I think it's safe to say this debate is not going anywhere. Ubi snafu'd the release. That's the reality. Noone's gonna un-release it now. Let's acknowledge that it's unquestionably bad and move on to something else. And wait for the game to get fixed.

I don't know how safe it is to say that. I don't think it's really a debate although I was on a debate team. However, when I started losing, I called on the Dark Side of the Force and dispatched my enemy with a patented Darth Vader invisible choke. Got oddly silent afterward. Weird.

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

That was exactly my point.... (you walked right into it).

Now look at toyota and suziki, and the amount of trouble there in.

owner of suziki broke down in tears in an interview.

Ubisoft should be in tears, with the poor quality of SH5

Suzuki? What kind of trouble are they in? How many ways can you mess up a motorcycle and a plastic based piano type keyboard?

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

Who pays you to type this?

Car companies do this and people DIE, huge difference---and Congressional investigations into the bargain.

This is the NORM for the software industry. It;s not all problems from every person having a unique PC, much is simply SLOPPY stuff the devs have 100% control over (like, for example in SH4 the entire campaign).

Who pays me to say this? I can get paid? Who's going to pay me? I wish I had a job that easy to be honest with you. Seems recession proof. I can use a gig like that right now for sure. Recession has body slammed me. So how far away are we from reading a review from Neal? As most of you, I'm really interested in what he thinks about this product.

[jwilliams]

Suzuki? What kind of trouble are they in? How many ways can you mess up a motorcycle and a plastic based piano type keyboard?

Suzuki make cars too
Suzuki Recalls Over 10,000 Cars
link (http://www.autoevolution.com/news/suzuki-recalls-over-10000-cars-in-china-16453.html)

[Webster]

Who pays me to say this? I can get paid? Who's going to pay me? I wish I had a job that easy to be honest with you. Seems recession proof. I can use a gig like that right now for sure. Recession has body slammed me. So how far away are we from reading a review from Neal? As most of you, I'm really interested in what he thinks about this product.

please do not multi post, use the multi quote button to respond to more then one post at a time or just use the edit button if you need to add more to your comments you already posted so you dont have many posts in a row


thank you

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

Suzuki make cars too


link (http://www.autoevolution.com/news/suzuki-recalls-over-10000-cars-in-china-16453.html)

Is this happening in another part of the world? In the states, we got the guy from Toyota testifying before Congress. I don't recall this guy from Suzuki being there as well.

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

So I'm reading stuff at this Ubisoft forum. There is some talk of....let's call them less than legal modifications. I still don't think anyone should do this either way. However, the forum goes on to talk about what level of protection would you be wiling to live with. One of the posts is genius. It talks about packaging the product with a portable USB drive. The drive needs to be attached to the PC at all times to play the game. I don't know the specifics of this or what exactly is on the drive that allows you to play but I could live with something like this. What say you?

[gutted]

It talks about packaging the product with a portable USB drive. The drive needs to be attached to the PC at all times to play the game. I don't know the specifics of this or what exactly is on the drive that allows you to play but I could live with something like this. What say you?

Those can and have been cracked

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

It seems you know more about that than me. I personally haven't seen a product that was packaged this way with a portable drive to operate the product. How about this protection scheme that was used for the PC version of Batman Arkham Asylum? Essentially, what occurs is if the media is copied, certain files don't make it onto the duplicate. With those files missing, the game can still be played but the game behaves funny. Example: Batman can glide using the cape attached to his cowl but if it is a copy, Batman cannot use this ability. Other abilities are taken away as well and eventually, the player cannot continue the story line in the game and is forced to stop playing. Eidos Interactive, the publisher of the game, was contacted by several individuals regarding these issues and they were told go out and buy the game since the company knew these individuals were not using a licensed product. Now that's clever. In Silent Hunter 5, if you have a copy, you cannot dive or fire torpedoes. The game will run but many functions simply don't work and it makes the game unplayable. I could live with this idea.

[Mav87th]

I think the reason why Silent Hunter 4 didn't do as well as 3 is wrapped up on the subject matter. IE: Not commanding a German submarine. I think that put some people off a little bit. Ubisoft should have stuck to the German campaign instead of focusing on the war with Japan and the US. The German conflict was far more interesting.

