Killer whale grabbed trainer by the hair

[Méo]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/26/2830692.htm?section=justin

The whale, named Tillikum, has now been linked to three deaths but SeaWorld executive Chuck Tompkins says the park will continue to care for it.:o:o:o

It means that he has been linked to two other deaths before... and he (or it) was still there? :doh:

----

A video about another one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Af67qv5Dzg&feature=related

Looks like the 'Killer' in ''Killer Whale'' is there for a good reason...

Personally, I would think about re-orienting my career? :hmmm:

[FIREWALL]

No different than getting into a cage with a lion or tiger.

It's a wild animal. Yes Tilly has a past.

You'd think they would be more cautious.

When are they going to learn.

[Méo]

No different than getting into a cage with a lion or tiger.

Yeah, but would you go in a cage with a lion or a tiger that already killed 2 of your workmates?

Sorry, that just sound so crazy to me!

[Dowly]

We exploit the nature and when she decides to strike back we ask why. :roll:

[AVGWarhawk]

A wild animal is always a wild animal.

[Méo]

A wild animal is always a wild animal.

Looks like Heather Mills forgot that at 0:40 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lI04ZlJj0M

BTW, those baby seals are protected by the law.

[Skybird]

Let's keep the sensational sentiments out of this. "Killer" has an emotional connotation that man should not so easily attach to other species. Because no other species we know on Earth kills better, and just for fun, and so often, than man himself.

Orcas are extremely intelligent animals, but fall into at leat two different groups with different behavior patterns, socalled "residents", and "transits" (translated from the german). Each of these sees many cultures of tribes with different languages and even different hunting methods. Some use their sonar while hunting, others don't. Usually, man-orca contact is considered to be more calculable with residents, who are apparently less aggressive and more curious, than with transits, who are more isolationistic and aggressive and even get avoided by other Orca families, because they sometimes on rare occaisons are assumed to even attack other orca tribes.

That every Orca necessarily is a harmless friend of man, is a cliché. that Oracas are born killers enjoying to bring death upon others, also is a cliché. they are a highly intelligent, predatory, very communicative species, not more, not less. Know that, and meet them with respect.

In German we neutrally call them "Schwertwal" (sword whale, due to the sword-like dorsal fin of the male orcas).

holding animals of this siz,e who use to swim huge distances, in aquariums and sea worlds, in principle always is animal abuse, and cruel. even more so if the animal in question is highly intelligent. Orcas are known to be vulnerable to cardiovascular diseases when living in captivity (you see it in their dorsal fins bowing down, for example), because they do not get enough movement, and due to the stress of the shows. the stress as well as the boredom between the shows, the monotony, tends to make them neurotic. I think it is possible that the orca killing that trainer was bored to death and just wanted to play like they use to play with a dead seal in the coean - or maybe even somehow expressed some kind of frustration over the situation he is caught in. I also would not rule out in principle that the trainer maybe treated the orca bad, and the animal took kind of revenge - who knows. We know for sure that such cases have happened with elephants killing their trainers. Or maybe the orca had a bad day and just was pissed to have an unwelcomed guest in his already crowded living room.

The lesson to be learned from this event? Shut down Sea World "aquariums". It's animal abuse and cruel on the suffering creature - nothing else. It compares to locking a human inside a 3x3 cell for the rest of his lifetime - yes, there is enough room so that he can walk in circles and stretch his arms, yes indeed. Great, isn't it!?

While we are at it, cage animals and zoos are not much better.

[Blacklight]

Every article I've seen of this story has given a different story. There's the story that she accidentally fell in the tank , there's one where the whale came up out of the water and grabbed her, and then there's the one where she was attacked and killed during a performance. Can't these reporters get their stories straight !?!

[NeonSamurai]

I couldn't blame orcas for going berserk after what they have to put up with day in and day out. I also have a strong dislike for sea world and others, particularly given how they often get their animals.

Btw sky I think the word you want is transient to go along with resident.

[Sailor Steve]

Because no other species we know on Earth kills better, and just for fun, and so often, than man himself.
Haven't been around too many cats?

[Platapus]

I am not fond of the "animal entertainment industry" and refuse to support it.

Animals are interesting enough without the "tricks" :nope:

[Skybird]

Btw sky I think the word you want is transient to go along with resident.
Indeed.


Haven't been around too many cats?

when was the last time cats had a world war over abstract ideas or took pleasure from watching cats killing each other in the circus? And do you have any reason to think that cats kill mice for the pleasure and pride of it while knowing what bthey are doing...?

