View Full Version : An Alternative?
Big companies, obligatory internet connections, pay per month, per minute per "play" (or in general pay pay pay), end of subsimming, end of PC gaming, pirates, hackers and even what constitutes "owning" a single player game....
What about an alternative? Open source PC subsim ?????:hmmm:
(Fire away!)
Open source PC subsim ?????
Sounds great. Let us know when you finish it.
Of course, we don't expect you to do it all yourself. You can get a bunch of people working on it in their free time. I'm sure you can manage 20+ people, all trying to reach their own goals, to get it perfectly right.
Get the idea yet? There's a reason that companies backed by lots of cash make games.
Not that I'm against the idea, I just don't think a group of volunteers could build it from scratch, and get the quality that people are looking for here.
Well the reality is that we technically dont 'own' our games and never have done.
when you buy software, you dont 'own it' you just own a licence to use it - nothing more.
HundertzehnGustav
02-17-10, 06:23 PM
Big companies, obligatory internet connections, pay per month, per minute per "play" (or in general pay pay pay), end of subsimming, end of PC gaming, pirates, hackers and even what constitutes "owing" a single player game....
What about an alternative? Open source PC subsim ?????:hmmm:
(Fire away!)
Women. a whole bunch of em. Nekkid.:o
:|\\
Greed will never stop and corp world will decide.
Nordmann
02-17-10, 06:30 PM
Big companies, obligatory internet connections, pay per month, per minute per "play" (or in general pay pay pay), end of subsimming, end of PC gaming, pirates, hackers and even what constitutes "owing" a single player game....
What about an alternative? Open source PC subsim ?????:hmmm:
(Fire away!)
The end is not upon is, there's still money to be made from us sub-simmers after all. All that rubbish about pirates being the death of PC gaming, well that's been touted since the early 2000s, and look, PC gaming is still here. As with governments, they will attempt to use scare tactics to achieve their aims, like the old "But without DRM, no one will make any more games!" line that I must have heard a thousand times. Yet there are developers who do not use DRM, and they have yet to go out of business!
There's a saying, never trust a politician, well the same can be said of game developers and publishers. Most of their claims are simply an attempt to gain acceptance of new policies/schemes, all you have to do is read their DRM Q&A, and you'll see what I'm talking about.
Some ideas:
The GWX team has already done a lot of work. Build on that?
Find a way to support the Danger from the Deep people.
Encourage Akella, they already have a surface engine, at least
It would be great to have a publisher where management has a passion for the genre.
Nordmann
02-17-10, 06:44 PM
Some ideas:
The GWX team has already done a lot of work. Build on that?
Find a way to support the Danger from the Deep people.
Encourage Akella, they already have a surface engine, at least
It would be great to have a publisher where management has a passion for the genre.
Agreed. When it comes to passion though, indie games are usually your best bet. It seems to me, that the passion for this series has died, either the devs are burned out, or Ubi is past caring (having so many other games).
The end is not upon is, there's still money to be made from us sub-simmers after all. All that rubbish about pirates being the death of PC gaming, well that's been touted since the early 2000s, and look, PC gaming is still here. As with governments, they will attempt to use scare tactics to achieve their aims, like the old "But without DRM, no one will make any more games!" line that I must have heard a thousand times. Yet there are developers who do not use DRM, and they have yet to go out of business!
There's a saying, never trust a politician, well the same can be said of game developers and publishers. Most of their claims are simply an attempt to gain acceptance of new policies/schemes, all you have to do is read their DRM Q&A, and you'll see what I'm talking about.
Yup I agree. Do it our way or it's all doom and gloom. I'm not buying it (pun intended).
Besides, I think they've been saying pirates would be the end of gaming since the early 80's if I remember correctly. :roll:
Heretic
02-17-10, 06:56 PM
My Lord, I have a cunning plan:
1. Win the lottery
2. Buy the Silent Hunter rights from Ubisoft
3. Hire the Silent Hunter team
It'll work. I know it will:yeah:
Nordmann
02-17-10, 06:59 PM
My Lord, I have a cunning plan:
1. Win the lottery
2. Buy the Silent Hunter rights from Ubisoft
3. Hire the Silent Hunter team
It'll work. I know it will:yeah:
If only, though it would need to be a very big win, and I have a feeling they wouldn't sell in any case.
