Interior VII uboat walkthru posted by Neal 19/02/2010

[THE_MASK]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HscHJooBflc&hd=1
I noticed the cook wouldnt look you in the eye LOL .
All Neals SH5 videos are stickied at the top of this forum .

[pythos]

Wow. That is actually quite impressive.

One thing to get rid of though is the elecric motor sound, that roar even at flank is just not right. The whine is ok, but the other sounds is :down:.

[Weather-guesser]

That guy standing by the sonarman...They have have to fix the expression on his face before I smack him! :03:

[FIREWALL]

I also saw a few that need the back of me... ahem I mean the Kplt's hand. :stare::yep:

:haha::rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

[jazman]

Always the guy with the eye patch!

Did it look like there were 50+ men on the boat?

Here's my count:

1: You
3: Fwd Torpedo Room
3: crew quarters
1: soundman
1: radioman
7: control room
5: crew quarters
1: galley
3: engine room
4: aft rorp/elec engine room

4 on bridge?

33 Total!

About 20 men missing. Maybe they're in the head.

[msalama]

In the beginning the Chief (I take it) said "shut down diesel engines" or something to that effect. Do we finally have independent port / stbd powerplant control and an option to run on electrics while surfaced?

[Highbury]

Looks pretty good, thanks Neal! and thanks for posting it here sober :up:

There are obvious issues for the purists and rivet counters but it's alot better then what we got out of the box in SH3 and SH4, visually at least.

I still want that highlight glow removed when you mouse over something/someone clickable. That bugs the hell out of me. Looks to me like the cursor changes anyways so it is unnecessary, and besides with only one U-Boat type how long will it take to know all the clicky things. If you can't turn it off in options then hopefully it is moddable. For me the glow is damn near the SHV eqivalent of "the red triangle" :o

[IanC]

Did it look like there were 50+ men on the boat?
Here's my count:
<snip>
33 Total!

About 20 men missing. Maybe they're in the head.

Actually I'm happy with 33! I was half expecting to see only the officers and chief petty officers.
Also sources show that the Type VII had a crew between 42-46 men. It's the type IX that was more around 50.

[walsh2509]

I went onto Uboataces.com and for the 4 class of uboats in SH5 in the details/Specs of each it list the crews as 44 for each.

I counted 26 , if the boat was on the surface 5/6 on watch 31/32 still at least 12 bodies missing.

It no wonder I thought the boat looked very empty compared to what I seen in Das Boot the other week when it was on.

I hope this is because it was the beta but I doubt it , I hope Im wrong. We need the Full crew to give that packed claustrophobic feeling.

If what was in the video is the full crew, then for me the game has lost half of its appeal before its even been loaded onto my drive.


Specs near bottom of page
http://www.uboataces.com/uboat-type-vii.shtml

[flakmonkey]

Good stuff, i really wish i had some character animation skills to add crew to my interiors as thay make so much difference.

[stabiz]

The guy at 1.15 looks like Kimi Raikkonen! Thats what I call an easter egg.

Nice looking u-boat.

[LukeFF]

Please don't tell me that there will be a radar scope in the radio room, regardless of whether or not there is a radar unit installed.

[LukeFF]

I went onto Uboataces.com and for the 4 class of uboats in SH5 in the details/Specs of each it list the crews as 44 for each.

I counted 26 , if the boat was on the surface 5/6 on watch 31/32 still at least 12 bodies missing.

It no wonder I thought the boat looked very empty compared to what I seen in Das Boot the other week when it was on.

I hope this is because it was the beta but I doubt it , I hope Im wrong. We need the Full crew to give that packed claustrophobic feeling.

Historical type VII rosters show the following numbers:


U-70: 45
U-73: 50
U-76: 44
U-94: 45
U-203: 49
U-570: 54

[Nisgeis]

That does look pretty darned good. Much better than way back when, when you had a 'ghost boat'. I hope the crew will be more vocal in the final version, they're a bit spooky quiet. Good spot about the radar, LukeFF. That's why it pays to be really unobservant like me, that way I don't spot mistakes and I'm in blissful ignorance. I did though click on the SH4 radar and wonder why it wasn't working :haha:.

[derblaueClaus]

Problem with more crewmen could be the perfomance so I think around 30 people on the boat is fine with me. The silence is something I dont like at all, hope they change it in the final version otherwise it might be like a sailing in a G-Boat (Ghost-Boat). :P

[Florent]

I counted 27, no problem for me if the 42-45 men are not there. Much more immersive than before. Wait 5-10 years to have the full crew.

[Frederf]

The submarine was at periscope depth so any crew on deck can hold their breath very well. I would hope that the devs researched how many crew they should have, how many of each rank, what posts there are, and sit down and model every single one separately. If Fritz gets strafed on deck by a Hurricane then he should be gone and someone take his post if he was mission critical (XO, Sonar, etc).

In the beginning the Chief (I take it) said "shut down diesel engines" or something to that effect. Do we finally have independent port / stbd powerplant control and an option to run on electrics while surfaced? Probably not, it looks like it's just the sound file played during a dive when switching from diesels to electrics. I bet we're not even able to run electrics on the surface!

---

Anyone notice that at (-:--) the () dialog shows "Secure from battle stations 1h19m"? Does that mean it takes 1h9m4s to secure from battle stations? Has the crew been at battle stations for 1h9m4s? What does this time mean?

What is lvl1? Does the crew achieve lvl2 actions? How do you improve lvls? Morale, drilling, patrols?

---

1:38... why does the hatch closing sound like a wooden outhouse door and not a big steel clang hatch?!

---

Good to see the planesmen are using the hydraulics buttons and not holding the manual wheels like they are driving a big Cadillac!:yeah::har:

[TH0R]

Probably not, it looks like it's just the sound file played during a dive when switching from diesels to electrics. I bet we're not even able to run electrics on the surface!