Many animals, espoecially intellgent ones, let prey escape and hunt it again, to teach their oyungsters how to do it. They even play with dead bodies. However, there is no animals species that is known to be a trophy hunter like man uses to do. No animal holds lifes stock to have something it can kill for different reasons that eating. No other species is as malicious and invests so much of it's intellectual potentials into forming traps to kill others, or to finetunine the art of killing to such perverse degrees like man does. you can name all horrors of animal world you want, from sharks over snakes to big cats - the most horrifying killer is homo sapiens. He is also the most passionate and the most effective killer there is.

[SteamWake]

I am not fond of the "animal entertainment industry" and refuse to support it.

Animals are interesting enough without the "tricks" :nope:

Good god i agree with platapus on something ! :rock:


A wild animal is always a wild animal.


With a high level of intelligence makes them even more dangerous.

Were talking nearly sentient biengs cooped up in a concrete pond.

[Méo]

I think it is possible that the orca killing that trainer was bored to death and just wanted to play like they use to play with a dead seal in the coean

That's exactly what I thought first.

But I wouldn't risk my life with an animal that already ''played'' with two of my workmates just for entertainment.

[Skybird]

That's exactly what I thought first.

But I wouldn't risk my life with an animal that already ''played'' with two of my workmates just for entertainment.
Yes. If needing to dive in the same water with Orcas, I would prefer every time to meet them in free environment, than to jump into their bassin in a sea world, where they probaly already are neurotic, bored, can'T show natural behavior (which includes to leave them the space to curiously examine or to evade), while their sonar-basing perception sense already must have gone crazy in monotony from that limited, featureless environment an aquarium oval is, no matter how big. It's maybe is as if you are living in round, small room with white walls that do not show any corners or features, and at every direction you watch you see almost the same ambient light level.

I may be wrong, but I never heared of Orcas having killed humans in the open ocean. I only heared a few stories of whale cows (not orcas) shielding their small babgy whales from divers, even ramming divers and sometime having pushed them under water (even snapped for a limb and pulled them down before releasing them again) if these divers came too close for too long a time and did not know what it means when they say "keep your distance and let the animal chose to meet you - or not".

Like many people, I am fascinated by dolphins and whales and orcas, and their sense of curiosity, playfulness and obvious intelligence. But I try to stay away from anthropomorhising them and wallowing in sentimental emotions linked to that.

[Méo]

BTW Skybird, you seem to be very cultivated, I've already heard somewhere (but I have no idea if it is accurate) that death by drowning is one of the worse way to die, I am currently reading for this but maybe you can confirm?

I don't want to imagine what was her last thought.

[XabbaRus]

The thing is releasing the whales is a no go as they have lost the ability to bond with the whales in the wild.

I think Orcas in a tank is cruel given their size and needs.

Also maybe the Orcas just got fed up with all the performing and decided to let it out on the trainer. If they are that clever then why not?

[Hakahura]

A very saddening story.
However I can't blame the whale.
The clue is in the name after all.

[OneToughHerring]

Wouldn't it be possible to release several captive orca's at once, wouldn't they at least form a group of their own and thus maybe survive? I dunno...

[August]

holding animals of this siz,e who use to swim huge distances, in aquariums and sea worlds, in principle always is animal abuse, and cruel. even more so if the animal in question is highly intelligent.

One of the rare occasions that Skybird and I agree. We have no business keeping these animals in fish tanks.

[NeonSamurai]

I may be wrong, but I never heared of Orcas having killed humans in the open ocean. I only heared a few stories of whale cows (not orcas) shielding their small babgy whales from divers, even ramming divers and sometime having pushed them under water (even snapped for a limb and pulled them down before releasing them again) if these divers came too close for too long a time and did not know what it means when they say "keep your distance and let the animal chose to meet you - or not".

It is risky, and I think in the past there have been deaths (particularly if they are attacked). They don't normally encounter us in the water though (they live in cold water where you generally won't find swimmers, and they prefer deeper water not shallows) which explains their curiosity when encountering divers. Great whites often behave similarly (though they like to feel things with their mouths which is bad) in deep water. They are very powerful and potentially dangerous predators though (watching them attack other whales, particularly calves shows that). They also go after prey that has high blubber amounts, which most people do not have (I wonder if they would be more prone to attacking a heavily obese person).

Like many people, I am fascinated by dolphins and whales and orcas, and their sense of curiosity, playfulness and obvious intelligence. But I try to stay away from anthropomorhising them and wallowing in sentimental emotions linked to that.True enough, movies like free willy and others don't help though and distort public perception (like teddy bears and real bears).

