SUBSIM: Silent Hunter 5 preview

[Onkel Neal]

Silent Hunter 5 Preview (http://www.subsim.com/2010_02/sh5/preview_sh5_feb2010.php)

When Silent Hunter 5 was announced, many players were expecting (and hoping) for a SH3 2.0, a solid, realistic simulation with a few key upgrades, such as a fully detailed U-boat interior, more crew interaction, and wolfpacks. It looks like their wishes have been answered, to a degree.

http://www.subsim.com/2010_02/sh5/2010%2002%2007/sh5_intro/sh5%202010-02-18%2014-13-10-26_small.jpg



SUBSIM SH5 Videos:

Silent Hunter 5 - Torpedo reload sequence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QJnhU18hw4&hd=1)

Silent Hunter 5 - Farewell, old friend (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2-J9dxQ7ps&hd=1)

Silent Hunter 5 - Manual TDC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3sOA-UWk74&hd=1)

Silent Hunter 5 - OSP examined! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PzqPuH4D8k)

Silent Hunter V - Type VII U-boat walkthrough (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HscHJooBflc&hd=1)

Silent Hunter V - Smoke on the horizon! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vD4MLTm6Uc&hd=1)


SH5 Dev Team Interview (http://www.subsim.com/ssr/sh5/preview_sh5_jan2010.php) - first details of the game scope, sub types, and more.
.

[Chad]

Good preview. The screenshots look great! Wish they'd at least let us know if a US Special Edition will be available

[onelifecrisis]

Thanks Neal. Twas a good read... with a rather negative ending. :-?

[Snake Man]

Thank you very much for the preview, it was very informative with nice screenshots. I appreciate you taking the time and do the shots and write the preview, not to mention publish it for us everyone to see.

I can't wait for your Review of the game.

Keep up the good SubSim work! :)

[jwilliams]

Thanks for the preview Neal. :yeah:


Yeah im def going to wait for the full review.

Hope the preview version was made a long time before you recieved it. Otherwise the release version is going to be unfinished.:nope:

Also lack of sales for SH4 could be becuase they aimed it at a more casual player. I know that as soon as I read about SH4 being for more casual players I lost intrest and never bought it.

[Heretic]

Thanks Neal.
I hope I'm not out of line here, but I thought that first screenshot made such a nice wallpaper that I edited out the GUI elements and made it available here:
http://webpages.charter.net/mdpeyton/sh5%202010-02-21%2015-27-16-73.jpg

[Sone7]

Thank you Neal, good work!
We owe you ;)

[ThePinkSubmarine]

Thanks Neal!

Your preview has answered some of my questions. Looks like you have a little too much water in the control room!

I don't know what I think about the new TDC style. I have to be honest and say that only recently have I been brave enough to try it the manual way; and that looks kind of like a bummer!

Compared to SHII and SHIII the graphics look amazing! I was looking at an old preview for SHII the other day - and couldn't believe how bad the graphics look by today's standards.

It's going to be a long 2 weeks...

[Tarnsman]

Great srticle.
Im excited.
Fingers crossed that its good under the hood (tracking, shooting, hiding, parts). Not a fan of the interface panels they look too much like a 1980s vintage Nakamichi stereo system (beutifull but not very Blom & Voss if you know what I mean) but I'll take it that it can be modded. Its still better than the SH4 interface which I just wont go into again.

The full boat and crew interactin will hopefully keep me inside the boat adding to the immersion for me. So I hope it sells well and we get SH6 the Pacific down the line!

[ThePinkSubmarine]

Only gripe that I have from your preview is the uniforms. I really feel that Ubisoft Romania needs to do their homework on Kriegsmarine uniforms. Look at the guy in the stern torpedo/E-Room. Is he in the Coastal Marine -- as his uniform suggests to me...or is he a U-Boat sailor? And why does he have a pistol?

You guys might laugh -- but that is what I've always considered the one major eye sore of the series.

[Dowly]

Thanks, Neal! :salute:

[ReFaN]

Awesome Preview, thanks Neal :woot:

[ThePinkSubmarine]

Thanks Neal.
I hope I'm not out of line here, but I thought that first screenshot made such a nice wallpaper that I edited out the GUI elements and made it available here:
http://webpages.charter.net/mdpeyton/sh5%202010-02-21%2015-27-16-73.jpg


Thanks for the wallpaper Heretic! It Looks great!

[Sone7]

Please enlight me: is it possible to make our own entries into captain's log?
That's one of the things I was hoping for ;)

[pythos]

I recall in reading about the uniforms of the Uboat waffen that there was no "uniform" for on sea operations. In other words there was no one way for the crews of these boats to dress, when at sea.

Concerning the content of this preview. It was good, it also seemed fair.

The last part of the report thought left me a bit uneasy about the fate of the simulator. It sounds the bugs of the preview copy are pretty awful, and may not have gotten dealt with in the retail copy, meaning a patch almost imediately.

Now, have they not answered if these patches are gonna be done in the same fashion as those for World of Warcraft, giving more of a reason for DRM, though I just wish that would fizzle.

The sim looks very promising though, especially if the modders can have their way with it.

We shall see, what we shall see.

[karamazovnew]

Superb preview Neal :salute:.

I have one question: is it possible to set a course manually to a specific heading as it was in sh1-sh4?
So far I've yet to see a way to input course or rudder angle apart from clicking on the minimap to change the heading. :shifty:

[ThePinkSubmarine]

I recall in reading about the uniforms of the Uboat waffen that there was no "uniform" for on sea operations. In other words there was no one way for the crews of these boats to dress, when at sea.


That's my understanding as well...


Neal -- what can you do as far as upgrades? Can you upgrade sub systems like in the older games in the series?

Any hint of a 'fast dive deck?' I saw a picture of one for the 1st time not too long ago...wish I could remember where - because I have NEVER seen a picture of a U-Boat featuring anything even remotely like that before.

[Onkel Neal]

Here's the reason as I understand it games get a patch on the first day it goes on sale: the game's development team has a ship date they are trying to make. Rarely if ever is a game on schedule and they can tie a nice bow on it and ship bugfree by the deadline. In most cases, they are behind schedule and putting in long hours to get everything working decently, trying to work out the major showstopper bugs first. When the day comes, they will put together a build and send it to be mastered. This gives them two more weeks before the game hits the stores to work on the game and that work gets to greet the game as patch 1. So, they know there are things that need attention, it's a matter of resources. If the game publisher thinks allocating more resources (people to work on it) for a 2nd and 3rd patch will keep sales coming in, they may elect to do that, support the game with another patch.

That's the way I understand it, there are folks here who know more about that end of the game biz than me.

A sub game: For the game publisher, it's a business decision. For the gamer, it's a consumer decision. For people like me who love all sub games, it's a necessity.

[ThePinkSubmarine]

Neal --

I know you can't be specific since you have the pre-release version (and that'd be unfair to down play a pre=release copy). But as far as initial bugs go -- are looking about the same as SH4 when it first came out?

[609_Avatar]

:salute: Neal and thanks. Was a good read! Like others here, I'm looking forward to your review with bated breath.

[Adriatico]

It will take a fair amount of love to nurse this baby - both from Ubi and community side... till it's first birthday.
But I'm afraid that one parent axed up the relationship into divorce...:dead:

Your preview needs no patches or moding...
Thanks Neal!

[Onkel Neal]

Superb preview Neal :salute:.

I have one question: is it possible to set a course manually to a specific heading as it was in sh1-sh4?
So far I've yet to see a way to input course or rudder angle apart from clicking on the minimap to change the heading. :shifty:

Yes, you are correct, there was no simple way to change course, such as a compass rose or rudder dial. You can change by moving the waypoints (which I forgot to mention, the waypoint system is well done.) or you can use Shift <-- or Shift --> for full rudder port and starboard, with 0 on the keypad to center amidships. Now, that may change in the final version, I don't know. That's why I don't mention those things specifically.

