Chill Winston! (Neal vs OSP - youtube vid!) [Archive]

TH0R

02-18-10, 07:19 AM

The impression I'm getting here, is that Neal does not have a copy with the OSP enabled.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1271633&postcount=71

My prayers are with this statement. But, you know how they say, assumption is the mother of all... :D

Nordmann

02-18-10, 07:31 AM

Indeed, it's possible that the two games have differing implementations, but then that raises the question as to why? Surely, if you're going down the OSP road, then you use the same system across all of your products.

MercurySeven

02-18-10, 07:32 AM

Over one minute of diconnected gameplay. Interesting. :hmmm:

This could allow for small bumps in the connection. However, the queston remains whether you have some sort of allowed timeframe in which you have to reconnect or whether Neal just happened to disconnect between two connection-checks by chance.

In the first case this would allow for smaller hickups in the internet connection. :yeah: The second case would not, as it would be possible to lose connection just before the next check with the UBI servers is due, which could stop your game. :nope:

Sadly I don't see UBI revealing such information anytime soon as they might consider it confidential ...

piri_reis

02-18-10, 07:38 AM

Sadly I don't see UBI revealing such information anytime soon as they might consider it confidential ...

That's funny, anybody can run a packet sniffer, to check when and where the application connects, what kind of data it sends (almost definetly encrypted), and how long the application is set to ignore a disconnection.
This kind of information is not crucial for their OSP protection. It's how they implemented the authentication/encryption and the relationship these modules have with the game. Can the crackers put a Jump Routine in the application where it checks for online connection/ubi server permission??

That's all the fight, the minute this is discovered a crack will be out.
Ubi is just stupid to hold information that will help us customers to decide to buy it or not, because that little information is no problem for somebody educated enough to discover..

Mud

02-18-10, 07:44 AM

Neal plays a preview version and I'm pretty sure this is not the DRM/OSP what we get in the final version.
I'll bite my tongue if I'm wrong.

Mud

urfisch

02-18-10, 07:46 AM

one things for sure: the game has nice graphics...

;)

MercurySeven

02-18-10, 07:49 AM

I did some information security throughout my studies so I know what you're on about. However, some people still beleive that secrecy of the used algorithm adds significantly to the security of the overall outcome, and at UBI I'm pretty sure that the decision whether to release such information or not is not made by someone who designed and understands the security measures but by someone who wears a suit, a tie, goes to meetings and takes pleasure in the repeated confirmation that "The new DRM system is gonna be reeeeeeealy safe, Sir!" ;)

Additionally: I know that I can get that information with a packet sniffer. That would be among the first things I'd run if I should get my hands on a legit copy of SH5 by some miraculous way that does not involve me handing over money. However, I consider this information relevant for making a decision whether to buy the thing or not. So unless someone does this network analysis for me I don't see how I should get this info. ;)

Brag

02-18-10, 07:52 AM

Good and informative vid. Was it PC Gamer who also expressed doubts about their DRM version? They definetely had a different version than Neal.

The Enigma

02-18-10, 08:05 AM

It is obvious that the preview will not have the final version of OSP build in.

UBI will do everything to prevent OSP from being broken before release date of the final game.

Nordmann

02-18-10, 08:44 AM

one things for sure: the game has nice graphics...

;)

Heh. As we all know, graphics make the game! Never mind that the rest of it is incomplete or broken, at least we can admire the scenery while the game is OSP paused.

evan82

02-18-10, 08:54 AM

Maybe some special profit we have here? 1-4 minutes disconected - ok, 4 and more - Game Over!

skwasjer

02-18-10, 03:48 PM

I'm not surprised at all the preview didn't crap out.

It makes sense the game only polls at intervals. Not even Ubi in their right mind would make a system that requires a permanent connection as such that it keeps a constant TCP-port open. That's simply not viable as far as server resources go, and chances of the server dropping the connection are much higher (+ it is more difficult to balance load). Instead, it probably is just a https-request from the client every few minutes containing a handshake request/response pattern, which - when succeeds - allows you to continue to play. And when not - well, BOOM!