I beg to differ - imo the Pacific campaign are MUCH more interesting then the atlantic. Many more historic places to visit (islands), and much more statistical and historical material to "mod" from. Just look at the Run Silent Run Deep campaign by Lurker as one example.

The reason SH3 "feels" like its more successfull imo is that its older, more time under the belt. AND that it was easier to mod the UI then SH4.

THIS is where i think SH5 will have its strenght. Mod'ability!! It comes with unquestionably good graphics compared to the others, and with the python scripting it will relativly fast become much much better then both SH3 and SH4. But as with both of those titles - it needs modding to be what the majority of THIS fora wants.

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

I can agree with that for the most part. I wasn't able to play Silent Hunter 4 when initially came out due to the Pixel Shader 2.0 requirement. It was some time down the road when I finally picked it up. It was more graphically appealing than Silent Hunter 3, however, I still went back to 3 in the end. Liked it better and I really can't state why exactly. Just one of those things, it draws you back. I think Silent Hunter 3 was a tad more fun. Just my opinion of course.

[elanaiba]

Guys.

A crack is out.

But at the moment, I'd hold my horses, because it doesn't seem to be doing all that is needed to run the game offline.

Take this as a "no bull****" assessment. The game hasn't been cracked yet.

[kylania]

Over on BluesNews they are talking about it being fully cracked.

On the good side of things UbiSoft has already patched AC2 so that you don't lose all your progress back to a checkpoint. If they are caving to that before the game is even out, hopefully they can rip all of it out since it's obvious it's doing nothing but hurting the titles and developers.

[IanC]

Guys.

A crack is out.

But at the moment, I'd hold my horses, because it doesn't seem to be doing all that is needed to run the game offline.

Take this as a "no bull****" assessment. The game hasn't been cracked yet.

So they got 'half' a crack out already... I wonder how much longer until a full one, maybe a week or two. :hmmm:

[d@rk51d3]

I bought a defective Orek vacuum cleaner last year. Despite sending it back, I still had issues with it. The on and off switch was messed up as well. Who in their right mind sends out a vacuum that can't be turned on and off?


Well, that sux............. or not, which sux too. :06::88):O::D

[Capt. Friedhoffer]

You know.....with the current state of this game, does the DRM really even bother anyone anymore? It's clear that the game is a mess and needs a ton of work done on it. It very much looks unfinished. From my point of view, I think the DRM issue is the least in terms of topics of concern at this point. I mean really? Does it matter now if you can play offline or not? Some don't want to play at all because of the state of this product. I'm kinda there in that camp as well in a way. It is shameful what they did here. On the plus side, it does have potential and I do believe these issues can be worked out but how many patches will need to be released in order to address everything? Man! What were they doing over there for 3 plus years? Developing what? A cure for the common cold? Wow! That's all I can say, wow! It's like one of those things you love it and hate it at the same time! I'm really conflicted. Please Ubisoft, help us out.

[JiMeS]

Hello and good morning for all Europeans the rest of you good day:) ,
Well been lurking around the forum for the past months haven't posted yet till now.
Well i have seen a lot whining threads, a lot optimistic threads, wasn't sure what to do till a few days back when i did preorder the game. To day i wake up to see any new screenshots or vids and i see they cracked it already. Not a big surprise to me i can say. They have already uploaded to in major torrentsites. I am just thinking was i stupid to give away 50€ (ordered the collector's...stupid me :S ) only to have a game with quiet a few bugs and forced to be online all the time?
I want to help silent hunter to continue to live that's why i bought it in the first place but i am just a student, i can't and won't spend another euro not only in a ubi game but any company that tries to mock me with a game that only wants to make money.
Not sure if i am dissapointed or exited about the game. Think i'll just wait to arrive and give it a try. Sure hope the modding community is more optimistic and maybe make this game a lot better (although ubi should have done this in the first place)
I hope i didn't tire you too much with the wall of text :)

[Herman]

So they got 'half' a crack out already... I wonder how much longer until a full one, maybe a week or two. :hmmm:

"Half a crack," eh? Is that anything like "Half a hole"? :D

[Gunnodayak]

"Half a crack," eh? Is that anything like "Half a hole"? :D
I don't know why I have this strong feeling that the crack is full, only the game is half (developed by UBI) ... Crackers seem to be faster than UBI employees ...

