Eraser goes through german UBI Forum...

[urfisch]

i just noticed, that there is a great cleaning process taking place. many users have been suspended and many threads have been closed or deleted in the german ubi SH5 forum. especially the threads regarding DRM...or threads with criticism against UBIs policy.

bad strategy for a big company...to lock out the criticism...instead of commenting these things. unprofessional, unfair and desctructive...

:nope:

[martes86]

If they do that, I really doubt they'll be hearing any anti-drm petitions any time soon, no matter the number of signers. :hmmm:

[Ragtag]

Well, they ain't building a customerbase by banning and suspending customers. After all it's our money that makes their living.
I'm strongly considering boycotting all games from Ubisoft in the future permanently. Some of my friends are considering doing the same. No matter how good the games are.
Ubisoft is also hurting the sales for the game-developers. Hopefully developers around the world find someone else to do businness with in the future.

[Letum]

We are lucky we don't need to rely on the SHV forums.


...how about a German Subsim section?

[PhantomLord]

Oh dear... just checked ubi forums... :nope:
This is definitely not the way to tell the people "don´t spam" or keep the forums clean of useless things. No explanations and some... let´s say snotty replys.

User: "thread xyz is gone"
UBI: "thanks for your feedback" What the hell?

Try to imagine i´ll do that in my repair shop...

[Kretschmer the IV]

i just wrote a thread to say farewell to the forum, after 5 years membership.
Mentioning the weird methods and comparing it with the GeStaPo, 5 minutes later the thread was deleted. :down:

[Rapt0r56]

...how about a German Subsim section?
Yep, we need a German Subsection here! :yep:

[Onkel Neal]

That's always the weakness of the corporate forum. Which is why I always wonder about the small group at the English Ubi SH forums who complain about "why does Subsim get content and news before us?" First, it's not true this time, because Ubisoft has decided to neglect their relationship with Subsim (shrug), and second, anything they post there is done under the corporate banner.

You can post your gripes here, we won't go through the forum with an eraser. Just try to make your point with some reason and maturity, and please don't topic spam (make the same post over and over in different threads).

danke :salute:
Neal

[GertFroebe_neu]

How about germans learning english? ;)

PS.: Just kidding.

[PhantomLord]

How about germans learning english? ;)

That´s why we are here :D

[rcjonessnp175]

this is ridiculous:down:

[Schunken]

Naja, da sind aber auch ein paar ganz schöne Spacken zugange. Bin da gar nicht registriert, ist ein Kindergarten....

Hmmm...quite some Idiot-Users over there. I even not gegistered. UBI.de Forum its mostly a Kindergarten....


Andreas

[Bilge_Rat]

Not to defend Ubisoft, but the primary purpose of a developper's/publisher's forum is to help sell its games. Posters have no rights or freedom and can only post with the permission of the forum owner. He always has to walk the fine line between allowing unfettered discussions or cracking down on users, posts or threads which give an unfairly negative view of their game.

It's a catch-22 situation, if you have too little moderation, you risk having a large number of negative posts, since users usually post to complain, which would give an unfavorable view of the game to potential buyers and hurt sales of the game. On the other hand, if you have too much moderation, close threads and ban posters, you risk creating a backlash among more moderate posters,which would give an unfavorable view of the game to potential buyers and also hurt sales of the game.

You will always have more free and open discussions on a board like this one which is not affiliated with any developper/publisher.

I presume that since SH5 is being launched next week, Ubisoft decided to "purge" their forum in anticipation of the influx of potential customers.

[Brag]

When large corporations and governments resort to censorship, they become deaf. Eventually discontent takes them by surprise and they wonder why they have the proverbial noose around their necks.

[OakGroove]

Naja, da sind aber auch ein paar ganz schöne Spacken zugange. Bin da gar nicht registriert, ist ein Kindergarten....

Bedauerlicherweise wurden mit den Zündel-Beiträgen auch zahlreiche legitim vorgetragene Anliegen ignoriert und weggesperrt.

Just for kicks, via Babelfish:

Regrettably with the Zündel contributions also numerous legitimately put forward requests were ignored and away-closed.

[Adriatico]

Surprise, surprise... ;)
Gestapo is never far away from Kriegsmarine!

So Neal, I'm afraid you're the next one... :dead::dead::dead:

[Schunken]

I would not use the Terrm "Gestapo" that easily.

Gestapo was not simply delete posts out of a message board - Gestapo was kill men, women and even childs.... so lets use this term in respect of their victims....


Andreas

[rcjonessnp175]

Lets not get to sensitive :nope:

[Sharkfin]

I was never registered to the german SH Ubi forum, but read in it on occasion.
Really though what happenes there with deleting threads by the mods.
Its a shame that such a good franchise like Silent Hunter gets so many negative publicity because of Ubis OSP/DRM.