That's my understanding as well...


Neal -- what can you do as far as upgrades? Can you upgrade sub systems like in the older games in the series?

Any hint of a 'fast dive deck?' I saw a picture of one for the 1st time not too long ago...wish I could remember where - because I have NEVER seen a picture of a U-Boat featuring anything even remotely like that before.

I know you can't be specific since you have the pre-release version (and that'd be unfair to down play a pre=release copy). But as far as initial bugs go -- are looking about the same as SH4 when it first came out?



No, in my version there was no commander's office with the screens for rewarding officers, changing men, and upgrading the sub. Again, that may be in the final version. These preview builds do not always have all the eventual items included.

As far as estimating the release game's quality based on the preview build, you're right, I am hesitant to do that. The release game + patch 1 could be a solid game, who knows? My build had its share of problems, I think it is detrimental to the core market segment (you) to paint a rosy picture when the reality may be grim. I've had a hunch the game was in trouble for months, based on the Ubisoft's maddening reluctance to allow access to the game as it developed. If I was going to guess, I would say we are more along the lines of Silent Hunter 2, in terms of quality and finish.

Yeah, I know. :o

But, have faith, because as clunky as SH2 was, most of the Subsim community bit the bullet and bought it, and made the best of it. And it sold well in the general market, too. I guess people were starved for some U-boat action, even if it had useless AI and a scripted campaign. Those sales became the reason Ubisoft greenlit another U-boat game, and we know what that was. So who knows, maybe SH5 will arrive in fairly good shape, maybe its casual gamer appeal will transate into big sales across the market segments. And maybe, just maybe, Ubisoft will follow through and deliver support. They did it in the past.

And yes, I will not argue that people should feel obligated to buy an unfinished game, or a game of poor quality. Let me get that in there before I get hit over the head with it :) It's your money, it's a free market, do as you wish. We have choices, pick some other high fidelity U-boat subsim. We still have SH3!

[ThePinkSubmarine]

Well you don't have to sell me Neal -- Although I'm sad to hear that; but that's always been UBI's problem.

I already bit the bullet and pre-ordered the game! I've never been a Type VII fan; but all I know -- is there's NO way BdU is sending me in the Med without a VIIC/41 with an anti-aircraft upgrade...too many Allied planes in that neck of the woods!

[Iron Budokan]

Thank you for the preview, Neal. You answered many of my questions, and cemented many of my previously held beliefs regarding this game.

[brett25]

thanks alot for that review

[THE_MASK]

This was on my wishlist "Time compression includes a feature to let you ignore friendly vessel alerts, so in theory, you won't drop out of TC unless an enemy shows up. "

[JScones]

Easily the most balanced, considered and informative SH5 preview I have read to date. Thanks Neal. :up: :salute:

[Sgtmonkeynads]

The Cook is the onlly Nazi on board.....Be nice to him, he's making your food.


Tell me Neal, how hard was it to NOT type.." or, No Soup For You !" I don't think I could have resisted the perfect set up for a Sienfeld joke of that calibur. Good preview review, gives me a different look at the whole game now and it will be better in a few months after being modded. But man what a canvas the guys have to work with this time. I can't wait for the future.

[Buck_O]

Thanks Neal, I agree with your opinion on the interface. Needs to have a more 1940's feel...mechanical....not modern computer..ish..

[The Enigma]

Thanks for the preview. :up:

After reading it, I must conclude that the action elements are shifted towards
interior and crew and moved away from manual navigation and targeting.
Am I correct with that?

[martes86]

Here's the reason as I understand it games get a patch on the first day it goes on sale: the game's development team has a ship date they are trying to make. Rarely if ever is a game on schedule and they can tie a nice bow on it and ship bugfree by the deadline. In most cases, they are behind schedule and putting in long hours to get everything working decently, trying to work out the major showstopper bugs first. When the day comes, they will put together a build and send it to be mastered. This gives them two more weeks before the game hits the stores to work on the game and that work gets to greet the game as patch 1. So, they know there are things that need attention, it's a matter of resources. If the game publisher thinks allocating more resources (people to work on it) for a 2nd and 3rd patch will keep sales coming in, they may elect to do that, support the game with another patch.

That's the way I understand it, there are folks here who know more about that end of the game biz than me.

Sounds about right to me. :up:

And thanks for the preview. :DL

Cheers :rock:

[Schultzy]

A very good preview, it was fair and gave us an unbiased peek at the state of the game, as it was when they sent it to you.
I appreciate you writing this for us Neal. Thank you.

[LukeFF]

Good review, Neal.

Anyone notice the Bosun has a rank of Kapitan zur See? :rotfl2:

[urfisch]

thanks a lot, neal!

[TH0R]

Tanks for the preview Neal. Looking forward to the review. :)

[d@rk51d3]

The Cook is the onlly Nazi on board.....Be nice to him, he's making your food.


Tell me Neal, how hard was it to NOT type.." or, No Soup For You !" I don't think I could have resisted the perfect set up for a Sienfeld joke of that calibur. Good preview review, gives me a different look at the whole game now and it will be better in a few months after being modded. But man what a canvas the guys have to work with this time. I can't wait for the future.


Damn, you beat me to the soup nazi pun. :O:

[KL-alfman]

very interesting read!
thx, Neal, for being very balanced (one might say: "neutral") and describing all the pros and cons.

[Florent]

Nice review, i ordered the collector edition and have no regret. The bad sea is terrific, i think that many features will be added for the final games (oilskins for exemple for bad sea) and that other will be improved by modders and official patchs.:up:

[Mud]

Great preview, it helps me in my decision to buy it ....... or not

Thanks Neal:salute:

Mud

[Nisgeis]

This was on my wishlist "Time compression includes a feature to let you ignore friendly vessel alerts, so in theory, you won't drop out of TC unless an enemy shows up. "

That one caught my attention too. Not one for the realism fans though :DL.

Thanks for the preview Neal.

[piri_reis]

Detailed and very informative, this is how a preview should be done, thanks for showing it to the world gaming press Neal :up:

OTH, the realism, interface and stability issues are a greater fear in my mind then before. There are a lot of things I like about the new game, but will have to wait if some of the weak spots can modded;
like a compass rose to navigate,
fully manual targetting, TDC and everything,
GUI overhaul,
etc.
If the modding capabilities are in depth, and there is no show stopping bugs, I'll think of buying it.
(Not to mention OSP is considered in the bugs section and we shall see how that pans out.)

[Letum]

A well written preview. Good job Neal.

A shame it doesn't have much in it to lift the gloom.

[oscar19681]

The review looked very promissing! I noticed in the first screenshot that the captain is presented in external view! Cool! The captain log doesnt show any ability to add some writing yourself though. I was kind of hoping for that.

[derblaueClaus]

Thanks Neal, good review. But I think I'll wait a little bit to buy SHV. There are to many features missing in your Preview-Version. I don't think that one month is enough to get them into the game and working properly.

[Fire]

Nice Preview.

I'd like to know if there is also the UZO avaliable for surface torpedo attacks?

I read in antoher preview that you can only target and fire the torpedos from the periscope view. Hope it isn't so.

[oscar19681]

Nice Preview.

I'd like to know if there is also the UZO avaliable for surface torpedo attacks?

I read in antoher preview that you can only target and fire the torpedos from the periscope view. Hope it isn't so.

If you seen all of neals video,s you can see you can use the uzo.

[Nufsed]

Thank you Neal, nice preview. It seems to me that regardless of the fuss surrounding this latest offering i.e. DRM etc, what we have here is a superb base from which to start. I, like yourself, am a wholehearted fan of SH3, and have all the available supermods on my machine (the most stable of which, I have to say is GWX, thanks guys). I would guess that most of the negativity is coming from those not so hardened enthusiasts. Because I for one will buy this game "regardless" of it's initial problems knowing full well that our dedicated band of brothers (i.e. the modders) will turn this game into somthing superb.

