I cannot hit anything

[crashed97tsi]

Hello:

I don't know what I am doing wrong, but I cannot hit anything with Torpedoes in this game. Everytime I use the TDC and input the ship type, range, speed, bearing, and AOB I miss horribly. The torpedos keep going where the ship was when I fired the torpedo, not where it is going to be when the torpedo gets there.

This is on automatic mode btw, no manual targeting mode yet. However, no matter what I do I cannot get a hit at over 500m. The torpedos just miss horribly.

SO any ideas? I am also positive I am identifying, ranging, and estimating speed correctly. I think my problem is with the angle off bow or whatever.

Game is good so far, however I really miss the crew interface of the past games. This new type doesn't really work for me.

[gutted]

If you are on automatic targetting, you dont need to input anything.

Look in the manual.. it will explain what those numbered circles are on your minimap.. and how to use them in auto targetting to help lead your shot.

[kptn_kaiserhof]

i to love the old interface from 4 & 5.......... and yes i mean the tdc

[DMB3428]

one thing im doing is "leading" the target...I put the cross hair on the bow of the boat and then update the range then fire.....I prefer the SH4 method with the dials and such...THIS HAS TO BE MODDED IMO!

[Bilge_Rat]

I posted this somewhere else, but it may help here as well:

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/8235/sh50015.jpg

This is with manual TDC, but map updates "on", which I find is the best way to learn since you can practice manual targeting and doublecheck against the map readings to figure out what you are doing wrong.

The solution (i.e. range, AOB, speed) was plugged in exactly from the data on the map. I aimed at the bow and midships and the torpedoes hit where I was aiming. The gyro angle takes into account not only the aim point, but the fact that the TGT is moving right to left at 10 knots.

When you have a perfect solution, the torpedo will go exactly where you aim it.

I have not tried AUTO TDC, so I do not know what the issue is or why it does not work the same way.

[gutted]

Yeah the Scope and AOB is linked in manual TDC like it was in SH3. But.. I wish it will tell you what the gyro angle is.

[dangrey]

I'm also having trouble with auto tdc. The torpedo always go where the ship was when I fired ...:hmmm:

[ddrgn]

Can I allow myself to show how I have been hitting from 3500 meters consistently.

1) make sure your at periscope depth by 8k, they will see you any further after that.
2) Get ships course, you should know this by now.
3) Get speed, you should also know this by now.
4) Get range, you should know this by now too.
5) Get ships relative bearing.

Fun math stuff now (I will show only the formulas not the theory).

TDC ALWAYS OFF. You should have the attack map, tdc, firing controls, and the scope in one view.

Ok.

Now if your know your course is 0° and his course is 270° and his relative bearing is 50°, you can do the math for angle on the bow.

So its Target True Bearing + (plus) Ships Course - (minus) 180 = AOB Which in our case is:

50 + 270 - 180 = 140 AOB

Now adjust the range and confirm the speed.

Now if your True Target Bearing is 350°, you would simply minus 10 from the formula as so:

10 - 270 - 180 = 80 AOB

What I do and suspect captains did would be assume the ship held course and plot the perfect solution along his track. Meaning if I know he is going to cross my scope at a certain bearing I could compute for 340° before he even gets there, giving me time to compensate for speed, range and allow for course correction if needed. You could do the math for multiple ships very fast without ever locking a scope or watching the same ship over and over.

[guynoir]

I wonder if it's sending '0' to the TDC in auto mode... Remember the chronometer bug in SHIV when manually targeting that would give the ship's speed as '0'? (which caused me to shelve the game for a good long while)

[ddrgn]

Theres no problem I can see setting the speed anywhere, you just type it in.

[dangrey]

I wonder if it's sending '0' to the TDC in auto mode... Remember the chronometer bug in SHIV when manually targeting that would give the ship's speed as '0'? (which caused me to shelve the game for a good long while)

Sounds like it could be yes. I'm enjoying playing as the captain and want to play with auto tdc for a while, before I'm going manual.

[Bilge_Rat]

There are many threads on manual targeting in the SH3/4 forums, but that is probably not pertinent to this discussion.

Regarding Auto TDC, someone would have to play with Auto TDC and map updates "on" and compare the TDC solution with the map data to figure out what is going on. I presume the Devs put in a fudge factor so it is not the silver bullet it was before.

[SteamWake]

I just wanted to drop in and say how awsome it is to have a real gameplay discussion.

It's a breath of fresh air !

Carry on ! :salute:

[dangrey]

Aha, I finally got some hits. After I mark a target, I have to choose the right speed on the torpedo, and then turn the attack-periscope (often away from the target in sight) till the line on map is about right. Both the nr. 3s should be close. I will play some mission with this before I go back to manual tracking. So we can't have the crew to identify ships etc. and get that info on the screen as well?

[Galanti]

Wait a minute, I just want to mark a target with the scope and let me crew do the rest. Is this possible through manual targetting or automatic? I don't want to have to line up dots on that lame TAI map, because frankly I throw up a little bit in my mouth every time I look at it.