Thank God the Subsim forum exists! :up:

[Kretschmer the IV]

Thank God the Subsim forum exists!

:sign_yeah::agree:

[scrapser]

This is very interesting. Last night I was on the Official Ubisoft site for Silent Hunter 5 and noticed the biggest thread on the site was people expressing their dislike of the new DRM. It had close to 400 posts and was roughly twice the size of the next largest thread.

[derblaueClaus]

hmm I can understand UBI a little bit. Not in a whole but a little. The posters exaggerated to much in posts against DRM. In both, quality and quantity. Not to mention the behavior between some members among each other.
On the other hand it is not very clever to close threads and clean up the forum in a cloak and dagger operation without warning the members that are affected (wich they hadn't as far as i can see). I mean you can't manage a forum like this. No wounder people don't like that method and blame you for it.

[Heretic]

Perhaps the people who wanted to talk about the game (ie their customers) were getting constantly shouted down by people who aren't buying the game (ie not their customers). :hmmm:

[Adriatico]

I would not use the Terrm "Gestapo" that easily.

Gestapo was not simply delete posts out of a message board - Gestapo was kill men, women and even childs.... so lets use this term in respect of their victims....


Andreas

Oh really ? Who would say that... ?
And Kriegsmarine was shooting virtual convoys scripted by Ubisoft ?

If You don't understand symbolism of this forum's "vocabulary" - you can join Tom&Jerry cartoons forum... it's all straight and fair.
:03:

[FIREWALL]

I'm not going to look for any excuses for Ubisoft. :nope:

They did a Bonehead move and their Offical website speaks for itself.:yep:

Predicting their sale loss is, like predicting the Lottery numbers.

Only time will tell.

I have no doubts that other game publishers are watching this closely.

[OakGroove]

Perhaps the people who wanted to talk about the game (ie their customers) were getting constantly shouted down by people who aren't buying the game (ie not their customers). :hmmm:

From what i´ve seen most flak was aimed at the company, to include moderators. While the anger is understandable from my perspective, i wouldn't be as thick as to create an account on corp. forums, deploy the flamethrower, and expect to come back later for another session. Some people were seemingly not operating with a full deck. Of the posts locked/deleted - some were ill-presented, not all. Voicing legit concerns, shouldn't be met by silence, or some witty remark by a forum mod. It contributed to escalating things over there.

[ERPP8]

That's why 3rd person organizations like subsim are great

[Schunken]

...dont take it too personal Adriatico... !!!

but Gestapo shoot civiliance and poeple who resist....Kriegsmarine shoot at ships that (even later in the war) was escorted and sometimes equipped with one or to cannons....

Gestapo really was the lowest level that menkind can become...

Maybe I too sensitives because my Grandpa was go to Gestapo-jail and never was seen again, but this is another story...

...it was just a generally public remeinder.... , ok?


Andreas

[msalama]

Gestapo really was the lowest level that menkind can become...

I agree absolutely - and offer my deepest condolences for the tragic loss of your grandfather - but please remember still that it's common parlance to use expressions like "language nazi" when referring to someone who's a stickler for grammar. A tad unthoughtful, yes, but there's precious little one can really do even then...

Sorry for the digression guys, please carry on :D

[scrapser]

I'll say this again here since I don't see anyone mentioning the fact that Ubisoft is not the only company using this new "constant online connection" approach. Take Two (parent of 2K Games) is also using it and they are catching it from every direction, too.

[Nisgeis]

I wonder if Ubisoft will try to pressure Amazon and other online sites that offer user reviews to remove the zero rated reviews for the implementation of DRM & OSP?

Does deleting threads equate to burning books?

[jazman]

How about germans learning english? ;)

PS.: Just kidding.

I've found that it's easier for me to understand Germans speaking English than to understand English speaking English. (I'm American.)

[Wilcke]

I wonder if Ubisoft will try to pressure Amazon and other online sites that offer user reviews to remove the zero rated reviews for the implementation of DRM & OSP?

Does deleting threads equate to burning books?

Don't think they will, Amazon is a powerhouse retailer that dwarfs an UBI. I look up products that I am contemplating purchasing on Amazon and when I read the review I just shake my head and walk away.

Here is a good example of Amazon at work the LotR, Blu-Ray Theatrical release is set for 4-10. It got thrashed because they are holding onto the Extended Version until next year! So it got over 2000 negative reviews pre-release. It will not sell and folks will just wait till 2011!

http://www.amazon.com/Lord-Rings-Picture-Theatrical-Editions/dp/B000X9FLKM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1267209523&sr=8-1

Some products get royally trashed on Amazon, Amazon could care less, they just want to sell. When I put together my HTPC I followed Amazon customer recommendations and chose Pioneer over Denon and Onkyo. I have never regretted the decision. The customer reviews were spot on!