Wouldn't it be possible to release several captive orca's at once, wouldn't they at least form a group of their own and thus maybe survive? I dunno...

Not very likely to, unless most of them were captured as adults and still remember their hunting skills. I believe they capture infant animals though as adults do not do well at all, and are probably more dangerous. Plus for them to form a pod they would have to speak the same dialect, which they might not unless they are all in the same pool.

BTW Skybird, you seem to be very cultivated, I've already heard somewhere (but I have no idea if it is accurate) that death by drowning is one of the worse way to die, I am currently reading for this but maybe you can confirm?

I don't want to imagine what was her last thought.

I think being swallowed alive, awake, and whole is the worst way to go; drown/suffocate while burning in acid at the same time. Fairly common form of death in the animal world too.

Oh and that whale killed 2 trainers, another person was found naked and dead on the whales back before that one morning.

[OneToughHerring]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jSSb3Xe0-s&feature=browch

These things have been known to happen.

[Reece]

A wild animal is always a wild animal.I disagree, Christian the lion was an over sized teddy bear!!:yep:

[Méo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jSSb3Xe0-s&feature=browch

These things have been known to happen.

Sh!t, all this for 'amusement'.

I wonder if something similar already happened with people posing with pythons?

[Skybird]

It is risky, and I think in the past there have been deaths (particularly if they are attacked).
Attacking whales or attacking Orcas? Who hunts Orcas? that whales killed or caused the death of whalers occasionally, I know. Anyhow, I had divers on mind when saying "meeting them".


They don't normally encounter us in the water though (they live in cold water where you generally won't find swimmers, and they prefer deeper water not shallows) which explains their curiosity when encountering divers.

Not fully. Orcas are known to stay or pass through or travel along waters close to coasts, and they even go not only close to but onto beaches when hunting seals. We humans, though, are not in their scheme of prey (Beuteschema), different to a shark who might see the silhouette of a paddling human and mistake it or the swimming sounds with that of a swimming seal, Orcas "see" a diver with their sonar long before their eyes eventually see him, and with sonar they almost x-ray us and note the difference instantly regading the layers of soft tissue (if it causes differences with surfaces made of bones I do jnot know, but with layers of fat and flesh their sonar penetrates into and right through the object, depending on the size).

[Gotland]

Attacking whales or attacking Orcas? Who hunts Orcas? that whales killed or caused the death of whalers occasionally, I know. Anyhow, I had divers on mind when saying "meeting them".




Not fully. Orcas are known to stay or pass through or travel along waters close to coasts, and they even go not only close to but onto beaches when hunting seals. We humans, though, are not in their scheme of prey (Beuteschema), different to a shark who might see the silhouette of a paddling human and mistake it or the swimming sounds with that of a swimming seal, Orcas "see" a diver with their sonar long before their eyes eventually see him, and with sonar they almost x-ray us and note the difference instantly regading the layers of soft tissue (if it causes differences with surfaces made of bones I do jnot know, but with layers of fat and flesh their sonar penetrates into and right through the object, depending on the size).


The case of mistaken identity between seals and humans in White shark attacks is something of a myth.
White sharks have very good eye sight and know fully well a human isn't a seal (remember they can also sense living beings via electromagnetic disturbances).
That shows in the way they approach and "attack" humans. Of 108 unprovoked attacks in the US during the 20th century, only 8 have been fatal.

Compared to how it hunts seals, it approaches humans relatively undramatic and leisurely.
Curiousity is thought to be the main reason, and one way for a great white to examine, is testing with its mouth, unfortunately.

If it thought we were seals it would hide along the bottom, then rocket up towards us delivering a first crippling blow.

Seals are agile, have great endurance and speed. So it's crucial for the shark to deliver a crippling surprise blow.
If it fails the first time, and the more time goes, the higher the probability of a seal escaping.
You don't see these torpedo-attacks on humans.

Went a little off-topic, but it has become such a widespread misbelief conserning the great white.

[Blood_splat]

*******K you Whale and *******K you dolphin!

[Terrax]

*******K you Whale and *******K you dolphin!


If that's a reference to the South Park episode, I think I'm the only one who got the joke.

[NeonSamurai]

Not fully. Orcas are known to stay or pass through or travel along waters close to coasts, and they even go not only close to but onto beaches when hunting seals.

The beach hunting behavior only happens at certain times of the year and only at certain beaches, and still usually in water where you won't find human swimmers due to water temperature.