Onkel Neal
02-17-10, 07:05 PM
Some ideas:
The GWX team has already done a lot of work. Build on that?
Find a way to support the Danger from the Deep people.
Encourage Akella, they already have a surface engine, at least
It would be great to have a publisher where management has a passion for the genre.
Akella made PT Boats. Did you buy PT Boats? That would encourage Akella.
Neal, Both PT bosts snd POTC are on my list. I'm working at getting a machine, originally meant for SH5. Once I get machine, will have to figure out a way of getting the games sent to Chile.
There is another Subsimmer in the country, but up north. We might bundle orders together.
Sailor Steve
02-17-10, 07:27 PM
My Lord, I have a cunning plan:
That plan is so cunning you could pin a tail on it and call it a fox!
Just wanted you to know the reference was noticed and appreciated.
AVGWarhawk
02-17-10, 07:29 PM
Can I ask a question? Lets take a look at SH4 for a moment. How many new faces in modding showed up for SH4? More than a handful...a lot more than a hand full. How many super mods were created by these new faces for SH4? I can think of 5 right off the bat. RFB, TMO, OM, RSRD and FOTRS. That is just five MAJOR mods created by new folks here at SS other than Ducimus who has been here since..well forever. Lets talk S3D Editor. Designed by who? Skwasjer! For? SH4! A new face that created a new tool that made modding obtainable by anyone wishing to load S3D Editor and changing a value or two. Then lets talk about Leovampire. This guy inspired so many to mod and enjoy SH4. Super nice guy. Did great work. Come on the scene here like gang busters. There are countless other new faces that modded files here and there. Discovered fixes. SH5 will draw just as many new faces to modding as SH4 or SH3 ever did. We are already seeing new members or long standing lurking members posting. It has already stirred the pot. I think too good effect. Already there is a modding post in the SH5 section for modding. The creative juices are warming up and new talent for modding will show as well. History shows this is the case when it come to SS and the SH series. To be sure, looking at SH5, there is a great starting point to make the game great. I really believe that. I think DRM will go bye bye before long. I think the graphics alone will draw many and inspire them to mod the game.
Bilge_Rat
02-17-10, 07:30 PM
open source wargaming:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUcIeiaIQrs&feature=related
THE_MASK
02-17-10, 07:30 PM
There is no alternative to a new subsim . SH5 is it .
AVGWarhawk
02-17-10, 07:42 PM
There is no alternative to a new subsim . SH5 is it .
In a nut shell...you are correct.
V.C. Sniper
02-17-10, 08:10 PM
i herd eagle dynamics liekz simz
Akula4745
02-17-10, 09:05 PM
Women. a whole bunch of em. Nekkid.
I concur completely!
frau kaleun
02-17-10, 09:07 PM
My Lord, I have a cunning plan:
1. Win the lottery
2. Buy the Silent Hunter rights from Ubisoft
3. Hire the Silent Hunter team
You forgot the all-important final two steps!
4. ???
5. Profit!
Heretic
02-17-10, 10:40 PM
You forgot the all-important final two steps!
4. ???
5. Profit!
That's what so cunning about my ever-so-cunning plan! It involves no profit whatsoever. That's the Achilles Heel of the PC Game industry. They're burdened with having to make a profit. Take that away and you can have the game of your dreams.
You just have to win the lottery....