I thought the whole purpose of this new approach was to take a lot of the microtasks out of the captain's hands and put them back in the crews.

[Rickenbacker]

I'm going to say "kind of". Seems to me like the torp more or less goes where you point your scope, which means my damn crew aren't doing their job! To test this lock up a ship that's 30 degrees or to off the bow - the arrow will be yellow. Now move the scope in front of the ship to "lead" it a bit, and the arrow turns green! Something is wrong here...

[mookiemookie]

Now if your know your course is 0° and his course is 270° and his relative bearing is 50°, you can do the math for angle on the bow.

This is what I'm having an issue with. I have no idea what my heading is. Do I have to actually step back from the scope and look at one of the dials in the boat?

[ddrgn]

This is what I'm having an issue with. I have no idea what my heading is. Do I have to actually step back from the scope and look at one of the dials in the boat?

What Im doing to find out my boats heading is to hit the "-" key and its view to heading, hit the numberpad "." key for heading to view and my navigator tells me my relative bearing

[malkuth74]

So I take it the whole torpedo thing from SHII and SHIV is now different.

I was a simpleton.. I use to just love to mark my target in SHIV set the speed of the torp and its depth and push fire. I loved the Green carot.

So now its more difficult? Ohhhhhhhh.....

[Bilge_Rat]

This is what I'm having an issue with. I have no idea what my heading is. Do I have to actually step back from the scope and look at one of the dials in the boat?

you could just bring up the mini-map to full size and check your boat's course from there.

for example, if you check out the screenshot I posted above, you can see on the mini-map, my boat's course is SSW, about 185 degrees.

[ddrgn]

you could just bring up the mini-map to full size and check your boat's course from there.

for example, if you check out the screenshot I posted above, you can see on the mini-map, my boat's course is SSW, about 185 degrees.

"About" is not good for calculating shots from 4000 meters. Do what I do, 0 the view and go heading to view, it wont change anything and it will tell you your heading exactly.

[mookiemookie]

"About" is not good for calculating shots from 4000 meters. Do what I do, 0 the view and go heading to view, it wont change anything and it will tell you your heading exactly.

Good workaround. Though we shouldn't have to find workarounds for this. I find it pretty ridiculous that they didn't include a "current heading" indicator on the GUI. Or a "current fuel level" for that matter.

Another question - I'm having trouble hitting stuff too...when using the stadimeter, what are you lining it up with? I'm putting the horizontal crosshair on the waterline, then bringing it up to match the top of the masts where the flag is flying. Should we be doing that? Or is it the top of the funnels?

[Drifter]

Could the torpedo misses set on auto targeting have anything to do with your crew's skill level? Just a thought...

[malkuth74]

Wow the system is so complicated. I have no idea what to do. And the manual is absalute garbage trying to explain this.

In auto TDC are you susppose to turn on the TDC? I tried both ways and neither work at all.

If you turn on the TDC then all the numbers are filled out for you it seems (maybe im wrong and they are wrong?) other then the speed. Speed you can get from the map.. So you punch in the speed. Point the scope at the bow of ship. And shoot.

Problem is torpedo goes well... I don't even know they miss by a mile.

One time I fired two torps doing just this.. And I fired at a 4 ship convoy traveling in perfect colum. Destroyer out front, two merch, another destroyer back... I fired at the 3rd ship..

My torpedos almost hit the first destroyer. I kid you not. I was like WTF?

Totally lost.

[ddrgn]

Here is a practice map you can load via Multiplayer or LAN.

Just add the folder to your MultiMissions folder.

I know its not the real QM its for practice purposes only.

I give you some information you can confirm and the numbers to start calculating the solution.

Play on any realism, takes seconds to load and its a good way to practice.

Enjoy ;]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom//downloads.php?do=file&id=1558

[Frederf]

If the auto-targetting in SH54 is anything like SH3 and SH4 then it works like this:

1. Pointing at a ship inputs the to-target-center values for target's speed, AoB, and range so they are the same no matter where along the target you point. It's just a flag in the program to fill these values in.

2. The periscope bearing for the solution is entirely variable based on your actual periscope bearing so it is different depending on where along the target you point.

Invariant: AoB, range, speed
Varies: Bearing

This is how you can target specific portions of the target ship because the solutions auto-generated by auto-targeting differ in only the periscope bearing input.

---

As to why one would MISS using auto-targeting was typically the time delay associated with opening the torpedo shutters during the firing sequence would cause a consistent slight miss to rear.

Any other more wild miss might be caused by not setting up the targeting options properly (for example, manual periscope bearing instead of auto update).

[gutted]

To find your current course (without changing it)...

Put your scope at 0, and issue the change heading to view command. The crew should respond with your current course.


[edit] seems someone already posted that. But In reference to the other post saying we shouldn't have to do this "workaround", it's no different than in SH3 & SH4 for finding your accurate course due to the hard to read heading indicator.