In the interview Devs said we will have the option of running electric motors on surface and each engine independently. Can you tell us Neal if this is the case with preview version? :)

[piri_reis]

In the interview Devs said we will have the option of running electric motors on surface and each engine independently. Can you tell us Neal if this is the case with preview version? :)

No they didn't say that independent engine running would be possible, I'm not sure about the electric motors on surface, I don't remember anything like that either.

[derblaueClaus]

Dev Q&A from 28.10 says about the control of starboard\port engines :

Is it possible to develop the feature to control the Port and Starboard engines of the U-Boat independently?

We’re considering this feature. It should go much deeper than just individual control by allowing the player to use the electric motors while on the surface – for faster response to commands.
Which I think means : "No". ;)

Couldn't find anything about the "electric engines on surface" issue but I also remember that I read something about it.:hmmm:

[coronas]

In normal conditions, 1/3 crew (10 or 12 men) was off-duty (sleeping, free time activities).
I think they are after courtain bunks and we won't see them.
:salute:

[urfisch]

thanks neal.

counted 28 men, so far. i noticed 2 things:

- big lack of detail in the quarters, except for CR
- too much space, the inner width is not right

hope the crew is not mute in the release version! and i hope for the mod tools, to add crew members and change the models.

:rock:

[Gunnodayak]

The submarine was at periscope depth so any crew on deck can hold their breath very well. I would hope that the devs researched how many crew they should have, how many of each rank, what posts there are, and sit down and model every single one separately. If Fritz gets strafed on deck by a Hurricane then he should be gone and someone take his post if he was mission critical (XO, Sonar, etc).

Probably not, it looks like it's just the sound file played during a dive when switching from diesels to electrics. I bet we're not even able to run electrics on the surface!

---

Anyone notice that at (-:--) the () dialog shows "Secure from battle stations 1h19m"? Does that mean it takes 1h9m4s to secure from battle stations? Has the crew been at battle stations for 1h9m4s? What does this time mean?

What is lvl1? Does the crew achieve lvl2 actions? How do you improve lvls? Morale, drilling, patrols?

---

1:38... why does the hatch closing sound like a wooden outhouse door and not a big steel clang hatch?!

---

Good to see the planesmen are using the hydraulics buttons and not holding the manual wheels like they are driving a big Cadillac!:yeah::har:

I won't say again that this footage shows a pathetic game, I will please the ones who doesn't like to see this kind of statement, even if I might think so about the game. I will let the enlighten tsunami of positivity to overcome this thread ...

[TH0R]

Dev Q&A from 28.10 says about the control of starboard\port engines :


Which I think means : "No". ;)

Couldn't find anything about the "electric engines on surface" issue but I also remember that I read something about it.:hmmm:

My hunch is that they will implement this with one of the special abilities of the crew - most likely: 'faster turn' by Chief Engineer...

[Michal788]

I want to see more hanging fruit and meat.
And i miss this.http://www.fotobank.ru/img/FC02-8469.jpg?size=l

[vickers03]

yea this would make the game much more authentic,
otherwise PREVIEW is looking very good, thanks mr. stevens!

[ParaB]

I think the interior looks very well done. Really. BUT it's FAR to empty. UBoats were infamous for supplies'n stuff getting stacked everywhere, boxes, tins, saussages, loaves of bread, stuffed into every corner and hanging from every ceiling. Hey, we had those saussages in SHIII!


:hmmm:

[oscar19681]

I still dont get why understand why they forgot to model a proper wardroom. Its simply not there. I mean they went to see the real u-boat at laboe right? Then why do they make such crucial mistakes.

[oscar19681]

* What i dont understand is where are the bunks in the forward torpedo room . I understand they were collapsable to make room for torpedo,s but the room is just to quit for me. I mean compare it with das boot

* they could at least have modeled the bunks in the torpedo room or other sleeping quarters in such a way that some of the missong crew where sleeping there with curtains closed so you would not have to see them modeled

* The crew are mute (i hope its a preview thing) and the overal silance in the boat just doesnt sound right ant its not even in silent running in the beginning . What up with that? Some live actually would be apreciated

* I,m not sure what i must think about the missing crew. I mean 26 men just isent enough and at leasts give us the option for full crew if its a performance thing.

[Q3ark]

I don't understand why so many people are upset by the fact that the wardroom tables and chairs are not folded out. I understand that they where folded away when not in us. You are there to sink ships not sit and drink tea :arrgh!:

[oscar19681]

I don't understand why so many people are upset by the fact that the wardroom tables and chairs are not folded out. I understand that they where folded away when not in us. You are there to sink ships not sit and drink tea :arrgh!:

Its no game stopper. But they should have moddeled it right because they clame the intereur to be accurely modeled to the real thing. Compare this photo of the wardroom to the ingame footage. I,m not there to drink tea but i want what i was promissed a interuet accuratly modeled.

http://www.u-995.com/images/galerie/offizierraum/offizierraum01.jpg

[Q3ark]

Yeah i guess i'm not passionate about U boats like some of you chaps are. Now if they where doing a Royal Navy T class boat I would be just the same as you are :D

[Brag]

Certainly a great step forward. The exact number of crew shown is not important.

Thanks, Neal. You should be the marketing director for those stupid Ubi suits. :up:

[Platapus]

Neal, thanks for the video. I am sure you are aware how important these things are to us and I appreciate you take the time to make them.

One serious question: Did you have any problems going through any of the hatches? Meaning that did you have to take special care to line "yourself" up with the hatch?

In some first person shooters, it is possible for your character to become trapped or blocked if they try to go around an object or through a small door.

Did you experience any of this in SH5? Or when you got close to a hatch did the game sorta "auto align" your character to make passing through the hatches smooth and quick?

[COWBOY10]

Thanks for another great Vid Neal. Really wonderful to see Sh5 in action. I know some are worried and that every detail isnt there, But think about this guys, Stock SH3 was ok but not fantastic, and there was also missing stuff in the sim, after a few years of hard work from our very talented Mods, that we are so lucky to have as part of our community, SH3 is stunning.