If everyone here paid $100 up front to say Subsim, we might be able to hire our own devs to make a similar game, then Subsim would own the rights!!:D
kiwi_2005
02-18-10, 02:06 AM
If everyone here paid $100 up front to say Subsim, we might be able to hire our own devs to make a similar game, then Subsim would own the rights!!:D
Well damn me if im going to put in $100 I at the very least want to own part of those rights as well. I mean what if the game becomes a masterpiece sells 2 million copies. Only Neal would get the royalties! Can't have that call me a tight bast**d but i want a piece of the pie as well man! :O:
Gunnodayak
02-18-10, 03:38 AM
Well damn me if im going to put in $100 I at the very least want to own part of those rights as well. I mean what if the game becomes a masterpiece sells 2 million copies. Only Neal would get the royalties! Can't have that call me a tight bast**d but i want a piece of the pie as well man! :O:
Yes, paying 100 US Dollars or even 100 Euros per game, with an estimate sell of around 5000 (in worst case scenario) units would be enough to hire a team of 8 up to 10 developers, which will have two years time for making the best game in the genre. And maybe even make some profit, and a profit well earned, this time. I am not naive, I know that this won't happen, nobody will start up this project, but I am SURE the potential game will be close to perfection, or at least much better than any SH game from the series.
rascal101
02-18-10, 05:54 AM
PT Boats - Nice Graphics, sometimes - ridiculous game play - I wonder if we should encourage them! - Just kidding -
The premise of this post is absolutly correct but unlikly to happen - the thing is - if there are enough folks who disagree with the way things are going, and if they vote with their cold hard cash, or with-hold same then its possible to affect how things will be done
I'm voting in the way described above, unless I see or hear of something radical to change my mind - I prefer to buy games that I percieve as having good replay value -
From what I've seen this new SH5 will be great to look at and perhaps fun to play the first couple of times but I just dont see how the way its constructed will lend itself to ongoing - repeat play - we all saw the career diagram the other day - there's only so many times and permutaions -
Its mostly the DRM, thats the thing that needs to go - the rest is tollerable but I really cant accept the DRM
R
Akella made PT Boats. Did you buy PT Boats? That would encourage Akella.
urfisch
02-18-10, 05:58 AM
Some ideas:
The GWX team has already done a lot of work. Build on that?
Find a way to support the Danger from the Deep people.
Encourage Akella, they already have a surface engine, at least
It would be great to have a publisher where management has a passion for the genre.
yes, already thought about a cooperation with akella. the graphics are nice and a really good base for a subsim...
The Enigma
02-18-10, 07:01 AM
Its mostly the DRM, thats the thing that needs to go - the rest is tollerable but I really cant accept the DRM
I agree, SH5 seems OK to me, if there wasn't this online DRM, I would buy it asap.
Nordmann
02-18-10, 07:08 AM
I agree, SH5 seems OK to me, if there wasn't this online DRM, I would buy it asap.
Ditto. There are few niggles here and there, but nothing the modders can't straighten out in the long run. The DRM issue is practically the only reason I'm currently avoiding buying the game. Ubi really dropped the ball on this one.
Sailor Steve
02-18-10, 11:20 AM
Can How many new faces in modding showed up for SH4? More than a handful...a lot more than a hand full.
Funny, I said exactly the same thing about SH3. SH2 was bad on many levels, but the campaign was the only one that couldn't really be fixed. So many modders did so many great things.
SH3 came along, and none of those guys were anywhere to be seen, except Hitman. But a great many new faces showed up, and showed talent. All of the much-praised SH3 guys came along after SH2 was long gone.
And, as you said, again with SH4. Who knows what talent SH5 will inspire to show up? Well, I won't, at least not until "It" is gone.
Webster
02-18-10, 11:37 AM
I think i saw it in a movie.....
if you make it the modders will show up to mod it
urfisch
02-18-10, 12:25 PM
Funny, I said exactly the same thing about SH3. SH2 was bad on many levels, but the campaign was the only one that couldn't really be fixed. So many modders did so many great things.
SH3 came along, and none of those guys were anywhere to be seen, except Hitman. But a great many new faces showed up, and showed talent. All of the much-praised SH3 guys came along after SH2 was long gone.
And, as you said, again with SH4. Who knows what talent SH5 will inspire to show up? Well, I won't, at least not until "It" is gone.
i guess, many from sh3 will stay and mod sh5...
;)
The Enigma
02-18-10, 03:24 PM
SH3 came along, and none of those guys were anywhere to be seen, except Hitman. But a great many new faces showed up, and showed talent. All of the much-praised SH3 guys came along after SH2 was long gone.