As far as deleting unwanted threads, its their forum, its certainly poor form, and if the customer is always right, they have broken the first and only rule. All you can do is spend your money elsewhere.

[Rockin Robbins]

Agreed, Brag. They forget that the customer always gets what they want from someone willing and able to produce it. The process is sometimes slow and a bit painful, but it always works.

You'll remember that the PC architecture was begun as a closed box IBM machine, which kept all PCs manufactured by a single company, which was slow to provide for the needs of its customers. Then Compaq and others started producing IBM compatible machines, thousands of companies began making superhuman efforts to attract your business and provide new features. The result is the PC you likely have in front of you or in your lap, a machine undreamed of by its original corporate masters.

Economics and evolution are similar in that any vacuum represents an opportunity for some species to occupy a place in the food chain that lacks competition.

Look at the way Aldi has moved into the US after cleaning Wal-Mart's clock in Germany. You can save at least 20% over similar products at Wal-Mart and usually get better quality. Wal-Mart arrogantly lost billions of dollars in Germany. Unable to compete with Aldi, it had to liquidate all German property and move out of the country. Quietly, in the US, Aldi is occupying the vacant low price/high market efficiency position vacated by the now-fat monster. They may only sell food, but that is enough to give Wal-Mart a colossal headache.

Customers hate a company who doesn't meet their needs and refuses to care about the people who send them money. Companies who go the Ubi path are dead men walking. Hope they realize their missteps and reverse course, but that is almost never the case. The larger a company gets, the smaller their brain gets and the longer a message takes to get from the field to the corporate moguls. Conformity takes the place of innovation and customer focus. Finally you can sledge-hammer the tail of the dinosaur and a couple of months later the head says "Ouch!" I hear they DO make very tender and tasty steaks.:D

[tommyk]

How about germans learning english? ;)


trying but the sauerkraut makes it dufficilt :)

[kylania]

I'll say this again here since I don't see anyone mentioning the fact that Ubisoft is not the only company using this new "constant online connection" approach. Take Two (parent of 2K Games) is also using it and they are catching it from every direction, too.

The main difference is Take Two doesn't make anything I want to play. :haha:
Not to mention their entirely flash driven websites are total junk.

I really do feel bad for the Devs though. They made another GREAT game, but because their publisher is the Devil they might fail because the only way to get back at the publisher in this case is through the Developer. :(

[coronas]

Does deleting threads equate to burning books?

That´s a begining. :nope:

[Nisgeis]

Here is a good example of Amazon at work the LotR, Blu-Ray Theatrical release is set for 4-10. It got thrashed because they are holding onto the Extended Version until next year! So it got over 2000 negative reviews pre-release. It will not sell and folks will just wait till 2011!

Well that's good, I hate all that theatrical release, then the director's cut, then the 'ultimate cut' version. That's piracy :D. Especially when they film all the 'deleted scenes' only so they can put them in for the 'director's cut'.

[scrapser]

Agreed, Brag. They forget that the customer always gets what they want from someone willing and able to produce it. The process is sometimes slow and a bit painful, but it always works.

You'll remember that the PC architecture was begun as a closed box IBM machine, which kept all PCs manufactured by a single company, which was slow to provide for the needs of its customers. Then Compaq and others started producing IBM compatible machines, thousands of companies began making superhuman efforts to attract your business and provide new features. The result is the PC you likely have in front of you or in your lap, a machine undreamed of by its original corporate masters.

Economics and evolution are similar in that any vacuum represents an opportunity for some species to occupy a place in the food chain that lacks competition.

Look at the way Aldi has moved into the US after cleaning Wal-Mart's clock in Germany. You can save at least 20% over similar products at Wal-Mart and usually get better quality. Wal-Mart arrogantly lost billions of dollars in Germany. Unable to compete with Aldi, it had to liquidate all German property and move out of the country. Quietly, in the US, Aldi is occupying the vacant low price/high market efficiency position vacated by the now-fat monster. They may only sell food, but that is enough to give Wal-Mart a colossal headache.

Customers hate a company who doesn't meet their needs and refuses to care about the people who send them money. Companies who go the Ubi path are dead men walking. Hope they realize their missteps and reverse course, but that is almost never the case. The larger a company gets, the smaller their brain gets and the longer a message takes to get from the field to the corporate moguls. Conformity takes the place of innovation and customer focus. Finally you can sledge-hammer the tail of the dinosaur and a couple of months later the head says "Ouch!" I hear they DO make very tender and tasty steaks.:D


Actually IBM willfully sold (licensed) the blueprint for their computer so others could produce them; hence the term, "IBM Clone". The thinking was that if there were lots and lots of IBM type computers out there, all the software development companies would focus on producing IBM compatible software. It worked in the United States. In Europe at the same time, the Commodore Amiga was the leading platform of choice. What killed the Amiga was the company's owner who made horrible business decisions that overextended the company's finances and they went bankrupt.

