Thermal Layers

[Herr Minger]

Does anybody know if thermal layers will be simulated in SH5. Will the Artic Campaign be included as its here that the thermal layer will be useful.

[TH0R]

Does anybody know if thermal layers will be simulated in SH5. Will the Artic Campaign be included as its here that the thermal layer will be useful.

One of the videos shows 'passing thermal layer' reported by the crew.

[Subnuts]

One of the videos shows 'passing thermal layer' reported by the crew.

I'm not sure if U-boats were even equipped with bathythermographs, so I don't know how he's managing to give that report. Anybody want to correct me if I'm wrong?

[TH0R]

I'm not sure if U-boats were even equipped with bathythermographs, so I don't know how he's managing to give that report. Anybody want to correct me if I'm wrong?

Yes, this is debatable if they had bathythermographs.

Since the voice used to report thermal layer is exactly the same like in SH4, it is logical to assume they still have some features 'left over' from previous title in the beta/preview version. What we will have in the final version is yet to be seen.

[Seeadler]

I'm not sure if U-boats were even equipped with bathythermographs, so I don't know how he's managing to give that report. Anybody want to correct me if I'm wrong?
You're correct, the German U-boats had no bathythermographs. They knew that these layers existed, but could not determine whether there is a termal layer in a given depth or if the boat is below or above a thermal layer.

[Noren]

Was it of practical importance back then?

[Mud]

Was it of practical importance back then?

A sonar ping bounches off from a thermal layer, so I may say yes it was of practical importance.

Mud

[Letum]

More often I imagine a sonar ping would just refract a ping below the IOR and give a false reading of the sub's location.

[Jimbuna]

I believe the U-boats only tested the salinity of the water from samples which was time consuming and nowhere near as prompt as having a bathythermograph.

[SteamWake]

One of the videos shows 'passing thermal layer' reported by the crew.

Yea while they were at periscope depth :doh:

[SteamWake]

I believe the U-boats only tested the salinity of the water from samples which was time consuming and nowhere near as prompt as having a bathythermograph.

I often wondered if a 'good' soundman (Level 4 :haha: ) might be able to 'hear' the sound shifts and volume and make a guess at having passed a thermal layer.:06:

[Letum]

I often wondered if a 'good' soundman (Level 4 :haha: ) might be able to 'hear' the sound shifts and volume and make a guess at having passed a thermal layer.:06:

That would be tough.
It's not like you go down a thermal layer and everything always
becomes quieter.
A thermal layer will produce depths at which other ships are louder too.

[Jimbuna]

I often wondered if a 'good' soundman (Level 4 :haha: ) might be able to 'hear' the sound shifts and volume and make a guess at having passed a thermal layer.:06:

I'm confident the apparatus wasn't that good or accurate then....even with superman at the controls :DL

[SteamWake]

I'm confident the apparatus wasn't that good or accurate then....even with superman at the controls :DL

I heard that with chef's rats ear soup Level 4 adds an uber buff to your listen and spot skillz +4 ! ;)

[Nisgeis]

I often wondered if a 'good' soundman (Level 4 :haha: ) might be able to 'hear' the sound shifts and volume and make a guess at having passed a thermal layer.:06:

I wondered the same thing. It's logical. Thanks for posting that and getting an answer.

[Jimbuna]

I heard that with chef's rats ear soup Level 4 adds an uber buff to your listen and spot skillz +4 ! ;)

LMAO :rotfl2:

[Sailor Steve]

More often I imagine a sonar ping would just refract a ping below the IOR and give a false reading of the sub's location.
:yep: Like putting a straw in a glass of water.

[Platapus]

I heard that with chef's rats ear soup Level 4 adds an uber buff to your listen and spot skillz +4 ! ;)

I think Ubi is going to nerf that in one of the patches. :doh:

[TarJak]

One of the factors that drove the lack of German advance in this area was the fact that in the Atlantic where most of their submarine ops took place, the thermal layers were commonly deeper than the subs were capable of diving anyway.

That's not to say that is true in all locations or conditions, just the most common conditions in the Atlantic.

[onelifecrisis]

I think Ubi is going to nerf that in one of the patches. :doh:

omgznooooo!!!!

[jwilliams]

I heard that with chef's rats ear soup Level 4 adds an uber buff to your listen and spot skillz +4 ! ;)

Do we get epix loot from the convoy boss??

Headphones of the Bat
+6 to listening
+4 to distance
equip = Detection of thermal layers

:haha:

[walsh2509]

No knowledge of this , but even without knowing it or having the equipment to detect them , thermal layer were still there so any advantage passing down through one would still be valid.

[Heretic]

If u-boats could not detect thermal layers and the only indication to the player is the crewman's announcement a la SH4, it would be a simple matter to replace that wav file with a blank.

[SteamWake]

If u-boats could not detect thermal layers and the only indication to the player is the crewman's announcement a la SH4, it would be a simple matter to replace that wav file with a blank.

and this is exactly the type of things that modders do bless them :salute:

[Ducimus]

You're correct, the German U-boats had no bathythermographs. They knew that these layers existed, but could not determine whether there is a termal layer in a given depth or if the boat is below or above a thermal layer.

One of the factors that drove the lack of German advance in this area was the fact that in the Atlantic where most of their submarine ops took place, the thermal layers were commonly deeper than the subs were capable of diving anyway.

That's not to say that is true in all locations or conditions, just the most common conditions in the Atlantic.

QFT

[Steeltrap]

I seem to recall Erich Topp commenting on this in one of the videos around SH3's launch. I'm pretty sure he said they were aware of them, of course, and that they had no practical means of detecting them. He also said they would dive to a depth where, were any present, they were likely to have passed through them.

So they might be present, thus their effects should be modelled (including the modelling of their likelihood and strength), but you'd have no awareness of them.

[Onkel Neal]

You're correct, the German U-boats had no bathythermographs. They knew that these layers existed, but could not determine whether there is a termal layer in a given depth or if the boat is below or above a thermal layer.


Agreed, which is why the first thing I will do with my copy of SH5 is yank that speech file :/\\x:

[JScones]

I seem to recall Erich Topp commenting on this in one of the videos around SH3's launch. I'm pretty sure he said they were aware of them, of course, and that they had no practical means of detecting them. He also said they would dive to a depth where, were any present, they were likely to have passed through them.

So they might be present, thus their effects should be modelled (including the modelling of their likelihood and strength), but you'd have no awareness of them.
:yep: I concur.

[Letum]

I have been looking up the effects of thermal layers.
Interesting stuff.

They do cause ping echo. The sharper the gradient; the more the echo.
That means the sonar listener needs to listen for two return pings. One
from the thermal gradient and one from the uboat. That's a problem if
the uboat is at the same depth as the gradient, but not a problem if
the uboat is below the gradient.

They will refract pings too, but that won't be a big issue.

They might reflect a little of the uboat's noise, but not very much.
A uboat sitting just above the gradient will make slightly more noise as
some of the noise will bounce back up from the gradient to the DDs.

[Herr Minger]

The reason I asked this question is that I'm reading 'Klebers Convoy' at the moment and Kleber continuously dives deep to get under the thermal layers that, according to the book, are prevalent in the colder waters of the Arctic. By the time the escorts get to him after picking him up on radar, they can't ping him. This is whilst he is shadowing a convoy in poor weather and in the dark. I am aware that this book is fiction but I would have thought the author has done his research. There is one problem though, I think that East of Bear Island and near the Skolpen Banks, the water isn't very deep although if its near 200 meters then that would be deep enough.