Census gets personal (US politics)

[SteamWake]

As you may or may not know it is census time. Thousands of 'workers' have been hired (some from Acorn http://www.factcheck.org/2009/06/acorn-and-the-census/ ) thousands of dollars spent on advertising, and citizens prompted to provide all sorts of personal information. Right down to how many toilets you have in your home :doh:

As you may or may not be aware of the only answer you are required to answer is how many people live in your home.

Here is an interesting take...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsDhkPym01k

Why are the privacy activists not up in arms over this?




In related news


WASHINGTON (AFP) - The US Federal Trade Commission (FTC) said Monday it has notified nearly 100 companies and organizations of data breaches involving personal information about customers or employees.


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/100222/usa/us_it_computer_security_internet_ftc_1

[Skybird]

Why are the privacy activists not up in arms over this?



Why should they - in a country that is totally uncritical of data protection laws and the Googlian data kraken - which means a private, uncontrolled, profit-orientated business company being allowed to collect data and profiling data to a degree that in Europe no state authority and no intellligence service would be allowed to accumulate without a loud public outcry...?

Sorry, but if you talk about the census but do not attack Google, with the latter being a far greater threat, than you contradict yourself, SW. Or do you still believe that the Googlians just collect this flood of data for fun and feel like wanting to be philantropists, or because they just feel bored?

[SteamWake]

I dont remember bringing up Google :doh:

[Skybird]

I do.

You complain about the census. But I have not heared you complaing about the Googlian data kraken, which is strange is privacy protection and data protection suddenly is a worry of yours. See? ;)

[GoldenRivet]

Google isnt likely to send troops to my door in the middle of the night to arrest my family and I for our religious or political beliefs.

Google is a mapping and search engine

The United States Government is a Tyranny in progress.

[Aramike]

Google isnt likely to send troops to my door in the middle of the night to arrest my family and I for our religious or political beliefs.

Google is a mapping and search engine

The United States Government is a Tyranny in progress.To be fair, Google's data is far more complete and is only a subpeona away from being federal data...

Regardless, I still Google.

[Skybird]

Google isnt likely to send troops to my door in the middle of the night to arrest my family and I for our religious or political beliefs.

Google is a mapping and search engine


You are not really that naive, are you...!? :06:

you really should get some info on how data network profiling works with even the smallest, most banal data trivia you headlessly gives away every single day. If you think that Google stores all your reactions on the keyboard, searchterms in Google, all your internet movement behavior (if you use Kamikaze-browser Chrome), your social interaction patterns at social networks (if oyu use chrome) -without this private, profit-interested company plannign to make lucrative use of this profile they establish about you: then you have not understood what capitliastic economy is about. ;)

By chance I just have had this piece two days ago.

http://www.faz.net/s/Rub475F682E3FC24868A8A5276D4FB916D7/Doc~E2DB28F0A1D814E61BD8AE675DE76A85F~ATpl~Ecommon ~Scontent.html

unfortunately it is in German. It sheds some nice spotlights on the brave new digital "privacy" world. Whether you are aware of it or not, you are being spied out and profiled and monitored and forecasted every single second, with your datasets being sold and your behavior profile becoming handed around and all actors being beyond any legislative or public control, acting in the hidden and demanding the right to store your life for decades to come. And in america - they already can, and do.

And while others make a profit with your life, you do not even get a single dime. Nor do you ever get asked for permission.

And you guys worry about a census counting the heads inside your household, and you call that a state tyranny? You really are funny.

[August]

This thread ain't about Google and nor does it serve as excuse for the Federal government to collect information it doesn't have a constitutional mandate to collect.

[krashkart]

Did anyone watch the video?

[GoldenRivet]

Skybird.

I think if you do enough research into the matter you will probably find that the majority of American's are distrustful of Government.

i think that you will also discover that most Americans favor a small centralized and non invasive government over a large sprawling bureaucracy like we have now.

it has been a theme prevalent to American society since March 5th, 1770 (and perhaps before to some lesser extent).

When the U.S. Census arrives at my door, i will answer only the required question and respectfully return it to the bastards in Washington, D.C.

* not because of what the document asks for... but because of what it represents.. Further intrusion into private matters by a government that has no need, nor any constructive purpose for information beyond the number of people in my home.

i should think that as a German... you would understand my position against large and intrusive government.