[IanC]

"Half a crack," eh? Is that anything like "Half a hole"? :D

:haha: I refuse to make a half a crack and a hole joke... too early in the morning.

[elanaiba]

I don't know why I have this strong feeling that the crack is full, only the game is half (developed by UBI) ... Crackers seem to be faster than UBI employees ...

Oh, but you are welcome to play the crack the game, since its so much better. Please, do without our game, and enjoy ... just the crack.

[Rockin Robbins]

Indeed your right it's out and confirmed now. I'd say haha at Ubi - but I'm the one suffering now and stuck with DRM. Shame on me for buying retail :down:

Well, shame on you, but not for that reason. Double shame if you had stolen the game. We need to go without the game, making it clear that we will purchase as soon as Ubi corrects its brain fart.

[Gunnodayak]

Oh, but you are welcome to play the crack the game, since its so much better. Please, do without our game, and enjoy ... just the crack.
Danutica, instead of replying to my posts, you maybe better work on the patches ... There are a lot of things to be fixed, I know you can do that for us, I am putting my whole trust in you.

[RedChico]

Danutica, instead of replying to my posts, you maybe better work on the patches ... There are a lot of things to be fixed, I know you can do that for us, I am putting my whole trust in you.

Touché!

[elanaiba]

Danutica, instead of replying to my posts, you maybe better work on the patches ... There are a lot of things to be fixed, I know you can do that for us, I am putting my whole trust in you.

Aren't you the one asking for the "devs to come out like men and face you" ?

[Gunnodayak]

Aren't you the one asking for the "devs to come out like men and face you" ?
You know very well that it's not about "facing me", it's about facing all dissatisfied customers of the company you represent. And to be honest and say to all of us what do you think about the result of your work. Maybe you are proud, maybe you are not. Just let us know. Some honesty might help your position, believe me.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Danutica, instead of replying to my posts, you maybe better work on the patches ... There are a lot of things to be fixed, I know you can do that for us, I am putting my whole trust in you.

Oh snap!

[Adriatico]

Well, it just takes one crack distant-echo... for elanaiba to open the mouth and soul :o

I wish You where so talkative when DRM was introduced, when Ubi-aparthaid blacklisted all fans with a bad-internet, when people here posed all those questions on DRM technical requirements... asked for FAQ on DRM.

Nothing...

Just one distant crack-ping and... bird is singing all over the place.:hmmm:

Better now than never...

(Ok Neal, take a shot, I'm ready...)

[sk065]

im actually glad its cracked...its the biggest LOL FTW ever...

I wonder how many hypocrites there are on this forum...

I havent bought the game but I havent pirated it either.

I have never downloaded a cracked version of a game before but I feel I maybe I should just to piss off UBI - just like they pissed me and every other legit coustomer with this BS.

[Rockin Robbins]

Don't make the mistake of thinking Dan was the source of the DRM scheme, or that he even knows all the details of how it works. He's not the enemy here, he's the project leader of Silent Hunter 5, which is entirely separate from the DRM attached.

Dan's entire involvement is that he is an employee of Ubi. He's no more responsible for the DRM than the employee who sweeps the floors. "Punish the innocent" is Ubi's registered trademark and you are not allowed to use it, especially on Dan.:D

[Nordmann]

While I don't condone piracy, I cannot help but smile at this news. If their DRM has been compromised, as claimed, it's going to make Ubi look very, very silly indeed.

[Adriatico]

Don't make the mistake of thinking Dan was the source of the DRM scheme, or that he even knows all the details of how it works.
:D

No way, my mother in law knows all details of how DRM works... :rotfl2:

...and where on earth did you find word "enemy" ?

I know it's wargame afterall, but let's keep some academic level...
;)

[Nufsed]

Hi folks... I don't post here often but when Steam notified me that SH5 was released I immediately popped over here to find out the lowdown on the DRM scheme. And I got it; the game's been cracked ridiculously fast.

I still refuse to buy SH5, which is a shame, because I fell in love with SH3 and if this DRM stuff hadn't happened I'd have paid full price on Day 1 for it. But not now. Never will I support an entertainment company that asks me to pay to be screwed.

