UBI have any grudges with the Destroyer Command

[W_clear]

I suddenly understood why not UBI Development Destroyer Command,Is UBI does not want to profit?And money have any grudges?:hmmm:

Only one reason: that is, and games, "Destroyer Command" any grudges against them!

[Heretic]

I suddenly understood why not UBI Development Destroyer Command,Is UBI does not want to profit?And money have any grudges?:hmmm:

Only one reason: that is, and games, "Destroyer Command" any grudges against them!

I imagine it just didn't sell enough to merit continuing. It'd be nice to see an updated version that could interface with Silent Hunter. Be nice to win the lottery too, and probably about as likely.

[W_clear]

Use SH5 engine development DC2, low cost, even if the didn't sell enough, do not lose money。

[Onkel Neal]

W_clear, why don't you do some market research, draw up a business plan, and a sales pro forma, and submit it to Ubisoft?

I say not enough people bought Destroyer Command to make it profitable but if you know something we don't, go for it.

If people don't buy it, they don't make it. Of course, we're still waiting for that other company to come along and make a better destroyer simulation.... still waiting....

[FIREWALL]

Maybe they Ubi, could make DC for the casual player also.

[Méo]

I imagine them doing few expansions for SH5...:hmmm:


First they release an expansion for all U-boat types and the missing years.

...and we hear: All this is BS :x, they could have done it on release, all they care about is big $$$, I'm gonna keep my money, blablabla...


Let's say we're lucky and they release another expansion for surface ships.

...and we hear: another 30$ :damn: no way I'm not gonna buy it when it should have been done on release, Ubi suits you really piss me off big time, blablabla...


And Neal (and a many of us too) will still be waiting...

[scrapser]

How does one approach UbiSoft with an idea such as the one I have been positing in the other SH5 thread? Since they have so much experience with the series it seems natural to ask them first. If they aren't interested in working out a way to do a high end simulation then perhaps the discussion will lead to some other software houses or even individuals that would.

The GWX team, the modding community, people who embrace open source development...there has to be some way to make this happen. Stranger things have been done so I know I'm not crazy to push this.

[martes86]

W_clear, why don't you do some market research, draw up a business plan, and a sales pro forma, and submit it to Ubisoft?

I say not enough people bought Destroyer Command to make it profitable but if you know something we don't, go for it.

If people don't buy it, they don't make it. Of course, we're still waiting for that other company to come along and make a better destroyer simulation.... still waiting....

Seeing as we have some sales numbers from SH2/3/4 going around... do we have those for DC?

Oh, and, if a new DC is ever made, I'd be making sure that at least everyone in the 24th is buying it. It'd be an opportunity to revive the old times of SH2/DC that we can't lose. :DL

Cheers :rock:

[Schunken]

...maybe the mods will make some Destroyers, Cruisers and BBs playable in Champaign like in Sh4...

The Bismarck was build for Convoy hunting in the Atlantic....


Andreas

[martes86]

...maybe the mods will make some Destroyers, Cruisers and BBs playable in Champaign like in Sh4...

Yes, but that can hardly make for an inmersive experience if we can't change the way the game reacts (that is, coding behaviour to your input and your place in the game world).

Cheers :rock:

[Bilge_Rat]

"Dangerous Waters" featured realistic playable submarines, ASW aircrafts and ASW vessels. How many players bought that? Obviously not enough for Sonalyst to continue the series.

Storm Eagle studios produced realistic 3d naval warfare games on the 1905 Russo-japanese wars and WW1. How many players bought that? They appear to be struggling and having difficulty meeting their sales target.

Wargames/simulations are a niche market. Naval wargames/simulations are a niche within that niche. Unless players actually buy these games, they won't get made.

I am still waiting for my dream sim...cruiser-destroyer surface action in the Solomons 1942-43...I'm not holding my breath...

:ahoy:

[oscar19681]

Who ever said there will not be a DC2 as an addon for sh-5? I mean this games screems for u-boat campaing addons. Most likeley there will be if sh-5 sells well.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

"Dangerous Waters" featured realistic playable submarines, ASW aircrafts and ASW vessels. How many players bought that? Obviously not enough for Sonalyst to continue the series.