Here is a vid of a wild orca going after a kayak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdIAvUMNKtg&NR=1

We humans, though, are not in their scheme of prey (Beuteschema), different to a shark who might see the silhouette of a paddling human and mistake it or the swimming sounds with that of a swimming seal, Orcas "see" a diver with their sonar long before their eyes eventually see him, and with sonar they almost x-ray us and note the difference instantly regading the layers of soft tissue (if it causes differences with surfaces made of bones I do jnot know, but with layers of fat and flesh their sonar penetrates into and right through the object, depending on the size).

This is exactly why I wonder what would happen if they encountered a severely overweight person, as they would have the fat layer. That would make them look like a prey item, not perfectly, but it might trigger an attack. Otherwise it triggers curiosity when encountering a diver or swimmer as they don't normally encounter those.

The case of mistaken identity between seals and humans in White shark attacks is something of a myth.
White sharks have very good eye sight and know fully well a human isn't a seal (remember they can also sense living beings via electromagnetic disturbances).
That shows in the way they approach and "attack" humans. Of 108 unprovoked attacks in the US during the 20th century, only 8 have been fatal.

There is a bunch of research that disagrees with your assertion. The belief of many scientists is that these attacks are often caused by juvenile sharks in murky water (which is where they like to hunt seals). In one research case they had white sharks attacking a target dragged behind the boat that looked like a seal (but obviously gave off no electrical signals), and then a mock up of a surfer on his board (which also got hit). There is also a pretty strong correlation between white shark attacks and surfers/body boarders.

The reason why there have been so many survived attacks from white sharks is they quickly realize they made a mistake after biting, and leave the scene. But a single bite generates a rather catastrophic wound.

Compared to how it hunts seals, it approaches humans relatively undramatic and leisurely.
Curiousity is thought to be the main reason, and one way for a great white to examine, is testing with its mouth, unfortunately.

They will also do that with bait too though. But ya that is usually the way they approach divers.

If it thought we were seals it would hide along the bottom, then rocket up towards us delivering a first crippling blow.

Yes that is their preferred method of attack for seals. They often try to do it in murky water where they have the surprise advantage. But they do have other attack strategies as well.

Seals are agile, have great endurance and speed. So it's crucial for the shark to deliver a crippling surprise blow.
If it fails the first time, and the more time goes, the higher the probability of a seal escaping.

Also they do that so they don't risk injury themselves, safer to rip a big chunk out of your prey and let it bleed out and then feed (which is why they will hang back after a successful attack).

You don't see these torpedo-attacks on humans.

That is incorrect, this is how most surfers/body boarders get attacked. They arn't probing with their mouths as the damage caused is much greater. Also survivors of attacks and witnesses confirm this, plus research done. The reason why these attacks are rare as they are only likely to happen under certain conditions (lighting and ocean conditions), and with juvenile white sharks.

Went a little off-topic, but it has become such a widespread misbelief conserning the great white.

I do agree with you that they generally don't attack divers or swimmers; there is one guy who even free dives with them (I believe with out scuba either) and hasn't been attacked so far (but he knows the warning signs and when they are getting too curious). Sharks generally communicate their intentions pretty clearly and will warn you if they are thinking of attacking. If your diving with some and you see them drift in the water and arch their back with fins extended, its time to get out of the water.

[Tribesman]

That is incorrect, this is how most surfers/body boarders get attacked.
Yep, which is why it can be really really freaky when you see something coming up under you.

[NeonSamurai]

Yep, which is why it can be really really freaky when you see something coming up under you.

Ya no kidding, or getting bumped by something in the water. Key to avoid such attacks though is just to be aware, Don't go in the water during dawn or dusk (night can be dangerous too, but not as dangerous), and avoid murky and turbid water (almost all shark attacks happen in murky water).

[Skybird]

Mind you, Neon, that movies and film materials from orcas under water are shot by divers who usually meet these oraces the first time. If all these divers would be attacked and killed, we would not have so many professional films showing the opposite.

I think a sonar image of an obese person and a seal still shows plenty of differences, not to mention that an orca most likely is intelligent enough to note the diference in behavior and movement, too.

Scientisits have described many resident tribes who spend their time in waters between coasts of islands, and close to these islands. These groups stray off into the deep blue sea relatovely rarely, but follow the coastlines in their ocal wanderings. Some transients' yearly wanderings also follow coastlines even outside the "beach-hunting season".

In that video you linked, I have the very strong impression that those kajak guys denfinetly were pressing the envelope and tested the nerves of that orca. Note that that movie is linked several times, ander different titles and with comments that also indicate that. tzhat Orace did not attack to eat. He attacked either to play a typical wgale game, or to show that tiny little entitiy kiling his nerves that it's presence was no longer to be tolerated.