[Skybird]

Skybird.

I think if you do enough research into the matter you will probably find that the majority of American's are distrustful of Government.

i think that you will also discover that most Americans favor a small centralized and non invasive government over a large sprawling bureaucracy like we have now.

it has been a theme prevalent to American society since March 5th, 1770 (and perhaps before to some lesser extent).

When the U.S. Census arrives at my door, i will answer only the required question and respectfully return it to the bastards in Washington, D.C.

* not because of what the document asks for... but because of what it represents.. Further intrusion into private matters by a government that has no need, nor any constructive purpose for information beyond the number of people in my home.

i should think that as a German... you would understand my position against large and intrusive government.

????

In what way does this reduce the risk of abuse of power by uncontrolled companies like Google? what you say reminds me of the disucssions with Lance. Like you he always points out that governments cannot be trusted, for certain reasons. But that companies abuse their power for the very same reasons, and corrupt politics over their own eogist interest - about which later Lance and you complain when noting those oh so evil governments - that is something he only spends few - if any - words about. And you seem to think the same way.

That is highly contradictory in itself. Why should private bodies be allowed what you do not want to allow a government? The govenrment you do elect - the board of directors, the company policies, the sales policies of a company you do not get asked about. And in America, this way of private enterprise even runs highly unregulated by legislation and data protection laws. instead there are laws shielding it from public awareness: "Sorry, that's private business".

I do not trust government myself, tool. The point is I do not trust private companies with private profit interest any more.

[Bubblehead1980]

Census is going to be full of fraud etc because ACORN is involved via Obama Admin.:damn:

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Google isnt likely to send troops to my door in the middle of the night to arrest my family and I for our religious or political beliefs.

Google is a mapping and search engine

The United States Government is a Tyranny in progress.

And yet I'll bet you were conspicuously silent when the Patriot Bill passed. What's the difference...hmmmm....???

[Torvald Von Mansee]

I do.

You complain about the census. But I have not heared you complaing about the Googlian data kraken, which is strange is privacy protection and data protection suddenly is a worry of yours. See? ;)

I think you'll likely find American conservatives think:

Private industry: ALWAYS GOOD!! Corporations live to serve, and deliver rainbows, bunnies, and rivers of chocolate to their customers and never, EVER **** them over!!!! Rich people are rich via merit, NEVER because they're predatory douchebags and/or inherited it!!

(Take a look at private contracting in Iraq to see how wonderfully this has all worked out..)

Big Guvmint: ALWAYS BAD, ALWAYS INCOMPETENT!!! If it weren't for governments, Allied private industry would have won World War II in early 1940!!!

Strawman? Not much.

[GoldenRivet]

And yet I'll bet you were conspicuously silent when the Patriot Bill passed. What's the difference...hmmmm....???

why would you bet that? :06:

as far as the census being used only for good and gainful purposes???

tell that to the Japanese Americans interned during world war 2.

Yup... FBI used census documents to round them up.

i dont know how tis came to be about google and private enterprise.

why would anyone trust either or???

EDIT:

at skybird... the boys at google dont have a sprawling military... the government does.

what information do you suppose i have given google?

e mail address? false first and last names? please,

and if i willfully provided them with that information - and it was subpoenaed because i performed illegal activity. FINE

[August]

I think you'll likely find American conservatives think:

Private industry: ALWAYS GOOD!! Corporations live to serve, and deliver rainbows, bunnies, and rivers of chocolate to their customers and never, EVER **** them over!!!! Rich people are rich via merit, NEVER because they're predatory douchebags and/or inherited it!!

(Take a look at private contracting in Iraq to see how wonderfully this has all worked out..)

Big Guvmint: ALWAYS BAD, ALWAYS INCOMPETENT!!! If it weren't for governments, Allied private industry would have won World War II in early 1940!!!

Strawman? Not much.

Was any of this really necessary? Seems that liberals such as yourself were claiming the government was all that and worse just a few years ago. Do you really believe that because the present administration and their Acorn brownshirts are Democrats they are any less a threat than the Republicans were?

[Sailor Steve]

As you may or may not be aware of the only answer you are required to answer is how many people live in your home.
Actually the Constition requires Congress to make "an enumeration". You are not even required to answer that question.

It's a good thing, though, as its purpose is to properly divide the apportionment of the Representatives.