[Steeltrap]

Great preview, Onkel.

Anyone notice your first mission as kaleun in the "Total Germany" part of the campaign was to sink 50,000t on the East coast of Britain from 6th Sept '39- June 1940?

50,000t

Only 84 commanders achieved that or better in the entire war.

Yippee-shoot, here we come.....:down:

(well, I won't as I won't buy it with DRM)

[oscar19681]

Great preview, Onkel.

Anyone notice your first mission as kaleun in the "Total Germany" part of the campaign was to sink 50,000t on the East coast of Britain from 6th Sept '39- June 1940?

50,000t

Only 84 commanders achieved that or better in the entire war.

Yippee-shoot, here we come.....:down:

(well, I won't as I won't buy it with DRM)

I think this was a single mission. Oeps! no its not. WTF?

[EgoApocalypse]

Cool...cant wait:salute:

[Galanti]

One area where Silent Hunter V has taken a big step back is the interface. Gone are the small telegraph, compass, and depth dials. In their place are Win7 style controls that look out of place in a U-boat.


Neal, I could kiss you (closed mouth, of course). Thanks for articulating my main non-DRM gripe with the game. Looking over more of the screenshots you've posted, I'm just flabbergasted at the artistic and design choices they've made with this one. I just don't get it.

I don't buy the 'attraction to the casual gamer' argument for making the thing look like an IPhone app either; there are a number of WW2 console arcade games where the GUI is deliberately designed to convey that 1940's feeling. I was just playing Blazing Aces on the Wii of all things this weekend, and it did a better job at GUI immersion. Bah.

Yes, it can be modded (probably), but it will be a giant job, as it's everywhere, from mission orders to radio log to speed indicator. Some of you guys can piss and moan about SH4's interface all you like, but at least the radio message flimsies looked like radio message flimsies.

That said, there a number of other things to get excited about, if we can shut off the HUD with one key as with other installments, the interiors look great, and I can see myself losing hours wandering from bow to stern.

What's your sense of how replaceable the crew members are? I had though only the principal officers and the Soup Nazi were fully developed, but now we're seeing that lowly crew members have personalities. Does this mean no one on the boat can die? Or get transferred?

[ReallyDedPoet]

Thanks Neal :up: Some nice stuff in there, also a few areas of concern.

I bought IV as soon as it came out. In the end it turned out to be a great sim, but only after multiple patches and some great modding.
With V I plan to take a sit back and wait approach.

[Andrew82]

Thnx Neal, for this nice preview! :salute:

[longam]

Thanks Neal, good preview.

[Frederf]

Thanks for the review Neal, quite like the cut of your jib on this one. It's a good balance between optimistic and critical with some grade A information.

Time compression includes a feature to let you ignore friendly vessel alerts

It's a nice feature to be sure... the only better version would be "ignore unidentified or friendly vessel" so there is a danger of sailing 2000m away from a British merchant before Fritz comes and shakes you out of your bunk! Turn it on in friendly waters so you don't get pestered unless the watch crew finds out it's enemy (less range than spotting him in the first place.) Then you turn this off once in enemy waters so you get notified of every contact no matter what.

One area where Silent Hunter V has taken a big step back is the interface. Gone are the small telegraph, compass, and depth dials. In their place are Win7 style controls that look out of place in a U-boat.

I have mixed feelings about this. The digital speed is wrong but the conversation UI doesn't look old-timey? I think the conversation UI can look how ever it wants as long as it is unobtrusive. Surely talking looks the same now as in WWII. It's a shame that the captain's log doesn't look old though (since the log was a real antique object and not abstract like an order or conversation). Doubly sad that you can't add personalized entries (it seems).

[oscar19681]

Thanks for the review Neal, quite like the cut of your jib on this one. It's a good balance between optimistic and critical with some grade A information.



It's a nice feature to be sure... the only better version would be "ignore unidentified or friendly vessel" so there is a danger of sailing 2000m away from a British merchant before Fritz comes and shakes you out of your bunk! Turn it on in friendly waters so you don't get pestered unless the watch crew finds out it's enemy (less range than spotting him in the first place.) Then you turn this off once in enemy waters so you get notified of every contact no matter what.



I have mixed feelings about this. The digital speed is wrong but the conversation UI doesn't look old-timey? I think the conversation UI can look how ever it wants as long as it is unobtrusive. Surely talking looks the same now as in WWII. It's a shame that the captain's log doesn't look old though (since the log was a real antique object and not abstract like an order or conversation). Doubly sad that you can't add personalized entries (it seems).

Yes about the personal entries. It was requested for sh-3 and 4 and very early on for sh-5. Still its not there. I mean how hard could it have been for the devs to add this. I mean sh-2 had it. The logbook itself makes me feel like i,m checking my mail on laptop in a u-boat in 1942!! I hop this will be modded soon enough.

[Sharkfin]

Thanks for the great preview Neal. Looking forward for Your review when the game ist on the store shelves in March.

[Alex]

Nice article, Neal, thank you very much. :up:


Poor ole Kiel Canal... :wah:
http://www.subsim.com/2010_02/sh5/2010%2002%2007/sh5_intro/sh5%202010-02-18%2015-06-57-96_small.jpg (http://www.subsim.com/2010_02/sh5/2010%2002%2007/sh5_intro/sh5%202010-02-18%2015-06-57-96.jpg)

[Bilge_Rat]

Here's the reason as I understand it games get a patch on the first day it goes on sale: the game's development team has a ship date they are trying to make. Rarely if ever is a game on schedule and they can tie a nice bow on it and ship bugfree by the deadline. In most cases, they are behind schedule and putting in long hours to get everything working decently, trying to work out the major showstopper bugs first. When the day comes, they will put together a build and send it to be mastered. This gives them two more weeks before the game hits the stores to work on the game and that work gets to greet the game as patch 1. So, they know there are things that need attention, it's a matter of resources. If the game publisher thinks allocating more resources (people to work on it) for a 2nd and 3rd patch will keep sales coming in, they may elect to do that, support the game with another patch.

That's the way I understand it, there are folks here who know more about that end of the game biz than me.

A sub game: For the game publisher, it's a business decision. For the gamer, it's a consumer decision. For people like me who love all sub games, it's a necessity.

That is correct. Once all the features are in and there are no major bugs remaining, the game goes from Beta to Gold status. This may be as much as a month before release date since the game will have to be put on DVDs, boxed and shipped out and uploaded on servers for downloads. Meanwhile, the developpers will keep working on the game trying to track down any remaining bugs or new ones which pop up. The patch which comes out on game day (more and more a common occurrence) therefore represents up to a month of additional work.

[coronas]

Thanks Neal! Interesting preview!
:salute:

[Bilge_Rat]

Now, here's something I have always been interested in: crew AI. It seems in SH5 their ability to detect ships is slightly less than yours. To test this out, I approached an enemy task force based on sound bearings. I kept watch with the AI crew on the bridge, and I was able to make out the ships on the horizon before the AI crew did. Big plus for that, I like incentives to get more involved in the gameplay and this one is appreciated.

I was under the impression it was designed that way in SH3 and SH4 as well. Am I remembering wrong?

[janh]

Nice review, indeed. Though it sets off all of my alarm bells. The game looks quite arcadish, and some of the features you described support the change of audience Ubisoft may be trying here. Plus the bug issues of SHII, III and IV before repeated patching appears to reoccur. That was the main reason I didn't buy SHIV (besides lack of new features), so here is maybe a dejá vu? My conclusion (to be adjusted by future reviews) is that SHV will likely require substantial patching and at least 1-2 years for modders to remove the arcade elements, and bring back the core of SHIII with the other boats and the last war years. Before serious modders come up with such supermods, there is little chance that I would abandon SHIII even though it has no wolf packs.