If anything I believe a) Neal was lucky :cool: or b) Ubi's polling system is timed at 5 minutes+ (or will retry a couple of times before bombing out) or c) the preview will not dump you at all (as opposed to the retail).

Gunnodayak

02-18-10, 03:52 PM

Heh. As we all know, graphics make the game! Never mind that the rest of it is incomplete or broken, at least we can admire the scenery while the game is OSP paused.
With all due respect, I don't know that "graphics make the game!" And I really don't want to "know" that.

Onkel Neal

02-18-10, 04:23 PM

Heretic

02-18-10, 04:26 PM

What did it do after that, Neal? Pause or kick you out?

The Enigma

02-18-10, 04:26 PM

@Neal:
When this happens, do you need to login again, our does it proceed from where it stopped?

Onkel Neal

02-18-10, 05:17 PM

To be honest, I only tried it once and then the game crashed. I'm pretty sure that's not part of the design. So I will test it again with the review copy. If DRM is a concern for anyone, as with the quality of the game, and your "hard-earned $50"© is crucial for your survival as a human being, they should definitely wait for reviews.

The Enigma

02-18-10, 05:27 PM

DRM/OSP is certainly very important to me.
However to be able to play a game is not crucial to my survival LOL.

So let's wait and see what a review will learn..

longam

02-18-10, 06:17 PM

, and your "hard-earned $50"© is crucial for your survival as a human being, they should definitely wait for reviews.

Har :haha:

oscar19681

02-18-10, 06:43 PM

While playing the second mission in the campaign, I decided to disconnect my cable again and leave it disconnected. It took around 6 or 7 minutes but it finally called me out :)
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=165&pictureid=1275

Did the preview version come with a campaing as well? Uhm wait , why am i asking a question that has allready been awnsered. Doh!

FIREWALL

02-18-10, 07:00 PM

Nice vid Neal. :salute:

I don't think it's the 50 bucks that are crucial to anyones survival.

It's being able to play it anytime, anyplace and anywhere includeing in flight to a SubSim meet. :DL

Sailor Steve

02-18-10, 07:05 PM

With all due respect, I don't know that "graphics make the game!" And I really don't want to "know" that.
It was sarcasm. It doesn't always translate well. He was actually saying the opposite of what he really meant, and over-exaggerating the meaning as well, especially when he said "Never mind that the rest of it is incomplete or broken..."

SteamWake

02-18-10, 09:56 PM

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh312/UlteriorModem/Young20Frankenstein_jpg.jpg

jwilliams

02-18-10, 10:48 PM

My real concern with OSP is what happens if you get disconnected and you haven't saved for awhile?

Yeah having to be connected isnt ideal but i could live with OSP if progress since last manual save isnt lost and it behaves as Neals copy does (no pause if connection is lost for a short time).

What happens if you haven't saved for 2hrs or more? Can you save your game on the disconnect screen or do you lose everything you've done since last save?

Save more often you say....:hmmm:
But what if SH5 has same bugs as 3, Cant save while submerged!!, Cant save within 50km of a port etc. (I've spent over 6 hours submerged while being depth charged in shallow water with SH3 before i could surface to save (I would be seriously pi**ed if i got disconnected and lost the last 6hrs of progress)).:wah:

Losing such a large amount of progress (time) would IMO be a game breaker!!!

They will release a patch to fix save bug you say..... :hmmm:
They didnt fix SH3 save bugs, what makes you think they'll fix SH5?

This game was a def buy on release for me, but with OSP im going to have to wait til i know that my progress wont be lost if i get disconnected.

@ Neal :-
Please can you test this when you review SH5. Me buying the game depends on the answer.
thx

Nordmann

02-19-10, 01:15 AM

It was sarcasm. It doesn't always translate well. He was actually saying the opposite of what he really meant, and over-exaggerating the meaning as well, especially when he said "Never mind that the rest of it is incomplete or broken..."

Yes, I rather thought it was obvious, especially with the last part. But never mind, too subtle for some it would seem.

Gunnodayak

02-19-10, 03:03 AM

Yes, I rather thought it was obvious, especially with the last part. But never mind, too subtle for some it would seem.
You're wrong, it's not subtle at all. But after I've read the first part, with the "graphics", I thought that you are, like others are here, an RPG fan, and I've stopped reading, I am already saturated of this kind of stuff. I've told you that just no tot give you the false impression that you are smarter or more poethic than you actually are.