Other than that, ptthhhh!:O: I have a friend who never fails to argue with the census takers. All the more fun, because I've applied to be one. I'm curious to see what kind of instructions they give to the actual field workers.

[nikimcbee]

:haha:
It all makes sense now. They just want SB.:hmmm::haha:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.d8327bcacf2bdc6dee734e608fb13d9 f.1f1&show_article=1

[Platapus]

As you may or may not be aware of the only answer you are required to answer is how many people live in your home.

Better check 13 U.S.C Section 221 :yep:


This thread ain't about Google and nor does it serve as excuse for the Federal government to collect information it doesn't have a constitutional mandate to collect.

It is not the constitution, it is 13 U.S.C Section 5 actually.

[GoldenRivet]

Better check 13 U.S.C Section 221 :yep:




It is not the constitution, it is 13 U.S.C Section 5 actually.

I'd rather send them $100 :up:

[OneToughHerring]

Was any of this really necessary? Seems that liberals such as yourself were claiming the government was all that and worse just a few years ago. Do you really believe that because the present administration and their Acorn brownshirts are Democrats they are any less a threat than the Republicans were?

You have a problem with freedom of speech? Wouldn't surprise me.

[Sailor Steve]

Better check 13 U.S.C Section 221 :yep:




It is not the constitution, it is 13 U.S.C Section 5 actually.
Yep. Give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile. They always manage to create so much more intrusiveness, just because they can.

Time to start fighting again.

[August]

It's a good thing, though, as its purpose is to properly divide the apportionment of the Representatives.

I'm ok with that. I'll give them our names even. But they can go piss up a rope before I give them more.

[SteamWake]

A funny though crossed my mind.

With todays technology and... well... data mining (yes like google) wouldent it be realatively easy to get a really good educated guess?

Why spend millions on a goverment run census?

Couldent a private consulting firm do it cheaper and faster? Hell I bet they already have the numbers pretty damn close already.

By the way I'm not overlooking the fact that jobs will be created. That is a good thing in that some of that money will make it into the hands of Joe Shlub.

Millions of jobs are being created... by the goverment.

These jobs will dry up after the census, after the summer and the poor bastards will be on the streets again.

The timing of this boost in employment is at the very least benifical to the administration.

This does not go un noticed by me. :up:

[Snestorm]

Better check 13 U.S.C Section 221 :yep:




It is not the constitution, it is 13 U.S.C Section 5 actually.

It's a Code. It does NOT trump The Constitution.

The Census is Constitutionaly Authorized to count people, for The Apportionment of Reprensentation (House of Representatives), ONLY.

Do they go door to door for this?

[SteamWake]

Do they go door to door for this?

With clipboard in hand and a smile on their face.

Why do you think they are hiring millions?

[Skybird]

With todays technology and... well... data mining (yes like google) wouldent it be realatively easy to get a really good educated guess?

Why spend millions on a goverment run census?


The state tyranny in Germany is doing it like that. :up: there is a census in Germany this year or next year. The data will not be asked for at the dorr, but directly collected from the database of several offices, like finance authority.

Well, at least the finance authority does not use their data on me to profile my private behaviour, interests, likes and dislikes, and social habits.

[Skybird]

at skybird... the boys at google dont have a sprawling military... the government does.

what information do you suppose i have given google?

e mail address? false first and last names? please,

and if i willfully provided them with that information - and it was subpoenaed because i performed illegal activity. FINE

You do not seem to be aware that every search term you ever enter into Google is stored and linbked to your IP by them for decades to come, also, if oyu use chrome, almost all your entries and internet behavior is stored by them. That is sufficient info to form an almost complete psychological profile of you, your internet habits, interests, desinterests, and social interaction. Hotspots of your comminucation can be identified. such dataset are pure money, and Google bitterly resists legislation attempts to monitor this behavior oif theirs and control it. OF COURSE they plan or do sell these data to marketing companies, producing companies. More, this data can be cross-coupled with data about yourself from other sources, data you mindlessly gave away on "social" networking sites, even stolen data. when it is stored in a database somewhere out there, it can be stolen. according crime rates are steepliy expldoing, both in the US and europe, the FBI has given a warning on this early last year, if I remember correctly, so have German authorities. the German Federal office for data security has explciitly warned of Chrome and Google company itself, labellng their kraken-behavior as a critical threat and espeically criticised that users are left in darkness about how hilarious ammounts of data are getting stored about them by Google. Since Google runs under regulation of amerrican laws and american data proteciton laws in no way compare to the much sharper pendants ineuropoe and Germany, Google easily can be named as the biggest data collector onEarth, and the ammount of data they collect about you exceedfs what even police and intelligence services in europe are allowed to gather in information about you (although in the IT area Eurppoean laws are getting softened up, too).