Anyway, with the online-DRM for single player my answer remains No by principle. So many other companies from gaming and software to music and DVDs have started to reduce use of DRM as they seemed to realize that it hurts more customers than pirates, that Ubisoft's move seems to be totally surreal. Some companies do not care about customer wishes, and I really don't want to see the times where you have to be online 100% of the time if you want to run anything on your computer -- and if we don't stop this trend by exerting our customers rights, Neal will be right that companies will try that in the future.

One question: The campaign speaks of "missions"? Neal, can you specify more accurately how the campaign system works? This seems to be the only highlight here. Are those "scripted" missions? Or are all time-relevant, local campaigns running simultaneously and I can select where to head to with my boat and influence the outcome?
Example: I saw the Poland mission, or the British East coast convoys. Or both active simulationeously? And what if I want to ignore both and head my boat over to the french West coast?

[KL-alfman]

I would guess that most of the negativity is coming from those not so hardened enthusiasts.


I strongly disagree.

[jerm138]

Thanks for the preview.
And thanks for mentioning the bit about the interface. I have found it to be an eyesore since the first time I saw it, but haven't heard many other complaints about it (with the DRM complaints drowning everything else out.)

I'm sure the interface can be modded, but you'd think they would have made it 1940's-style from the beginning, or maybe offer a couple different-style interfaces (who knows, maybe they will)... that way the A.D.D. iGeneration can still have their sleek-looking modern interface, and we'd get something that's more fitting to the era.

[Lord Justice]

Sir Neal, good stuff, i think it likely to do the cause some good with pepole of positive judgement. A much needed sensible satisfaction to read, thank you kindly sir :up: and good day. :)

[609_Avatar]

...I'm sure the interface can be modded, but you'd think they would have made it 1940's-style from the beginning, or maybe offer a couple different-style interfaces (who knows, maybe they will)... that way the A.D.D. iGeneration can still have their sleek-looking modern interface, and we'd get something that's more fitting to the era.

That was my take on it. The 40s might just be too retro for the younger crowd for them to get into it. As they've been stating, they are trying to appeal to the greater masses and maybe their "research" has indicated this sort of thing... Who knows. With the developers stating how modifiable it will be I'll be people will be able to have whatever kind of interface they want.

[Ping Jockey]

Good preview Neal!!

[col_Kurtz]

Thanks Neal.
I hope I'm not out of line here, but I thought that first screenshot made such a nice wallpaper that I edited out the GUI elements and made it available here:
http://webpages.charter.net/mdpeyton/sh5%202010-02-21%2015-27-16-73.jpg


For me it`s a great and nice wallpaper of the game... wich I will never see :O:

[Eightbit]

It's kinda funny actually. Because it looks like a really nice interface (lots of features) But I have to agree, sh series has never really used much of an interface or had much need for a big one. Sadly its pretty unfitting.

I think I actually enjoyed the interiors of sh3 more then what I have seen of sh5. sh3 seemed more gloomy and dark. Also looked a little more detailed.

[Subtype Zero]

Thank you for the preview, Neal.

Although I will not be purchasing SH5 until something is done about the DRM straight-jacket, I would like to offer an optimistic opinion regarding the (currently) arcadish interface.

My unsupported theory is that the devs were told by Ubisoft very early on that Ubi wanted SH5 to be as appealing to young and inexperienced gamers as possible in order to avoid letting the franchise go "stale." This explains the attention to eye-candy, RGP or FPS elements, and the simplistic Windows 7 type interface. Plus, the devs were held to a fast development cycle in order to get the game out the door as soon as possible. This forced them to concentrate on just enough for a "basic" sub simulation: only one submarine type, a shortened campaign (avoiding the technological complexities of the late war), simplistic (but functional) interface, etc.

I would not be surprised (but do not expect) that one of the early patches will contain a more authentic interface. More likely, Ubisoft will concentrate on squashing the bugs caused by the rushed delivery and leave the "fixing" of the interface to the modders. This probably explains the devs comment that SH5 will be the most friendly to modders SH yet. Making the game easy to mod relieves the devs of extra work and helps them to get the game out the door quickly.

Such is the state of PC gaming these days, I'm afraid.

[Uber Gruber]

Thanks for the preview... DRM aside for a moment, it comes across as a more graphical SH3....i.e. better looking environment but just as buggy as all the other SH titles.

Now factor in DRM and its of no interest at all to me.

One for the failure charts methinks and will most probably sell less than SH4.:nope:

[Safe-Keeper]

Anyone notice your first mission as kaleun in the "Total Germany" part of the campaign was to sink 50,000t on the East coast of Britain from 6th Sept '39- June 1940?

50,000tHow do you know it was a single mission? Looks to me to be one of the "major goals" in the campaign, that you and other subs achieve over time.

[Nordmann]

Thanks Neal, a fair preview in my opinion.

Thanks Neal. Twas a good read... with a rather negative ending. :-?

No point sugar coating it, the game has some negative issues, which hopefully will be resolved in the near future.

I would guess that most of the negativity is coming from those not so hardened enthusiasts.

A bold statement, and completely untrue. As a matter of fact, the game has received negativity from all quarters, and rightly so.

[tienman75]

Thanks, Neal :up:

[conus00]

Thanks for the preview, Neal. :salute:
Well written, with good points and insights. Unfortunately it just confirmed my decision to not to buy the game (at it's release anyway) and wait and see...

I'm not sure how busy are you in your real life but here is a thought:
Considering, that you have just written preview and you will be waiting for final release it would be great if you could start a new thread (something like Q&A between you and the subsim community) and address some of the questions and concerns.

Something like
Q: Is it possible to run both diesels separately?
A: Yes, in a copy I have tested it is possible.

It would be nice to have them all in one thread.
If your time restrictions don't allow it, of course we understand.. :)

[Safe-Keeper]

Once the game is out, I suppose we can start a sort of collaboration thread where those who buy the game answer questions for those who don't.

[tommyk]

Thanks for the review, Neal!

Is it possible to run 1920x1200 w/ AA like 16xQ?

cheers

[Parkera]

Thanks for the preview, Neal. :salute:

I'm not sure how busy are you in your real life but here is a thought:
Considering, that you have just written preview and you will be waiting for final release it would be great if you could start a new thread (something like Q&A between you and the subsim community) and address some of the questions and concerns.

Something like
Q: Is it possible to run both diesels separately?
A: Yes, in a copy I have tested it is possible.

It would be nice to have them all in one thread.
If your time restrictions don't allow it, of course we understand.. :)


Great Idea, will help alot of folk esp newbies. And hopefully condense alot of these threads down.:yeah:

[Safe-Keeper]

One question: The campaign speaks of "missions"? Neal, can you specify more accurately how the campaign system works? This seems to be the only highlight here. Are those "scripted" missions? Or are all time-relevant, local campaigns running simultaneously and I can select where to head to with my boat and influence the outcome?
Example: I saw the Poland mission, or the British East coast convoys. Or both active simulationeously? And what if I want to ignore both and head my boat over to the french West coast? Seeing that previews have told us that you'll be able to plan how to accomplish your campaign goals, it's logical in my eyes to assume that it'll be like SHIII's "free roam" structure, where you are free to go where-ever you want and do whatever you want. So if you feel you'll accomplish your goals the easiest by going to site x and hunt warships, you're free to do so, and if you're successful at it, you'll complete objectives such as "50 000 tonnes of merchant ships sunk by June 1st" or whatever it said in that one screenshot.

[Elder-Pirate]

Neal in your review you stated:"The cook has a fondness for bad violin. Of all the crew, he's the only Nazi aboard your boat. Be nice to him, he's making your food."

