View Full Version : Hmph
Even with map contacts off and manual targetting.. you can get assisted targeting if you want.
I had it set to full real for this mission. Was milling about the eastern coast of britain when i saw a patroling destroyer.
I was able to get within striking distance, so i figured i'd try to hit em just to see if i could. but it was obvious he was on some type of random patrol pattern and wouldn't drive straight long enough for me to get a manual solution on em. But then i noticed i noticed a "Turn off TDC" option in the weapon officer's menu.
So i did it, and the assisted targetting info came up on the popout map. I never saw the enemy ship's silhoutte on it mind you... but i did see his projected "path" with the timing cues on it. It was enough information to figure out the course to turn onto for a good intercept.
So i drove in.. and when my torpedoe's "time 3" reached the destoyer's "time 3" i fired off a spread of 4, and i sunk him.
Ridiculously easy.
No.
Just stating that even with full real on... you can get targetting assistance mid-mission. It's enough information for you to plan your attack with plotting anything.. nor having to input any TDC data.
Just saying.
SteamWake
03-01-10, 01:50 PM
Isnt that he WO's job Kalun?
Or just keep your hand out of the cookie jar :salute:
Someone will mod it out.
All that is is the position keep lock. It just holds the data on the last solution you entered, it will update accordingly. Your just seeing it different because its not a big red lock button.
HENCE TDC ON / OFF, it adds the dreaded triangle now but all you need to do is remove the image from your data folder and its gone ;]
Now if you turn it off you get the data screen again where you can update manually....
And NO your not changing realism settings in the game.................
I don't think you understood what i just said.
I never entered any TDC info. I selected turn off TDC, locked him up.. and i could see his projected path along with the timing cues.
I turned into a intercept course on that projected path.. and drove in till the "time 3" circles were aligned and let loose.
It's the same as auto-targetting, but with slightly less information on the popup map.
Also, whenever HE turned.. the projeted path on the popup map changed as well (without any TDC inputs).
joejccva71
03-01-10, 01:54 PM
What he's trying to say is that they have dumbed down the targeting in this game so a pre-schooler can do it blindfolded. And I agree. It's way too easy. Modders unite please. :)
OMG, you guys are retarded im sorry..... Read my post above....
I wouldn't say that. It's not point and shoot auto targetting like in previous versions.
You actually have to aim it yourself. It's a cool feature (though completely unrealistic), and im not complaining about it. Just wondering why it's there on 100% realism.
but that said....
Im glad it's there for the time being, because without decent TDC controls.. gonna be forced to fall back on it from time to time. Im having a hell of a time identifying ships for the manual entry. The rec pages are so small, and i still cant figure out how to get the angled view of them.
OMG, you guys are retarded im sorry..... Read my post above....
I did.
It just holds the data on the last solution you entered, iWrong. It's not a position keeper. You dont have to enter anything. Just lock and go.
TDC ON = manual entry (Range, Speed, Rec Manual, AOB, Bearing etc. etc.)
TDC OFF = Assisted targeting. Lock up a contact, and align the torpedo's timing cues on the minimap with the enemy ships timing cues and fire.
Do yourself a favor and fire using what you see as your track in the attack map. On 100% realism, that solution he offers will not hit its way off, he doesent update the speed, the range etc.
He only shows the direct line to the ship on the map (bearing).
If you fire with his solution which isn't complete you will miss.
Do yourself a favor and fire using what you see as your track in the attack map. On 100% realism, that solution he offers will not hit its way off, he doesent update the speed, the range etc.
He only shows the direct line to the ship on the map (bearing).
If you fire with his solution which isn't complete you will miss.
you're not even making sense.
The path you see for your torpedoes are the actual path they will take. It has nothing to do with target bearing, range, or speed.
There are 3 dots, corresponding to different time intervals.. of where they will be at future points in time.
When you lock up a ship, you will see that same type of information coming out of the front of the target ship (though with map contacts off, you wont actuall see the ship.. just the line). The speed and heading is done automatically for you. The direction of the line is his heading (it updates in realtime.. .ie he turns, the line changes). The dots are spaced out according to his speed.
All you have to do is move your scope around to align one of the torpdoe's intervals with one of his intervals and fire. The ship and torpedo will converge at that "interval".
There is no solution involved. No input of data.
I just hit a ship 2000m+ away, and never entered anything. The torpdoe's impacted right where it was supposed to.
Again.. this is with the TDC turned OFF.
Your solution is still wrong, you may have hit, but I followed those intervals 1,2,3 along the torp track (line it takes) it meant nothing at all. I looked at the clock and they did not match up to any time. For instance 1 was at 45 seconds. I did the thing you did only further like 3100 meters and its a huge miss, no data entered...
True math will beat this "auto" solution every time.
Heres a screen, its gonna miss i tell you...
This screen also shows why the SCOPE is off in the corner. You can adjust the size of the attack map.