NOW Sh5 gives us a Hughly better starting block. They say it is very easly moddable, of course we wont find that out till it sails, BUT if it is, Just dream about what we will end up with. When our Talented Modders get hold of this, Give them a year or so, and I can forsee a stunning peice of work coming our way. Remember The release date is just the start, The real Sim will turn up in a year or two, once the modders have done their magic.

[LiveGoat]

Very interesting. Is it me or when he closes the hatch there is a flash of something (like a door closing animation of the hands, perhaps)? I wonder if there were more first person animations that got axed due to time, hardware spec projections, etc...

Control room seems a little dark compared to the other rooms but that's probably just me. All in all it looks nice.

Now about that DRM...

[tater]

I'm still not caring much about interiors. Personal opinion, YMMV. Doesn't do much for me. One, the most critical interior landscape in a little ww2 sub was men. If there are not 44 (whatever it was) guys crammed in there, it won't look as crowded as it should.

Personally, as I said, I don't care about the interiors that much since there isn't anything to DO with the interiors. If I did care, I'd want them to be accurate, and as far as immersion, crowded. That's the problem with the AI crew, they are only as immersive as they are believable. As soon as they look animatronic or repeat themselves, the cease to be immersive, IMO. UNtil such characters are far more interactive/realistic, they don't do much for me. The plus side is that as captain you are somewhat isolated from the men by rankk, and they'd defer to you and have a minimum level of respect that means less small talk (making realistic crew a little easier to model in terms of how interactive they are).

[Hartmann]

Please don't tell me that there will be a radar scope in the radio room, regardless of whether or not there is a radar unit installed.

well it´s not a problem , if the game engine can support it, a 1944-45 campaign could be done

[Tarnsman]

Danke Neil!
A great step forward for the franchise, we can now go from one end of the boat to the other, see crewmen and watch evolutions as the boat is underway! Ive been dreaming of this since 688i so Im stoked.

A couple of things concern me: Not enough crew in the torpedo rooms, I can live with the other compartments being lightly populated but it takes more than a couple of guys to load a eel. If it can be uped to six better eight, even if all they do is mirror the movements of the two loaders now it would be much better. Now its kind of grating. In Sh3 we have to literaly stuff compartments with crew to get anything done.

Second, interior textures could use some help still, central is good but other parts need help. U-boats were pretty spiffy, and Id like to see that. So greater detail in the texures of the equipment, pipes valves and even the bulkheads.

Third, the men sure are quiet. Ive been using ambiant sound mods for years now so maybe i just forgot what Ubi considers a good sound pallete.

Questions? Neil, do you get camera out of sectors and can you walk through solid objects?

Do the crew respond by voice or by text mostly?
Is the game as laggy as it looks what are your specs?

[Darkhat]

:timeout: I think about 3 people are hiding/sleeping in various areas, 1 man is on the toilet, 4 people are restocking supplies in various areas, 2 men are out of the camera view, and 5 people have been killed in battle.

So, aye sir(s), the men are there! :salute:

I think neals specs were are a core 2 duo 3 ghz and nvidia 9500 1 Gb or nvidia 260 512/1 gb and 4/6 gb ram. I read it here somewhere, but I don't remember exactly.

I don't think it looks laggy, rather a slow camera-viewing. Maybe u're not streaming good on youtube, that might the problem.

This Game look astonishing! :sunny:

[malkuth74]

Always the guy with the eye patch!

Did it look like there were 50+ men on the boat?

Here's my count:

1: You
3: Fwd Torpedo Room
3: crew quarters
1: soundman
1: radioman
7: control room
5: crew quarters
1: galley
3: engine room
4: aft rorp/elec engine room

4 on bridge?

33 Total!

About 20 men missing. Maybe they're in the head.

Please tell me your just saying this because your pointing out something and not complaining? Because if your complaining. Then ... Well never mind. Useless to argue I guess.

[Leif...]

A very impressive model with lots of details. I Like it. Well done.
But did you notice the guy who pretends he is reading a book, although he doesn't have one? I bet he is up to something no good. Well, I sure will keep an eye on him.

[walsh2509]

Its not just a question of looking good "eye candy" , what kind of performance can we expect with nearly half a crew missing or are the others packed away unseen until watch change over?



Surprise Air attack kills all up top , 5/6 ? crew down to 20odd can a 40+ plus crewed boat run with 20 odd crew with shifts at full tilt ?

I know when my crew were tired I would not get full performace from the engines or the same performance speed when loading torps if the crew were down men and or tired.


I would ask or Neal if you could ask the devs if there will be full 40+ crews

[Sailor Steve]

Overall it looks very good!:rock:

Yes, it could use a few more men (hopefully modable). Yes, it's quiet (but everything is shut down, and I use an ambient sound mod that keeps the footsteps and voices flowing, so I'm not too concerned). Except for missing pipes and things the dimensions look good to me.

I'm confused about the aft torpedo room though. It looked like there were two tubes in there. I don't know what it actually looks like, so I could easily be missing something.

My only complaints concern other things, so I won't repeat them here.

Overall I'd rate it an 8 out of 10.

I still dont get why understand why they forgot to model a proper wardroom. Its simply not there. I mean they went to see the real u-boat at laboe right? Then why do they make such crucial mistakes.
I agree that the upper bunk should not be there and the details could be better, and I agree that if they are truly concerned about accuracy that should be fixed. But I don't agree that it is anything like "crucial". It's eye candy, and nothing more. "Crucial" is if the AI still acts like it did in SH3, not if the LI's bunk is right.

I won't say again that this footage shows a pathetic game, I will please the ones who doesn't like to see this kind of statement, even if I might think so about the game
But you did say it, so saying you wouldn't say it makes your statement just a little untrue.

And no one minds that you say it; just when you say it in inappropriate places.