Yeah looks like he may be a nazi as shown here:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/oleman/Cooksanazi2.jpg



But your dear EX is not so inocent either. :arrgh!:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/oleman/Oneeyesrapsheet1.jpg

Maybe we have two German squealers eh? :hmmm:

[Onkel Neal]

Haha, good find. Yeah, I just wanted to work in some of the traits that were listed as part of the writing.

[THE_MASK]

Why would the devs bother with all the details of the sub interior when they know modders love to mod and they know how to do the interiors . The devs can spend time on bug fixing . A whole new set of bugs , remember .

[jlederer]

Thanks for the preview, Neal!

I especially appreciated your screenshots.

I liked the sonar guy leaning out to look - so maybe I can be commander in the control room and he actually turns around and leans-out to tell me about contacts, vs. i hear him talking but can't see him unless I walk (or teleport in SH3) over there and stand next to him all the time.

I also liked the guy who was stepping through the watertight door hatch (presumably this means the crews walks around the boat sometimes).

[Blackhawk1006]

Apart from the DRM, SH5 looks to be shaping up pretty good! I like the look of the different 'missions' there are.

[Safe-Keeper]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/oleman/Cooksanazi2.jpg
A Soup Nazi!

Excellent touch:rotfl2:!

I liked the sonar guy leaning out to look - so maybe I can be commander in the control room and he actually turns around and leans-out to tell me about contacts, vs. i hear him talking but can't see him unless I walk (or teleport in SH3) over there and stand next to him all the time.As long as they don't have a limited registry of lines to draw from, I'm fine. I remember Oblivion failing in that regard (which is ironic seeing that the game had hours upon hours of dialogue). "What's new with you?" grew annoying when you heard it for the 2000th time.

I also liked the guy who was stepping through the watertight door hatch (presumably this means the crews walks around the boat sometimes).In the announcement trailer you saw them run through the boat when the alarm was sounded.

[subvers4]

Thanks for the preview Neal, informative and fair I feel, without going overboard in either direction.
The graphics do look good.
The interface, I feel, could do with being more "u-boatish".
The important part for me is immersion, of which gameplay is a crucial component. The actual feeling of being there, and forgetting that you're in a game.
But the immersion factor is the most personal, and therefore the hardest part to describe until you actually get to play it yourself. Still I have to admit, it looks good so far, better than I expected, although my philosophy does tend towards the cynical pessimist in general ! :up:

[Platapus]

Neal, Thank you for taking the time to write this preview. It seemed well balanced. BZ

Time compression includes a feature to let you ignore friendly vessel alerts, so in theory, you won't drop out of TC unless an enemy shows up.

Can I get a hallelujah?

No more

Ship spotted!
Ship spotted!
Ship spotted!
Ship spotted!

Yes, I know, we are in our own harbour doofus

Ship spotted!
Ship spotted!
Ship spotted!

Yes I know, They are our own ships numb nuts

Ship spotted!
Ship spotted!
Ship spotted!
Ship spotted!

I think I will kill you now. :stare:

This how you get three men on watch on the bridge by the way. :arrgh!:

Now you can listen for enemy ships with the hydrophones, and when you hear a contact, click the notepad arrow and the sonar bearing line will be added.

Oh this is nice! At last some realism in sound plotting. :yeah: It is this function that will allow sonar plotting!!!!

Neal, to be honest, if I buy SH5 it will be mostly due to your work in publishing the videos and for keeping an honest attitude about this game.

Thank you.

[Sailor Steve]

I liked the sonar guy leaning out to look - so maybe I can be commander in the control room and he actually turns around and leans-out to tell me about contacts, vs. i hear him talking but can't see him unless I walk (or teleport in SH3) over there and stand next to him all the time.
You need to sail in a Type II. You can see him from the control room, and yes, he does turn around to tell you every contact.

Can I get a hallelujah?

No more

Ship spotted!
Ship spotted!
Ship spotted!
Ship spotted!

It doesn't slow down for that in SH4. Makes it waayy too easy to tell friend from foe when you're at sea.

[Platapus]

It would be nice if it could be turned off while in friendly harbours and then turned on when entering the war zone..

It is just one of those things that used to bother me a lot until Commander allowed starting out of port.

Personally exiting harbours gets real old after about the third time, especially if you are stuck at 4x TC

[Parkera]

I love leaving port in real time. I usually will do other things while the sub leaves harbour. I also move the IWO into the bunks as he is not needed in port and this stops most of the Ship Spotted rubbish!:)

[Sailor Steve]

It would be nice if it could be turned off while in friendly harbours and then turned on when entering the war zone..
:yep: Roger that.

It is just one of those things that used to bother me a lot until Commander allowed starting out of port.
I've never used that function, because...

Personally exiting harbours gets real old after about the third time, especially if you are stuck at 4x TC
I always leave and enter my home port at 1x. It takes me back to my "good old days".

[Platapus]

I always leave and enter my home port at 1x. It takes me back to my "good old days".


Then I think the bestest solution is to offer the customer the choice. :yeah:

[Sailor Steve]

Then I think the bestest solution is to offer the customer the choice. :yeah:
No, I think the bester solution is your first one - turn it off when in port.:rock:

[Steeltrap]

How do you know it was a single mission? Looks to me to be one of the "major goals" in the campaign, that you and other subs achieve over time.

You're right. It's not a single 'mission' (even though that's how Neal described it, and I'm not throwing rocks at him). It appears to be ONE of the 'objectives' for that part of the wider campaign. It appears to be a personal goal, not one 'aided by other subs'.

My point is this: just ONE of the goals of ONE part of the campaign has you being expected to obtain a tonnage achieved by only 84 commanders over the entire war (and they all pretty much achieved this between '39 and mid-'42).

In short, it seems you will continue to achieve tonnages that are, in the context of well documented history, at or above the top 5% of ALL commanders.

Yippee shoot.

Sure, nobody wants to play where you sink nothing (although people might be surprised to see how many commanders did exactly that, certainly on individual patrols). Even Peter Cremer, a commander with a good reputation in the service and respected by crews, sank around 28,000t. He didn't start patrolling until around '41, I think.

Well I suppose there's no requirement that it be 'realistic', and you can argue that such numbers are realistic if you're one fo the top 20 commanders, but it irks me all the same.

[Sailor Steve]

My point is this: just ONE of the goals of ONE part of the campaign has you being expected to obtain a tonnage achieved by only 84 commanders over the entire war (and they all pretty much achieved this between '39 and mid-'42)...

...but it irks me all the same.
That's got me worried too. Tonnage requirements? I've never heard of that in real life.

Had it in SH2 though.

[Steeltrap]

That's got me worried too. Tonnage requirements? I've never heard of that in real life.

Had it in SH2 though.

Yeah, next we'll have "acheivements" a la Steam.

Anyone got a 'vomit' smiley?

Jim? :D

[mookiemookie]

Yeah, next we'll have "acheivements" a la Steam.

Anyone got a 'vomit' smiley?

Jim? :D

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q257/QueenieRV/Avatars/VOMIT.gif

[John Channing]

That's got me worried too. Tonnage requirements? I've never heard of that in real life.

Had it in SH2 though.

As I recall SHIV had that in the vanilla version. The only way to complete some objectives was to sink an unspecified amount of tonnage.

Got modded out pretty quickly.

JCC

[Steeltrap]

That's got me worried too. Tonnage requirements? I've never heard of that in real life.

Had it in SH2 though.

If you return to harbour a few thousand short, there's always a tanker or merchant somewhere about......:D

[Onkel Neal]

You're right. It's not a single 'mission' (even though that's how Neal described it, and I'm not throwing rocks at him). It appears to be ONE of the 'objectives' for that part of the wider campaign. It appears to be a personal goal, not one 'aided by other subs'.

I described this as a "single mission"? Where? :06:

[laugi]

talking about the missions, actualy it look like to me that this is the first patrol, and the objectif as to be acomplish by june. So it will be more patrols to go until the first part of the campaign is finish(June or tonnages?). well, it is looking pretty good to me. as well i saw in the screen shoot that Neal did his first partol in 19 or 20 days.
Neal, can you tell us if the first part of the campaign will end in june or after the objectif is done.