Meaning, you have the ATTACK MAP, SCOPE, TDC AND FIRING CONTROLS, on one screen. I spent hours looking for away to add the TDC controls to the attack map in SH4. This is huge IMO.
OH and if you look close you can see a tab on the left corner you can click to pull up your tools and edit the map with scope, tdc, attack map and firing controls on one screen.
http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy309/pwc100/SH5Img2010-03-01_142756.jpg
Galanti
03-01-10, 02:40 PM
Meaning, you have the ATTACK MAP, SCOPE, TDC AND FIRING CONTROLS, on one screen. I spent hours looking for away to add the TDC controls to the attack map in SH4. This is huge IMO.
True, but the controls look like utter ass compared to SH3/SH4. Just sayin'.
So is the OP saying that those retarded paint-by-numbers torpedo number things are always on? Uggh.
why is your torpedo path not in your scope cone?
Mine is always centered in it. Thats probably why we are seeing different behaviour.
http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab138/gorey666/tdc1.png
http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab138/gorey666/tdc2.png
True, but the controls look like utter ass compared to SH3/SH4. Just sayin'.
So is the OP saying that those retarded paint-by-numbers torpedo number things are always on? Uggh.
I hate to be disagreeing so much, but its clean quick and precise IMO. The immersion factor here is the fact that the captain wouldn't be looking at TDC dials and compasses and dials all the time especially with the scope up.
Don't worry tho, this GUI is highly moddable.
Ok i see what our differences are now.
If you have TDC Off:
If you rotate your scope over a target and DONT lock it, the weapon officer will compute "his" solution for you. It's likely inaccurate and it's also highly bugged in it's behaviour. When you move your scope off it, the torpdoe path doesn't adjust back to your scope. It's stuck at whatever lead angle he computed at the moment you put your scope on the target. You have to flip TDC On and back off again to rest it.
BUT....
If you instead LOCK the target, you have to aim it yourself. The torpdo path is slaved to your scope and you get aiming cues. THIS is what im talking about.
Ok i see what our differences are now.
If you have TDC Off:
If you rotate your scope over a target and DONT lock it, the weapon officer will compute "his" solution for you. But it's highly bugged. When you move your scope off it, the torpdoe path doesn't adjust back to your scope. You have to flip TDC On and back off again.
BUT....
If you instead LOCK the target, you have to aim it yourself. The torpdo path is slaved to your scope and you get aiming cues. THIS is what im talking about.
HHAHA between me and you this game will be nothing but a set of bones with the meat picked off ;]
Here's a screenie of what it looks like. It's not the best shot, because he saw me and is coming at me.. but you can clearly see that you have to aim it yourself. (the target is locked btw)
You can see where he will be at times 1, 2, & 3.. and where the torpdeo will be at times 1, 2, & 3.
Just manuever in, aim it so they will collide at some point in time. Either on 3, or halfway between 2 & 3 etc etc.
http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab138/gorey666/tdc3.png
And here it is with our "time 3's" overlapped.
At this point, i have the correct lead angle if he doesn't turn. Too bad he's alert though, and will just dodge it. A Spread would have been in order. :)
http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab138/gorey666/tdc4.png
Its more like officer assistance than an auto solution
Bilge_Rat
03-01-10, 03:37 PM
Gutted, your explanation does not match up with what I am seeing and I have been pouring over the TDC this weekend to try to master it.
The solution the XO gives you is a gross estimate and usually way off in terms of speed and range. I believe turning TDC off just allows you to manually point and shoot.
but I will recheck tonight when I get home and report back tomorrow.
Yeah, i may use this for alittle while, until the manual TDC operation is alittle less annoying.
Gutted, your explanation does not match up with what I am seeing and I have been pouring over the TDC this weekend to try to master it.
The solution the XO gives you is a gross estimate and usually way off in terms of speed and range. I believe turning TDC off just allows you to manually point and shoot.
but I will recheck tonight when I get home and report back tomorrow.
Turn TDC off.. and lock a target. With a target "locked".. it overrides the XO's solution and gives you cues to help you aim it yourself.
Again, my screen shots are with Manul Targetting On and No map contacts.
Yeah, i may use this for alittle while, until the manual TDC operation is alittle less annoying.
Hows it annoying? You can now type in your data rather than losing time trying to drag your mouse on a dial.
If you do the math properly it doesn't matter if you have a crummy looking interface, all the info is there to enter data into the TDC..... except there is no way to set a spread except to do it manually by changing the bearing fast, which is the one lame thing in my opinion.
Anyone to figure out how to set the spread will get a hero biscuit.
Are you guys using math to find your solutions?
BilgeRat:
Look at page 23 in the manual. The description is alittle vague.. but it has pictures.
Hows it annoying? You can now type in your data rather than losing time trying to drag your mouse on a dial.