[Safe-Keeper]

The lack of men makes sense. Since the game isn't ready yet, the boat is obviously on a trial mission, with a skeleton crew:O:.

[GermanGS]

I think that one of the crew members is on drugs, stearing ak his hands like that:hmmm:

Or mabey he just likes looking at hands:doh:

Gotta keep an eye on that guy

[walsh2509]

The lack of men makes sense. Since the game isn't ready yet, the boat is obviously on a trial mission, with a skeleton crew:O:.




If only , I do hope so , but I can't see why the devs would not have all the crew on board even in the beta, it is for testing the game. I can't see them test a beta with a tad over half a crew, say all is well with the beta and they then put in the full crew and ship and get a performance hit! I would think they would want to get a full crewed boat in beta to see if there was a performance hit.. If fear the 20 odd on show is it .. again i hope Im wrong.

as for a slow down in performance ? as in to many crew on show .. The captain "you" are only in one place at a time so having a full crew spilt over all departments of the boat should be no problem.

[oscar19681]

I went onto Uboataces.com and for the 4 class of uboats in SH5 in the details/Specs of each it list the crews as 44 for each.

I counted 26 , if the boat was on the surface 5/6 on watch 31/32 still at least 12 bodies missing.

It no wonder I thought the boat looked very empty compared to what I seen in Das Boot the other week when it was on.

I hope this is because it was the beta but I doubt it , I hope Im wrong. We need the Full crew to give that packed claustrophobic feeling.

If what was in the video is the full crew, then for me the game has lost half of its appeal before its even been loaded onto my drive.


Specs near bottom of page
http://www.uboataces.com/uboat-type-vii.shtml

Indeed you are right. Some on this forum may call me a whiner but to bring about the realism men where confronted with on the u-boats should at least include the right number of crew members on the boat. I mean i love the crambed confined spaces seen in das boot.

[oscar19681]

Certainly a great step forward. The exact number of crew shown is not important.

Thanks, Neal. You should be the marketing director for those stupid Ubi suits. :up:

Uhm why would the crew count not be important? I mean in b-17 the mighty eight they had the correct number of crew? How would it look to have only 6 crew members in a b-17?

[brett25]

compare the SH5 interior to this mod by Flakmonkey (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=160385&page=4)


SH3 forever:salute:

[Decoman]

There was a crewman in the video that seemed to talk to another guy in the bunk just below him, except that bunk was empty. Maybe the dev's will fill in the bunks later on.

[walsh2509]

From my Uboataces Newsletter ...

First Impressions When you climb into a Type VIIC U-boat, the first impression you get is the maze of pipes, handwheels, and dials crammed from the ceiling to your ankles on the ground. There is very little wood, or plastic, everything is mostly steel - and as you’d expect, without any windows. The air is still and humid with very little lighting emitted by a handful of menthol bulbs suspended from the ceiling.
The inside is tight and cramped, with many sections wide enough for only one adult. So if you wanted to walk to the rear, and someone was on the same path coming forward, then you had to stand aside to let the other person pass.
The inside of the Type VIIC is sectionalized into ten compartments. From front to rear :-


Forward Torpedo Room & Crew Quarters
Officer’s Cabin
CO’s Cabin/Radio Room & Sound Room
Control Room
Conning Tower
Aft Living Quarters
Galley
Diesel Engine Room
Electric Motor Room
Aft Torpedo Room

In this chapter, you’ll explore the Control Room and Conning Tower



Inside the Control Room
The Control Room is in the center of the U-boat.



http://www.uboataces.com/news/control-room.jpg


Floor space is barely eight feet wide at its widest point. This room is filled with machineries, valves, gauges and controls encircling the entire room. All controls are within hands reach. So just look up above you, and you'll see iron pipes and hand-wheels just inches above your head. Look down, and there are more pipes and valves on the ground.
In the center of the room, lies the navigation periscope. The navigator’s table on the port side. Just aft of the periscope lies a ladder leading to the Conning Tower. All personnel leaving or entering the boat had to climb through two hatches – the conning tower hatch and the bridge hatch.
The Control Room is the only section of the boat protected by watertight pressure doors. Situated on both ends, this small pressure door was at knee height with a circular opening of about 3 feet in diameter. You climb in with your feet first, and then slide your body through it.
In the event of flooding, these doors could be sealed, providing the last refuge for the crew trapped in a doomed submarine.
Inside the Conning Tower Directly above the Control Room lies the Conning Tower. Even more cramped than the Control Room, access to this tiny room is through a small ladder in the center of the Control Room. Inside, it houses the attack periscope and the torpedo data computer (TDC).
During a submerged attack, the CO peered into the periscope, verbally relaying the target’s speed and bearing to the 1WO who was beside him. The 1WO inputted the coordinates into the TDC on the wall, which transmitted the torpedo targeting information to the torpedo room.
The order to launch was always relayed verbally. "Torpedo ein. Los!" (Tube one, fire!)
In your next chapter – Anatomy of the Inside of a Type VIIC... continued...
Get the full experience. Explore the Type VIIC U-Boat with over 600 photos, videos, schematics, and listen to what a U-boat sounds like...
Click here now for your Definitive Guide of the Type VIIC and walk step-by-step for an eye-opening inspection of this Atlantic predator! (http://www.uboataces.com/aff/jrox.php?id=1000_1_bid_5_issn02)

[oscar19681]

The lack of men makes sense. Since the game isn't ready yet, the boat is obviously on a trial mission, with a skeleton crew:O:.

I fear that the lack of men is not a preview thing but it will be there (or not be there) in the final version.

[oscar19681]

I think that one of the crew members is on drugs, stearing ak his hands like that:hmmm:

Or mabey he just likes looking at hands:doh:

Gotta keep an eye on that guy

Didnt you know? Its timothy leary father!

[COWBOY10]

From my Uboataces Newsletter ...