Think about it. The Amiga was a 16 bit computer with a Windows like operating system (called Workbench) with onboard sound and graphics in 1985! Windows 3.0 and a 16 bit PC didn't arrive until the early 90's.

I miss Amiga sorely.

[Task Force]

Wow... Ubi is acting like a censor...:-? Not good...

[jwilliams]

I miss Amiga sorely.

Me too.:DL


I had a 500+ with 2megs of ram :yeah:

And windows reminds me of the Amiga's operating system (not sure if microsoft copied it but its very similar).

[GoldenRivet]

Well... that settles it.

that is where I draw my line in the sand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGIY5Vyj4YM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_qgVn-Op7Q)

view this message above... and take something from it

to each true fan of the submarine simulation series... you know what you have to do. ;)

[urfisch]

Well... that settles it.

that is where I draw my line in the sand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGIY5Vyj4YM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_qgVn-Op7Q)

view this message above... and take something from it

to each true fan of the submarine simulation series... you know what you have to do. ;)

mad to see it already was shown in 1976 and nothing changed...its the same today. people are too tired to stand up and yell or do something against the global cheekiness from the elite...

i think, finally everybody will stand up...but this first gonna happen, when we cant sit in our chairs any more, cause we have such aching backs from a sit-job and a bad health system. and finally theres no more money to buy a chair, or we are simply all the time out to earn the money, so we might could buy a chair, but we never will.

life is definately getting mad...is just a question of time, people will recognize, how we are all squeezed out to the last cent.

[The Enigma]

"I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!"

[Wraithe]

Hopefully nobody expects more from ubi really... This was floating about on the AC2 forums on steam:
http://www.destructoid.com/ubisoft-demands-high-assassin-s-creed-2-review-score--154456.phtml

My other UbiFail news:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2008/07/ubisoft-drm-snafu-reminds-us-whats-wrong-with-pc-gaming.ars

[tommyk]

"I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!"

[Noren]

ok that does it! Demanding good reviews?!?!

I sure hope its a big misunderstanding or out of proportion because this
is so unetical. Perhaps ubisoft is like the king in disneys Robin Hood, caring
only for the money.

[urfisch]

Hopefully nobody expects more from ubi really... This was floating about on the AC2 forums on steam:
http://www.destructoid.com/ubisoft-demands-high-assassin-s-creed-2-review-score--154456.phtml

My other UbiFail news:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2008/07/ubisoft-drm-snafu-reminds-us-whats-wrong-with-pc-gaming.ars

this makes me speechless...although i often thought of an ubi strategy like that.

:nope:

[Catfish]

Now this is really outrageous - not that it's not a perfect example for capitalism gone wild, but the audacity shown is indeed stunning.
As someone in the article said: Time for action.
Greetings,
Catfish

[Rockin Robbins]

Capitalism is the only system that guarantees that the customer gets what he needs. It does this by ensuring the demise of companies which aren't worthy of receiving your money. As long as money is voluntarily transferred from customers to vendors, the customer is King.

The ultimate power is in your pocket. Surely there is something else to spend your money on other than Silent Hunter 5: Big Brother is Watching that will make you feel much better. My money is staying in my pocket on this one. I smell dead meat.

SH3 and SH4 rock anyway and I don't see any reason to downgrade.

[Armistead]

Capitalism is the only system that guarantees that the customer gets what he needs. It does this by ensuring the demise of companies which aren't worthy of receiving your money. As long as money is voluntarily transferred from customers to vendors, the customer is King.

The ultimate power is in your pocket. Surely there is something else to spend your money on other than Silent Hunter 5: Big Brother is Watching that will make you feel much better. My money is staying in my pocket on this one. I smell dead meat.

SH3 and SH4 rock anyway and I don't see any reason to downgrade.

My guess is most that say they won't buy..will anyway and that's OK and Ubi will continue with DRM. I am one that won't...not for a long time and I believe you won't either. Eventually I'll find it in a bargain bin. I would still buy the game if it came out with poor reviews and the usual complaints and gladly wait for patches and mods. I would feel I owed that to support the game, but I can't deal with these other tactics.

[Steeltrap]

My guess is most that say they won't buy..will anyway and that's OK and Ubi will continue with DRM. I am one that won't...not for a long time and I believe you won't either. Eventually I'll find it in a bargain bin. I would still buy the game if it came out with poor reviews and the usual complaints and gladly wait for patches and mods. I would feel I owed that to support the game, but I can't deal with these other tactics.

I have no intention of buying SH5, especially with DRM. While I have a stable ADSL 2+ connection, it's the principle to which I object.

I don't say it endlessly as I said it once or twice in appropriate threads. I'm happy to participate in discussions about aspects of the game, and am interested in hearing fellow subsimmers discuss playing, but I will not alter my attitude to that DRM on a single-player game.