And, as you said, again with SH4. Who knows what talent SH5 will inspire to show up? Well, I won't, at least not until "It" is gone.
Whenever there is need for modders I'm willing to participate in a new project.
I'm not sure if my scripting knowledge is sufficient, but that is up to be seen.
Also, if there would be open source/non profit spin off for a subsim, I wouldn't
find it to be a problem to pay/donate € 100,00 for such game (done that already in the past for other games)
AVGWarhawk
02-18-10, 04:26 PM
I think i saw it in a movie.....
if you make it the modders will show up to mod it
It is true Webster! What did you do with SH4? :hmmm: Ahhhhh...made some fixes for the vanilla game and to good affect I might add. The modders will come. :yep:
Like all creative people, modders are a special breed. They mod because they have to mod. :DL
Just give them something to tinker with . . .
Darkbluesky
02-19-10, 01:31 AM
Well the reality is that we technically dont 'own' our games and never have done.
when you buy software, you dont 'own it' you just own a licence to use it - nothing more.
If you are referring to the owner of the code, then agree. Ubi is the owner. But if you are referring to the copy of the game, nope.
When an individual or social group buys it, he owns a copy of the game with some limited rights (he can't or can, depending, rent it, he can't make reverse engineering, he can or can't redistribute, he can't re-publish as its own work, etc), but for the rest of it and its consequences you are the propietary of that copy.
Just as when you buy a book. You don't own the text neither the copyright of the edition, but you do own the book, hence all the consequences and even legal responsabilities, both good and bad, that derives from that fact.
But of course they can change that at pleasure, by for example converting it to a full online product. Which by the way, if they do, I'll give up with games completely. Thanks God I have many other interests in this life... About movies and books that doesn't worry me, that's different. But not for the games. That's where the danger is.
Nordmann
02-19-10, 01:36 AM
At least they can't tell me when and where I can read my books! If this OSP route becomes the norm, I may go back to reading more of them.
FIREWALL
02-19-10, 02:00 AM
As of todays latest delivery I have 40 Submarine, Flight and Racing sims bought over time.
All in original packageing, Manuals and the usual extras.
All with keycodes And receipts taped in the cases.
And no type of drm.
And I can legaly sell them on Ebay because there MINE.
I could even sell some of the collectables for MORE than I payed for them.
btw RoF will be # 41 if.... :yep:
I don't buy rental games.
msalama
02-19-10, 02:21 AM
Find a way to support the Danger from the Deep people.
:sign_yeah:
FIREWALL
02-19-10, 02:29 AM
:sign_yeah:
Have they made any progress ?
msalama
02-19-10, 02:38 AM
Have they made any progress ?
:yep:
AFAIK they're slowly but surely toiling away. Their website is rudimentary to say the least, but seems they're still hard at work.
http://dangerdeep.sourceforge.net/
I'd _SO_ love to see this project mature and give UBI a healthy kick in the pants!!! Would volunteer, too, but alas I lack both the time and the expertise needed...
JScones
02-19-10, 03:13 AM
Funny, I said exactly the same thing about SH3. SH2 was bad on many levels, but the campaign was the only one that couldn't really be fixed. So many modders did so many great things.
SH3 came along, and none of those guys were anywhere to be seen, except Hitman. But a great many new faces showed up, and showed talent. All of the much-praised SH3 guys came along after SH2 was long gone.
And, as you said, again with SH4. Who knows what talent SH5 will inspire to show up? Well, I won't, at least not until "It" is gone.
With each new release comes a changing of the guard. SH5 will be no different. Whilst I think that more existing SH3 modders will move to SH5 than moved to SH4, there'll certainly be many new modders...and that will only be a good thing; new modders mean new and fresh ideas, new perspectives, new skills and so on to add to the already creative mix.
FIREWALL
02-19-10, 03:19 AM
:yep:
AFAIK they're slowly but surely toiling away. Their website is rudimentary to say the least, but seems they're still hard at work.
http://dangerdeep.sourceforge.net/
I'd _SO_ love to see this project mature and give UBI a healthy kick in the pants!!! Would volunteer, too, but alas I lack both the time and the expertise needed...
I sure hope they succeed.
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