[killpo1]

Personally i prefer manually and i generally just use straight lines, using the tools on the map just measure out the distance where your torpedo will intersect the ship and calculate how long the ship will take to get there and form that you can tell how long to wait to fire and on what speed to fire on


Here is my table if your Interested its for the first type of torpedo you get

30 Knots(default/far left): 1km: 65 Seconds 2km: 130 seconds 3km: 194 Seconds
4km: 259 seconds

40 knots(middle): 1km: 49 Seconds 2km: 97.27s seconds 3km: 145.91 seconds 4km: 194.5 seconds

44 Knots(far right): 1km: 44 seconds 2km: 88.5 seconds 3km: 132.74 seconds 4km : 176.99 seconds

Generally most of the ships go 10-11 knots but if you can't tell generally the TDC can. Sure it may be a little more math oriented / complex / out of the way but it works rather well for me got a 3.5k hit today so yeah.

[gutted]

Personally i prefer manually and i generally just use straight lines, using the tools on the map just measure out the distance where your torpedo will intersect the ship and calculate how long the ship will take to get there and form that you can tell how long to wait to fire and on what speed to fire on


Here is my table if your Interested its for the first type of torpedo you get

30 Knots(default/far left): 1km: 65 Seconds 2km: 130 seconds 3km: 194 Seconds
4km: 259 seconds

40 knots(middle): 1km: 49 Seconds 2km: 97.27s seconds 3km: 145.91 seconds 4km: 194.5 seconds

44 Knots(far right): 1km: 44 seconds 2km: 88.5 seconds 3km: 132.74 seconds 4km : 176.99 seconds

Generally most of the ships go 10-11 knots but if you can't tell generally the TDC can. Sure it may be a little more math oriented / complex / out of the way but it works rather well for me got a 3.5k hit today so yeah.

That's a bit more time intesive than it needs to be.

With just a couple of quick strokes with the map tools, you can visually determine the exact bearing your scope needs to be at for a zero gyro shot (and because it will be a zero gyro shot.. the range wont matter).

Here's a pic. If need be i'll explain it further, but the pic should be enough.
http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab138/gorey666/geometry.png

[killpo1]

Momma said triangles are the devil! Specially the ones that involve trig!

[gutted]

LOL

[malkuth74]

Like to tell the devs something... When its not broke don't fix it. Auto TDC worked fine in the last 2 games. Why did you go and make this boehamouth carppy new system for.

Alright I played around with it a little a figured it out. You have to basically play connect the freaking dots with AUTO TDC. In this case connect the numbers.

Don't use TDC ON. Bad for auto...
1. Set your torpedo speed for it reaches the ship numbers on the Tac Map. Matters how close you are.

Now line up the closes two numbers to each other and push the stupid fire button.

Connect the dots. You have about a 75% chance of hitting it at this point.

Good luck.

What a crappy system.. My god nothing wrong with the old way,,, It made us feel special... Like we could do it, when we could not. This dot system is a freaking joke.

Now I have to learn manual.. Because Now it makes me feel to stupid... LOL.

Auto connect the dots they should call it. What a disgrace.

[Frederf]

Manual targeting goons
Ruin everything
Thread about shooting auto

[mookiemookie]

Almost right, fredderf
Haiku is Five-Seven-Five
But points for effort.

[Husksubsky]

Now if your know your course is 0° and his course is 270° and his relative bearing is 50°, you can do the math for angle on the bow.

So its Target True Bearing + (plus) Ships Course - (minus) 180 = AOB Which in our case is:

50 + 270 - 180 = 140 AOB

Now adjust the range and confirm the speed.

Now if your True Target Bearing is 350°, you would simply minus 10 from the formula as so:

10 - 270 - 180 = 80 AOB

hmm you don t need to know the bearing or your course as long as you know his course and what magnetic direction he is in. ( but after all bearing + ship course is the same as magnetic direction).Just felt for underlining that where you point your nose has nothing to do with AOB. Sorry for being difficult..nothing you said was wrong :D

(and sorry for messing up quote arggh how do I quote parts of a text?)

[Frederf]

I counted about as 2 syllables for some reason.

[Galanti]

Like to tell the devs something... When its not broke don't fix it. Auto TDC worked fine in the last 2 games. Why did you go and make this boehamouth carppy new system for.

Alright I played around with it a little a figured it out. You have to basically play connect the freaking dots with AUTO TDC. In this case connect the numbers.

Don't use TDC ON. Bad for auto...
1. Set your torpedo speed for it reaches the ship numbers on the Tac Map. Matters how close you are.

Now line up the closes two numbers to each other and push the stupid fire button.

Connect the dots. You have about a 75% chance of hitting it at this point.

Good luck.

What a crappy system.. My god nothing wrong with the old way,,, It made us feel special... Like we could do it, when we could not. This dot system is a freaking joke.

Now I have to learn manual.. Because Now it makes me feel to stupid... LOL.

Auto connect the dots they should call it. What a disgrace.

I had been hoping to use auto TDC so I could focus on being the captain, but I can't bring myself to use that ridiculous line up the numbers thing myself. Wholeheartedly concur with your post.

However, I do like the way manual TDC replicates the data gathering-order giving model of torpedo firing so I'm not to put out by going over to manual. OTH, there are appear to bugs with this as well, and I don't care for the way the recognition manual appears in this installment.