As for 'purging' forums, CA/SEGA did the same thing in the Total War forum after Empire was shown to be a buggy piece of tripe. The funnuest part was moderators of the 'official' board getting slammed when they posted on the 'TW Center' forums over which they had no control.

[Factor]

http://www.destructoid.com/ubisoft-demands-high-assassin-s-creed-2-review-score--154456.phtml


This has to be illegal, or against better business bureau. Wow, just wow. :down:. Seriously considering not supporting Ubi anymore. Or gaming in general if this is the wave of the future. A-mazing!!!

[Factor]

By the way, wonder if Ubi had the same "review policy", with the title, Brothers in Arms HH. It was getting 9.5 scores on some sites, and that game was a total letdown, after YEARS of delays.:down: That title by itself may have killed of the BIA series. Haven't heard anything of another sequel to think otherwise.

[Wraithe]

By the way, wonder if Ubi had the same "review policy", with the title, Brothers in Arms HH. It was getting 9.5 scores on some sites, and that game was a total letdown, after YEARS of delays.:down: That title by itself may have killed of the BIA series. Haven't heard anything of another sequel to think otherwise.

Wouldn't be surprised some of the articles on this subject said ubisoft had been doing it for a long time and it's not just ubisoft doing it. This is why there are so many preorder exclusives nowadays so that they can sell the game before the true reviews start coming out.

[malkuth74]

Well since SH5 is the last game from UBI I will ever buy because of the online activation.

I don't see UBI in the PC market much longer.

Unless they change.

[Rockin Robbins]

http://www.destructoid.com/ubisoft-demands-high-assassin-s-creed-2-review-score--154456.phtml


This has to be illegal, or against better business bureau. Wow, just wow. :down:. Seriously considering not supporting Ubi anymore. Or gaming in general if this is the wave of the future. A-mazing!!!

You read that stuff and only have to CONSIDER it? No wonder Sony and Apple are still in business. People don't recognize pure evil when they see it, or if they do they don't care.

I believe some sort of cloud computing for just about all applications is inevitable and good, so long as it is done with respect for customers. It is obvious now that Ubi sees us only as criminals, not as fans or friends or customers, but only as victims. This victimization is voluntary, however, and Ubi deserves to crater big time.

This is one concentration camp they can't force you to enter. But once in, you may find it difficult to leave. What you are willing to pay for, you will see more of and more extremely evil variations of. Consider carefully before you send them your money. You are paying for the end of your ownership of your computer. And the end of my right to own my computer too.

Contrary to the sign on the gate, work (or play) in this camp will not make you free.

[danasan]

Erasing goes on there. Even at the moment. Even for linking to a critical test / newspaper article dealing with DRM and stuff like that. Even if there is no impolite comment from the poster. That is irritating me...

Burning books... yeah

concentration camp...

[Onkel Neal]

Ok, we can start a Subsim German forum, and I will add a few moderators.

Please understand while Subsim has no problem with people being critical, we do want to keep discussion on an intellegent level. We do not want the forum to look like a YouTube comments page (http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments&v=PXepo5OmUu0&fromurl=/watch%3Fv%3DPXepo5OmUu0). If the discussions drop to that level, forum closed.

That also includes topic spamming: a guy posting the same comments in many threads, or a guy starting many threads on the same topic. Do not topic spam.:03:

No porn.
No really bad language.
No personal attacks, trolling, or flaming.
And no discussion of pirating games, cracks, where or how to get them.

If we're good on those few rules, I can move forward. Can someone translate into German for me? :salute:

[msalama]

http://www.destructoid.com/ubisoft-d...--154456.phtml (http://www.destructoid.com/ubisoft-demands-high-assassin-s-creed-2-review-score--154456.phtml)
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2...-pc-gaming.ars (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2008/07/ubisoft-drm-snafu-reminds-us-whats-wrong-with-pc-gaming.ars)


That does it. After reading through this lot I refuse to have _anything_ to do with UBI anymore. And that includes buying SH5.

[danasan]

Ok, we can start a Subsim German forum, and I will add a few moderators.

Please understand while Subsim has no problem with people being critical, we do want to keep discussion on an intellegent level. We do not want the forum to look like a YouTube comments page (http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments&v=PXepo5OmUu0&fromurl=/watch%3Fv%3DPXepo5OmUu0). If the discussions drop to that level, forum closed.

That also includes topic spamming: a guy posting the same comments in many threads, or a guy starting many threads on the same topic. Do not topic spam.:03:

No porn.
No really bad language.
No personal attacks, trolling, or flaming.
And no discussion of pirating games, cracks, where or how to get them.

If we're good on those few rules, I can move forward. Can someone translate into German for me? :salute:


OK, wir können ein deutschsprachiges SubSim Forum starten und ich werde einige Moderatoren hinzufügen.