Get the full experience. Explore the Type VIIC U-Boat with over 600 photos, videos, schematics, and listen to what a U-boat sounds like...
Click here now for your Definitive Guide of the Type VIIC and walk step-by-step for an eye-opening inspection of this Atlantic predator! (http://www.uboataces.com/aff/jrox.php?id=1000_1_bid_5_issn02)

Thanks for posting although not sure my wife will be impressed, Took one look and before I know it the dvd was ordered :) Cant wait for it to turn up. :)

[jazman]

Please tell me your just saying this because your pointing out something and not complaining? Because if your complaining. Then ... Well never mind. Useless to argue I guess.

Admit it--you just had to whine about something! :03:

[IanC]

Let's remember that in real life, we wouldn't go around counting crew members. Would the captain even notice 10 missing crew members if he wasn't looking for it? :hmmm:

[Schultz]

Thanks Neal looks very good, it makes me even more to buy the game.

[Platapus]

To be honest, I really could not care less whether the full complement of the crew are rendered in 3d animations. As long as the simulator acts as if there is a full complement that is enough for me.

I only want the crew members that I can interact with rendered. Yes, we all know how crowded U-boats were. Unless the number of crew affects how I can walk through the sub, I am not interested in just seeing 50 bodies that I can magically walk through.

Now if the simulator were to take into account the crew as physicals to movement that would be interesting. But if not, then non-interactive bodies are just eye candy. It appears that SH5 gives a sampling of bodies (people in their racks, people standing in the companionways. This is really good enough for me (I can, of course, only speak about my opinions).

I am beginning to think that there are some people here who are just looking for any excuse to complain about SH5.

Believe me, I have plenty that I don't like about SH5, but I don't need to hunt for new stuff to bitch about.

Honestly, is the number of crew members that are rendered in 3d graphics really the worst thing about SH5? If that is the worst, then I would posit that SH5 is the best game ever made.

I really think there is a small contingent of this forum that is nit-picking now. :nope:

I am still on the fence about whether I am going to buy it or not (Leaning ever so slightly toward buying it. But I can honestly tell you that the number of rendered crew members is not even in my decision tree on this.

[RickC Sniper]

I really think there is a small contingent of this forum that is nit-picking now. :nope:

I am still on the fence about whether I am going to buy it or not (Leaning ever so slightly toward buying it. But I can honestly tell you that the number of rendered crew members is not even in my decision tree on this.


+1

I Agree.

[Joe Bob]

I would like to think that its due to a certain portion of my crew have learned to make themselves scarce during my walk throughs due to my frequent use of the "If you have time to lean, you have time to clean" option in the orders menu. Obviously some have not gotten the word.:stare:

[LiveGoat]

Yep, SH3 still looks more authentic. SH5 is pretty but it feels more like a fantasy U-boat. But with a little detail work from the modders...

And yeah, I can't stand the wait for FM's diesel room. Oh well must be patient and wait for the honeymoon. :03:

compare the SH5 interior to this mod by Flakmonkey (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=160385&page=4)


SH3 forever:salute:

[cherbert]

Realistic or not I personally would like to see it a little bit darker to add to the atmosphere.

It might seem a bit bare - but I am excited at what the modders are gonna be able to do with the whole boat! Maybe if we are lucky the final version might even be a bit more packed out with fruit & veg and meat.!?

[kapitan_zur_see]

compare the SH5 interior to this mod by Flakmonkey (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=160385&page=4)


SH3 forever:salute:

I wouldn't say "SH3 forever" because... wait for this guy to start working on SH5 :03:
Now that will rock!!! :rock:
Yes, some modders here do are way more talented than lots of devs from the professionnal market...
Those renders looks ten times better than SH5 and they ARE achievable with SH5 rendering engine!
Wait till we find a way to add more crew, improve and add atmospheric sounds and etc.

You'll get a cranked and crowded feeling when we add all those pipes and valves missing that makes the interior so empty now. Crewmen had been added in the past for SH4 so I bet we'll find a way for SH5, even if they feel a little more static compared to the others. Also, there's a lot to do to regarding textures improvement.

Frankly, as it is and as it will be in the release copy, there will be lots of work needed from modders but, it is some very promising modding playground at last!

[oscar19681]

Let's remember that in real life, we wouldn't go around counting crew members. Would the captain even notice 10 missing crew members if he wasn't looking for it? :hmmm:

Well i do think so when the **** hits the fan because then every man counts

[Kretschmer the IV]

:D

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/5641/screeniesh5.png (http://img694.imageshack.us/i/screeniesh5.png/)

[longam]

Every station is manned so just close the curtains on the bunks and we'll say there off duty and asleep. Problem solved. :D

[flakmonkey]

well if you really must compare the two: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/857101043/m/8201090438

Although i think shV looks much better in certain respects i do miss the cosy feel of sh3s interiors. But i think id swap cosy for full animated crew and a proper first person view anytime.

[LukeFF]

well it´s not a problem , if the game engine can support it, a 1944-45 campaign could be done

If radar isn't installed on the boat, I don't want to see the controls for it in the interior. It's this way for the U-boats in both SH3 and SH4. Why change a good thing now?

[JScones]

To be honest, I really could not care less whether the full complement of the crew are rendered in 3d animations. As long as the simulator acts as if there is a full complement that is enough for me.
Well, that's the thing. The U-boat should have a crew of around 45 or so. There's about 30 rendered.

Now, apparently, according at least to one preview, we need to tap our crew on the bum every now and then to keep up their morale. So what about the 15 crew that we can't interact with?

This is an example, but for me, if I am playing a crew management simulation, then I want to be able to influence my entire crew, otherwise, what is the point? Might just as well leave all crew interactions to the Chief...

And I don't consider this nitpicking - noticing the railings at a lean of 47 degrees instead of 45 is nitpicking - but having 30 crew in a game thats main selling points are:

The U-Boat is Now a “Living Space”:For the first time walk through highly detailed submarines in FPS view and manage the submarine crew.
Higher Realism: Exact reproduction of war machine models and historical background.Makes it a fair target as, IMHO, it fails both.