[Bilge_Rat]

Another question - I'm having trouble hitting stuff too...when using the stadimeter, what are you lining it up with? I'm putting the horizontal crosshair on the waterline, then bringing it up to match the top of the masts where the flag is flying. Should we be doing that? Or is it the top of the funnels?


good question, nothing in the manual on that. I thought it was the top of masts, although I have been getting more accurate readings from the top of the funnels. DDRGN had mentioned bridge decks. It would be nice to figure this one out.

[McHibbins]

Maybe try this :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6yQZjX1uKU

or maybe this is your problem ?:hmmm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp8LWSfne8E

[Bilge_Rat]

Like to tell the devs something... When its not broke don't fix it. Auto TDC worked fine in the last 2 games. Why did you go and make this boehamouth carppy new system for.

Alright I played around with it a little a figured it out. You have to basically play connect the freaking dots with AUTO TDC. In this case connect the numbers.

Don't use TDC ON. Bad for auto...
1. Set your torpedo speed for it reaches the ship numbers on the Tac Map. Matters how close you are.

Now line up the closes two numbers to each other and push the stupid fire button.

Connect the dots. You have about a 75% chance of hitting it at this point.

Good luck.

What a crappy system.. My god nothing wrong with the old way,,, It made us feel special... Like we could do it, when we could not. This dot system is a freaking joke.

Now I have to learn manual.. Because Now it makes me feel to stupid... LOL.

Auto connect the dots they should call it. What a disgrace.

there also seems to be a problem with the fix in 1.01 to auot targeting, namely:

1. w. manual TDC + map updates "off" + TDC off + locked TGT:

-you get no info on the track of your TGT, but the firing solution (yellow line) is aiming at where your TGT is going. On 100% realism, the firing solution w. TDC off should point straight down the sight bearing (i.e. where your scope is aiming)

example:

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/3930/shautotgt001.jpg


http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/6759/sh50020.jpg
2. w. manual TDC + map updates "on" + TDC off + locked TGT:

-the situation is reversed. You get info on the track of your TGT, but the firing solution (yellow line) is aiming straight down the sight bearing (i.e. where your scope is aiming) and not where the ship moving to.

example:

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/2994/sh50021.jpg

in this shot, I have locked on to a ship in the view of my scope (the light blue cone). You see the ship and its predicted track, but the predicted path of my torpedo (yellow line) now aims correctly straight down the view bearing (i.e. down the light blue cone);

the fix has been reversed, on 100% realism, w. manual TDC + map updates off + TDC off, you should not see the ship or its predicted path and the torpedo should shoot straight down the bearing (i.e. light blue cone).

until this is fixed, the game is only playable with manual TDC + TDC on.

[mookiemookie]

I counted about as 2 syllables for some reason.

Yeah, but that line should have 5 syllables, not 7. :up:

[joejccva71]

I have to agree with Malkuth. If the system was working in 2 previous games, why change it? For something to do?

Seriously, this "connect the dot" system is a complete joke, and it caters to the console gamer mentality honestly. Slowly I see this franchise going from true simulation to an arcade shooter with eye candy. :nope:

Don't companies understand that there are gamers out there that actually like realism and true simulation instead of only eye candy?

Sheesh.

[ddrgn]

Those dots can be easily modded out. Relax.

[mookiemookie]

Don't companies understand that there are gamers out there that actually like realism and true simulation instead of only eye candy?


Sad fact of the matter is that games without great graphics just don't sell. So they're forced to sink a lot of time and resources into graphics. Gameplay suffers for it.

[Itkovian]

good question, nothing in the manual on that. I thought it was the top of masts, although I have been getting more accurate readings from the top of the funnels. DDRGN had mentioned bridge decks. It would be nice to figure this one out.

Aye, this is my primary problem right now. Without knowing how to use the stadi, it is very difficult to get any kind of proper solution. Indeed, seems to me getting accurate range is the key (alongside angle-off-bow) to get proper solutions through the new manual TDC.

I'll try doing waterline-to-funnel with map updates on, and see if it matches.

Itkovian

[Galanti]

Seriously, this "connect the dot" system is a complete joke, and it caters to the console gamer mentality honestly.
Sheesh.

It's not just the dots system, everything from the comical crew members to the Tonka-style engine controls to speech bubbles feels like they've moved away from a serious, somber study of submarine operations to a light-hearted, frivolous romp. Like Operation Petticoat for U-Boats. The whole mood of the game strikes me as inappropiate for a subsim.

Shame because the eye-candy, phycisal atmosphere are top-notch.

[ddrgn]

Aye, this is my primary problem right now. Without knowing how to use the stadi, it is very difficult to get any kind of proper solution. Indeed, seems to me getting accurate range is the key (alongside angle-off-bow) to get proper solutions through the new manual TDC.

I'll try doing waterline-to-funnel with map updates on, and see if it matches.

Itkovian

Ok, here is what I have been doing to confirm "where" to take stadimeter reading from.

If you target a ship via the keys and the WO, you can ask for an estimated range reading, he will give you the range, take the stadimeter and line up the water line and find the exact same range by using the stadimeter.