Nimm bitte zur Kenntnis, dass SubSim keine Probleme mit kritischen Menschen hat, aber wir möchten auch, dass die Diskussion auf einem intelligenten Niveau ist ( und bleibt). Wir wollen keinesfalls dass dieses Forum wie diese Kommentarseite von YouTube aussieht. (Link bitte klicken (http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments&v=PXepo5OmUu0&fromurl=/watch%3Fv%3DPXepo5OmUu0)). Sollte die Diskussion auf ein derartiges Niveau fallen -- Forum dicht!

:03:

Dies betrifft auch "topic spamming": Wer dieselben Kommentare in verschiedenen threads postet oder verschiedene threads mit demselben Inhalt eröffnet. Keinen topic spam!

Keine Pornographie !
Keine wirklich üblen Ausdrücke !
Keine persönlichen Angriffe, "trolling", "flaming" !
Und keine Diskussion über Softwarepiraterie, Cracks, wo man wie welche erhält usw. !

Wenn wir uns auf diese wenigen Regeln einigen können, kann ich fortfahren.

:salute:


Thank you sooo much, Neal!

with the best wishes for that thing and for you

danasan

[Onkel Neal]

Thank you, that was fast!

And of course, we always rely on the level-headed members to help shape the tone of the forum and keep things running smoothly, as much as the moderators.

:salute:

[Sailor Steve]

Think about it. The Amiga was a 16 bit computer with a Windows like operating system (called Workbench) with onboard sound and graphics in 1985! Windows 3.0 and a 16 bit PC didn't arrive until the early 90's.

I miss Amiga sorely.
I feel the same way about Atari. My 520ST was light-years ahead of the 486 at the same time. I still have it, though it truly is outdated now. You have to wonder where those guys would be now if they had more business savvy.

[magic452]

Steve I had that exact some Atari 520ST and felt the same about it.
Still have mine as well. Played Silent Service on it and loved it.

On topic I wont buy SH5 for a verity of reasons but mostly because of OSP
and UBI's attitude towards sim gamers.

From all I've seen I like SH4 much better. The fully modded game is fun to play. Might even try SH3 if I feel a U boat moment coming on.

Magic

[scrapser]

I feel the same way about Atari. My 520ST was light-years ahead of the 486 at the same time. I still have it, though it truly is outdated now. You have to wonder where those guys would be now if they had more business savvy.

I wonder about them too. I have the "Amiga Forever" emulator from Cloanto. It came with a DVD of a video one of the Amiga employees made at the factory on its last day in business. He walks around showing you the whole facility and the best part was when he walked through the R&D lab. There on the bench was an Amiga with a CD drive! It never made it to production obviously.

I forgot to mention in my description of where Amiga was back in 1985 that it was already using 4096 colors for graphics. Stack that up against Windows incredible 256 colors...LOL. I guess the world just didn't deserve Amiga or Atari back then.

[Yak]

This thread reminds me of the whole Empire: Total War fiasco.

First there was the purging of legitimate posts and anything even remotely, in the most abstract way critical of the game or steam.

Then there is the case of what was also obviously bribing reviewers (The game to this day doesn't work properly - and I don't mean a little buggy, it is completely screwed) and it was worse on release, yet it got solid 9 or 9.5 out of 10 reviews from everywhere...
Even on the official boards, the fanboys lament that it isn't working to this day...
Nothing fishy went on there...

[Schunken]

...and do not forget most games magazines for 3-5 bucks needs the commercials og the game industry to "survife"

If there would be a gamers magazine without any commercials for twenty Euros I would buy it. Because than they can be really objective...

Andreas

[Rockin Robbins]

But in spite of all this despicable behavior on the part of Ubisoft, over in the "I got it" and "Got the game today" threads:

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/WHEEEE1.gif

And this includes people with "think about what you're doing before you buy SH5" signature pics. That's as embarrassing as running around today with an Obama bumper sticker!:har:

Where are our principles? Are we willing to sell our freedom so cheaply, even to pay to have it taken from us? I'm afraid the verdict is in and it isn't good. An educated consumer acting responsibly is the bedrock of capitalism. Without it, the whole system crashes. Enjoy the carnage. I choose not to participate. Ubi can change its ways or I've bought my last Ubi product.

[Arclight]

Jeesh, little overdramatic, don't you think?

Dragon Age has the same requirement if you install any DLC: have to be logged in or you won't be able to play with it. The fact that it is that way is never pointed out, a complete surprise after installing any DLC. And yet, noone cares.

The only difference is that Ubi is actually honest about it, and applies it to all their products. ****storm ensues.

For the record, I don't agree with OSP. It's simply unfair against people who can't meet the requirements... like keeping up with the hardware isn't enough. But I doubt it will be the end of our freedom and/or capitalism. :-?

[Wraithe]

Jeesh, little overdramatic, don't you think?