All this takes place without you being asked, being on control of it, or having any chance to monitor what is being done with your data. Even more, such data, if of a "negative quality", can work against you if somebody like an employer or an insurance company gets access to them. And we see that such datasets not only get sold and handed around, but are attractive taregts for data theft, even more so are data inclduing your health and financial situation. Mind you that Google plans or alredy runs a public Google Health platform, too, where oyu give away such data.

In the end it is a longterm strategy by Google to erect a konopole for the range of software services and products that they offer, chrome is a first obviouzs step into this direction.

People do complain about Microsoft being a monopolist, but they do not complain about Google while there still is time to hinder their plans...? They complain about a census by the government where you must answer oinly a basic question like how many people live in your household, but they do not care for them becoming naked in the eye of an uncontrolled, profit-oriented private company...? Both behaviors are a contradiction in themselves. It is irrational, and absurd. It's like calling "Sharks!" while standing on the centreline of an Autobahn.

People are too uncritical, and too unknowing. The younger even get raised in this bad attitude of mind. And if somebody thinks thgis is not a dangerous developement for any nation and state order in the West, eroding basic principles of democratic systems, then I cannot help him. the inherent weakness of democracy gets exploited by business beyond braking poiint and beyond the point where the sovereignity and rulership of states are being put into question.

[SteamWake]

Well, at least the finance authority does not use their data on me to profile my private behaviour, interests, likes and dislikes, and social habits.

What on earth makes you think they do not?

[Skybird]

What on earth makes you think they do not?
My social network, my internet preferences and preferred items to buy are not interesting for them, they gain no advantage from it as long as they do not open a profit-interested economy branch by themselves or open investigations against me. As one of the underfunded government offices they also probably lack the technical capacity to do this kind of profiling all by themselves. And finally, they have no legal authority to use my data for this type of processing.

In case of ´Google, all these answers are very different. Google has a business interest to learn about my profile. They are neither underfunded nor limited in their tehcncial capacity to store and process data and use it for profiling, or sell it to companies using it for profiling. And while they do not have a legal call to do all this they are nevertheless legally free to do so. American law protects this type of invasive business. Much of what Us laws allows would be considered as violation of privatesphere in Europe, or illegal data mining. EU experts in the past considered the US to be a developement county regarding data protection legislation, while EU members themseoves, on the other hand, on not few occasions exaggerate it with data protection concerns. The US and Europe are different in this: privatesphere and data protection laws. That'S why there are frequent clashes over data sharing, air passenger data sharing, credit card data sharing, as well as conflicts with Google over things like streetview, etc etc etc.

[mookiemookie]

I wonder if the right wing was so riled up about this back in the 1990 census when Bush I was in office.

Probably not.

[August]

I wonder if the right wing was so riled up about this back in the 1990 census when Bush I was in office.

Probably not.

But you have absolutely no idea either way and are just mud slinging hoping that something will stick.

[mookiemookie]

But you have absolutely no idea either way and are just mud slinging hoping that something will stick.

You know who else counted people? Hitler. That's who.

[mookiemookie]

and citizens prompted to provide all sorts of personal information. Right down to how many toilets you have in your home :doh:

Where do you get this stuff from? The census asks nothing of the sort. Most of the questions are the same ones asked since 1800. You guys are taking this anti-government stuff past partisan and way on into full on crazy.

http://2010.census.gov/2010census/how/interactive-form.php

[August]

You know who else counted people? Hitler. That's who.

So did the Gandhis. Your point?

[mookiemookie]

So did the Gandhis. Your point?

Just havin' a bit of fun. :O:

[SteamWake]

Where do you get this stuff from? The census asks nothing of the sort. Most of the questions are the same ones asked since 1800. You guys are taking this anti-government stuff past partisan and way on into full on crazy.

http://2010.census.gov/2010census/how/interactive-form.php

Wow cool you got a preview copy?