That might be attributed to its steep learning curve, and lack of a printed manual in all but the most expensive of copies

Storm Eagle studios produced realistic 3d naval warfare games on the 1905 Russo-japanese wars and WW1. How many players bought that? They appear to be struggling and having difficulty meeting their sales target.

Well, the 1905 Russo-Japanese Wars and WW1 don't have the same public exposure as WW2 does. WW2 sells.

[martes86]

:agree:

[OakGroove]

Honestly, i wouldn't be too sad if UBI decided to ditch naval games for good after this, for other, smaller companies, to pick up. Looking at ESim Games, Eagle Dynamics .. catering a rather small niche market - while coming up with an "ok" support and quality products, actually deserving the prefix "simulation". The SH series always required an extraordinary community effort to get it somewhere near the simulation genre. As long as there's a request, someone will want to capitalize on this, sooner or later, demand and supply. The PC games market is declared dead, or dying, every so often by scene celebreties who heavily invest in console titles, and the market shares for PC games look supportive to this claim. But as long as people want to play games on their PC, someone will deliver.

[Méo]

As long as there's a request, someone will want to capitalize on this, sooner or later

Maybe, but I would be curious to know what is your prediction on many years it will take before we see it. :hmmm:

No offence, I'm just not very optimistic about it.

[OakGroove]

Not expecting someone to tackle the submarine genre as soon as UBI leaves the helm either, at least not immediately. But who knows.

[Onkel Neal]

Same here. Yes, there is demand, but very small demand, and the hurdle rate to invest and build in an AAA game like we are used to is much greater than the demand (imo). I wish I could agree some studio will pick up where Ubi left off but I don't see it happening soon. And by soon, I'm estimating 10 years or more, based on the span that we have seen since the boom of great simualtions in the 90s.

Let's hope that's not the case.

[Nordmann]

Sadly, it's all too easy to mass produce games for the idiot market, rather than specialised simulations. The funny thing about it all, is the fact that a lot of companies are making a big loss with the former, because quite simply, there's too many other companies doing the exact same thing!

[oscar19681]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/viewpost.gif (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1280200#post1280200)
"Dangerous Waters" featured realistic playable submarines, ASW aircrafts and ASW vessels. How many players bought that? Obviously not enough for Sonalyst to continue the series.

The problem with dangerous waters is , although its a real hard-core subsim (which is maybe also a factor to not be succesful for the casual gamer) the trade off for this was that the grafics where hoplelessly outdated since it was based upon 688i hunter/killer and thats a game from 1997. I mean even for the day it was releases the grafics where seriouly lacking. It also serioully lacked even the most normal animations ( the ships screws didnt even stop when ordered full stop etc etc)

[Bilge_Rat]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/viewpost.gif (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1280200#post1280200)
"Dangerous Waters" featured realistic playable submarines, ASW aircrafts and ASW vessels. How many players bought that? Obviously not enough for Sonalyst to continue the series.

The problem with dangerous waters is , although its a real hard-core subsim (which is maybe also a factor to not be succesful for the casual gamer) the trade off for this was that the grafics where hoplelessly outdated since it was based upon 688i hunter/killer and thats a game from 1997. I mean even for the day it was releases the grafics where seriouly lacking. It also serioully lacked even the most normal animations ( the ships screws didnt even stop when ordered full stop etc etc)

I do not disagree.

Although since hardcore wargamers are always saying that graphics are not important as long as the underlying sim is realistic, I find it ironic that beautiful lighter sims like Silent Hunter will always outsell more hardcore sims like the 688i/Sub Command/Dangerous Waters.

Even here, amongst the Subnut elite, there was always more interest in SH than DW.

I guess we are all suckers (myself included) for beautiful graphics, even at the expense of realism. :arrgh!:

[Heretic]

I don't think it's realistic to expect other, smaller companies, to get into this. They're not immune from the same market realities that UBI faces. The Silent Hunter engine has years of development in it, and whatever hardcore sim elements it has are a legacy of that. Any other company would be starting from scratch. They'd still need a product that's marketable to a larger audience, which means a large investment in graphics, sound, etc. All this, while trying to make a hardcore sim from the ground up? I'm sure many companies have looked at this genre, did the research, ran the numbers, and concluded the limited market just doesn't justify the expense.

Development costs are only going to keep rising. I think it's more likely niche products will disappear entirely then be taken over by small companies with even fewer resources. The market only understands one virture - profit.