Dragon Age has the same requirement if you install any DLC: have to be logged in or you won't be able to play with it. The fact that it is that way is never pointed out, a complete surprise after installing any DLC. And yet, noone cares.

The only difference is that Ubi is actually honest about it, and applies it to all their products. ****storm ensues.

For the record, I don't agree with OSP. It's simply unfair against people who can't meet the requirements... like keeping up with the hardware isn't enough. But I doubt it will be the end of our freedom and/or capitalism. :-?

Well the Dragon Age thing is absolutely not the same, you can still play the full game without being online as long as you haven't used any of the DLCs requiring authentication. I was even playing DAO offline in Steam offline mode when the internet was down a day, so nothing similiar to ubicrap drm.

[Arclight]

I know, that's why DLC was explicitly mentioned. ;)

How is having to log in before being able to play not the same? :06:

[Steeltrap]

I know, that's why DLC was explicitly mentioned. ;)

How is having to log in before being able to play not the same? :06:

I have DLC in Dragon Age, and I had to authenticate it ONCE. From then on, no internet connection required. (Not that I play DAO; pretty graphics, linear story, lame gameplay)

This UbiBull**** requires CONSTANT connection, EVERY TIME you want to play.

It's HUGELY different.

And Steam d/l a whole load of crap for Empire Total War that I didn't want or need. Even with 'Auto update' disabled, Steam ignores it for ETW and just d/l a load of crap anyway.

I am sick of these damn companies believing they are entitled to hijack my computer. They can fark off, and I'm not giving them a single $.

[JU_88]

Wow I dont think even the mighty EA has stooped this low before.
Talk about sidesteping a few pot holes only to fall off a bridge...

[czarnaszabla]

Wow I dont think even the mighty EA has stooped this low before.
Talk about sidesteping a few pot holes only to fall off a bridge...


holy crap! where in the world did you find a bridge high enough to even compare with the chasm that ubisoft's brain has taken a plunge into?


On topic though - it's not about the annoyance or wether or not it works. It's a question of principle.

The game is a product - like an tomato. Once i buy it, it's mine. I can make a sandwich, or some soup. I can forget about i until it rots, or give it to my guinea pig (brushie loves tomatoes for some reason and makes a hell of a ruckus at 7 am until he gets his tomato). None of the seller's buisness.

It's the seller's buisness to make sure i don't walk off with the tomato without paying, and in case of games, which are data (and unlike tomatoes can be copied), that people who haven't paid for the game can't play their own copy (i still see nothing wrong with lending my game to my cousins). Enter cd-keys etcetera.

But as i said, games are a product. A product is, by definition, finished, and CANNOT require any additional commitments. Now multiplayer modes, patches - that's not a product. That's a service. A service like access to the gaming network might (and is expected to) have some additional requirements - from an internet connection, through an account to a subscription fee. But in this case - we are required to have an internet connection in exchange for some additional funcionality.

Take closed battlenet in diablo2 for example. The character you create there is only available via internet. From any computer, but that's like taking a flash drive copy of the save file with you - merely a convenience resulting from the fect, that you cannot, in fact, make a flash drive copy of the save. And you have to keep actively playing the game, or the character gets deleted - it's blizzard server space you're using. But in return for this, you get to play the character online (also possible with the regular single player char), with a guarantee of very few (if any) cheaters around. That's the service closed BN is providing.


To that end - even World of Wrcraft, which is an MMORPG, does nor REQUIRE internet. You can install it just fine, even run it. You won't be able to play ofcourse, because access to the server is a service, but Blizz claims no right to the discs i have bought.




It is quite logical, that the games have technical requirements - if you want nice colors, you should have a color monitor (duh!), and if you want to play over the internet, you must have internet (surprise!). But in the case of SHV, internet does not provide any additional funcionality - the single player game has nothing to do with internet - there are no other player-controlled subs to run into, no multiplayer aspect, so why the hell should i stay online? To keep telling you that i have a legal copy? I did that once already, when i installed the game and entered the cd-key.

Seriously Ubisoft - thank god you don't sell condoms...

[jwilliams]

To that end - even World of Wrcraft, which is an MMORPG, does nor REQUIRE internet. You can install it just fine, even run it. You won't be able to play ofcourse, because access to the server is a service, but Blizz claims no right to the discs i have bought.






I think you will find that blizzard does claim their rights to world of warcraft.

THIS SOFTWARE IS LICENSED, NOT SOLD. BY INSTALLING, COPYING OR OTHERWISE USING THE GAME (DEFINED BELOW), YOU AGREE TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT, YOU ARE NOT PERMITTED TO INSTALL, COPY OR USE THE GAME. IF YOU REJECT THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT WITHIN THIRTY (30) DAYS AFTER YOUR PURCHASE, YOU MAY CALL (800)757-7707 TO REQUEST A FULL REFUND OF THE PURCHASE PRICE.