If you do the math properly it doesn't matter if you have a crummy looking interface, all the info is there to enter data into the TDC..... except there is no way to set a spread except to do it manually by changing the bearing fast, which is the one lame thing in my opinion.
Anyone to figure out how to set the spread will get a hero biscuit.
You can type it? LOL i didn't even think to try that AHAHAHA. I was banging my head on the desk clicking the left/right arrows over and over again.
I still hate the recognition manual though, it's too small for these eyes.
Onkel Neal
03-01-10, 04:08 PM
And the devs said they were going to make this game easier for the casual players :haha:
subsimlee
03-01-10, 04:10 PM
:DHey guys, followed your posts on this " firing solution/TDC " . You've already dug out more info than the manual gives for sure but you say you can type in data related to a solution. What data exactly and where/how????
please and thank you!
edit: My observation as well Neal !!!
:DHey guys, followed your posts on this " firing solution/TDC " . You've already dug out more info than the manual gives for sure but you say you can type in data related to a solution. What data exactly and where/how????
please and thank you!
edit: My observation as well Neal !!!
Hehe, this is an informative thread indeed.
You can type your numbers into the screen you have been seeing in the screen shots. Everyone was worried that you could only set speed in increments of 2. You can type in any number actually via the keyboard.
Simple fast, effective for on the fly math and real time adjustments.
subsimlee
03-01-10, 04:17 PM
:D Cheers! :D
Yeah, i just been playing with it.
And now that i "see the light", i think it's awesome you can type in the values.
I would prefer a better AOB entry control though. I much prferred the more natural SHIV dial than the SH3 "scraatchpad one". I want to rotate a ship so it matches my scope.. not rotate an arrow around a stationary ship image.
Yeah, i just been playing with it.
And now that i "see the light", i think it's awesome you can type in the values.
I would prefer a better AOB entry control though. I much prferred the more natural SHIV dial than the SH3 "scraatchpad one". I want to rotate a ship so it matches my scope.. not rotate an arrow around a stationary ship image.
I type in the AOB once I have done the math I never touch that dial on the notepad.
Yes, but there are some times when you'd want to do it visually.
Atleast it's linked to the scope. So you only have to set it once.
karamazovnew
03-01-10, 05:21 PM
wowowow, wait, you can TYPE values?! Oh god please tell me this is not just for a few hardcoded items, please please....
Gutted, can you post a pic when typing the value for range for example?
And question, once you set a TDC solution, save and load the game. Does the game remember those values?
I dunno if it saves the solution.. but one thing i noticed is that currently it does not save any of your map plotting. Bummer.
As for typing, you can type in the AOB, the Range, the Bearing & the Speed.
The TDC entry is menu driven. You have to click the range hotlink, then go to the next page and type it.. then back out.. and select speed etc. etc. Somewhat combersome.. but pretty nifty that we can finally type.
I'd still like some dials. I dont really care for the menu version.
karamazovnew
03-01-10, 06:54 PM
I hate dials. No wonder after I had to make 50 dials for KiUB :damn:
derblaueClaus
03-01-10, 07:45 PM
And the devs said they were going to make this game easier for the casual players :haha:
:har: Exactly what i thought when I read through this Thread. Its still a little confusing for me but its gettin better post by post so keep the information coming. And by the way good to hear that you can type in those data. :up:
Just use the manual targeting.:O::O:
Philipp_Thomsen
03-01-10, 07:56 PM
There should be 3 options:
1) Manual TDC - You do everything manually.
2) Auto TDC - You lock and fire.
3) WO Assist - You point and ask him, after 10-20 seconds the guy comes up with the data and send it to the TDC.
3 is the most realistic, imo.
capthelm
03-01-10, 08:04 PM
by the time you do al the manual targeting and input, the target has sailed off into the sunset.. :har:
by the time you do al the manual targeting and input, the target has sailed off into the sunset.. :har:
He has a point!
Bilge_Rat
03-01-10, 08:55 PM
well I checked and Gutted was right, with manual TDC and map updates off, the map shows a predicted path for a locked ship which appears to be accurate.
As an experiment, I tried plugging in a solution in the TDC which was clearly wrong and then turning TDC off, but the path still appeared to follow the locked ship's true path.
This will have to be looked at in greater detail, it's a bit too gamey for my taste...
well I checked and Gutted was right, with manual TDC and map updates off, the map shows a predicted path for a locked ship which appears to be accurate.
As an experiment, I tried plugging in a solution in the TDC which was clearly wrong and then turning TDC off, but the path still appeared to follow the locked ship's true path.
This will have to be looked at in greater detail, it's a bit too gamey for my taste...
I dunno if it needs to be looked at. It's not like you're forced to use it, and ignoring it is as simple as not disabling the TDC.
ironkross
03-02-10, 12:24 AM
After seeing these screenies and reading the discussion of targeting I'm really jonesing for this game now. :damn:
As one who was in the wait and see crowd, it's going to be hard not to pick up a game if I come across one in a store.
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