How else could you know what is in there ! :woot::up:

Wait here I found one for you .. its the ACS or community survey which is an appendage to the Census.. try page 55 ;)

http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Downloads/Questions_Planned_for_the_2010_Census_and_American _Community_Survey.pdf

Please note that by clicking the above link you are rasing a few flags :D

[Ishmael]

As an actual Census worker(yes, Ma. I finally got a job), albeit a mere courier, I find many of these comments quite amusing. So here's what I tell people about the Census.

1. It was first commissioned in 1790 by that Revolutionary Terrorist, George Wahington.

2. All Census information is held by the Census Bureau of the Dept. of Commerce. All of that sensitive personal information y'all are worried about revealing the National Security Agency is already hoovering up through the Warrantless Wiretap Program and National Security Letters. This was implemented by the:
a.Patriot Act
b.Telecommunications Immunity Bill
c.Communications Act of 1996

Why do you think the NSA is building those two new huge data storage facilities in Utah and Texas? The supercomputers at Fort Meade are running out of storage space. You guys should REALLY take a look at:

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com

There's a lot of great information there about the bipartisan National Security Surveillance State and how it ties in to the Worldwide Surveillance Society as a whole.

So, to put things in a nutshell,

Privacy of Communications is DEAD.

Everything we write, talk about, websurf or anything else on the domestic telecommunications infrastructure is going to the NSA & Mossad. I include the Mossad because both the manufacturers of the Semantic Traffic Analyzers used BY the NSA are Israeli-owned companies with links to the aforementioned Mossad. James Bamford's interview at BFP has a nifty little story about a similar system installed in Australia where the Aussies couldn't get the info they wanted on a specific individual so they contacted the Narus company in Israel who passed that info back to the Australian government from Israel.

But what do I know? I only worked in Broadband Telecommunications Operations for 30 years.

[SteamWake]

As an actual Census worker(yes, Ma. I finally got a job), albeit a mere courier, I find many of these comments quite amusing. So here's what I tell people about the Census..

One question for you. Was it 'recommended' to you that get the ACS be filled out as well as the actual census?

[Ishmael]

One question for you. Was it 'recommended' to you that get the ACS be filled out as well as the actual census?

The census forms being mailed to everyone are virtually identical to the forms used in the 1990 & 2000 censuses. It's only when someone fails to return the form that the Census Bureau sends out an enumerator to get the actual count. Hope this clarifies things for you. Also, as a courier, I am tasked to deliver Census paperwork directly to either the field workers/enumerators or the Albuquerque Field Office. I actually have to store it in the trunk of my car whenever I move about. My experience with the Census is that I've seen actual Classified Information that was stored with less attention to security than Census forms.

[GoldenRivet]

to satisfy mookie and his far left agenda ill come right out and say it.

Im NOT a republican

Im NOT a democrat

but my official position:

So long as this administration is in power, and so long as nancy pelosi and her far left progressive, gun hating, God hating AMERICA HATING goons hold the wheel at congress - i will not be cooperative with the powers that be in any way shape or form on the census, or ANY other issue for that matter.

be the president and congress far left... or far right... they are both sprawling and failed models of governance that only represent the interests of the super rich or the poorest of the poor - leaving a HUGE sum of America WITHOUT representation.

My distrust and border line hatred of the federal government was born LONG before anyone voted for a Bush or a Bama or even a Clinton

[Morts]

to satisfy mookie and his far left agenda ill come right out and say it.

Im NOT a republican

Im NOT a democrat

but my official position:

So long as this administration is in power, and so long as nancy pelosi and her far left progressive, gun hating, God hating AMERICA HATING goons hold the wheel at congress - i will not be cooperative with the powers that be in any way shape or form on the census, or ANY other issue for that matter.

be the president and congress far left... or far right... they are both sprawling and failed models of governance that only represent the interests of the super rich or the poorest of the poor - leaving a HUGE sum of America WITHOUT representation.

My distrust and border line hatred of the federal government was born LONG before anyone voted for a Bush or a Bama or even a Clinton
god hating ?

[Tribesman]

will not be cooperative with the powers that be in any way shape or form on the census, or ANY other issue for that matter.


Simple solution, you keep saying you want a rebelion and to build a new free state in Texas.
Do it.
Next time you fill up with gas drive off without paying the taxes the evil feds have put on it, make sure you speed on the wrong side of the road as you must not co-operate with the powers to be in any way whatsoever...actually you had better speed off road as it will be an evil government road and they are just persecuting you.
:doh:
There was quite an interestring article following the Tax terrorist incident the other day about how crazy anti-government conspiracy nuts are quite common in certain areas of certain states no matter which party holds which degree of power.

[Tribesman]

god hating ?
Don't forget the guns hating.
when some people get frustrated they cling to god and guns for comfort, so obviously anyone who frustrates them must be against those things they cling to.
The AMERICA HATING one is the funniest though, since those people are Americans and its the ones who make the accusation who appear to be the ones who hate America.

[GoldenRivet]

god hating ?

Why else remove the mention of God from everything?

@ Tribesman... both parties are really Anti-American.

they both outsource all of our industry, refuse... flat out to protect our sovereignty and seem to do everything they can to smother out our economy.

[Ishmael]

Why else remove the mention of God from everything?

@ Tribesman... both parties are really Anti-American.

they both outsource all of our industry, refuse... flat out to protect our sovereignty and seem to do everything they can to smother out our economy.

Well, we agree on that. So how about THIS as a solution?

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2010/01/29/taking-back-our-government-jury-duty-for-all/

[GoldenRivet]

interesting... but

1. I think these officials should be voted in... thus select 3 or 4 of them and put it to a vote (didnt see if that was in the article)

2. I think it leaves things open ended a bit that one of these guys could be randomly selected.

http://sniroadwarrior.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/redneck.jpg

http://www.urb.com/uploads/blogs/7606/slim-thug.jpg

http://www.urantiansojourn.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/moron.jpg

such an event would substantially increase our closure rate on "idiocracy"

[Sailor Steve]

Why else remove the mention of God from everything?
What mention of God is it that you don't want removed? I'm not anti-religion, but I certainly am anti-theocracy.

[Ishmael]

interesting... but

1. I think these officials should be voted in... thus select 3 or 4 of them and put it to a vote (didnt see if that was in the article)

2. I think it leaves things open ended a bit that one of these guys could be randomly selected.

http://sniroadwarrior.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/redneck.jpg

http://www.urb.com/uploads/blogs/7606/slim-thug.jpg

http://www.urantiansojourn.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/moron.jpg

such an event would substantially increase our closure rate on "idiocracy"

As opposed to the Presidency of the most Incurious man in the world, George W. Bush? The only difference I see between the two is better dental care and nicer clothes. I would venture to say the people pictured above VOTED for Bush TWICE. Yet another reason to reinstitute Civics instruction in our schools like WE had to take. Besides, just from looking at the pictures, I would venture that at least two of them are probably convicted felons and, hence, ineligible.

Ultimately, you either trust your fellow citizens or you don't. I know I would trust your judgement more than Harry Reid. I would assume you would trust MY judgement better than, say, Sarah Palin.

[GoldenRivet]

What mention of God is it that you don't want removed? I'm not anti-religion, but I certainly am anti-theocracy.

aye... but being anti-theocracy and being anti-God are in fact two different things.

dont get me wrong... i dont want a "church ruled state".

and i do believe in separation of church and state.

but i dont want to have my child arrested, harrassed or expelled from school for praying - silently to myself - in class either. :shifty:

and if a parent wants his kid to not recite the pledge of allegiance because it mentions God... fine... but thats no reason to outright ban the pledge of allegiance altogether!

and what about the removal of the ten commandments from court houses.

i cant agree with that. :nope:

is it a matter of the state "endorsing" Christianity because two stone tablets bear ten ideal laws for governance of every day life are present in the court house?

nonsense.

[GoldenRivet]

I know I would trust your judgement more than Harry Reid. I would assume you would trust MY judgement better than, say, Sarah Palin.

true :up:

it is sad though...

more often than not i find myself saying "I didnt vote FOR candidate A... i simply voted AGAINST candidate B."

[Ishmael]

true :up:

it is sad though...

more often than not i find myself saying "I didnt vote FOR candidate A... i simply voted AGAINST candidate B."


Vote SATAN in 2012. Why settle for the LESSER of two Evils?

[GoldenRivet]

Vote SATAN in 2012. Why settle for the LESSER of two Evils?

who is he running against? :haha:

Pelosi?

ok... Satan it is

[Platapus]

but i dont want to have my child arrested, harrassed or expelled from school for praying - silently to myself - in class either. :shifty:




That a real good trick if your child can do it.:D

Can you cite any case where a child was expelled or arrested for praying silently?

If all they wanted to do is pray silently, I would not have a problem with it. But they don't. They want to make it public where some announcement like you need an appointment to pray.

Anyone can pray anytime at school they want and they can do it in a way that no one will notice. But they want to be noticed. That's the issue I don't like.

[Platapus]

more often than not i find myself saying "I didnt vote FOR candidate A... i simply voted AGAINST candidate B."


I honestly can't remember the last time I voted FOR a candidate. :nope:

It always seems to be who do I hate the least. :yep:

[Tribesman]

and if a parent wants his kid to not recite the pledge of allegiance because it mentions God... fine... but thats no reason to outright ban the pledge of allegiance altogether!

Perhaps the pledge shouldn't have had the word God added 60 years after it was introduced.
BTW when it comes to the pledge surely you should't recite it anyway as you are always on about dismembering the country.

and what about the removal of the ten commandments from court houses.

What does the ten commandments have to do with a US courthouse?
Nothing, even if they did have some relation to a US courthouse which of the hundreds of versions should be used.
If a judge broke one of the commandments should he be banned from sitting?
What is really needed is proper biblical law to bring some really good old fashioned god fearing justice to the new theocracy, you can build a better version of saudis interpretation of sharia.

[Sailor Steve]

but i dont want to have my child arrested, harrassed or expelled from school for praying - silently to myself - in class either. :shifty:
Answered, and answered well, by Platapus.

But I'm always reminded of a letter to the Salt Lake Tribune years ago, praising a girl for spontaneously praying out loud at a school assembly. I had to wonder it his praise would have still been there if the girl had been of Japanese descent, and had set up a shinto shrine and prayed to her ancestors.

It's my opinion that people don't want prayer in public schools - they want their prayer in public schools.

and if a parent wants his kid to not recite the pledge of allegiance because it mentions God... fine... but thats no reason to outright ban the pledge of allegiance altogether!
No, the reason to outright ban the Pledge Of Allegiance altogether is that loyalty oaths have no place in a democracy. The pledge is only a little over one hundred years old, and has been rewritten several times.

and what about the removal of the ten commandments from court houses.

i cant agree with that. :nope:

is it a matter of the state "endorsing" Christianity because two stone tablets bear ten ideal laws for governance of every day life are present in the court house?

nonsense.
1. "I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me"

Ideal laws for governence of everyday life? Sounds like endorsing Christianity (or Judaism, if you prefer) to me.

2. "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord Thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; and shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."

What exactly does any of that have to do with public law?

3. "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain: for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain."

Again, pure religion. Why should this be on a courtouse wall?

4. "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. (and more, but I'm tired of typing)."

One more time: What does this have to do with civil law?

The rest are connected with common life, and common sense, and do indeed have some connection to common law, but they are also predated by the Code of Hammurabi, which said many similar things long before. Should we have that on the courthouse wall? It would make more sense.

[Morts]

Why else remove the mention of God from everything?

@ Tribesman... both parties are really Anti-American.

they both outsource all of our industry, refuse... flat out to protect our sovereignty and seem to do everything they can to smother out our economy.
care to explain what she is removing god from, insted of just saying everything ?

[AngusJS]

Google isnt likely to send troops to my door in the middle of the night to arrest my family and I for our religious or political beliefs.And the US government is? :o

Regarding the 10 commandments, prayer and the pledge - what Sailor Steve said.

[GoldenRivet]

And the US government is? :o


more likely than google :haha:

back to the root issue.

the US Congress has the authority to enumerate the citizens via census.

the US Congress does not have the authority to gain any other information through a census

just watch the video the OP posted

[Tribesman]

just watch the video the OP posted
Yeah he's a crazy old coot ain't he, that anti-Ron Paul media conspiracy one is even funnier than his census one.

[August]

And the US government is? :o

I don't think we're at that point, at least not yet, but any government has the potential to become tyrannical.

At least Google doesn't have it's own Armored divisions,...yet. :DL

[Tribesman]

At least Google doesn't have it's own Armored divisions,...yet
don't tell that crazy old guy in the video, he already thinks that Googles "secret" features hide how Obama stole the election