From world of warcraft EULA.

[Yak]

The big difference with WoW and othe MMORPG's is that they're usually given away for free, and the only thing you pay for is the right to play it on their server.

If you don't want to play it anymore, you don't pay for it.

Here you buy something, that you must be online for to play it, and without it, you've got a $90 USD coaster. If for some technical reasons you can't play it, you're still out of pocket.

[czarnaszabla]

actually - no. This is due to the fact, that the EULA makes private WoW servers illegal. Hence, the provision that you may not use the game unless you are going to play it like it was intended - using paid blizzard servers.

But i may have misstated something:

the actual game discs, are a product. What i do with them after purchase, is my of buisness, as long as i don't break the law. To that end, every software contains an EULA, which has the user agree that he will not pirate the software or it's impossible to install.

But the software contained on the WoW game discs is a client (and therefore a service, not a product), and it's use is contingent on follwing the terms of service.


edit:

@ Yak - actually, WoW is not given away for free, but the one-time fee for the game and expansions determines your level of access - without buying the Burning Crusade, you can't get past level 60 or reach certain zones. But you are not required to buy it to play.

Nowhere though, is it stated that after installing WoW i MUST play it, or pay the subscription fee - i can even cancel my subscription and i'm not reqired to buy a new client to reactivate my account.

[jwilliams]

The big difference with WoW and othe MMORPG's is that they're usually given away for free, and the only thing you pay for is the right to play it on their server.


I must have missed the freebies :wah:

I payed $100 for World of warcraft

I payed $70 for WOW BC addon

and I payed $70 for WOW WotLK

then i have to pay $50 every 60 days

not what i would call free.

But yeah i agree that for a single player game you shouldnt have to be online.

But you still dont own any software you've bought, wether it has DRM or not.

[czarnaszabla]

that's a lot of money - the WoW monthly subscription is only 13 euro, not 50 bucks, unless you have more than one account.


And i agree with the last bit - since software is data, it is sold under the provision of a contract (the eula), which prohibits piracy, reverse engineering, and the like - that's called intellectual property.

but talk about MY intellectual property.

If these companies think they have the right to inspect everything i do on my pc "just to make sure" i'm not doing anything they might not like - that's an intrusion into my privacy, and i'm with the hackers here.


Sure - you can chalki it up as yet another system requirement, but there is a line somwhere. A system requirement to USE the software most either have something to do tith the way the software works, or it must not exist.

Companies ask to upgrade your hardware, because as the graphics develop, and computers become more powerful, they want to take advantage of that by making the visuals more stunning, and the game code more complex, so the system specs must be high enough to cope with that.

Like i said - u want shiny colors, then you can't use a black&white monitor and wonder why the colors aren't displayed.

You want to play over the internet - have some internet.

You want to download a 3GB content patch for WoW - make sure you have those 3GB free on your drive.

Technical requirements are fine.




"this game offers no multiplayer and nothing is gained from being connected to the internet, but you will have to be connected anyway or we won't let you play the game" is not.

[jwilliams]

Yeah us New Zealander's get ripped off. :wah:

As you can see from link below, its $50 for 60 days
http://www.ebgames.co.nz/pc/product.cfm?id=2670&refer=productsearch

And i agree with you, that software companies are going too far with this DRM stuff.

And the only way to make them see this is to not buy their products.... if it sells they wont change it.

[Rip]

Me too.:DL


I had a 500+ with 2megs of ram :yeah:

And windows reminds me of the Amiga's operating system (not sure if microsoft copied it but its very similar).

Amiga was the shiznit. I had 2 500s, a 1000 , and a 3000 was my last one. Heck my 500s didn't even have a HDD, just loaded games from floppy!

[Wolfehunter]

ubi isn't alone in this. Bethesda has done this many times too. I'm not surprised.. Ubi is evil I tell ya... hehehe the darkside is strong with them..:O:

[Yak]

I got a copy of WoW for free from EB with a purchase, didn't have any of the expansions or anything, but the initial install disc was free.

Same with that Age of Conan game, free too.

I just don't play RPG's generally.

[jwilliams]

I got a copy of WoW for free from EB with a purchase, didn't have any of the expansions or anything, but the initial install disc was free.

Same with that Age of Conan game, free too.

I just don't play RPG's generally.

I believe what you got was the 10 day free trial disk. Which comes on 1 disk. Here in NZ that disk is sold for $5 (Stores prob trying to make money from something they got for free)

The actual WOW game is on 4 disks with a 208 page manual.

the prices i paid are release day prices.

Unfortuently i know longer play WOW due to them making it too easy (complants from casual gamers saying it was too hard, so they patched it making it easy).

back on subject :-

Ubisoft forums deleted my post :nope:

all i said was "I dont like how you cant save if you lost connection from Ubisoft servers. Whos stupid idea was that?" and today its gone.