[mookiemookie]

Well, that's the thing. The U-boat should have a crew of around 45 or so. There's about 30 rendered.

Now, apparently, according at least to one preview, we need to tap our crew on the bum every now and then to keep up their morale. So what about the 15 crew that we can't interact with?

This is an example, but for me, if I am playing a crew management simulation, then I want to be able to influence my entire crew, otherwise, what is the point? Might just as well leave all crew interactions to the Chief...

And I don't consider this nitpicking - noticing the railings at a lean of 47 degrees instead of 45 is nitpicking - but having 30 crew in a game thats main selling points are:

Makes it a fair target as, IMHO, it fails both.

Agreed 100%. This also goes back to the 3 men on bridge watch. Why only model 3 when SOP was to have 4 or 5?

[frau kaleun]

I would like to think that its due to a certain portion of my crew have learned to make themselves scarce during my walk throughs due to my frequent use of the "If you have time to lean, you have time to clean" option in the orders menu. Obviously some have not gotten the word.:stare:

Heh. Reminds me of this:

http://graphjam.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/funny-graphs-military-job.jpg

[Schultzy]

Nice walkthrough, thanks Neal, but now I have a few questions/observations.

First observation: Why are beards non clickable?? :o
http://i48.tinypic.com/xf9jz6.jpg

On a U-Boat that's been at sea a while, it's going to make talking to our crew tough. ;)

oh, and after you selected silent running, what was the strange 'wrong answer on a quiz show' buzzer sound effect?

And finally yep, I too spotted Kimi Raikkonen is on board; good to know he's got work now that he's not driving for Ferrari. :cool:

:arrgh!:

[longam]

http://www.longam.net/sh4/sub/image5.jpg
http://www.longam.net/sh4/sub/image4.jpg
http://www.longam.net/sh4/sub/image7.jpg
http://www.longam.net/sh4/sub/image9.jpg
http://www.longam.net/sh4/sub/image11.jpg
http://www.longam.net/sh4/sub/image13.jpg
http://www.longam.net/sh4/sub/image15.jpg
http://www.longam.net/sh4/sub/image17.jpg
http://www.longam.net/sh4/sub/image19.jpg
http://www.longam.net/sh4/sub/image21.jpg
http://www.longam.net/sh4/sub/image23.jpg
http://www.longam.net/sh4/sub/image25.jpg
http://www.longam.net/sh4/sub/image27.jpg

[JScones]

http://www.longam.net/sh4/sub/image21.jpg

This one got me. Now this is perhaps nitpicking, but I thought it odd that the Kaleun could walk straight through here without the LI moving.

[Nordmann]

compare the SH5 interior to this mod by Flakmonkey (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=160385&page=4)


SH3 forever:salute:

*Jaw drops in astonishment* Bloody hell, that looks real!

[Onkel Neal]

Neal, thanks for the video. I am sure you are aware how important these things are to us and I appreciate you take the time to make them.

One serious question: Did you have any problems going through any of the hatches? Meaning that did you have to take special care to line "yourself" up with the hatch?


Did you experience any of this in SH5? Or when you got close to a hatch did the game sorta "auto align" your character to make passing through the hatches smooth and quick?

You're very welcome. Yes, the interior hatches are easy, just W right at them and you go through. At first it took me a bit of practice to climb the ladders, but it's not too tricky.



A couple of things concern me: Not enough crew in the torpedo rooms, I can live with the other compartments being lightly populated but it takes more than a couple of guys to load a eel. If it can be uped to six better eight, even if all they do is mirror the movements of the two loaders now it would be much better. Now its kind of grating. In Sh3 we have to literaly stuff compartments with crew to get anything done.

Third, the men sure are quiet. Ive been using ambiant sound mods for years now so maybe i just forgot what Ubi considers a good sound pallete.

Questions? Neil, do you get camera out of sectors and can you walk through solid objects?

Do the crew respond by voice or by text mostly?
Is the game as laggy as it looks what are your specs?

Yes, I agree, the fwd torpedo room with only two guys looks a bit odd, especially with them always standing at attention. Maybe in the final version they will keep busy or at least sit around. I have no idea why the boat only has 28 men, maybe it's a performance issue... I guess we will see when the modders add 15 guys and no one can run the program...

The crew responses were not finished, so I have no quality answer for that.

My specs are

Dell XPS 630Intel Core2 E8400 (6MB,3.0 GHz, 1333FSB)
Memory 4GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz - 4 DIMMs
Video Card SLi, Dual nVidia GeForce 9800GT 512MB
Hard Drive500GB - 7200RPM, SATA 3.0Gb/s, 16MB Cache
WinXP

It is a little laggy, but I will wait and see how the retail version works, maybe there is a lot of optimization stuff to finish, I don't know.


To be honest, I really could not care less whether the full complement of the crew are rendered in 3d animations. As long as the simulator acts as if there is a full complement that is enough for me.

I only want the crew members that I can interact with rendered. Yes, we all know how crowded U-boats were. Unless the number of crew affects how I can walk through the sub, I am not interested in just seeing 50 bodies that I can magically walk through.

Now if the simulator were to take into account the crew as physicals to movement that would be interesting. But if not, then non-interactive bodies are just eye candy. It appears that SH5 gives a sampling of bodies (people in their racks, people standing in the companionways. This is really good enough for me (I can, of course, only speak about my opinions).

I am beginning to think that there are some people here who are just looking for any excuse to complain about SH5.

Believe me, I have plenty that I don't like about SH5, but I don't need to hunt for new stuff to bitch about.

Honestly, is the number of crew members that are rendered in 3d graphics really the worst thing about SH5? If that is the worst, then I would posit that SH5 is the best game ever made.