Frederf

02-19-10, 04:56 AM

Call me cynical but I am guessing UBI didn't put the full OSP DRM into the preview copies to try to misinform the public and make sure the initial wave of customers that buy the game don't have fair warning as the full reviews haven't been made.

Nordmann

02-19-10, 04:58 AM

You're wrong, it's not subtle at all. But after I've read the first part, with the "graphics", I thought that you are, like others are here, an RPG fan, and I've stopped reading, I am already saturated of this kind of stuff. I've told you that just no tot give you the false impression that you are smarter or more poethic than you actually are.

Again, sarcasm mate, sarcasm. Really, you should stop taking yourself so seriously. In any case, I'm intrigued as to what RPGs have to do with sub sims, perhaps you care to elaborate?

Gunnodayak

02-19-10, 05:40 AM

Again, sarcasm mate, sarcasm. Really, you should stop taking yourself so seriously. In any case, I'm intrigued as to what RPGs have to do with sub sims, perhaps you care to elaborate?
You were the first who was being sarcastic, saying that your affirmation may have been some subtle for some, my only fault being that I've stopped reading the whole post. And I have already taken the responsibility for that.
Anyway, maybe we shouldn't argue one with each other, we both seem to belong to the "whiners" faction.

java`s revenge

02-19-10, 05:52 AM

I don`t deal with your opions. Neal let me see enough to be satisfied.

Gunnodayak

02-19-10, 05:56 AM

I don`t deal with your opions. Neal let me see enough to be satisfied.
Please make another post, right about now your number of posts is 666.:) Otherwise, I may think of you and your opinions in a distorted way.

java`s revenge

02-19-10, 06:13 AM

Wow, what a reaction. I feel this as an attack.

I don`t let me be intimidated.

Gunnodayak

02-19-10, 06:16 AM

Wow, what a reaction. I feel this as an attack.

I don`t let me be intimidated.

It's not an attack, it was just a joke, when I attack, I am a little more aggressive.

java`s revenge

02-19-10, 06:23 AM

Ok friend, i can live with that.:D

I thought your meaning was different.

I am open for jokes :up:

Onkel Neal

02-19-10, 06:42 AM

This came to me from GameStar (http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1316312900728&ref=mf), not sure what he's saying, I think it's something about Onkel Neal showed his game would continue after a disconnect of many seconds, proving his superioirity, send him flowers, etc.. but it appears for him, the game went into cardiac arrest after about 10 seconds.

martes86

02-19-10, 07:07 AM

I can't quite make out a lot of the stuff the guy says, but I don't hear "Neal" (or any of its variations :D ) in the video. Unless of course, you were being ironic. :haha:

THE_MASK

02-19-10, 07:19 AM

I can't quite make out a lot of the stuff the guy says, but I don't hear "Neal" (or any of its variations :D ) in the video. Unless of course, you were being ironic. :haha:
I cannot understand this language but i did see in one the comments the word bullsh!t .

martes86

02-19-10, 07:24 AM

I cannot understand this language but i did see in one the comments the word bullsh!t .

Yeah, well, the obvious comments protesting DRM. But not from the video previewer, as far as I know. He speaks too fast.

Nordmann

02-19-10, 07:41 AM

You were the first who was being sarcastic, saying that your affirmation may have been some subtle for some, my only fault being that I've stopped reading the whole post. And I have already taken the responsibility for that.
Anyway, maybe we shouldn't argue one with each other, we both seem to belong to the "whiners" faction.

Fair enough, just try to read some of them in full, we're not all idiots...well...maybe some of us! Anyway, I'm not arguing with you mate, just a light hearted bit of fun.

Gunnodayak

02-19-10, 07:50 AM

Fair enough, just try to read some of them in full, we're not all idiots...well...maybe some of us! Anyway, I'm not arguing with you mate, just a light hearted bit of fun.
OK, I promise will read the whole post next time I will quote somebody, not just taking some words out of the context, like journalists do!:)