The sad thing is I think there are no winners. There's no hate on my end for Ubi, just empathy for the devs who wanted to make a great game and had this DRM stuff overshadow their accomplishments and keep people like me from playing the product of their hard work.

I get screwed as a paying customer, Ubi gets screwed because I won't buy their products. They brought it on themselves, and it's just depressing all the way around.

Edit: Wow, I just noticed that this is my first post. After reading hundreds of SH3 threads and downloading many mods, I must have felt like I'd been a part of the community. Well... Hi Subsim! I'm just sorry my first post was about how I wouldn't be buying a new sub sim...

I think this point of view is rather misguided. Whatever view you have regarding DRM, Ubisoft have a right to protect their investment. I think it very unlikely that the SH series of software; the heart of our hobby, would ever have seen the light of day and have become available to so many people without companies like Ubisoft. I believe "most" of the guys (or girls) serious about Sumarine simulation will buy these games "regardless", that also goes for flight sims and any other niche product. I said this before and I'll say it again; Slient Hunter 5 will develop over time (with the modders help) into "probably" the best sub sim in the World.

[DJSatane]

Consumers: -1

Consumers are -9999999 no matter how you slice it, the state of this game is awful not to mentions bugs that existed since sh3 and were well known are in the game.

[Buckie]

iam glad i never bought it now, piracy is good for beta testing.

[GREY WOLF 3]

The word crack is banned,so why has ubisoft just done it,:hmmm:they called it a patch,its the same thing changing your files, there is a lot of good patch sites out there and they work perfect , OK some don't,that is up to you.if you prefer not to use them don't.I don't, I went to one of my grandsons today he got it for nothing the game runs perfect:arrgh!:then he showed me 5 sites with free download to the game,you will never stop those:arrgh!:.Maybe if this game was released in a descent state more people would buy it legit and not down load from the :arrgh!: to check it out because of the bad reviews

Just had to vent my anger sorry if I've upset other members
Going down the pub now to get pissed

[JG52Krupi]

http://www.incgamers.com/News/21285/pc-pirates-will-find-ubi-titles-not-complete

to sum up UBI have followed the trend set by Batman Arkham Asylum and have released a game missing a large portion of its contents which will be activated by a patch at some point, this approach failed on the Batman game (which was amazing btw) as the hackers and programmers were able to find the game breaking areas and fix these intentional bugs.

From UBI response I am pretty sure this is the case with SH5. :yawn:

[Webster]

http://www.incgamers.com/News/21285/pc-pirates-will-find-ubi-titles-not-complete

to sum up we UBI have followed the trend set by Batman Arkham Asylum and have released a game missing a large portion of its contents which will be activated by a patch at some point, this approach failed on the Batman game (which was amazing btw) as the hackers and programmers were able to find the game breaking areas and fix these intentional bugs.

From UBI response I am pretty sure this is the case with SH5. :yawn:


there is no "secret lock box" where content is stored so a game gotten by unscrupulous means will be just as complete as any legal version. it might even have a few little extras like data miners or trojans in it :o

what it probably is is they have some data kept on their servers to trigger certain things in the game to retrieve data or instruct it to select the next mission.

if thats not it then maybe they think the patches are somehow more secure then the game was and this is the "missing" content they refer to but anything released to legit users WILL find its way to the :arrgh!: and those who use their stuff.

[Engine]

I think this point of view is rather misguided. Whatever view you have regarding DRM, Ubisoft have a right to protect their investment. I think it very unlikely that the SH series of software; the heart of our hobby, would ever have seen the light of day and have become available to so many people without companies like Ubisoft. I believe "most" of the guys (or girls) serious about Sumarine simulation will buy these games "regardless", that also goes for flight sims and any other niche product. I said this before and I'll say it again; Slient Hunter 5 will develop over time (with the modders help) into "probably" the best sub sim in the World.

Hi Nufsed,

To clarify, I should mention that while I strongly dislike DRM (I feel that it primarily alienates paying customers rather than serving its intended purpose), I do believe that companies have a right to protect their products and so I deal with some forms of DRM... However, there is a line I will draw as to how severe a DRM solution I will tolerate, and this is the case with Ubisoft. I don't feel that your point regarding Ubi being the only ones to make a decent sub sim applies; sure, a great niche game deserves all the praise in the world, but it's completely separate from the DRM issue.