I really think there is a small contingent of this forum that is nit-picking now. :nope:



This has been a pattern with games for as long as I can remember. I cannot understand it, but post a screenshot and someone will find something wrong with it. Of course, sometimes there are certainly reasonable and legit bugs, glitches, or omissions that can be established as needing attention. But it's almost like a contest--who can find the most inconspicous glitch. :-? If you have a sub in a game, where's the crew? If there is a rendered crew, then they are in the wrong place, or there's not the proper number, or they are standing too stiff. They crew is correct, then why don't they have beards? I guess we all have different expectations.




Certainly a great step forward. The exact number of crew shown is not important.

Thanks, Neal. You should be the marketing director for those stupid Ubi suits. :up:

Don't I wish. I'm sure they will move on to other projects and in a year won't remember zip about SH. For us, though, this is important stuff.

[Frederf]

This one got me. Now this is perhaps nitpicking, but I thought it odd that the Kaleun could walk straight through here without the LI moving.

I suppose the LI could be programmed to play a "move out of the way" animation when the player is in close proximity but it would be tricky. If you wanted to talk to him he might dive out of the way as if you're trying to get by and it might look weird. I thought the "clip through crew" thing was just to leave the grown men rubbing past each other in narrow confines up to your vivid imagination.

[brett25]

wouldn't say "SH3 forever" because... wait for this guy to start working on SH5

yes, very true....as long as SH5 gameplay makes the effort worthwhile, other wise maybe we can get the SH5 full boat into SH3?

[capthelm]

is there rig for red lighting?

hope this is added for night ops.

[oscar19681]

yes, very true....as long as SH5 gameplay makes the effort worthwhile, other wise maybe we can get the SH5 full boat into SH3?

Sh-3 is outdated (as much as i have loved it) if you ask me. Have it the other way around.

[Kretschmer the IV]

Haven't seen the 2 toilets...? No modeled toilets on board? :cry:

[Dietger]

Thanks Neal !

Nice, it will be something new.
But, doesent look the crew dwarfed? compaired to the interior of the boat?
:stare:


Dietger

[Sky999]

This one got me. Now this is perhaps nitpicking, but I thought it odd that the Kaleun could walk straight through here without the LI moving.


I noticed that too, I hope they fix that for the final version otherwise it's going to get really annoying.

[mookiemookie]

Haven't seen the 2 toilets...? No modeled toilets on board? :cry:

Will the toilet be accessible too? It's not really important for gameplay, but it would be funny.

Nope, you have to use your own

Dev Q&A

[oscar19681]

I noticed that too, I hope they fix that for the final version otherwise it's going to get really annoying.

I thought i read in a preview that the crew steps aside when you want to go through

[tater]

What use is the interior?

If it's for atmosphere, great, but how often will you wander around after the novelty wears off? If you are walking around just to look, then the only thing to do is to nitpick, right? There is no NEED to use the interior, so looking and nitpicking is all you can do.

Regarding the crew count, I didn't realize when I saw the movie it was 30, that's actually pretty darn good, I assumed it was lower cause it didn't look crowded. Being spot on there isn't critical if it's in the ballpark (the skipper is only one place at a time, and you can assume the missing guys are where he is not ;) )

Still, IMO, every single AI guy is a chance to increase or decrease immersion. If they don;t act like people, they decrease it, IMO, particularly in a more casual setting. In the control room, you expect them to be quiet, and hanging on your every word as skipper. IN the rest of the boat it's harder, actually.

[Soviet_Warlord]

I thought i read in a preview that the crew steps aside when you want to go through

Yeah let's hope that the feature that was not implemented yet in Neil's build of SH5. Clipping through crew dramatically undermines the immersion of a 3D interior.

[Parkera]

I thought i read in a preview that the crew steps aside when you want to go through

Even in the Preview video that UBI put out there and on their SH5 site It clearly shows crew stepping aside and the interiors look diff as well.

[Nordmann]

Even in the Preview video that UBI put out there and on their SH5 site It clearly shows crew stepping aside and the interiors look diff as well.

Probably rendered, not actual in-game footage. They like to hype their games in this way, hoodwinking unsuspecting buyers into believing they are getting what the video shows, when in fact they are not.

[ThePinkSubmarine]

It's looking good! Thanks for the video Neal! I'm glad you posted it...because there was absolutely no way that I was going to get all of the answers correct!

Like a lot of you -- I'd like to see the WHOLE crew modeled, because the U-Boat is looking a little too roomy!

I just purchased a new rig with a 3.0 ghz Quad-Core, so there's no reason that my rig couldn't handle a full compliment (or so I think)!

[derblaueClaus]

Should be no problem, although it does not depend so much on the CPU but more on GPU and RAM.

[Tarnsman]

You can only be in one compartment at a time, so why cant you have about a half dozen in the Torpedo room? You have about that in Central. Im sorry 3 guys loading a torp is a bit daft. Why bother? If we can have 5 guys on the bridge, 5 or 6 in Central in a game released years and years ago, why not a dozen in the froward torpedo room. They can vanish in a puff of smoke as soon as I turn my back. But when I go forward and find two men and a PO loading an eel (not to mention going to the trouble of wiring it up) while Ive got guys barfing in their bunks, yeah Im going to notice.

I want more crew and all the "eye candy" because once Silent Hunter went 3d they raised the stakes -- not us.

Despite my tone I am part of the loyal opposition, I totally support the franchise and the game, but dont start something -- like an full uboat with crew and then be all half arsed about it.

[Kretschmer the IV]

Dev Q&A

I know this Q&A. I did not want to use the toilet, would be nice to see it modelled with a small glassy windows.

[SeaStorm]

You can only be in one compartment at a time, so why cant you have about a half dozen in the Torpedo room? You have about that in Central. Im sorry 3 guys loading a torp is a bit daft. Why bother? If we can have 5 guys on the bridge, 5 or 6 in Central in a game released years and years ago, why not a dozen in the froward torpedo room. They can vanish in a puff of smoke as soon as I turn my back. But when I go forward and find two men and a PO loading an eel (not to mention going to the trouble of wiring it up) while Ive got guys barfing in their bunks, yeah Im going to notice.