[scrapser]

I just did some quick reading overnight to familiarize myself with the current economics of developing computer games. I'm shocked. It has completely changed my perception of this industry. Right now I feel about the same as I did when Commodore-Amiga went bankrupt. I never thought I would feel that way again.

[Furia]

I am not an economist but I know that demand is not only the combination of the potential demand for a product but the demand you create while promoting your product.

SHIII and SH IV were nice games but basically single player ones.
They missed the exciting, challenging and attractive mp mode where humen players could defend a convoy while others in subs tried to sink them.
For me, SH II vs DC were the peak and gold age of submarine computer simulation.

We do not need a stand alone DC game, maybe that one would not sell enough, but I am almost certain that a SH V expansion including 1 type of escort, fully controllable by humans (And I do not mean the charade of SH IV "human controlled escort") would surely bring life, continuity, activities, MP competition and afterall SALES.
No matter how advanced and scripted the AI is, for me they would never match the thrill of hunting and sinking human controlled ships.

Is there any chance the SH saga has a future this MUST enclose the posibility of commanding as well an escort.

Not as stand alone game but as an expansion of SHV plus other stuff. I am sure that one would sell good enough and would give SHV life and renown to continue for many years.
You do not need a new engine or new game. Just create 1 escort type under the same game. LOL they already even have the 3D external model.
Just pick up one escort type and create the art interiors and interfaces.

SH saga would NEVER be the same without a controlled human escort to play MP combats.
Fighting AI is boring after some months.

I would surely purchase such expansion. lol I would even preordered now :|\\

[Onkel Neal]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/viewpost.gif (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1280200#post1280200)
"Dangerous Waters" featured realistic playable submarines, ASW aircrafts and ASW vessels. How many players bought that? Obviously not enough for Sonalyst to continue the series.

The problem with dangerous waters is , although its a real hard-core subsim (which is maybe also a factor to not be succesful for the casual gamer) the trade off for this was that the grafics where hoplelessly outdated since it was based upon 688i hunter/killer and thats a game from 1997. I mean even for the day it was releases the grafics where seriouly lacking. It also serioully lacked even the most normal animations ( the ships screws didnt even stop when ordered full stop etc etc)


True.:-?


I just did some quick reading overnight to familiarize myself with the current economics of developing computer games. I'm shocked. It has completely changed my perception of this industry. Right now I feel about the same as I did when Commodore-Amiga went bankrupt. I never thought I would feel that way again.


I am always interested in this field, could you pass along some links to what you read? thanks!

[himlaviz]

I would like to see a simulation like Silent Hunter 5 to have a long term support and development with new content and fixes. If that means we have to buy our II, IX and XXI through DLC that is so popular now I would be happy to pour some more $$ ubisoft/devs way.

Additional subs = smaller cheap DLC.
Campaign beyond 1943 and new features = larger DLC.
"Destroyer Command" and new features = larger DLC.
Pacific Theatre = full addon with content and new features.
Additional pacific subs = small cheap DLC.

Same base game that will get improvements and perhaps utilize new technology when the addon is released and it will have a longer lifetime, maybe 6-8 years. Isn't IL-2 a good example of this?

[Stormfly]

Steam inform us that SH5 coms also with that "Adversial Mode" included...

"Multiplayer Mode Play in cooperative or adversarial modes in scripted and generated missions."

I just wonder if this is:

- the same crap SH4 had ?
- is it maybe a typo by copying older SH4 features ?
- is it maybe the same crap from SH4 but got a bit of improvement ?
- would our dream come true and we get a full controlable escort with manual controlabale DC (setting depth), hedgehogs, a virtual 3D bridge together with full operational sonar & radar stations ? :rock:

[Heretic]

I would like to see a simulation like Silent Hunter 5 to have a long term support and development with new content and fixes. If that means we have to buy our II, IX and XXI through DLC that is so popular now I would be happy to pour some more $$ ubisoft/devs way.

Additional subs = smaller cheap DLC.
Campaign beyond 1943 and new features = larger DLC.
"Destroyer Command" and new features = larger DLC.
Pacific Theatre = full addon with content and new features.
Additional pacific subs = small cheap DLC.

Same base game that will get improvements and perhaps utilize new technology when the addon is released and it will have a longer lifetime, maybe 6-8 years. Isn't IL-2 a good example of this?
:agree: