"Not Industry Friendly" (Politics)

[SteamWake]

Some leaked internal memos from Toyota

Internal Toyota documents derided theObama administration and Democratic Congress as “activist” and “not industry friendly,

I have been observing this whole drama with a small amount of disbelief... Floor mats... really?

Yea its crazy talk to say the administration is out to crush their... I'm sorry General Motors compition but you cant help but ponder it.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0210/33248.html

[AVGWarhawk]

No sir, Toyota is in a bit of a pickle. This acceleration problem was noted back in 2002. Was Toyota slow in finding a fix? Yes. Was the NHTSA slow in directing Toyota to recall these cars? Yes. The cars are killing people. The floor mat deal all started as, "faulty installation of floor mats by the customer." WTH? The customer installed the mat incorrectly? That was pure BS. Then Toyota said the gas pedals were the cause. Toyota fingered a Illinois company who makes the pedal. It is made to Toyota's specifications! This company went ballistic. Especially when the issue started in 2002 and this Illinois company did not make the pedal until 2005! It is a cover up and Toyota was attempting to pull the wool over the consumers eyes. Toyota will lose 2 billion this year as a result of this poorly handled issue. Now Mr. Toyoda wants to call foul with Washington? Come on, the last fatality was a state trooper and his family. He removed the floor mat as instructed by Toyota. He and his family ended up in a lake upside down and dead. The floor mat was found in his trunk! The cars are throttled wireless. This is an electical issue with a cableless throttle. Cutting up pedals and removing floor mats was just a way to hold off finding the real problem. Now Toyota says a postage sized piece of metal installed on the pedal will fix it. Yeah sure. Currently the lawsuits lining up for Toyota has gone critical. Negligence, wrongful death and time loss seems to be the leaders for the lawsuits. It will be sometime before Toyota digs out of this one.

This story is far from over.

[Lionclaw]

Excuse me for going a bit off topic.


Wireless throttle?

How long has that been going on?

Same with brakes, I read some time ago about the Toyota Prius which has brake problems due to software bug/fault. :o

Software for brakes? :doh:


Why do they fix issues that aren't broken?

Or is there something bad with the gaspedal connected with a wire to the engine, and brakes with brake lines with hydraulic fluid?

[August]

...and brakes with brake lines with hydraulic fluid?

I thought that Anti-lock braking systems required electronic control.

[SteamWake]

I thought that Anti-lock braking systems required electronic control.

They do I believe the point he was trying to get to is .. what the heck was wrong with good old 'analog' braking systems... it worked so why improve it?

By improving it and adding levels of complexity adds to the chance of something going wrong.

By the way I had a Volkswagon bug with a sticky throttle cable wayyyyy back when I was a young punk. No electronics involved there :haha:

[Lionclaw]

I thought that Anti-lock braking systems required electronic control.

Yes of course.

Traction control, as well.

[AVGWarhawk]

Cable-less throttles have been around a while. My 06 VW Passat is a fly-by-wire throttle. So are the Toyotas. My VW also has electromagnetic steering. No powersteering pump or fluid.

The Prius has noted to have poor braking under rough road conditions and a hesitation to brake under certain conditions. Not good at stop signs! This braking is handled electronically via wheel sensors that detect if the wheel has stopped rotating. This same sensor also detects wheel slipage. Yes, a software adjustment can remedy the problem. Unfortunate Toyota waited so long on this issue like they did with the sudden accelerations problem.

Also, tranmissions are handled electronically for shift points. These two can be adjusted via computer software.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Some leaked internal memos from Toyota



I have been observing this whole drama with a small amount of disbelief... Floor mats... really?

Yea its crazy talk to say the administration is out to crush their... I'm sorry General Motors compition but you cant help but ponder it.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0210/33248.html

Seems appropriate: http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/21/autos/toyota_document/index.htm?hpt=C1

[AVGWarhawk]

They do I believe the point he was trying to get to is .. what the heck was wrong with good old 'analog' braking systems... it worked so why improve it?

By improving it and adding levels of complexity adds to the chance of something going wrong.

By the way I had a Volkswagon bug with a sticky throttle cable wayyyyy back when I was a young punk. No electronics involved there :haha:

There are a couple of reasons for electronic braking systems. These systems react much quicker that the human can. ie, wheels lock up the system will detect this much more quickly than the human can. Plus, most people lay into the brakes thus locking the wheels. It has been deteremined that the stopping distance is greatly reduced if the antilock brake system does the brake pumping for the driver instead of the driver pumping the brake and or not pumping at all to prevent lock up. Also, rear brakes always have a habit of locking as weight is transfered to the front under braking situations. Locked rear wheels can lead to a spin out. As a kid I used to force that spin out :D but that is a different story. So, the possiblity of spin out due to locked rear wheels is reduced. To further this great idea the engineers also discovered that these systems can help prevent wheel spin! Once the sensor detects the wheel spinning like mad it sends a signal to reduce fuel flow, retarding the engine timing thus reducing power to the wheels preventing spin. Normally this gets folks out of trouble while driving. I know it helps my wife in her truck. These systems go even further in helping prevent roll over by apply the brakes when roll over/spin out situation is presenting itself. I have experienced this with the truck as well. The rear tire will spin in a hard corner, usually in rain, the systems activates slows the truck for a spit second and the tire is planeted to the ground. Overall, I'm very impressed with the performance of this technology.

[AVGWarhawk]

Seems appropriate: http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/21/autos/toyota_document/index.htm?hpt=C1


They saved 1 million by dodging the recall but will lose 2 billion in sales. :hmmm: Not a good balance sheet. The giant that overtook VW as the worlds largest sell of cars, blew GM out of the water as the largest sell of the cars has just took three steps back on this one.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

They saved 1 million by dodging the recall but will lose 2 billion in sales. :hmmm: Not a good balance sheet. The giant that overtook VW as the worlds largest sell of cars, blew GM out of the water as the largest sell of the cars has just took three steps back on this one.

And they're going to lose an even vaster amount of money via lawsuits (well, maybe, it depends on who actually got hurt). Too bad the lawyers will get so much of it.

[AVGWarhawk]

Oh gosh, the lawsuits started about two weeks ago. The suits are negligence, time loss (people did not want to drive the cars. Could not get to work, long line to get the recall repaired), wrongful death, loss of resale value and the ever present emotional distress:doh:. But yes, this story is far from over and for what? Profits! That is all this is about. What are a few lives in the name of profits? Mr. Toyoda can apologize all day long but at the end of the day people will see Toyota was cutting quality in the name of profits. In the name of keeping cars within the same price range as the competitors. In doing so the consumer bought the farm in the end. Not a good showing. Then to call Washington as non-industry friendly? Does Mr. Toyoda realize the US is the largest market for their product? Does he realize he has factories here in the US? In all reality he should provide the NHSTA what they want and be truthful in the matter.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Oh gosh, the lawsuits started about two weeks ago. The suits are negligence, time loss (people did not want to drive the cars. Could not get to work, long line to get the recall repaired), wrongful death, loss of resale value and the ever present emotional distress:doh:. But yes, this story is far from over and for what? Profits! That is all this is about. What are a few lives in the name of profits? Mr. Toyoda can apologize all day long but at the end of the day people will see Toyota was cutting quality in the name of profits. In the name of keeping cars within the same price range as the competitors. In doing so the consumer bought the farm in the end. Not a good showing. Then to call Washington as non-industry friendly? Does Mr. Toyoda realize the US is the largest market for their product? Does he realize he has factories here in the US? In all reality he should provide the NHSTA what they want and be truthful in the matter.

Well, a whole bunch of Toyota executives are going to lose their jobs over this. Being Japanese, they probably don't have golden parachutes, either.

[AVGWarhawk]

Hari Kari comes to mind.....:hmmm:

[Bubblehead1980]

Obama Admin is activist and not friendly to business??? No you don't say??? lol I knew that from the first time I heard the fool speak(and no I was not inspired etc, just a lot of hype) before he was even won the Soc... well Democratic nomination.

However, Toyota can't use the anti-business admin as an excuse on this one, they knew about this problem and have tried to cover it up, now they are paying.

[AVGWarhawk]

It really is not Obama on this matter. Two entites will go under the microscope. Toyota and NHTSA. When did Toyota know? Why so long to react? When did the NHTSA know? Why so late in directing Toyota to recall? This is not the first Washington has gotten involved. Remember Firestone and Ford with rolling over SUV's? Was it Ford or the tires Firestone made for the truck the cause for the rollovers? Either way both got a black eye for it and Washington was involved with that safety recall.

[SteamWake]

I'm assuming that when its all over and the smoke clears Toyota may just well pull out of the US altogether.

[Bubblehead1980]

It really is not Obama on this matter. Two entites will go under the microscope. Toyota and NHTSA. When did Toyota know? Why so long to react? When did the NHTSA know? Why so late in directing Toyota to recall? This is not the first Washington has gotten involved. Remember Firestone and Ford with rolling over SUV's? Was it Ford or the tires Firestone made for the truck the cause for the rollovers? Either way both got a black eye for it and Washington was involved with that safety recall.

I basically said it was not Obama on this one, but Toyota was using the truth that the admin really is activist and not business friendly to try and deflect some of the outrage.Perhaps this will ruin Toyota and as steamwake said, just pull out of US.Oh yea, pretty sure it was the tires as my aunt was one of them who's tires blew out and flipped her SUV, luckily she survived with minor injuries.

[AVGWarhawk]

Got ya Bubblehead. So you are close to home on safety issues and cars? I suspected the tires as well in that issue. Glad you aunt survived the ordeal. So, you understand very well when safety issues like this are brushed under the carpet things look very bad for the company and even worse for the consumer. I do not think Toyota will pull out of the US. To much invested. Personally, I would go buy a Toyota today without a worry to be honest. Like Firestone with tires and Ford with rolling fireballs called Pinto, both survived to manufacture another day. However, this is a boon for Ford, Honda, Nissan, VW and all the others who make cars. Toyota is written off the list of cars to see by most looking at the moment!

[AVGWarhawk]

I thought this was electrical in nature:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-recall-electronic-design-flaw-linked-toyota-runaway-acceleration-problems/story?id=9909319

Floor mats, grinding gas pedals....sure.....Toyota in big doo doo.