To Reece,
Thanks for the kind welcome! :)

[jerm138]

If your internet connection is stable and fast enough to download it illegally, shouldn't it be adequate enough to run the game with the DRM? :doh:

Just sayin'

[etheberge]

From the UBI statement:
“Rumor control: any gamer who downloads and plays a cracked version of #AC2 and #SH5 will find that their version is not complete.”Technically, even those of us who bought the game have a version that is far, far from complete so I fail to see the difference.

If they are talking about the patches then even those are being cracked too so what's their point?

Maybe they're saying that if you crack the game then you'll experience strange behavior like with the FADE protection from a while back? Perhaps things like not being able to steer to a certain heading, having you crew stay on deck when submerged or not being able to respond to orders, dying of CO2 poisoning while surfaced, etc.

Oh wait....

[Jimbuna]

iam glad i never bought it now, piracy is good for beta testing.

Eh? http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1817/thinkbigsw1yo4.gif

[flag4]

does any one remember 'Home Taping is Killing Music' label on the old lp's sleeve?

did it kill music? no, i dont think so. music industries still make mega bucks.

i dont think games companies lose that much either: there must be a calculated allowance for loss to piracy. i suspect if the game is fantastic sales will outstrip piracy; after all, who wants a potentially cocked up pirtate download, the game is already reduced in price by nearly £10 on amazon. even my children who recieve a little pocket money could afford this game ( if they wanted it ) in a month - it aint that expensive. i think the thrill for pirates is in the cracking and boasting. i for one would not download a pirate copy. Hell! i could get an original from ebay in 6-12 months from a certified seller, maybe for £15-20.

whats more interesting is the length/amount of these threads and the ping pong back and to comments that never seem to go any where and the repetition of plee's not to cross subsim boundaries

the first post expalins it all - clearly, no?:hmmm:

god knows what the devs are feeling - maybe they will be glad to rinse their hands of it - leaving it to the modders.

like my mum used to say " if you dont like whats on telly you can always turn it off."

night night:zzz:

[Riksa]

Apparently 'incomplete' means that parts of game data will be downloaded on the fly. I've heard reports of pirates not seeing any missions to choose from or something like that. Presumably AC2 will also download missions or something similar that isn't included on the disc or within the downloaded installer.

[utops]

For Sh5 missing content it is not big deal, because supermods often overwrite stock campaigns and missions ... at least i hope so.

[Wolfehunter]

No, no, it's nothing to do with me getting into trouble. There are hundreds of forums where people talk about cracks, game companies don't bother with them. It's because I think it's wrong to download games one doesn't pay for. Period. Especially submarine games, it will kill the hobby. And if we start discussing cracks, it will lead to worse.

I don't want to debate that, it's my opinion, nothing new.I can respect this neal.

By the way neal you could make special avatars for the crackers.... Like polly want a cracker who never learn... parrots or such.. hehehe..:03:

[gutted]

The crack is only 99.9% complete.

It's totally playable with it, but you'll be missing out on one very minor detail (which is actually a major detail) that may not be readily apparent at first glance.

And no don't ask me what it is. I can spot who's using it now.

Go out and buy it like i did, and lets hope after 6 months or a year when the price of the game drops they remove the online thing.

[jwilliams]

The crack is only 99.9% complete.

It's totally playable with it, but you'll be missing out on one very minor detail (which is actually a major detail) that may not be readily apparent at first glance.

And no don't ask me what it is. I can spot who's using it now.

Go out and buy it like i did, and lets hope after 6 months or a year when the price of the game drops they remove the online thing.

Unless this minor (major) detail makes the game unplayable, then whats the point?

to know who has a pirated copy isnt going to help them stop using the pirated version.

If it does make the game unplayable then..... lol at the pirates

[gutted]

Hehe, i already see one post about it.

I'm temepted to tell em to remove his crack.. but i'll let it go alittle longer.

[Onkel Neal]

I'm closing this thread. People here are acting like jerks. Warning issued.