As I said: "Keep your distance and let the animal choose whether or not form contact." Humans tend to push it. And Orcas are topo strong as if they would need to flee.

Shark-vs.seals, I am aware of that scientist discuss this versus other explanations. Most attacks take place close to the beach and in shallow water, and there, the noise made in the water as well as people almost tripping over a shark may trigger the eattack, whule obviously mistaking humans with seals does not play a role. Also, experiments in open blue water showed that most of the times shark did not show much interest in objects just looking like seals. Noise, and smeels, played a role, too, and a more dominant role. Nevertheless, it also depends on the species you meet. I personally would think meeting a tigershark is far more dangerous than meeting a big White., because Great Whites have been shown in the past years to carefully explore and investiagte, to socially communicate and to be curous, but cautious. Tigersharks are described to be far less cautuous, and more aggressive, they approach faster and less driven by a motive of curiosity for what they must perceive as something unnown, but they just eat anything that passes in front of their jaw. If I remember it correctly, statistics also show far more incidents with Tigers than with Whites. I also remember to have seen at least two filmes with two different globally respected shark experts, both saiyng that thy consieer Tigers to be more uncalculable than Whites and most other sharks. However, amongst the sharks dangerous for humans, the Mako seems to be the one that is easier triggered to go on the attack, than any other.

But what do I know. It's just some random reading and some film input that I parrot (no I'm not being ironic, I mean I really think I don't know much on sharks). Only on Orcas and dolphins (and wolves) I spend greater reading efforts.

BTW, there is a movie coming to cinemas "Oceans". check youtube, some very impressive material they offer.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=unsere+ozeane+trailer&search_type=&aq=0&oq=unsere+ozeane

From it, two screenshots:

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9103/027354327419716070543x1.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/i/027354327419716070543x1.jpg/)

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4610/fullsize.jpg (http://img502.imageshack.us/i/fullsize.jpg/)

[Tribesman]

Ya no kidding, or getting bumped by something in the water.
Only actually bumped once (windusfing that time)and I didn't see what that was, I have seen sharks when windsurfing though, but when surfing andyou see a shape coming up or passing under you don't know what it is.
The funniest and most relevant has to be Polzeath.
Waiting in the line, what the **** is that dark thing?
oh its just a seal.
This fella it popped up next to went to stroke it as obviously its a cute little animal....he didn't half scream when it bit him:rotfl2:
It is a wild animal after all:up:

[Gotland]

Well i admit my knowledge of great white vs. humans has become rusty and is in need of reevaluation. You make a very interesting point.

And Tiger sharks, another scary fact about them is their teeth.
Most sharks have differently shaped teeth in the upper and lower jaws. Upper jaw for cutting and lower jaw for holding on.
In Tigers, the upper and lower jaw teeth are rather similar with both oblique and serrated regions on the tooth (think knives and saws rolled into one).
Essentially, they are good at sawing through flesh.

[FIREWALL]

Just to keep the facts straight.

It was one other workmate and, a mental case who broke in.

Not two other workmates.

[OneToughHerring]

The Japanese kayak-video is fake, like it says in the description box it's a commercial. The video I posted is genuine, to my knowledge and non-lethal attacks have happened in captivity.

[Jimbuna]

I was once on my fathers 27' fishing boat off the north east coast of the UK and up popped a dorsal a few feet off the boat....it turned out to be a dolphin but the initial reaction I had, despite being safely aboard the boat was 'oh hell...a shark'!! :doh:

http://www.blognow.com.au/uploads/l/LIZZYFOREAL/57049.gif

[Castout]

No different than a fully educated man who pamper his every desires ( and thinks he can get away with them because he thinks he is above the law.)

Men are often the worst kind of creatures. Most often because men have conscience but refused to heed them. I wouldn't say that men are just another animal, I don't believe that and I know men are not just mere animal.

The same reason why nobody could blame the killer whale for killing its trainer. It has got no conscience. It doesn't know what is bad and what is good. It just does what it feels like doing. It sure is dangerous to be its trainer though. Three people mind you not just one.

[Castout]

I was once on my fathers 27' fishing boat off the north east coast of the UK and up popped a dorsal a few feet off the boat....it turned out to be a dolphin but the initial reaction I had, despite being safely aboard the boat was 'oh hell...a shark'!! :doh:

http://www.blognow.com.au/uploads/l/LIZZYFOREAL/57049.gif

Doplhins I've always wondered why they like to approach people's boats or ships and swim around or along them. It seems that they are a very social and intelligent creatures.

I've heard tales of dolphins saving sailors in the sea by carrying them back to the beach. . . .