In most cases I have found taking the range from the bridge roofs are best.

Now if I had a lot of time on my hands, which I don't. I would do this for every ship and record the values so I could relay the info to you fine people. I may do it on the weekend.

If you want these keys modded, use my commands keys in my downloads.

[Galanti]

Aye, this is my primary problem right now. Without knowing how to use the stadi, it is very difficult to get any kind of proper solution. Indeed, seems to me getting accurate range is the key (alongside angle-off-bow) to get proper solutions through the new manual TDC.

I'll try doing waterline-to-funnel with map updates on, and see if it matches.

Itkovian

Is there an 'WO, Identify ship' feature in place?

[ddrgn]

Is there an 'WO, Identify ship' feature in place?

Yep

[Itkovian]

Yep

What is it? how is it used?

Also, when reding from the roof... do you mean you put the crosshairs on the waterline, and then the 2nd horizontal line to the roof?

Itkovian

[joejccva71]

Ok, here is what I have been doing to confirm "where" to take stadimeter reading from.

If you target a ship via the keys and the WO, you can ask for an estimated range reading, he will give you the range, take the stadimeter and line up the water line and find the exact same range by using the stadimeter.

In most cases I have found taking the range from the bridge roofs are best.

Now if I had a lot of time on my hands, which I don't. I would do this for every ship and record the values so I could relay the info to you fine people. I may do it on the weekend.

If you want these keys modded, use my commands keys in my downloads.

I can't even find the Stadi in SH5, nor can find any way to input anything for my firing solution. I have to check my settings and difficulty but I was sure that I set it for 100% realism.

Where can you pull up the stadimeter at and input your firing solution at?

[ddrgn]

What is it? how is it used?

Also, when reding from the roof... do you mean you put the crosshairs on the waterline, and then the 2nd horizontal line to the roof?

Itkovian

For Identify Target you need to add the key, if your not privy on how to enter keys then just use my mod in my downloads.

For those wondering how to edit keys properly here is how you do it:

Find Setkeys 1.3, an old SH3 keys editor. Extract this to a folder. Copy your commands.cfg from your SH5 directory and put it in the folder you extracted Setkeys in too. Now rename your commands.cfg to commands_en.cfg.

Now this part is tricky, load up Setkeys, it asks for the location of your commands.cfg point it to the Setkeys folder and choose commands_en.cfg.

Load up Setkeys program. Now you can change your keys. When done changing keys, save it. After its saved open the commmands_en.cfg and look for your edited commands. Now don't take the whole command as they have changed in SH5, simply take the command key as shown below:

So the command looks something like this:

[Cmd343]
Name=WP_Identify_target
Contexts=1
MnID=0x3F130002
Key0=0x49,s,"SHIFT I"

Take only this part:

Key0=0x49,s,"SHIFT I"

Ok now find your original commands.cfg in SH5 directory. Find [Cmd343] and simply add only the key copy to the bottom of the command. These are just simple hex codes for keys and some people may not even need set keys once they see the key structures. But for me Setkeys does the job. Cudos to the original author.

In regards, to where to place the stadimeter...

You take the 0 horizon line on your scope, align with the waterline and then take the stadimeter line to where ever you believe the range should be taken.

[malkuth74]

It's not just the dots system, everything from the comical crew members to the Tonka-style engine controls to speech bubbles feels like they've moved away from a serious, somber study of submarine operations to a light-hearted, frivolous romp. Like Operation Petticoat for U-Boats. The whole mood of the game strikes me as inappropiate for a subsim.

Shame because the eye-candy, phycisal atmosphere are top-notch.


Yeah don't get me going on how you control the depth.. My god it hardly works.

What ever happened to the simple punching it a Exact dept and going to it.

Now you click on this tiny little graph and if your lucky you might come within 10-20 feet of what you wanted. If the click works at all.

They seriously did take a huge step back in this version. They changed too many things that worked well in the last 2 games. I like the whole crew aspect... But not at the cost of the fuctionality of the last 2 games.

They could of given us the crew and kept the dials, and things from the last 2 games... Change is bad.. LOTS of changes are real bad...

I wish I could talk positive about this game. But its hard. Maybe it will grow on me... :rotfl2:

[ddrgn]

Yeah don't get me going on how you control the depth.. My god it hardly works.

What ever happened to the simple punching it a Exact dept and going to it.

Now you click on this tiny little graph and if your lucky you might come within 10-20 feet of what you wanted. If the click works at all.

They seriously did take a huge step back in this version. They changed too many things that worked well in the last 2 games. I like the whole crew aspect... But not at the cost of the fuctionality of the last 2 games.

They could of given us the crew and kept the dials, and things from the last 2 games... Change is bad.. LOTS of changes are real bad...

I wish I could talk positive about this game. But its hard. Maybe it will grow on me... :rotfl2:

Maintaining depth is a PITA. I can't seem to get that key to work properly.

[Bilge_Rat]

I can't even find the Stadi in SH5, nor can find any way to input anything for my firing solution. I have to check my settings and difficulty but I was sure that I set it for 100% realism.