[capthelm]

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1948/sh5screenie.jpg (http://img163.imageshack.us/i/sh5screenie.jpg/)

[Parkera]

:yeah::haha:

[Matador.es]

Can anybody tell me at what time that Screen Shot was taken. Not real time, but game time. I havent seen any time indicators at all so far at any video or SS. Kind of strange dont you think?

[Steeltrap]

I described this as a "single mission"? Where? :06:

My apologies. The exact caption to the shot is:

Mission orders for the first patrol as captain of the U-boat

My bad! Hence my qualifier about throwing rocks (well, that and the fact I've avoided the brig for 9 years....no need to spoil my record just yet :D)

The relationships between missions, patrols and the whole campaign is not specifically stated, but then it seems they should be pretty self-evident.

My other comments re tonnage goals remain the same for me, at least.

Cheers

[Onkel Neal]

Ah, ok, no problem. Seems my preview has caused quite a bit of confusion and consternation (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=162261) :/\\k:

[rcjonessnp175]

Well like all the previous sh's it will be amazing in about 6 months after the modders take care of it. Great preview but heres a quick question as i been out of loop, looking at these screen shots the outside ones it looks like thiers no dynamic shadows again, did ubi pull another fast one and take this feature out yet again??:rock:

[Elder-Pirate]

Here we go again with the rudder amidships. :damn: ( bottom right corner )

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1948/sh5screenie.jpg (http://img163.imageshack.us/i/sh5screenie.jpg/)

Guess they haven't had enough time to fix this either. :hmmm:

Modders.............HELP!

[Heretic]

I edited another one of Neal's screenshots (hope you don't mind:D) to remove the GUI elements. I think they make nice wallpapers.

uboat coming out of harbor: http://webpages.charter.net/mdpeyton/sh5%202010-02-21%2014-28-00-75.jpg

uboat at sea: http://webpages.charter.net/mdpeyton/sh5%202010-02-21%2015-27-16-73.jpg

[KL-alfman]

the graphics really look exquisite!
and very realistic too.

but in the second shot at the bow-wave I think the water is way too transparent or clear there, isn't it?
this transparency does not show where the saddle-tanks are .....

[TH0R]

I edited another one of Neal's screenshots (hope you don't mind:D) to remove the GUI elements. I think they make nice wallpapers.

uboat coming out of harbor: http://webpages.charter.net/mdpeyton/sh5%202010-02-21%2014-28-00-75.jpg

uboat at sea: http://webpages.charter.net/mdpeyton/sh5%202010-02-21%2015-27-16-73.jpg


Thanks for these! :)

[Webchessie]

Thanks for the balanced review. My vote is still out about this. Definitely will be waiting until the release for more information. And I think I need a new PC . . .

[609_Avatar]

I edited another one of Neal's screenshots (hope you don't mind:D) to remove the GUI elements. I think they make nice wallpapers.

uboat coming out of harbor: http://webpages.charter.net/mdpeyton/sh5%202010-02-21%2014-28-00-75.jpg

uboat at sea: http://webpages.charter.net/mdpeyton/sh5%202010-02-21%2015-27-16-73.jpg

Nicely done!

[Frederf]

Here we go again with the rudder amidships. :damn: ( bottom right corner )

Guess they haven't had enough time to fix this either. :hmmm:

Modders.............HELP!

Do you mean that it's bad that the command is given "double" like SH3/SH4 had a bad habit of doing or that they used the term "amidships" for "centered"?

[tater]

Haven't read the whole thread (did read the preview), but the searchlight flare in that image has a z-sorting problem (it's behind the light).

Funny that apparently no one in Germany was a Nazi.

It's odd that the same % of Germans claim they were NOT Nazis that in France claim they WERE in the Resistance ;)

Surprised the 3d Reich lasted an afternoon, much less 12 years ;)

[Elder-Pirate]

Do you mean that it's bad that the command is given "double" like SH3/SH4 had a bad habit of doing or that they used the term "amidships" for "centered"?


Yeah, being that its doubled it will be voiced twice just like SH3/SH4, although I keep hearing it said three times in a row in SH4. I do believe the term "Amidships" is correct as far as the rudder is concerned as the word does mean "in or near the middle of a ship". Now the word "Beam" is "The breadth of a ship at it's widest part".

Ah why don't they just say "Beam me up Scotty" and get it over with? :haha:

[Stormfly]

Haven't read the whole thread (did read the preview), but the searchlight flare in that image has a z-sorting problem (it's behind the light).

Funny that apparently no one in Germany was a Nazi.

It's odd that the same % of Germans claim they were NOT Nazis that in France claim they WERE in the Resistance ;)

Surprised the 3d Reich lasted an afternoon, much less 12 years ;)

...look, if humans have not enough valor to take the "right" decision (after knowing what is happening) between beeing a "nazi" or maybe get tortured to death in a german concentration camp, including family... why should they have enough valor to admit that they took this decision ?

...fear is one of the importants weapons of the evil. I dont know how long the medival inquisition burned innocent human beeings allive in the name of the church, but trust me... this was much longer than 12 years, because nobody come to liberate them.

[Rip]

Haven't read the whole thread (did read the preview), but the searchlight flare in that image has a z-sorting problem (it's behind the light).

Funny that apparently no one in Germany was a Nazi.

It's odd that the same % of Germans claim they were NOT Nazis that in France claim they WERE in the Resistance ;)

Surprised the 3d Reich lasted an afternoon, much less 12 years ;)


Oh BTW, I'm not a Nazi I just want to win the war!
:D

[ThePinkSubmarine]

Oh BTW, I'm not a Nazi I just want to win the war!
:D

What? You don't remember the quote from Stalingrad?

Gott Mitt Uns...it says so on your belt buckles!

In all seriousness - I think this was a move by UBI to expand the genre; because I'm sure many have the opinion that it's not correct to play a 'nazi' (even if Doenitz and the U-Boat Waffen didn't care for that). It's a reassurance that you're not playing as a Nazi!

It's the politically correct times that we live in. Heck -- one of my distant relatives had a troopship sunk from beneath him by a U-Boat (U-486) and I still love playing SH! Although I'm sure he wouldn't approve...

[Frederf]

Yeah, being that its doubled it will be voiced twice just like SH3/SH4, although I keep hearing it said three times in a row in SH4. I do believe the term "Amidships" is correct as far as the rudder is concerned as the word does mean "in or near the middle of a ship". Now the word "Beam" is "The breadth of a ship at it's widest part".

Ah why don't they just say "Beam me up Scotty" and get it over with? :haha:

Oh, the double voices are so annoying. Ye-yes-yes sir. And about 20 crew sing out in unison S-SHIP-P S-SPOTTED-D!!!

I looked it up and it turns out "rudder amidships" is correct. I thought maybe amidships meant "middle longitudinally" which would be silly since the rudder can never be there, it's in the back!

[lynx]

thank you very much by your great work:yeah:

[Kaleun_Endrass]

the searchlight flare in that image has a z-sorting problem (it's behind the light).
I would say it isn't heading towards the camera. It's heading the opposite direction. The z-order of the left searchlight is right, so I guess the right searchlight works fine too.

[Feuer Frei!]

Funny that apparently no one in Germany was a Nazi.
Hilarious! You'd be surprised at how many Germans weren't Nazis, and didn't follow the NSDAP ideologies......
my parents didn't! if there was some sort of research into this at all, rather then just the usual reading and believing then there might be some more educated and open-minded discussions and indeed view points out there....
surely i would not think on Subsim forums that that would be the place.....