I want more crew and all the "eye candy" because once Silent Hunter went 3d they raised the stakes -- not us.

Despite my tone I am part of the loyal opposition, I totally support the franchise and the game, but dont start something -- like an full uboat with crew and then be all half arsed about it.

agreed.

[JU_88]

You can only be in one compartment at a time, so why cant you have about a half dozen in the Torpedo room? You have about that in Central. Im sorry 3 guys loading a torp is a bit daft. Why bother? If we can have 5 guys on the bridge, 5 or 6 in Central in a game released years and years ago, why not a dozen in the froward torpedo room. They can vanish in a puff of smoke as soon as I turn my back. But when I go forward and find two men and a PO loading an eel (not to mention going to the trouble of wiring it up) while Ive got guys barfing in their bunks, yeah Im going to notice.

I want more crew and all the "eye candy" because once Silent Hunter went 3d they raised the stakes -- not us.

Despite my tone I am part of the loyal opposition, I totally support the franchise and the game, but dont start something -- like an full uboat with crew and then be all half arsed about it.

Totally disagree.

Well... I do agree that I dont think the sparse population of sub has ANYTHING to do with limitations in the graphics/fps department I dont think another 20 men would cause much of an fps hit at all.
But i dont agree there is anything half arsed about it!

I bet its more to do with other logistical problems such as pathfinding and postioning.
remember that 50 guys in a type VII was very cramped, in game terms it must be a head ache trying to find places for all of the AI crew and ensuring they dont get in each others way, like get stuck in doorways or try to duplicate the same activities/ animation cycles at the same place at the same time.

Some of you talk as if its a really simple thing to dynamically code and animate 50 3d guys in a cramped tube without these kind of problems - but it aint.
Lets say you get your 50 crewmates and we start seeing them get stuck or walk though each other, are you going to be happy with that or are you going scream blue murder? Im betting on the latter....

Im sure the dev team can count, so if they gave us less crew members, they did it for a good reason.

[SeaStorm]

I dont think the sparse population of sub has ANYTHING to do with limitations in the graphics/fps department I dont think another 20 men would cause much of an fps hit at all.

I bet its more to do with other logistical problems such pathfinding postioning.
remember that 50 guys in a type VII was very cramped, in game terms it must be a head ache trying to find places for all of the AI crew and ensuring they dont get in each others way, like get stuck in doorways or try to duplicate the same activities/ animation cycles at the same place at the same time.

Some of you talk as if its a really simple thing to dynamically code and animate 50 3d guys in a cramped tube without these kind of problems, well geuss what - it probably aint.
Lets say you get your 50 crewmates and we start seeing them get stuck or walk though each other, are you going to be happy with that or are you going scream blue murder? Im betting on the latter....

Im sure the dev team can count, so if they gave us less crew members, they did it for a good reason.

On the programmer's side, it's true that's no easy task to code a bunch of AI in a way they behave realistically in a sub.
Like it was said earlier, with the budget and the technology this company has, it's possible to fix this.
I don't bash the dev team. I worked in a game production environment, and i know what it's like. --- The problem is time and money. ---

--- They would need 3 years to develop a game that meet our expectations.

If it's not fixed by the Gold version, then it will be sooner or later with a patch, if not, then modded.

[SteamWake]

--- They would need 3 years to develop a game that meet our expectations.

No.. sorry .. from what I've observed speaking in general that goal is un-attainable. :haha:

[Tarnsman]

JU-88, I respectfully disagree with your disagreement.
Although I agree that they Dev team is limited by resources.

However, crew have limited tasks on board eg: Central, they stand watch, generally in place. torpedo room; load torps ( which is way cool and like I pointed out wiring and fusing the eels is above and beyond the call of duty). But they are not expected to wander around in there doing CANCAN dances and crimes against nature, just have a couple of more guys heaving the eels into the tubes. Otherwise they can be in their bunks, standing around or barfing (which they seem to do very well ).

I can see it now, one guy on either side of the two we have in Neal's video and one at the back. Maybe have the W.O pointing to the tube they are loading. There 3 extra crew and one extra animation by the existing W.O. 5 guys loading looks alot more realistic than two. 2 or 3 guys leaning against the opposite bulkhead (which they do very well) and now we got a forward torpedo crew! Probabaly less than real life but looking far more realistic than 3 men in an otherwise empty room, that is supposed to be the business end of the boat.

Now maybe this will be in the final relese or can be added in the future. Im not griping about how the chairs are arrainged. But really,in SH3 they have 3 men manning the deck gun and 5 men on the bridge and in the new game have even added the helmsman! Once you raise standards you kind of have to follow through or else it looks like a $50,000 car with no cup holder and you call it a feature. Sorry but thats kinda lame. Remember you dont have to model 50 guys at once. Just about a half dozen or so at one time.

But. It aint no big thing.
Well OK two guys loading a 2 ton torpedo does bother me a bit :damn:

[gimpy117]

:up:i like it

you notice the guy in the bunk? is he banging his head against the railing? looks like the poor kid has cracked :o

[Bilge_Rat]

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/9813/conningtower001.jpg



Limiting the number of men maybe more of a game decision than a question of resources. For example, conning tower of a U.S. fleet boat with 5 men courtesy of RFB 2.0. The stock game has 3. Even though it is more realistic, some players may find this a bit claustrophobic.

[Iron Budokan]

No.. sorry .. from what I've observed speaking in general that goal is un-attainable. :haha:

Lol, I suspect you are correct. :D

[Tarnsman]

Bilge Rat. now thats what Im talking about! Its supposed to be claustrophobic -- Its a U-Boat. A type VII at that. If you need wide open spaces go join ArmA2 .