Where can you pull up the stadimeter at and input your firing solution at?


when you lock onto a ship w. TDC on, your XO will give you a proposed firing solution (look at my screenshot on p.1 for reference). All of the underlined text ( i.e. ship ID, AOB, range, speed) can be modified, just click on the underlined option and it takes you to another drop down menu where you can input data. If you click on "range", it takes you to a menu where you can use the stadimeter or directly type in the range you want.

[Bilge_Rat]

Ok, here is what I have been doing to confirm "where" to take stadimeter reading from.

If you target a ship via the keys and the WO, you can ask for an estimated range reading, he will give you the range, take the stadimeter and line up the water line and find the exact same range by using the stadimeter.

In most cases I have found taking the range from the bridge roofs are best.

Now if I had a lot of time on my hands, which I don't. I would do this for every ship and record the values so I could relay the info to you fine people. I may do it on the weekend.

If you want these keys modded, use my commands keys in my downloads.

you have to take into account the fact that the range the XO gives you is usually fairly off from the real range. You can verify this by comparing the range he gives you with the real range on the map when you have map updates "on".

[ddrgn]

you have to take into account the fact that the range the XO gives you is usually fairly off from the real range. You can verify this by comparing the range he gives you with the real range on the map when you have map updates "on".

Nope, the estimated range is right on everytime....

Check it out:

http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy309/pwc100/SH5Img2010-03-03_110735.jpg
http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy309/pwc100/SH5Img2010-03-03_111029.jpg
http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy309/pwc100/SH5Img2010-03-03_111125.jpg

[Galanti]

Does it seriously say "Roof"?

[ddrgn]

Does it seriously say "Roof"?

huh? thats my comments via the mp game chat

[ddrgn]

Now if your know your course is 0° and his course is 270° and his relative bearing is 50°, you can do the math for angle on the bow.

So its Target True Bearing + (plus) Ships Course - (minus) 180 = AOB Which in our case is:

50 + 270 - 180 = 140 AOB

Now adjust the range and confirm the speed.

Now if your True Target Bearing is 350°, you would simply minus 10 from the formula as so:

10 - 270 - 180 = 80 AOB

hmm you don t need to know the bearing or your course as long as you know his course and what magnetic direction he is in. ( but after all bearing + ship course is the same as magnetic direction).Just felt for underlining that where you point your nose has nothing to do with AOB. Sorry for being difficult..nothing you said was wrong :D

(and sorry for messing up quote arggh how do I quote parts of a text?)

Oh indeed, and thanks, adds to the thread for sure.

[Bilge_Rat]

Nope, the estimated range is right on everytime....

Check it out:



what game settings are you using? is that with your custom keys?

I only see a range estimate when the XO gives me an estimated solution, like so:

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/734/solution001.jpg

[ddrgn]

what game settings are you using? is that with your custom keys?

I only see a range estimate when the XO gives me an estimated solution, like so:



Of course its modded keys, the devs never add this stuff straight out the box... Silent Hunter has always been this way.

[Bilge_Rat]

Of course its modded keys, the devs never add this stuff straight out the box... Silent Hunter has always been this way.


ok, now I understand, we are talking about different things, you mapped and are using the old SH3 key where the WO would give you the range to the TGT. That range is always exact.

I was talking about the range the XO gives you in his estimated solution which is usually way off.

I will retest again the Stadimeter using your method. I really wish the manual would have this info and we did not have to guess what the proper method is. :damn:

[ddrgn]

ok, now I understand, we are talking about different things, you mapped and are using the old SH3 key where the WO would give you the range to the TGT. That range is always exact.

I was talking about the range the XO gives you in his estimated solution which is usually way off.

I will retest again the Stadimeter using your method. I really wish the manual would have this info and we did not have to guess what the proper method is. :damn:

It is quite lame I already miss TMO's nice red lines ;]

[ddrgn]

Something I found in the files:

http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy309/pwc100/torpedofiring.jpg

I dont see these icons much as I hardly use tdc on, it may be possible to just remove those graphics.

[Galanti]

Something I found in the files:


I dont see these icons much as I hardly use tdc on, it may be possible to just remove those graphics.

Yep, but you're still performing the arcadish task of leading the periscope, just as you would lead a target over ironsights in BF2.

It doesn't really matter, I suppose I will just start with manual targetting, I've done it for years with fleet boats in RFB, but I actually like the way it's done in SH5, it's only the esthetics of the interface I have real problem with. I want my old book-style recognition manual at the bottom of the screen.

[ddrgn]

Cool, I have been able to get the XO out of the Periscope screen.

http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy309/pwc100/SH5Img2010-03-03_134915.jpg

Just do this if you hate his face:

C:\Ubisoft\Silent Hunter 5\data\Menu\Skins\German\Gui\Crew

and change watchman.dds to watchman1.dds

and poof no more face :)

[Bilge_Rat]

Something I found in the files:

http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy309/pwc100/torpedofiring.jpg

I dont see these icons much as I hardly use tdc on, it may be possible to just remove those graphics.

That screen is from the manual.