[Safe-Keeper]

I'm no expert, but don't you see this the same thing on a smaller scale with gangs? The cops bust, say, 12 people for breaking into a warehouse, and when they are interrogated one by one it turns out only two or three (one of them being the gang leader) were actually in favour of the heist, and that the rest didn't dare speak up because the gang leader punished dissent, and because they had no idea of how many others were in favour.

It's easy to sit comfortably in a democracy and judge, but in a brutal dictatorship in the middle of a "total war", things are just a wee bit different. The gangs of thugs running amok breaking stuff in the early days, and the execution of dissenters like Sophie Scholl, must've had quite a chill effect:nope:.

Far as I know, only 10% of Germans were members of the Nazi party.

[Feuer Frei!]

I'm no expert, but don't you see this the same thing on a smaller scale with gangs? The cops bust, say, 12 people for breaking into a warehouse, and when they are interrogated one by one it turns out only two or three (one of them being the gang leader) were actually in favour of the heist, and that the rest didn't dare speak up because the gang leader punished dissent, and because they had no idea of how many others were in favour.

It's easy to sit comfortably in a democracy and judge, but in a brutal dictatorship in the middle of a "total war", things are just a wee bit different. The gangs of thugs running amok breaking stuff in the early days, and the execution of dissenters like Sophie Scholl, must've had quite a chill effect:nope:.

Far as I know, only 10% of Germans were members of the Nazi party.

Refreshing to see :up:
far too many of us do this, sit back and judge, i was going to elaborate but won't, for fear of hijacking this thread and sending it down the political incorrectness road.

[SeaWolf U-57]

There are none so blind as those who don't want to see the truth but still openly post incorrect statements on hearsay.
"10% of Germans believed in the Nazi way of thinking" well yes maybe this is right I'm sure it was a small proportion of the total population and really not the quantity needed to brand the whole Country Nazi. :hmmm:


So now back on subject .......

Its all well and good going on and on about the internet thing But please take a step back and take a good long look at the videos that Neal has placed Here on SubSim.
Why you say well SH4 really did not appeal to every one because of the game play involved it had better graphics granted But it never produced that spark that SH3 has still got to this day.
The most important thing about the Silent Hunter series of games is THE ENJOYMENT OF PLAYING THEM.
Great "Eye Candy" is good for the short term but it will soon wears off so if the game play itself is not up to par the game will flop.

I myself will wait until I have seen something that proves to me this version is worth buying and to be quite frank I have not seen anything as of yet to make me want to so for me the internet thing is just one more nail in the coffin as far as SH5 is concerned. :nope:

[Onkel Neal]

On topic, note: The developers wanted to assure me, that although the interface is less "subsim-like" and the game is designed to be more approachable to new players with options like ship health bars and detection ranges, the simulation aspects have not been watered down.

[Michal788]

On topic, note: The developers wanted to assure me, that although the interface is less "subsim-like" and the game is designed to be more approachable to new players with options like ship health bars and detection ranges, the simulation aspects have not been watered down.

The health bars and the detection ranges can be set off, but what is the answer about the new interface? :x

[AVGWarhawk]

The health bars and the detection ranges can be set off, but what is the answer about the new interface? :x


Interface=mod. :up:

[Chad]

Interface=mod. :up:

Probably first mod I'll download :D

[Parkera]

Probably 1st mod most people will d/l:)

[Michal788]

Me too.
Sorry Ubisoft but the interface is really a failure.

[Heretic]

First thing I'll look for will be a way to turn off the highlighting of the crew and other objects. That's how these things get started. Changing things that annoy you.

[jimimadrid]

Neal, do you know if there will be some tools from ubisoft avaiable to mod the interface as easy as possible?
Or have we again to put the fingers in the damned menu1024...ini?

[birdy]

great preview!:yeah:
cant wait to play it! (with some mods ofcourse;))

[longam]

Neal, do you know if there will be some tools from ubisoft avaiable to mod the interface as easy as possible?
Or have we again to put the fingers in the damned menu1024...ini?

Check the SH5 mod section

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=162148

[Takeda Shingen]

Neal, you do a fantastic job with this kind of thing; with the youtube link and whatnot. It reminds me of why I came here in the first place. Thank you, on behalf of the community.

[DedEye]

Thanks for the insight Neal; really appreciate it :)

[Ducimus]

Hilarious! You'd be surprised at how many Germans weren't Nazis, and didn't follow the NSDAP ideologies......


There's this book (http://www.subsim.com/books/book_steel_boat2.htm), that is the memoir of Hans Goebeler, who was there, and' offered his own explanation. I'll have to find my copy of it, but to paraphrase, the situation at the time was that Germany was reeling from economic woes, food and job shortages, and other such things which drags a nation down.

Then along comes this fella who had ideas on how to fix the economy, create jobs, put food on plates, and bring back a sense of national pride. The situation was that the German people would have followed any man who promised to deliver such things , (and here's the part i remember from Hans own words).... "and his name just happened to be Adolf Hitler". Hans offered a decent explanation, and didn't shirk from the fact that many, if not most, people supported it. The words that stuck in my mind the most, was, "I am no chameleon!". As i recall, in his memior, He acknowledged it, and while explaining it, didn't shirk from it with some lame excuse.

[Feuer Frei!]

There's this book (http://www.subsim.com/books/book_steel_boat2.htm), that is the memoir of Hans Goebeler, who was there, and' offered his own explanation. I'll have to find my copy of it, but to paraphrase, the situation at the time was that Germany was reeling from economic woes, food and job shortages, and other such things which drags a nation down.

Then along comes this fella who had ideas on how to fix the economy, create jobs, put food on plates, and bring back a sense of national pride. The situation was that the German people would have followed any man who promised to deliver such things , (and here's the part i remember from Hans own words).... "and his name just happened to be Adolf Hitler". Hans offered a decent explanation, and didn't shirk from the fact that many, if not most, people supported it. The words that stuck in my mind the most, was, "I am no chameleon!". As i recall, in his memior, He acknowledged it, and while explaining it, didn't shirk from it with some lame excuse.

Absolutely agree with all of that, indeed, and i may get fried for this but it's a fact of life/history that Hitler actually did some great things (moreso at the beginning obviously), he was the creator of Autobahns, the creator of Volkswagen (the people's car) and fixed the unemployment woes.....
the "good" people soon enough realised down the track that this man had other ideas as well.....and dropped support pretty quickly, however a lot of those people paid for it with their lives.....
the issue i have with all of that is that historians (some) and the general populous, either back then and also today have this narrow-minded and unintelligent notion that either what they've read and been fed to by the allies must all be true, and that most germans knew what was going on.....and still followed Hitler willingly....
what a croc of #$@&*!
The last comment about most knowing what was going on is quiet true, due to air play (radio, propaganda etc etc), however does that mean that most Germans were of bad ill and wanted to kill every other race in the world? No.
Thats what i have an issue with, and the old slogan goes: Out of ignorance breeds racism" is certainly true......
and i copped it at school when i emigrated from Germany to Australia....big time.....
unfortunately that's the way it is, human nature is to generalise, to pigeon hole and lump a whole race into the arguement, rather then the evil people that actually committed these heinous crimes....
no, i don't support anything Hitler did, nor did my parents (they told me stories of rather interesting content about a lot of their friends and what it was actually like to be even seen or heard to even critizise the NSDAP) for fear of retribution to either themselves or their families, or both.
I'm not having a go at you, far from it, just thought i would share thoughts, and a real-life example.....no harm done :03:
Would have been interesting to see Hitler in another country, coming up in the ranks, speaking to the masses etc etc......would that country have turned out to be a Fascist state? Probably....especially when the economy was kaput and the country needed a person to fix it......

Edit: i know this does not belong in this thread, i apologise in advance....

[Frederf]

To be fair to a change in UI... the SH3/SH4 UI wasn't all that good. The "command bar" is an ancient and rather uninspired concept. SH3/4 always felt like I was playing the 2D interface and the 3D world was merely there for aesthetic benefit with few exception.