These lines which also show up in the screenshot I posted above only show up if you tell the XO to turn the TDC off and you lock a visual TGT, in which case these easy targeting lines show up.

If you leave the TDC on, (whether manual/auto, map updates on/off ) or do not lock the TGT when you turn the TDC off, these lines never appear, which is what I do, although I would love to get rid of them altogether in my instal.

[malkuth74]

Hey DDRGN I hate to ask you of this but you seem smart. LOL,

Do you think you can come up with a tuturial on how to use the Manual TDC. When I mean Tuturial... Basically a TDC for dummies like me.

I can't stand the AUTO TDC.. So now I want to learn the Manual one... But all those things you said with math and stuff.... Well kinda went over my head. I think I almost felt sick.. LOL.

But you now start from the basics.

Or anyone for that matter. Us Old Auto Guys that can't stand the new system need a little more then connecting the dots. So thanks if you decide to help.

[ddrgn]

Sure maybe a pictorial would help ;)

To be honest I learned everything I know from the guys here on Subsim.

Some of it basic, some it not so much.....

Give me a bit as I am still on the clock here hehe

[Itkovian]

I second that: a SH5 manual TDC tutorial would be a godsend to a great many players.

Itkovian

[sergei]

The fast 90 attack a la SH3 still works a treat.
I have been having great success with this.

[Frederf]

Yeah, but that line should have 5 syllables, not 7. :up:

I tried 7-5-7... is it 5-7-5? Dyslexia.

It's nice that after about 20 complete off topic phules rushed through blabbing about their pint-sized knowledge of manual targeting in an attempt to brag thinly disguised as advice some people took time out of their busy day, went back up, read the original post, and actually provided some information re: the point.

[digitizedsoul]

Like to tell the devs something... When its not broke don't fix it. Auto TDC worked fine in the last 2 games. Why did you go and make this boehamouth carppy new system for.

Alright I played around with it a little a figured it out. You have to basically play connect the freaking dots with AUTO TDC. In this case connect the numbers.

Don't use TDC ON. Bad for auto...
1. Set your torpedo speed for it reaches the ship numbers on the Tac Map. Matters how close you are.

Now line up the closes two numbers to each other and push the stupid fire button.

Connect the dots. You have about a 75% chance of hitting it at this point.

Good luck.

What a crappy system.. My god nothing wrong with the old way,,, It made us feel special... Like we could do it, when we could not. This dot system is a freaking joke.

Now I have to learn manual.. Because Now it makes me feel to stupid... LOL.

Auto connect the dots they should call it. What a disgrace.


LOL Not only am I still laughing, but truer words were never spoken...

[sergei]

Or you could use the Fast 90. Works a treat.

[malkuth74]

Or you could use the Fast 90. Works a treat.


whats a fast 90. You got my attention.

[sergei]

Yep, works.
Not quite as intuitive, cos you can't see the dials, but tell the annoying officer who pops up in the periscope your bearing, AOB, range and speed and it is a fast 90.

AOB changes to reflect your periscope bearing.

Again, you cannot see this diredctly. But I have checked. Change your bearing, then check the AOB, you will see it has changed to reflect the new AOB.

[Johnyy]

Damn this is weird. I'm new to this sim and none of it is making sense. To return to the initial query, I have it set to auto and can't get any feeling for how to target

Mostly my torpedoes miss, but I have had one hit. Heres some of the problems:

Sometimes the torpedoes leave the boat on the same bearing of the boat

Sometimes they leave the boat at an angle

The gizmo for choosing the range of the target seems to have no options except match the shape of the ship - you move the mouse up and the overlaid image matches the target. But there seems to be no control over waterline or bridge roof height. Consequently the range to target never seems to change

--

I thought this sim would be interesting, but it does not seem to behave in any kind of intuitive manner. Surely dumb torpedoes leave the sub in the direction it is pointing. So why do they go off at an angle if it is in anyway an accurate representation

[kylania]

whats a fast 90. You got my attention.

"Fast 90" is when you set yourself up at a perfect 90 degree angle, around 800m from the path of travel of your target. Depending on it's speed you'll fire around 10-20 degrees before they reach 0 (depending on their direction of travel).

What's nice about this is three things. 1) range doesn't matter, it's all angles so range cancels out 2) you preset everything in your TDC and don't touch it. Set Range to 800, set AOB to 90, set speed to whatever they are moving at then 3) watch the Gyroangle. It'll read 000 when your periscope is pointing at the proper bearing so that whatever it's pointing at will be hit by the time that part hits 000 bearing from your ship. The torpedo simply swims in a straight line.

I'd posted a picture of this kind of attack (http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/8328/fast90.jpg) in the screenshot thread.

[Vikinger]

Its so easy in auto mode.

Dont get blinded of thos 1,2 .3 dots you se. They are ther just as a reference.

Se the lines as a measurement instead.

Imagine the lines as a measurment tape whit out the dots and numbers.

When the ships line cross yours at same point, let say 2,5 inces or, 2,5 cm (what you prefer), fire the torps.