[Michal788]

I could be modern and autentic, but instead of that it is modern and windows 7 look.

[Galanti]

On topic, note: The developers wanted to assure me, that although the interface is less "subsim-like" and the game is designed to be more approachable to new players with options like ship health bars and detection ranges, the simulation aspects have not been watered down.

This is kind of a stunning admission on their part. I can understand the health bars and detection ranges thing (with barely suppressed bile) but why in the name of Gilgamesh is the interface designed to be less "subsim-like"? Why would a period-looking UI put off new players?

[dannygjk]

ok, at this point i will not further comment on DRM, but!

I hope to God that I can check/uncheck all aspects which are immersion spoilers.

dannygjk

[tater]

There's this book (http://www.subsim.com/books/book_steel_boat2.htm), that is the memoir of Hans Goebeler, who was there, and' offered his own explanation. I'll have to find my copy of it, but to paraphrase, the situation at the time was that Germany was reeling from economic woes, food and job shortages, and other such things which drags a nation down.

Then along comes this fella who had ideas on how to fix the economy, create jobs, put food on plates, and bring back a sense of national pride. The situation was that the German people would have followed any man who promised to deliver such things , (and here's the part i remember from Hans own words).... "and his name just happened to be Adolf Hitler". Hans offered a decent explanation, and didn't shirk from the fact that many, if not most, people supported it. The words that stuck in my mind the most, was, "I am no chameleon!". As i recall, in his memior, He acknowledged it, and while explaining it, didn't shirk from it with some lame excuse.

Spot on. I used to lunch with a retired history prof who was a junior officer on the Eastern front (a Russian language student at university when conscripted, he interrogated prisoners). He said the "worker's party" (nazis) were very popular, and were supported by the vast majority as long as things went well in the war.

Like I said, claims to NOT be supportive are analogous to people claiming to have resisted the Germans in France—if they were true, then the resistance were the vast majority, lol. Don't think so.

In RL, during most of the war there were less than 40,000 people in the French resistance. In 1944 (d-day_ it went up to around 100k. German resistance was small groups of individuals. Not a significant number (and apparently virtually disappear in 1940-42 when they were winning the war—anyone in Germany who was EVER happy with the war was a supporter.

[Kretschmer the IV]

After the war was lost, suddenly no one was a nazi. :O:

[Nordmann]

This is kind of a stunning admission on their part. I can understand the health bars and detection ranges thing (with barely suppressed bile) but why in the name of Gilgamesh is the interface designed to be less "subsim-like"? Why would a period-looking UI put off new players?

I doubt they did it to appeal to new players, it was simply quicker and easier to slap together than the themed UI of old.

After the war was lost, suddenly no one was a nazi. :O:

Are you surprised? With vindictive and ignorant allied troops running around shooting anything and everything they considered to be a "Nazi", I would have protested long and loud that I was nothing to do with the party or it's policies.

[Feuer Frei!]

This is kind of a stunning admission on their part. I can understand the health bars and detection ranges thing (with barely suppressed bile) but why in the name of Gilgamesh is the interface designed to be less "subsim-like"? Why would a period-looking UI put off new players?

It's called business...
broaden the market capture....
Makes sense to me, rather then just targeting one market....

[Catfish]

Hello Neal,

thanks for the preview - where have i been only seeing this now ? :hmmm:

I think it is a reasonable and "try-to-remain-calm" review, but even if the end is a bit on the negative side (again: reasonable) the fascination of some aspects of the game shimmers through. I like the idea of one scripted tutorial mission, to learn the ropes and get a feel for the sim before you start with the real thing - the campaign. I would also like some training missions ... :yep:
Modding seems to be made easier for the subsim community, but only for those familiar with Python (?)

Remembering a completely different sim, B-17 I and II "The mighty eighth" i was always longing for the tight atmosphere of this bomber crew being together in this cramped higly dangerous situation, some day made possible in a sub simulation - now it seems it has been done - great ! Perhaps it would also have been a good idea to make it possible to switch to being another crew member, and do their job - like in Avatar lol - but then YOU are the skipper, no need for doing all of it alone - now where was that snack ?

What i do not like is clear, so no need to again beat the dead horse. It is only that my tin hat paranoia tells me this has nothing to do with anti-piracy, but to introduce pay-per-play via internet sooner or later. Freedom dies slowly, in small steps.

Thanks very much for the preview, and this site :rock:
Catfish

[Safe-Keeper]

After the war was lost, suddenly no one was a nazi. :O:And?

[Catfish]

Hello,

after the war an american soldier sees a peasant, drawing something off the ground, so he asks him what he's doing.
The peasant answers, smiling: "De-nazification."
The soldier: What ?!
And the peasant: "It is indeed quite easy, i draw out the small turnips, so the big ones can grow fatter."

Which is b.t.w. why the german students of 1968 revolted against politics, and institutions, and were deliberately anti-american :O:

Sorry for OT, but you know there were no Nazis aboard U-boats :88)

edit: to be exact the foreign (non-german, here especially US) imagination, of what a "Nazi" was or should be, differed a bit from the real thing - all people who controlled concentration camps directly, were most probably "Nazis", but not all "Nazis" knew of concentration camps. Most were however convinced that it was right what Hitler did - as far as they knew about it.
This "wave" or enthusiasm which was building up in the 1930ies, was cleverly pocketed by Hitler, making it look as if he was responsible for all positive effects. This special looking-away from your then jewish neighbours, when they left the town, or were arrested, can still be observed all over the world today. It is unfortunately human to close your eyes towards bad things, even if you feel a bit uneasy. Not to justify anything, but an explanation.

Greetings,
Catfish

[the_belgian]

thanks for the review(starting to concider a new PC...)
but,
i learned at least two things looking at the screenshots;

-in cameramode you can see yourself on the deck.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s99/yveswouters/redeye79.jpg

-at night red goggles are used by those who need it

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s99/yveswouters/redeye78.jpg

[ReFaN]

thanks for the review(starting to concider a new PC...)
but,
i learned at least two things looking at the screenshots;

-in cameramode you can see yourself on the deck.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s99/yveswouters/redeye79.jpg

-at night red goggles are used by those who need it

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s99/yveswouters/redeye78.jpg

last one isnt goggles, the guy lost an eye in training so he is using a eye patch :rock:

[the_belgian]

last one isnt goggles, the guy lost an eye in training so he is using a eye patch :rock:

that's shame,both of his eye and the option that won't be in...

[Noren]

Thats a nice looking captain! I hope he wont be strafed!

edit: to be exact the foreign (non-german, here especially US) imagination, of what a "Nazi" was or should be, differed a bit from the real thing - all people who controlled concentration camps directly, were most probably "Nazis", but not all "Nazis" knew of concentration camps. Most were however convinced that it was right what Hitler did - as far as they knew about it.
This "wave" or enthusiasm which was building up in the 1930ies, was cleverly pocketed by Hitler, making it look as if he was responsible for all positive effects. This special looking-away from your then jewish neighbours, when they left the town, or were arrested, can still be observed all over the world today. It is unfortunately human to close your eyes towards bad things, even if you feel a bit uneasy. Not to justify anything, but an explanation.
Comment:No, not all who run concentration camps were officiall nazists. I remember one particular commander who shot himself just prior to the closing of the war....on his desk lay the suicidenote stating that I never
truly belived in the political dingo but we was powerless to disagree and was forced to be a passive member. What scares me is that most germans were normal everyday people and Hitler duped most of them, the ones who had second opinions dared to to speak out. As such: it could happen again.

It takes great courage to stand out in a seemly brainwashed crowd. Some did, but they never managed to kill the dictator! Enough history for now.

[U-Bones]

Human history is written daily. But sadly, seldom read.

Thanks for the preview, Neal.

[Onkel Neal]

Hey, Bones, good to see you around.