Iol guess we soon will se a mod that converts thos 1,2,3 dot line to a measurement tape

[simsurfer]

If your like me and Want to use Auto TDC, you have GOT to read this thread: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=165015

Forget lining up the numbered circles, that is old skool. Read the article at: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=165015

Read it a few times, then try it, I almost NEVER miss! Even at ranges over 3000 yards.

[Frederf]

I haven't given it proper thought but my inkling is that the "1, 2, 3 dots" are not "auto-TDC." Auto-TDC is when you have targeting help on in the difficulty options and you select the "TDC On" option from the XO dialog. The "1, 2, 3 dots" method shows up the same no matter if your difficulty setting is 0% Easy or 100% Real.

If you use the actual Auto-TDC, not the 1, 2, 3 dots, then you can see behavior that is kind of like the old SH3/SH4 method with the green/yellow/red solution triangles and some automatic TDC info entry.

Thing is that this method appears to be only partially functional. Not all of the values are auto-entered like they used to in SH3/SH4. If you autopilot as if it was the SH3/SH4 assisted targeting method then I think the speed/AoB isn't entered so you always end up shooting at a mathematically stationary target, thus missing well behind on normal, moving targets.

[das numnutz]

I second that: a SH5 manual TDC tutorial would be a godsend to a great many players.

Itkovian


I wholeheartedly second this motion. A lot of the techniques presented in this thread (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=146795&highlight=fast+90) are useful but it would be nice if the kind Subsim veterans could collaborate on a comprehensive, SH5 dedicated, quadruple Ts thread (Targeting Tips, Tricks, Tutorials). :rock:

[DarthVrooks]

I haven't given it proper thought but my inkling is that the "1, 2, 3 dots" are not "auto-TDC." Auto-TDC is when you have targeting help on in the difficulty options and you select the "TDC On" option from the XO dialog. The "1, 2, 3 dots" method shows up the same no matter if your difficulty setting is 0% Easy or 100% Real.

If you use the actual Auto-TDC, not the 1, 2, 3 dots, then you can see behavior that is kind of like the old SH3/SH4 method with the green/yellow/red solution triangles and some automatic TDC info entry.

Thing is that this method appears to be only partially functional. Not all of the values are auto-entered like they used to in SH3/SH4. If you autopilot as if it was the SH3/SH4 assisted targeting method then I think the speed/AoB isn't entered so you always end up shooting at a mathematically stationary target, thus missing well behind on normal, moving targets.

I just got SH5 today and have the same problem myself with the auto-TDC missing aft of the target. I guess it's time to try a different shooting method.

edit: In auto the target's speed is showing 0.

[Dissaray]

"Fast 90" is when you set yourself up at a perfect 90 degree angle, around 800m from the path of travel of your target. Depending on it's speed you'll fire around 10-20 degrees before they reach 0 (depending on their direction of travel).

What's nice about this is three things. 1) range doesn't matter, it's all angles so range cancels out 2) you preset everything in your TDC and don't touch it. Set Range to 800, set AOB to 90, set speed to whatever they are moving at then 3) watch the Gyroangle. It'll read 000 when your periscope is pointing at the proper bearing so that whatever it's pointing at will be hit by the time that part hits 000 bearing from your ship. The torpedo simply swims in a straight line.

I'd posted a picture of this kind of attack (http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/8328/fast90.jpg) in the screenshot thread.

You cand use this method for any range of attack too. The range seting isn't realy all that important, as long as you are within a few hundred meters of the actual distance to the target you are good to go. Using this method you can easyly hit targets from 2km, you could even go from maximum range of the torpidos with this if you wanted, though closer is obviously easyer.

[Redwake]

Don't feel bad. Juat had a target at 800 meters and all four are a dud and the ship turns on a ****ing dime and rams me destroying my sub. Honestly I thought I'd be happy with twos but I'm thinking of just shelving this game after that.

Upon this happening I chucked my mouse down and I guess I broke it. So deffently no more sh5 for me. Go figure. Go out of my way to try and get this game to run and it's been a constant **** show. Maybe I should of took it as a sign not to play this game wit how diffuclt it was to even get it running.

[vdr1981]

Maybe I should of took it as a sign not to play this game wit how diffuclt it was to even get it running.

Don't get me wrong, but I think that you should, definitely...Simulations by the definition require some patience which is clearly missing here. There is a perfectly logical reason why you wasted all of your torpedoes but I won't bother to explain you because it would be quite pointless in this case. Maybe you should stick with World of War****s...

Sorry about your mouse though...

[Redwake]

Don't get me wrong, but I think that you should, definitely...Simulations by the definition require some patience which is clearly missing here. There is a perfectly logical reason why you wasted all of your torpedoes but I won't bother to explain you because it would be quite pointless in this case. Maybe you should stick with World of War****s...

Sorry about your mouse though...

Duds... that's the logic. And my patience was gone at that point.. had a rather **** day that day before hand. But nice way to cover the salt with a remark about my mouse.

[xfiles]

Hi

in auto-tdc I can´t se the the little 1,2,3-circle method for Torpedo aiming in the attackmap, how do I activate this in wolwes of steele ?? sh5